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And whats the difference between a foil promo and a regular foil?

promos and foil promos are tournament legal... regardless of artwork.

on this topic, are altered art cards tournament legal?

A foil Promo has some different expansion symbol, or some fruity foil process wherein different bits are foily, or sometimes different art.

All that makes a card tourny legal is two simple criteria:
1. It has a regular "Magic: The Gathering" card back.
2. It doesn't have silver borders on the front.

or gold borders

Arch_Angel wrote:

Promo cards are tournament legal right?

Please ask your question in the post, not in the title.

Yes - as long as the card has black or white borders and a normal Magic back, its legal.

I don't know of any gold-bordered cards that don't have a variant card-back.

ahh, i forgot that they had differnet backs.

what about cards that have altered art work on them?

oatusmcflee wrote:

what about cards that have altered art work on them?

There's a big old can of worms.


I can't find the exact ruling, but I recall that the original card has to be recognizable somehow.

oatusmcflee wrote:

what about cards that have altered art work on them?

It's up to your Head Judge to decide whether or not the card is allowed in their Tournament.
[indent]28. Taking Notes
Not Relevant Show

Cards used in a tournament may not have writing on their faces other than signatures or artistic modifications. Modifications may not obscure the artwork so as to make the card unrecognizable. [color=black]If modifications to a card are deemed by the Head Judge to constitute outside notes or unsporting conduct,[/color] the player using such cards will be subject to the appropriate provisions of the DCI Penalty Guidelines.[/indent]
So, if you have Altered Art cards, it'd be wise to keep a few nonAltered Copies on hand, just in case the Head Judge says no.

By altered art, do you mean like hydrogeddon.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/yugio … -EN-SR.png

People like to color/ ink in the brown part black, then make the white part vivid colors (Red, Yellow, Green, orange,etc) to differentiate the different copies in their deck.

Qmark wrote:

A foil Promo has some different expansion symbol, or some fruity foil process wherein different bits are foily, or sometimes different art.

All that makes a card tourny legal is two simple criteria:
1. It has a regular "Magic: The Gathering" card back.
2. It doesn't have silver borders on the front.

Almost. A card is legal for tournament play if it has:
- the standard Magic card back,
- white or black (not gold or silver) borders, and
- rounded (not square) corners.

They must still, however, not stand out from the rest of your deck. Many people are experiencing problems with the recent release promos like Ajani Vengeant and Figure of Destiny. Apparently they've used a new foiling process that leaves the cards quite noticeably curved and therefore marked, and marked cards of any form are not permitted in tournament play.

Mijuu wrote:

By altered art, do you mean like hydrogeddon.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/yugio … -EN-SR.png

People like to color/ ink in the brown part black, then make the white part vivid colors (Red, Yellow, Green, orange,etc) to differentiate the different copies in their deck.

By altered art, they mean like this: link

IronMagus wrote:

- rounded (not square) corners.

Collector's Edition and International Collector's Edition both have variant backs.
There is a gold inlay of "Collector's Edition" or "International Collector's Edition" between the usual Magic logo and the Deckamsters thing.

Qmark wrote:

Collector's Edition and International Collector's Edition both have variant backs.
There is a gold inlay of "Collector's Edition" or "International Collector's Edition" between the usual Magic logo and the Deckamsters thing.

I'm just paraphrasing the official rule from the Magic Floor Rules document, but I suppose I could post the actual rule verbatim if it would help:
[indent]102. Authorized Cards
Alpha cards (cards from the first print run of the core set) may be used in decks containing non-Alpha cards only if all cards are placed in completely opaque sleeves and only if the sleeves could not be considered marked. If sleeves are not used, Alpha cards may be used only in decks that consist exclusively of Alpha cards.

Participants may not use cards from special sets or supplements with alternate backs, squared corners or gold borders. (Examples: Collector’s Edition, Pro Tour Collector’s Set, World Championship decks.) Players may not use silver-bordered Unglued™ or Unhinged™ cards. Unglued and Unhinged basic land cards are allowed in sanctioned Magic tournaments.

Players may use cards from special sets and supplements with black- or white-bordered cards published by Wizards of the Coast that do not have alternate backs and/or squared corners. (Examples: the Anthologies™, Beatdown™, Battle Royale™, From the Vault: Dragons box sets). However, the card(s) must be otherwise legal to play in that tournament’s format.

A series of official promotional cards called textless spells are allowed in DCI-sanctioned Magic tournaments. However, the card(s) must otherwise be legal to play in that tournament’s format. These cards should be interpreted using their current Oracle™ wordings.[/indent]

Ah, a technicality, yes.
However, regular backs and square corners do not currently exist.

Qmark wrote:

Ah, a technicality, yes.
However, regular backs and square corners do not currently exist.

If I remember correctly, Alpha disagrees with you.

gamemaniac2 wrote:

If I remember correctly, Alpha disagrees with you.

Alpha is not square. In fact, it's even more rounded than usual.

IronMagus wrote:

Almost. A card is legal for tournament play if it has:
- the standard Magic card back,
- white or black (not gold or silver) borders, and
- rounded (not square) corners.

They must still, however, not stand out from the rest of your deck. Many people are experiencing problems with the recent release promos like Ajani Vengeant and Figure of Destiny. Apparently they've used a new foiling process that leaves the cards quite noticeably curved and therefore marked, and marked cards of any form are not permitted in tournament play.



By altered art, they mean like this: link

How do they do that?!

