Community

This thread is for discussion of this week's Making Magic, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.

Are there going to be forums for any of the past articles? A certain "State of the Game" came and went under cover of offline forums and I think thats a topic that would lead to some pretty interesting discussion. I certainly had more than a couple of comments about it.

Aug 27, 2009 -- 6:46PM, Hacimen wrote:

Are there going to be forums for any of the past articles? A certain "State of the Game" came and went under cover of offline forums and I think thats a topic that would lead to some pretty interesting discussion. I certainly had more than a couple of comments about it.

I too wanted to ask exactly that. The 'state of magic' topic deserves a thread!

Aug 27, 2009 -- 6:46PM, Hacimen wrote:

Are there going to be forums for any of the past articles? A certain "State of the Game" came and went under cover of offline forums and I think thats a topic that would lead to some pretty interesting discussion. I certainly had more than a couple of comments about it.

Well, under the new forum software, you can create your own threads in the magicthegathering.com forum. So feel free!

Well that seems a dangerous thing to do and I am sure you just can't wait for all of our threads

However, it is handy now. If no one does this after I get out of work I will see if I have time to kickstart it.

Legendary Octopus!?

 

Electropotence!?

 

Zen seems like a wacky, wacky set. I LOVE IT.

 

 

"A cycle of cards that players have been begging us to print for years."

 

Guesses on what this could be?

I have to ask whether the following is correct or not:

 

- A card with the reminder text "The land continues to burn..."

^ Does this really mean REMINDER text, or does it really mean FLAVOR text?

Well, I enjoyed the Planechase stuff quite a bit and learned the usual (rather significant) amount of stuff from the article, but the ZEN spoiler stuff...

 

Now that's just cruel. I mean, now I'm going to be salivating until I learn whether or not my treasured Mirror of Fate is part of that 2-card combo. Somehow.

Aug 30, 2009 -- 9:20PM, Mtg_Brian wrote:

"A cycle of cards that players have been begging us to print for years."

Guesses on what this could be?

Enemy Fetchlands!?!?!?!?

seriously, what cycle could people be begging for if ithey don't already have something else to base this request on?  It doesn't say reprint plus this would work for the "back to basics" theme of zendikar since there aren't any shock or dual lands in standard.  Plus this would make up for extended losing the onslaught fetchlands.  If this is true, zendikar will sell as well a m10 if not better!!!!!!

 

that was totally my guess as well.

Would be amazing with landfall

 

Enemy fetchlands were the first (and so far only) thing I thought of too.  Here's hope that's what it is.  That would be especially awesome for eternal formats.

Page 2 Get. 

 

Sucks to here about a Planeswalker killing creature.  But, it's good to know that those of us who didn't collect all of the planeswalker might be able to hose those who did, ha!

Aug 30, 2009 -- 10:21PM, bruuil wrote:

Page 2 Get. 

 

Sucks to here about a Planeswalker killing creature.  But, it's good to know that those of us who didn't collect all of the planeswalker might be able to hose those who did, ha!

I'm not liking a PW killer either. I haven't made a deck that takes full advantage of PW abilities yet, but to me they seem a little weak in that they start out with so few loyalty and are so vulnerable to direct damage, at least the few times I have used them that has been the case. Now there is a card that sacrifises itself to kill a PW? It had better be something like "Tap: Sacrifice PW Killer and 3 other creatures you control, send target PW to the graveyard." at the very least.

Regarding the 2 card kill combo - Sanguine Bond, Twincast, Hive Mind, Traumatize and Might of Oaks all seem like plausible candidates. And if you're wondering about Might of Oaks, he says right there that there is a card capable of making a 14/1 token.

Also, the land burning thing, possibly delayed LD? I really think (hope) that LD is going to be prominent in this set. It's been ages since some quality LD has been printed, and it seems like a good idea in a set focused on lands.

Aug 30, 2009 -- 10:36PM, JanglesPrime wrote:

Aug 30, 2009 -- 10:21PM, bruuil wrote:

Page 2 Get. 

