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4 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2009 - 7:37AM
#81
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Date Joined:
Oct 13, 2002
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Nothing in the game would "break" if you could target every creature with a 0 point rolling thunder  , but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense flavor-wise and makes some cards more or less powerful. For example, it prevents you from doing things like killing all your opponents' creatures with a 0 point rolling thunder when Horobi  is in play.
All Generalizations are Bad
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4 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2009 - 1:10PM
#82
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2004
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Late to the party, but some thoughts: 1) Grip of Chaos  uses the word "target" twice (three times with reminder text) but neither the spell, nor its ability, targets. Reflecting on that (and similar cards) is a good way to shift your intuition away from "whenever it says target" to include considerations of how the word is used... 2) As alluded to earlier in the thread, the Beatdown wording for Fireball  (the one with  in the cost) did require at least one target. 3) Choosing arbitrarily large numbers of targets "for free" isn't immediately catastrophic the way, say, generating arbitrarily large amounts of mana "for free" is, but it still has that certain something that makes experienced designers worry - just look at life.dec for the sort of things Johnny can do with something as innocuous as free targeting...
M:tG Rules Advisor
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4 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2009 - 2:28PM
#83
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Late to the party, but some thoughts:
2) As alluded to earlier in the thread, the Beatdown wording for Fireball (the one with in the cost) did require at least one target.
I know. I am pretty sure I am right. But I won't fight it anymore. I will ask around my own community. I will try to find some judges to ask. If I am right, what's the use of ever using these boards for rules questions ever again.
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4 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2009 - 2:34PM
#84
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Nothing in the game would "break" if you could target every creature with a 0 point rolling thunder , but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense flavor-wise and makes some cards more or less powerful.
For example, it prevents you from doing things like killing all your opponents' creatures with a 0 point rolling thunder when Horobi is in play.
I should build that deck for fun and take it to an extended tournament. Then Play that combo. I will delight in the perplexed look on my opponents face as he slowly raises his hand and yells "JUDGE!"
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4 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2009 - 2:55PM
#85
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Date Joined:
Sep 16, 2007
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I know. I am pretty sure I am right. But I won't fight it anymore. I will ask around my own community. I will try to find some judges to ask. If I am right, what's the use of ever using these boards for rules questions ever again.
[FONT="Bell MT"]
Because you are not right, as far as it works now; it worked that way when it had a cost of included in its casting cost, and said 'y plus one targets' in the instructions. Even if Y=0, 0+1=1, so you have to choose at least one target.
Under the current Oracle wording, however, zero targets may be chosen.
As far as how Fireball currently works, you are not right.
However, I will say this: Even if, on this one-card issue, we are all wrong and you are right, that doesn't make you overall better at reading the rules of this game. Those of us who know the rules almost completely inside and out can still answer 99.9999% of questions correctly; don't use this one, which doesn't have an obvious answer with its current wording, as a basis for 'OMG you guys know nothing, these boards are useless.'[/FONT]
MTG Rules Advisor 
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4 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2009 - 2:57PM
#86
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Date Joined:
Sep 16, 2007
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I should build that deck for fun and take it to an extended tournament. Then Play that combo. I will delight in the perplexed look on my opponents face as he slowly raises his hand and yells "JUDGE!"
Wait, so you're going to try to do something you are continually saying can't be done, in the hopes of taking advantage of a Judge who might think it's alright to do that?
MTG Rules Advisor
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4 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2009 - 3:07PM
#87
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Date Joined:
Jul 25, 2003
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I know. I am pretty sure I am right. But I won't fight it anymore. I will ask around my own community. I will try to find some judges to ask. If I am right, what's the use of ever using these boards for rules questions ever again.
What part of Wizards.COMmunity Boards NetRep do you not understand? The ruling given by natedogg is official. Also, the person that natedogg quoted, Scott Marshall, is the person judges ask when they are unsure. He's the one answering the official Magic Rules news list. (or was, I think some other guy does it now, but I'm fairly sure that quote comes from when it was Scott Marshall).
Saying "I'm gonna ask a random local judge about it" after you got the answer straight from the Wizards.COMmunity Boards NetRep AND a quote from Scott Marshall is like saying "I'm gonna ask my friend who just started law school about this law" when one of the most knowledgealbe lawer just explained that law to you.
I mean, who do you think is more likely to be wrong? A level 1 local judge or a level 4 judge who was hired by WotC to answer questions from other judges?
You'd pretty much have to get Mark Gottlieb to agree with you to prove us wrong at this point.
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4 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2009 - 3:48PM
#88
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Wait, so you're going to try to do something you are continually saying can't be done, in the hopes of taking advantage of a Judge who might think it's alright to do that?
Way to completely contradict yourself.
*franks and beans*
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4 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2009 - 3:50PM
#89
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Date Joined:
Oct 14, 2007
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Way to completely contradict yourself.
*franks and beans*
I have no idea what this means.
I have too many irons in the fire. Some useful keyboard shortcuts on Windows
Show
Long dash (em-dash) — Alt+0151
Short dash (en-dash) – Alt+0150
Capital æsc Æ Alt+0198
Lowercase æsc æ Alt+0230
Or you could just copy/paste them from this signature, I guess.
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4 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2009 - 4:07PM
#90
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The question has been thoroughly answered and now the trolling is getting started. Can we get this thread locked before it really devolves? Please?
I'm just a Pigment of your imagination.
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