EDIT: And wouldnt spawn be black and blue?

Qmark wrote:

A foil Promo has some different expansion symbol, or some fruity foil process wherein different bits are foily, or sometimes different art.

All that makes a card tourny legal is two simple criteria:
1. It has a regular "Magic: The Gathering" card back.
2. It doesn't have silver borders on the front.

And if it's for a T2 tourney, it's from one of the current sets that's T2, and etc etc for extended, vintage, w/e

IronMagus wrote:

By altered art, they mean like this: link

/drool at that tinker. That's awesome.

And if I were the judge I wouldn't allow that Yawgwin in a tournament... I mean sure the text is there, but he changed the name and the art is replaced almost completely.

This seems to be a rules question at its heart, so I'll move it to Rules Q&A now.

shotgunpriest wrote:

And if it's for a T2 tourney, it's from one of the current sets that's T2, and etc etc for extended, vintage, w/e

A more precise condition is that the card's (English) name has to be the name of a card legal in the format. It doesn't matter which set or printing a given piece of cardboard comes from as long as it has the right name.

Wait, by all these rules, would a deck of 60 oversized cards be legal? They have the same back, rounded corners, and black borders.

InsulterofProblems wrote:

Wait, by all these rules, would a deck of 60 oversized cards be legal? They have the same back, rounded corners, and black borders.

If the deck is otherwise legal, I can't think of a convincing reason why not. Obviously, you can't mix oversized and normal cards in a deck - that would be marked cards - and the Head Judge of a given event could always rule against it.

One potential basis for ruling against it is the argument that the scaled up card-back counts as an "alternate back"

I don't know which cards have been printed in oversized versions, but it seems to me that making a legal decklist entirely of cards that exist in oversized versions may be impossible, and even if it is possible, it's unlikely that the deck would be any good - which probably explains why the matter isn't explicitly addressed...

rmsgrey wrote:

I don't know which cards have been printed in oversized versions, but it seems to me that making a legal decklist entirely of cards that exist in oversized versions may be impossible, and even if it is possible, it's unlikely that the deck would be any good - which probably explains why the matter isn't explicitly addressed...

I believe to run a 60 card deck of them, you need to run 4 Black Lotuses, so its not legal in any format, but its an interesting trick.

Are there oversized cards with the standard Magic cardback? All the ones I've seen have something different on the backs, like an ad for the new set or something...

I have 5 of the early oversized promos, and they all have a regular Magic back with the exception of the text "not for play use," which of course means that they do NOT have the regular Magic back, and are not legal cards.

I don't know of any oversized promos that have a completely normal back.

Does this rule still apply if you are using sleeves?

Yes.

Is there any reason they wouldn't be allowed in sleeves, other than "because we said so!" I'm just curious, because they wouldn't be distinguishable in legal sleeves.

so what formats is my Ace of Spades legal in? I forget what the corners look like, but they do have the standard back.

TheAsylumCGC wrote:

Is there any reason they wouldn't be allowed in sleeves, other than "because we said so!" I'm just curious, because they wouldn't be distinguishable in legal sleeves.

Because giving them a different back is a way to distinguish legal cards from non legal promo prints (such as world championship decks and Collector's Edition).
Yes, world championship decks are gold bordered and collector's edition has square corners, but both can easely be camouflaged. This prevents people from coming with collector's edition cards and saying "look, the corners aren't square, this means it's legal!"

sirlynchmob wrote:

so what formats is my Ace of Spades legal in? I forget what the corners look like, but they do have the standard back.

I used to have one of those decks. Wish I still did.

I'd have to say, there's no sanctioned tournament they would be legal in, not for any of the card back or card border reasons, but because they do not have a name which is from ANY set that would be legal in any sanctioned tournament.

The oversized promos are definitely not tournament-legal. And while Alpha cards are legal, if the card is legal in the format (i.e., an Alpha Giant Spider is even legal in Standard, by Rule 50) if your deck mixes Alpha and non-Alpha cards, sleeves are required.

It's too bad about some of the new foils being so curved that they are not playable, but I presume WotC is moving rapidly to correct that.

quadibloc wrote:

The oversized promos are definitely not tournament-legal. And while Alpha cards are legal, if the card is legal in the format (i.e., an Alpha Giant Spider is even legal in Standard, by Rule 50) if your deck mixes Alpha and non-Alpha cards, sleeves are required.

It's too bad about some of the new foils being so curved that they are not playable, but I presume WotC is moving rapidly to correct that.

Some reason you necro'd a 2-month-old thread?

Since it's back, though, I am curious...

If the deck consists entirely of legal sleeves (once you can't see through, so no possibility of marking the card so that you can tell through the sleeve), why is it illegal to have those other cards? Sure, with no sleeves, that's marked cards, but with them...

Kedar wrote:

If the deck consists entirely of legal sleeves (once you can't see through, so no possibility of marking the card so that you can tell through the sleeve), why is it illegal to have those other cards? Sure, with no sleeves, that's marked cards, but with them...

One of the major classes of gold-bordered cards is the world championship top-4 decks - obviously, there are issues with letting people get the cards for a first-tier deck that cheaply - it would do unpleasant things to the singles market, and have a potent impact on the Constructed environment - as well as cutting into Wizards' profits...

You can argue whether or not it's worth selling pre-constructed tier-1 decks if they're not going to be tournament legal, but it's definitely better than selling them and having them be tournament legal...