 

Sucks to here about a Planeswalker killing creature.  But, it's good to know that those of us who didn't collect all of the planeswalker might be able to hose those who did, ha!

I'm not liking a PW killer either. I haven't made a deck that takes full advantage of PW abilities yet, but to me they seem a little weak in that they start out with so few loyalty and are so vulnerable to direct damage, at least the few times I have used them that has been the case. Now there is a card that sacrifises itself to kill a PW? It had better be something like "Tap: Sacrifice PW Killer and 3 other creatures you control, send target PW to the graveyard." at the very least.

Now that's an interesting thing to hear someone say (virtually speaking of course). Normally I hear a lot of "OMG, there aren't any good ways to kill PWs" or "PWs are FAR too powerful and hard to kill". Meanwhile, almost every time I dare to put one into play, it's casually destroyed before I can activate it twice...

But my reason for posting is this:

The codename for Planechase was "Hopscotch." I assume the name was trying to hint at the playfulness/casualness of the product.

...plus getting people to go around the office whispering secretively about "Operation Hopscotch" is hi-LAR-ious!

Planechase isn't even available yet and I can't wait for "Operation Butterscotch" and "Operation Eleven-Year-Old Scotch"!

 

(See also Operation Scotchguard and Operation Scotch Tape)

Well, like I said I have not used PWs much and have not built a deck with cards in mind to protect my PW. I need to as some of them have rather cool abilities.

Aug 30, 2009 -- 10:21PM, bruuil wrote:

Sucks to here about a Planeswalker killing creature.  But, it's good to know that those of us who didn't collect all of the planeswalker might be able to hose those who did, ha!

No doubt it will "destroy a planeswalker" just as well as Misguided Rage is a "red card that destroys enchantments".

A 14/1 creature token, eh? Looks like they got around to making that Glass Cannon they mentioned several years back.

 

Also, I totally dig the name Electropotence. It's Electrolyze's and Necropotence's lovechild, I bet.

As a dedicated player of multiplayer free-for-all magic, with a weekly playgroup, the "Planechase" product is aimed squarely at me and my friends. I appreciate the effort, and I am planning on buying some of the decks and encouraging my friends to also - but to be honest, I suspect we will try it a couple times, enjoy it, and then return to our normal play formats. In some ways, the design of this product seems to conflict with the well-made observations of a different article about players not enjoying things they perceive as 'random'. The fact is that multiplayer games are ALREADY tremendously chaotic and unpredictable, and this product deliberately acts to enhance and increase that factor. While I love many of the wacky and unexpected interactions, I don't generally want to make the outcome of games more dependent on 'die rolls' - even if the die rolls are intepreted in a cool way. Of course, every time you draw an unknown card from the top of your deck, that is ALSO a 'die roll', but that doesn't contradict this point, which is basically that the game is random enough already, because of the deck shuffling and unpredictability of opponent draws.

At the same time, I love the flavor and basic concept of Planechase, and I expect that we might come up with some variant formats and usages for the Planar cards in addition to the official game design. I kind of like the idea of making the Planes chosen by a 'pay life auction' or similar. Making players compete to pay life to choose the plane would remove the random element and also probably make the games move along very fast.

Overall, I'm excited to get my hands on these decks and bring them into my playgroup, and its nice to see a product that tries to give some fan service to a market segment that buys a lot of cards but doesnt always show up at many tournaments or events.

Aug 30, 2009 -- 10:36PM, JanglesPrime wrote:

Aug 30, 2009 -- 10:21PM, bruuil wrote:

Page 2 Get. 

 

Sucks to here about a Planeswalker killing creature.  But, it's good to know that those of us who didn't collect all of the planeswalker might be able to hose those who did, ha!

I'm not liking a PW killer either. I haven't made a deck that takes full advantage of PW abilities yet, but to me they seem a little weak in that they start out with so few loyalty and are so vulnerable to direct damage, at least the few times I have used them that has been the case. Now there is a card that sacrifises itself to kill a PW? It had better be something like "Tap: Sacrifice PW Killer and 3 other creatures you control, send target PW to the graveyard." at the very least.

