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MagnusMtG wrote:

This hasn't changed. In the case of Spoils of War, the controller is required to decide that X = the number of appropriate cards in the specified graveyard because the card says so (i.e. Magic's Golden Rule).

The text printed on Bond of Agony does not restrict what the controller can decide on for a value of X.

There is only one x in the whole spell, not two x's. There is one single x. It starts off by paying the mana, then you pay the life based on what x is.

If x = 0 which cascade makes x. then the card looks at it's own x to see how much life you pay. You are NOT choosing for the life's x.

Fireball-Debate wrote:

Until I get it? There is no wrong answer, because there is no real ruling.

Right, but there are real rules.

Look at the Faq discover it says the value of x=0. and so does the rules when x is undefined.

Quote that particular rule for me please.
(Click here for Magic: the Gathering Comprehensive Rules in MS-Word format)

X is undefined in bond. the only way to define the amount of life you pay is to define the value of x in the first place.

Right.

The Rules]104.3c The symbol {X} represents an unspecified amount of mana. When playing a spell or activated ability with {X} in its cost, its controller decides the value of that variable.[/quote wrote:

104.3c The symbol {X} represents an unspecified amount of mana. When playing a spell or activated ability with {X} in its cost, its controller decides the value of that variable.

Cascade makes x=0

The Rules]502.85. Cascade

502.85a Cascade is a triggered ability that functions only while the spell with cascade is on the stack. “ wrote:

502.85. Cascade

502.85a Cascade is a triggered ability that functions only while the spell with cascade is on the stack. “Cascade” means “When you play this spell, remove cards from the top of your library from the game until you remove a nonland card whose converted mana cost is less than this spell’s converted mana cost. You may play that card without paying its mana cost. Then put all cards removed from the game this way that weren’t played on the bottom of your library in a random order.”

502.85b If a spell has multiple instances of cascade, each triggers separately.

No instance of "X=0" in there.

I am really trying my hardest to make you understand where I am coming from. This is my opinion. I am not saying I am right or wrong. No one really can.

Yeah, that's cool. I think your opinion is great! It's just that I am not really interested in your opinion right now, I am interested in how the game of Magic is supposed to be played.

Acting like you think you're right won't get you anywhere, because in fact, no one is right.

All I am doing is quoting directly from the rulebook. How does that make me act like I am right?

If acting like a douche makes you feel good about yourself do it somewhere else.

Can we get a mod to look at that last sentence and determine if that is an appropriate thing to say here at this point?

Also look at the FAQ on cascade until you get it.

Okay, I'll do that.

HendrikHaese wrote:

Please, please, please stop repeating false statements. Equip yourself with a rulebook, find rule 409.1b and read:
[INDENT]409.1b If the spell or ability is modal (uses the phrase “Choose one —,” “Choose two —,” “Choose one or both —,” or “[specified player] chooses one —”, the player announces the mode choice. If the player wishes to splice any cards onto the spell (see rule 502.40), he or she reveals those cards in his or her hand. If the spell or ability has a variable cost that will be paid as it’s being played (such as an {X} in its mana cost), the player announces the value of that variable at this time. If the spell or ability has alternative, additional, or other special costs that will be paid as it’s being played (such as buyback, kicker, or convoke costs), the player announces his or her intentions to pay any or all of those costs (see rule 409.1f). You can’t apply two alternative methods of playing or two alternative costs to a single spell or ability. If a cost that will be paid as the spell or ability is being played includes hybrid mana symbols, the player announces the nonhybrid equivalent cost he or she intends to pay. Previously made choices (such as choosing to play a spell with flashback from his or her graveyard or choosing to play a creature with morph face down) may restrict the player’s options when making these choices.[/INDENT]
The player chooses the X. Not the spell. Not the mana. Not the life. THE PLAYER CHOOSES X.
The player may or may not be limited by something in his choice of X, and that is the whole point of this discussion. The one factual error you keep making is attributing to the cascade-mechanic an intrinsic restriction of (X=0) which just. isn't. there.

so when you cascade a fireball you choose x?

Fireball-Debate wrote:

There is only one x in the whole spell, not two x's. There is one single x. It starts off by paying the mana, then you pay the life based on what x is.

Yes, that is all correct. The rule (not the FAQ) states that the controller of the spell decides the value of X, then the mana cost is paid, then any additional costs are played.

It goes like this:
1) Announce Bond of Agony
2) Controller decides X=10
3) Mana cost is paid
3a) Alternative cost kicks in: Cascade says you may play the spell without paying its mana cost
4) Pay additional costs. X=10, so 10 life is spent.
5) Assuming no responses, priority passes and the spell resolves.