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CarstenHaese wrote:

Your interpretation is wrong. Rule 118.3d very clearly says that "that much damage" is marked on the creature. If a source without wither deals 10 damage to a creature, 10 damage is marked on the creature, regardless of whether the creature's toughness is equal to 10, less than 10, or greater than 10. That is a direct application of the rule. Saying anything else means to flat-out ignore what the rule says.

This is where the interpretation is different, because the dmg is not applied until the spell is resolved. Marking the target with the dmg does not determine that the dmg is taken, it simply puts it on the stack. What I am saying is that when the spell is resolved, the dmg is only applicable to the amount of the toughness of the target, because once you do the 1dmg from a shock to the 1toughness creature, you can't have the other 1dmg from the shock dmg anything because there is nothing to dmg; therefore, the other 1dmg is lost. That's my interpretation of it.

cyphern wrote:

Wall of text crits you for 1268.

Here is the rule for when you select X. Please highlight the portions of the rule that restrict your choices based on what the spells future effects will be:

Hahaha.

- 601.2b If the spell is modal the player announces the mode choice (see rule 700.2). If the player wishes to splice any cards onto the spell (see rule 702.44), he or she reveals those cards in his or her hand. If the spell has alternative, additional, or other special costs that will be paid as it’s being cast such as buyback, kicker, or convoke costs (see rules 116.8 and 116.9), the player announces his or her intentions to pay any or all of those costs (see rule 601.2e). A player can’t apply two alternative methods of casting or two alternative costs to a single spell. If the spell has a variable cost that will be paid as it’s being cast (such as an {X} in its mana cost; see rule 107.3), the player announces the value of that variable. If a cost that will be paid as the spell is being cast includes hybrid mana symbols, the player announces the nonhybrid equivalent cost he or she intends to pay. Previously made choices (such as choosing to cast a spell with flashback from a graveyard or choosing to cast a creature with morph face down) may restrict the player’s options when making these choices.

Ok, it does not say that the variable change in X is determined by any future effect of the spell, however, when looking at it from the perspective of my interpretation that you cannot apply more dmg to a creature than the value of it's toughness, and through this rule:

601.2c The player announces his or her choice of an appropriate player, object, or zone for each target the spell requires. A spell may require some targets only if an alternative, additional, or special cost (such as a buyback or kicker cost), or a particular mode, was chosen for it; otherwise, the spell is cast as though it did not have those targets. If the spell has a variable number of targets, the player announces how many targets he or she will choose before he or she announces those targets. The same target can't be chosen multiple times for any one instance of the word "target" on the spell. However, if the spell uses the word "target" in multiple places, the same object, player, or zone can be chosen once for each instance of the word "target" (as long as it fits the targeting criteria).The chosen players, objects, and/or zones each become a target of that spell. (Any abilities that trigger when those players, objects, and/or zones become the target of a spell trigger at this point; they'll wait to be put on the stack until the spell has finished being cast.)
Example: If a spell says "Tap two target creatures," then the same target can't be chosen twice; the spell requires two different legal targets. A spell that says "Destroy target artifact and target land," however, can target the same artifact land twice because it uses the word "target" in multiple places.

Where you have to apply the spell to a target, the value of X must therefore be restricted by the amount of dmg that is able to be applied to the target. It does not state in the rules that the spell cannot be restricted in this manner either.

cyphern wrote:

Explain the part in red. How is there "nothing to damage"? Do you somehow think the creature is already dead???

Yep, insofar as the amount of dmg necessary to kill it. I know what you will say, that the dmg is all instantaneous, and therefore has to apply, but it does not state that in the rules. The rules can clearly be interpreted that the amount of dmg applied to the target can only reach the amount of toughness it has. It does not contradict nor support this anywhere in the rules, it's just an interpretation of how the rules are played out. As I said before, both mine and your interpretation are entirely applicable here.