 

I think this is a "destroy target PERMENANT" rather than specifying "target creature" used for so long.  Much like Planar Cleansing was news as the only card to destroy all non-land PERMENANTS rather than just creatures, artifacts, & enchantments, like usual, and at this point is the only card in Standard that can take out any planeswalkers. (OK I ran accross a few much older cards that attack specific color Permenants or Cards but those were really old and specific like Blue/Red Elemental Blasts and rules changes might have undid the written effect)

I like the way he reprised the Duelist-style cryptic clues. the creature that "sacrifices to make a planeswalker go to the graveyard" could equally be a big green or white creature that can sacrifice to "destroy target permanent", or a small black one that can mimic Entomb... all those sentences are very twisty indeed. ;F

 

the 14/1 creature token reminds me of Shapeshifter - maybe there's a way you can generate a token with fifteen points to split between power and toughness.

 

i'm not all that interested in Planechase and I found M10 calculated to be packed at the rare slot and uninspiring elsewhere - I hope Zendikar is a return to proper set design. Mark headed my favourite set - Visions - so I still have plenty of reasons to be hopeful.

Hmm what can i say? PLANECHASE feels like its rebooted the whole magic franchise... fun, flavour based strategy and a bit of luck, and collectible stuff you can build around..

honestly i feel that M10 does feel somewhat like ABU, sticking to its roots of classical fantasy monsters and boring colours, and that Zendikar is Arabian Nights Part Deux in the new millenium... very exotic, very interesting

can't wait for the new sets to come out! with hopefully planeswalkers stories and a definite storyline to hold onto (no more one set one plane loose cannon stories MaRo!!)

A creature that can sacrifice itself to make a planeswalker go to the graveyard.

 

I bet it's a functional reprint of Mogg Fanatic.

I can't believe we went for two weeks without the fora, only to have it result in this.  It's incredibly ugly, my nice theme is gone, and the only thing the previous forum was missing (a button that does CARD tags) is STILL missing.

MaRo, I had a comment for you, but fighting with the new forum has caused me to completely forget it.

Wizards, way to shoot your forum users in the foot, again. .

I betcha the creature with the text "you win the game" is involved in the two card kill combo MaRo mentioned. If not, games in Standard might get a little swingy...

Why the artwork which looks very much like a repaint (or possibly unedited version) of Horizon Canopy? It doesn't seem to appear in the Planechase cards anywhere, unlike the Bant and Hippodrome art used. I know that's a random thing to pick up on, but it was a bit jarring. :S

Our multiplayer free-for-all games have already started to include global effects in a central pile that we flip up if someone rolls a 6 on a standard 6-sided die.  Planechase just formalizes what we are already doing, and it adds the "chaos" ability which is kind of nice.

I'm definitely going to pick some up.  I think I might not get all 4 sets, maybe just 1, and I'll hope eBay allows me to pick up just the planes.

Much like Planar Cleansing was news as the only card to destroy all non-land PERMENANTS rather than just creatures, artifacts, & enchantments, like usual, and at this point is the only card in Standard that can take out any planeswalkers.

As for directly removing permanents, including planeswalkers, you forgot Oblivion Ring and Maestrom Pulse.

The creature MaRo hinted at could either be destroying permanents or simply dealing damage to a player, which can be redirected to a planeswalker. Although it's not impossible, I don't think we're gonna see "destroy target planeswalker" as an ability anytime soon. The thing is that as of Zendikar, that effect could still only target one of only 13 out of the 10 000+ cards in the game, which makes it rather narrow.

Aug 31, 2009 -- 5:47AM, lathspel wrote:

I can't believe we went for two weeks without the fora, only to have it result in this.  It's incredibly ugly, my nice theme is gone, and the only thing the previous forum was missing (a button that does CARD tags) is STILL missing.

