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Helm of Obedience],: Target opponent puts cards from the top of his or her library into his or her graveyard until a creature card or X cards are put into that graveyard this way, whichever comes first. If a creature card is put into that graveyard this way, sacrifice Helm of Obedience and put that card into play under your control. X can't be 0.[/quote wrote:

,: Target opponent puts cards from the top of his or her library into his or her graveyard until a creature card or X cards are put into that graveyard this way, whichever comes first. If a creature card is put into that graveyard this way, sacrifice Helm of Obedience and put that card into play under your control. X can't be 0.

Progenitus]If Progenitus would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, reveal Progenitus and shuffle it into its owner's library instead.

Progenitus' ability is not optional, there is no may.

Helm says to repeat putting cards into the graveyard until X cards or a creature card ends up there. Assuming the library only had Progenitus in it, the end condition on Helm will never be satisfied as it becomes "Target opponent takes cards from the top of his or her library and shuffles them into his or her library until a creature card or X cards are put into that graveyard this way, whichever comes first. If a creature card is put into that graveyard this way, sacrifice Helm of Obedience and put that card into play under your control. X can't be 0."

there is no option here, it is a draw plain and simple.

oops just noticed the Leyline of the Void

If Progenitus would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, reveal Progenitus and shuffle it into its owner's library instead.[/quote]
Progenitus' ability is not optional, there is no may.

Helm says to repeat putting cards into the graveyard until X cards or a creature card ends up there. Assuming the library only had Progenitus in it, the end condition on Helm will never be satisfied as it becomes "Target opponent takes cards from the top of his or her library and shuffles them into his or her library until a creature card or X cards are put into that graveyard this way, whichever comes first. If a creature card is put into that graveyard this way, sacrifice Helm of Obedience and put that card into play under your control. X can't be 0."

there is no option here, it is a draw plain and simple.

oops just noticed the Leyline of the Void

Leyline of the Void]If a card would be put into an opponent's graveyard from anywhere, remove it from the game instead.

so we have competing replacement effects
well assuming Progenitus was the only card again
it's still a draw, Progenitus either goes to the library or gets RFG'd and Helm will continue to mill from an empty library never reaching its terminating co wrote:

2goth4U wrote:

it's still a draw, Progenitus either goes to the library or gets RFG'd and Helm will continue to mill from an empty library never reaching its terminating condition

The rules contradict you on the last bit.

Comprehensive Rules]416.3. If an effect attempts to do something impossible, it does only as much as possible.
Example: If a player is holding only one card, an effect that reads "Discard two cards" causes him or her to discard only that card. If an effect moves cards out of the library (as opposed to drawing), it moves as many as possible.

So once the Helm reaches the point where there are no more cards in the library, it'll stop even though it hasn't ever seen X cards or a creature card hit the graveyard simply because there isn't anything more it can wrote:

OrcishLibrarian wrote:

The rules contradict you on the last bit.



So once the Helm reaches the point where there are no more cards in the library, it'll stop even though it hasn't ever seen X cards or a creature card hit the graveyard simply because there isn't anything more it can do.

10/1/2008 If an effect like that of Leyline of the Void prevents cards from being put into your opponent's graveyard, the process described in the first sentence of Helm of Obedience's effect will never stop. Your opponent's entire library will be removed from the game, even if X is 1.

2goth4U wrote:

incorrect
RFGing Progenitus will not satisfy the terminating condition of the Helm.

it ends when X cards end up in the library or a creature ends up in the library

Progenitus being RFGed does not fulfill either requirement

However, once the library is finally empty -- which will happen if/when the library's owner has finally chosen to apply the Leyline's replacement effect first for every Progenitus in said library --, the process will stop because it is no longer possible to continue.

2goth4U wrote:

10/1/2008 If an effect like that of Leyline of the Void prevents cards from being put into your opponent's graveyard, the process described in the first sentence of Helm of Obedience's effect will never stop. Your opponent's entire library will be removed from the game, even if X is 1.

That ruling is badly worded either way. If the Helm stops once the library is empty -- which is what the rules say, which in turn top individual rulings --, then to say that the process will 'never' stop without further qualifier is misleading. (It appears to have misled you, for one.) On the other hand, if it was true that the process literally never stops, then the ruling would have to end with "and the game ends in a draw." because that's the natural result of repeating loops of mandatory actions with no terminating condition, and it doesn't actually do so.