MaRo, I had a comment for you, but fighting with the new forum has caused me to completely forget it.

Wizards, way to shoot your forum users in the foot, again. .

More and more I think that they made a huge mistake to have this change take place when an influx of new players is taking place. It's almost like they intentionally are killing their own momentum (something that until recently I only accused MTGO of doing). And I agree this is less than stellar. At least I actually get to pick an avatar like I can with any other forum by the time I have a few thousand posts.

I will say that if I had a casual mutiplayer group still (haven't in more than 14 years) I would go after these. For now I'll see if I randomly get pulled into such a game. I hardly do multiplayer anymore, but if someone asked me to do this I would not hesitate to say yes.

Great work on Planechase.

Most flavourful plane: Shiv.

 

 

• Electropotence
• Grappling Hook
• Journey to Nowhere
• Lotus Cobra
• Sphinx of Lost Truths
• Vampire's Bite

A continuation of the flavour-based M10 names. By any chance, did you guys go back through Zendikar, and rename everything after the success of M10? :D

Aug 30, 2009 -- 11:58PM, sulfuricmage wrote:

As a dedicated player of multiplayer free-for-all magic, with a weekly playgroup, the "Planechase" product is aimed squarely at me and my friends. I appreciate the effort, and I am planning on buying some of the decks and encouraging my friends to also - but to be honest, I suspect we will try it a couple times, enjoy it, and then return to our normal play formats. In some ways, the design of this product seems to conflict with the well-made observations of a different article about players not enjoying things they perceive as 'random'. The fact is that multiplayer games are ALREADY tremendously chaotic and unpredictable, and this product deliberately acts to enhance and increase that factor. While I love many of the wacky and unexpected interactions, I don't generally want to make the outcome of games more dependent on 'die rolls' - even if the die rolls are intepreted in a cool way. Of course, every time you draw an unknown card from the top of your deck, that is ALSO a 'die roll', but that doesn't contradict this point, which is basically that the game is random enough already, because of the deck shuffling and unpredictability of opponent draws.

At the same time, I love the flavor and basic concept of Planechase, and I expect that we might come up with some variant formats and usages for the Planar cards in addition to the official game design. I kind of like the idea of making the Planes chosen by a 'pay life auction' or similar. Making players compete to pay life to choose the plane would remove the random element and also probably make the games move along very fast.

Overall, I'm excited to get my hands on these decks and bring them into my playgroup, and its nice to see a product that tries to give some fan service to a market segment that buys a lot of cards but doesnt always show up at many tournaments or events.

I've already thought of a varient to PC that could take some of the randomness out of it. Take the PC cards and chouse one at random and let that be the plane you are on for the game, do not switch and treat the PW symbol on the die as another chaos roll. Of course some of the PC cards could not be used like this so thy would have to be taken out but imagin some of the abilies this give you.

But I worry you are right about it being fun a few time and then goes away.

Vampire's Bite- Enchantment
(aura- Enchant player?)
whenever target opponent loses life, you gain life equal to the life lost.

Kills two birds with one stone.

(2 card combo: Sanguine Bond, if you either gain life or deal damage you kill the opponent.)

 

I'm also really keen on the idea of enemy fetchlands... think back about cycles players might want inspired by mechanics of sets from lets say Ravnica and back... not much else really resonates.

Aug 30, 2009 -- 10:17PM, Kaxon wrote:

Enemy fetchlands were the first (and so far only) thing I thought of too.  Here's hope that's what it is.  That would be especially awesome for eternal formats.

Yup.  This is the first thing that popped into my mind.

Electropotence-RRR

enchantment

When an instant or sorcery you control deals damage you may draw a card.

 

Ok that would be disgustingly awesome and red decks would rule standard for 2 years as long as semi-decent burn was printed.

I hope they print it

 

As to the cycle, enemy fetches or "balanced" moxen would be my guess.

I think the 3 most likely 2010 rares for the two card combo are:

1. Sanguine Bond

2. Underworld Dreams

3. Traumatize

Any thoughts?

What's your top 3?

Aug 30, 2009 -- 10:36PM, JanglesPrime wrote:

I'm not liking a PW killer either. I haven't made a deck that takes full advantage of PW abilities yet, but to me they seem a little weak in that they start out with so few loyalty and are so vulnerable to direct damage, at least the few times I have used them that has been the case. Now there is a card that sacrifises itself to kill a PW? It had better be something like "Tap: Sacrifice PW Killer and 3 other creatures you control, send target PW to the graveyard." at the very least.

It is almost certainly of the form "Destroy target (non-TYPE) permanent."

I really hope stone rain returns in this set.  It fits flavor-wise in my opinion what with all these stones raining from the sky and all.

Aug 31, 2009 -- 6:25AM, stygimoloch wrote:

Why the artwork which looks very much like a repaint (or possibly unedited version) of Horizon Canopy? It doesn't seem to appear in the Planechase cards anywhere, unlike the Bant and Hippodrome art used. I know that's a random thing to pick up on, but it was a bit jarring. :S

i assumed it was put in because he was talking about zendikar, and that is what part of zendikar looks like.

Aug 31, 2009 -- 12:14PM, Jimmuh wrote:

Vampire's Bite- Enchantment
(aura- Enchant player?)
whenever target opponent loses life, you gain life equal to the life lost.

Kills two birds with one stone.

(2 card combo: Sanguine Bond, if you either gain life or deal damage you kill the opponent.

without a "may" in there, i'm pretty sure that sets up an infinite loop and the game is a draw.

the 14/1 might be the "convertible turtle" maro mentioned a while back.

Aug 30, 2009 -- 11:58PM, sulfuricmage wrote:

As a dedicated player of multiplayer free-for-all magic, with a weekly playgroup, the "Planechase" product is aimed squarely at me and my friends. I appreciate the effort, and I am planning on buying some of the decks and encouraging my friends to also - but to be honest, I suspect we will try it a couple times, enjoy it, and then return to our normal play formats. In some ways, the design of this product seems to conflict with the well-made observations of a different article about players not enjoying things they perceive as 'random'. The fact is that multiplayer games are ALREADY tremendously chaotic and unpredictable, and this product deliberately acts to enhance and increase that factor. While I love many of the wacky and unexpected interactions, I don't generally want to make the outcome of games more dependent on 'die rolls' - even if the die rolls are intepreted in a cool way. Of course, every time you draw an unknown card from the top of your deck, that is ALSO a 'die roll', but that doesn't contradict this point, which is basically that the game is random enough already, because of the deck shuffling and unpredictability of opponent draws.

At the same time, I love the flavor and basic concept of Planechase, and I expect that we might come up with some variant formats and usages for the Planar cards in addition to the official game design. I kind of like the idea of making the Planes chosen by a 'pay life auction' or similar. Making players compete to pay life to choose the plane would remove the random element and also probably make the games move along very fast.

Overall, I'm excited to get my hands on these decks and bring them into my playgroup, and its nice to see a product that tries to give some fan service to a market segment that buys a lot of cards but doesnt always show up at many tournaments or events.

 

I could see a variant where players can only fight on the same plane and other players would have to stay or persue, as many Magic:TG stories involve planeswalkers escaping to planes for safety or being ejected to planes they can't return from, trying to get back into action.... rather than everybody moving at once (or automatically). That would probably slow down the game and make the rules harder. Maybe they could add a cycle or two of "planechase" specific main deck cards for things like that.

I wonder why they didn't do five sets as that is a common multiplayer format to play the "point" on the "star".  There's not enough planes for them all to be unique (10 cards) and have 5 points... but I guess overlap isn't bad, especially if players bring their own favorite planes.

I'm thinking that this would be fun with EDH and the Star format for group play. This would make good "Un-set" fodder too.... we always need more Un.

Planechase seriously looks to be a lot of fun. Great job guys.

Also, congrats to Ken Nagle for becoming lead designer of a set :D

Ken, I don't know if you remember me (I was one of the guys who thought you wouldn't make the top 3 in the final challenge - was totally wrong there) but let me just say I'm glad my prediction was wrong back then and that you're having a great career in WoTC.

Great job dude.

On mtg salvation, they spoiled 7 cards and one is a trap that activates when an opponent plays two or more lands, so that seems like a good way to couteract a fetch land.

I think the most interesting thing is the, "The land continues to burn.." reminder.
We keep hearing about "Strange Mana". You think this has something to with bringing back Mana Burn, or some variant of it?

Sep 1, 2009 -- 12:48PM, Captan_Lunch wrote:

I think the most interesting thing is the, "The land continues to burn.." reminder.
We keep hearing about "Strange Mana". You think this has something to with bringing back Mana Burn, or some variant of it?

 

I'd bet money on it. Rather than have it be something that a lot of folks never enounter, or just decide not to play with, it makes it an active part of the game. Maro has said part of his reasoning for getting rid of mana burn was to open up design space.

The land continues to burn... hmmm.  Continues to burn is probably the new flavorific take on "this land still produces mana," which would be relevant when you make it a creature. 

Which is much less awesome than I originally thought when I read that line.  I thought we would finally be able to assemble contraptions.   

 

KEN NAGLE YOU'RE LEAD DESIGNING SOME SETS NOW RIGHT, SO INCLUDE CONTRAPTIONS IN ONE OF THEM AND YOU WILL BE MY HERO FOREVER.  AND IF PEOPLE SAY NO YOU SHOULD PULL AN AARON FORSYTHE AND SHOUT "OVERRULLED I'M THE BOSS NOW MWAHAHAHAA!" 

Sep 1, 2009 -- 12:48PM, Captan_Lunch wrote:

I think the most interesting thing is the, "The land continues to burn.." reminder.
We keep hearing about "Strange Mana". You think this has something to with bringing back Mana Burn, or some variant of it?

The Orb only has one result for both Continues and burn, so it's not a widespread mechanic. Likely a flavorful way of tagging a land used by a rare card.

It's interesting to look at people going over the Zendikar spoilers. No one correctly guessed what Vampire Hexmage 's planeswalker-killing ability would be, although someone did predict the fetches correctly. Funny how 8 mana for 4 4/4 fliers ( Luminarch Ascension ) isn't even as good as paying 8 mana for 6 4/4 fliers ( Entreat the Angels ). What was the card that comboes with an M10 rare?

Probably Blood Tribute .  They lose half their life, and when kicked, you gain life equal to what they lost, making a combo kill with sanguine bond .

Aug 31, 2009 -- 12:14PM, Jimmuh wrote:

Vampire's Bite- Enchantment
(aura- Enchant player?)
whenever target opponent loses life, you gain life equal to the life lost.

Kills two birds with one stone.

(2 card combo: Sanguine Bond, if you either gain life or deal damage you kill the opponent.)

I'm also really keen on the idea of enemy fetchlands... think back about cycles players might want inspired by mechanics of sets from lets say Ravnica and back... not much else really resonates.

I think this post is hilarious in hindsight, because they printed Exquisite Blood in Avacyn Restored. The post also called "Aura - Enchant Player" (a.k.a. Curses), though the card in question didn't wind up being a curse.

May 28, 2012 -- 10:25AM, AFolcon wrote:

I think this post is hilarious in hindsight, because they printed Exquisite Blood in Avacyn Restored. The post also called "Aura - Enchant Player" (a.k.a. Curses), though the card in question didn't wind up being a curse.

Paradox Haze was the first card with Enchant Player, although I think Curses were the first to use that mechanic other than "experimental" blocks.

Psychic Possession would be the first Aura to enchant a player. I was more pointing out the fact that the hypothetical card (which wound up printed in Innistrad Block) also made use of Enchant Player (a theme of the Innistrad Block).