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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 1:52PM
#51
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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I don't see how this information doesn't conclusively end this thread...
The Word AND isn't listed with other effects. It's English, and means and, or means or
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 1:55PM
#52
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- Celestial Teapots are broken!
Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2007
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Something enchanted by Lush Growth  is a Mountain, a Forest and a Plains. It's all three of those land types. All of them. No one is disputing any of that. However, having those three land types does not give it the ability "  : Add    to your mana pool." That's not what it does. Having multiple basic land types does not give something the ability to produce multiple mana. Rather, it gives it these three abilities: " : Add to your mana pool." " : Add to your mana pool." " : Add to your mana pool." A single can only pay for one of those abilities. That means even though it has " : Add to your mana pool." and " : Add to your mana pool." and " : Add to your mana pool.", tapping it will produce only , or .
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 1:57PM
#53
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2005
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When you ask a rules question, please autocard.Type [c ]Doom Blade[ /c] to get Doom Blade  . What Color Am I?
Show
What Class Am I?
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 2:00PM
#54
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- Slow and Steady Wins the Race
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Look at something like Prismatic Omen  . Do you really believe that gives all your lands the ability to tap for   ? Lush Growth makes cards into a mountain, forest and plains. (Yes, it does override previous types). This alone would tell you nothing about what mana it provides, it's only the rules that tell you mountains inherently have : Add to your mana pool and so on. When you tap a mountain you add to your mana pool, but only because you're using that ability. If you have a mountain enchanted with Hostile Realm  , you don't also get one red mana for using its can't block ability. A mountain forest like Taiga  has a blank rules box - look at its current Oracle wording. But because it's a mountain the rules tell us it has : Add to your mana pool and because it's a forest the rules tell us it has : Add to your mana pool as well. It's a mountian AND a forest; that means it has : Add to your mana pool AND  : Add to your mana pool as well, not that it has : Add AND to your mana pool.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 2:01PM
#55
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Date Joined:
Feb 16, 2007
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I wish Sir-Phobos would actually read what I wrote.
Quote
"What would you prefer it say: "Enchanted land is a Mountain, Forest, or Plains"? That doesn't exactly make sense."
Jungle Shrine says that the Land taps add R/G/ or W to your mana pool and that makes sense. Why? Because it doesn't say AND every example of a dual land I see used says "or" in the reminder or flatly on it. Lush Growth says AND on Jungle Shrine it's not in () so I don't think thats reminder its what the card does, it's simply what it does.
Also general note I don't really ever post anywhere so the autocarding and little symbols is not something I practice.
You can't just linearly add the effects of the three abilities while ignoring the costs of the three abilities. It has all three tap costs as well as all three mana producing effects. If you want to tap it for three mana, you need a way to untap it two additional times.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 2:02PM
#56
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Date Joined:
Oct 13, 2002
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I wish Sir-Phobos would actually read what I wrote.
Quote
"What would you prefer it say: "Enchanted land is a Mountain, Forest, or Plains"? That doesn't exactly make sense."
Jungle Shrine says that the Land taps add R/G/ or W to your mana pool and that makes sense. Why? Because it doesn't say AND every example of a dual land I see used says "or" in the reminder or flatly on it. Lush Growth says AND on Jungle Shrine it's not in () so I don't think thats reminder its what the card does, it's simply what it does.
Also general note I don't really ever post anywhere so the autocarding and little symbols is not something I practice.
See the type line for Sacred Foundry  ? It says Land - Mountain Plains. That means it is both a plains and a mountain, just like a land that you put lush growth on is a plains, a mountain, and a forest, all at the same time. Being multiple land types doesn't let you play multiple activated abilities at the same time.
Also, the golden rule simply doesn't apply here. Lush growth in no way breaks the rules. In fact, it wouldn't even change the mana that the land provided if not for a specific rule which has already been quoted many times in this thread. The golden rule is for cards which specifically contradict rules. For example, there is a rule that states that you lose the game if you have less than 1 life. Platinum Angel  specifically contradicts that rule, and since the card and the rules diagree, the card wins.
All Generalizations are Bad
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 2:06PM
#57
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The Word AND isn't listed with other effects. It's English, and means and, or means or
Your problem here is that Jungle Shrine  is NOT, I repeat NOT a Mountain, a Forest OR a Plains.
As such, the mana ability HAS to be printed on the card. And that mana ability MUST tell you what kind of mana it produces.
Note that this is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from a dual land like Sacred Foundry .
Sacred Foundry doesn't have ANY mana ability printed on it. NOT ONE. Instead, it's mana abilities are granted by the Rules because it has the Basic land type Mountain and Plains. Each of those gives it a SEPARATE mana ability. They are NOT a single mana ability which you choose whether to get or from when you use it. THEY ARE TWO SEPARATE ABILITIES!
The same is true for Lush Growth . Lush Growth doesn't use the word "or" because that's NOT how it behaves. The land IS all three types.
The problem really seems to be that you believe a land like Sacred Foundry only has ONE mana ability, which lets you choose which color mana to get, and that simply isn't the case. It has 2. And a land enchanted by Lush Growth will have (at least) three. All of which are different.
You play ONE of the abilities, and that ability generates ONE mana of a SPECIFIC color. You don't play one ability which then lets you choose a color. That is how Jungle Shrine behaves, NOT how the dual lands behave.
I'm just a Pigment of your imagination.
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 2:09PM
#58
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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I feel this is just a poorly worded card. I was playing last night with a group of old players and 2 newer players. We all read the card. Only one of us said it is as you say and they used a land which tapped for a W or B as an example. I thought it was odd that would only be a common and not have greater cost or effort required to use it. The 2 pages of posts show that this is a poorly written card. but that happens. Again the original White Ward is a poorly written card. The Alpha and 3rd Ed. prints would have you remove it as it goes on it's not till 4th ed. that it was corrected. I suppose the Enchantment making a single land count as 3 basic lands in no way contradicts the rules on how basic lands work.
Prismatic Omen says "in addition to" not and
Hostile realms is a tap enchantment you have to tap the card it enchanting specifically for the effect
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 2:11PM
#59
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2004
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OK, Magic fundamentals time here: There are five "basic land types"; Plains  , Island  , Mountain  , Swamp  and Forest  . Each "basic land type" grants a specific activated mana ability to the land it is on:
- The Plains basic land type grants "
 : Add  to your mana pool.
- The Island basic land type grants ": Add
 to your mana pool.
- The Mountain basic land type grants ": Add
 to your mana pool.
- The Swamp basic land type grants ": Add
 to your mana pool.
- The Forest basic land type grants ": Add
 to your mana pool.
Lush Growth removes all existing Land types from the enchanted Land and replaces them with "Mountain, Forest, Plains". Unlike every other (sub-)type in the game, this grants the three associated activated abilities to the Land (The Mountain basic land type grants ": Add to your mana pool. The Forest basic land type grants ": Add to your mana pool. The Plains basic land type grants ": Add to your mana pool.) In case you missed it, each of these abilities costs and adds one mana to your mana pool. To play one of these abilities, you must first declare which one you are using, make any choices required (there aren't any for these) then pay the cost. The cost of each one is . If you can't pay the cost, you can't play the ability. So, having played one of those three abilities, you want to play one of the others; you announce it, make your no choices and go to pa..oh, but you can't, since the land is already tapped. This is why a Land enchanted by Lush Growth can only produce one mana. P.S. The card wording is perfectly fine, for an Expert set. Expert sets assume at least a passing familiarity with the Comprehensive Rulebook, rather than the Basic Rulebook. The CR is the final word on what happens in a game of Magic; even level 4 Judges are supposed to bow before it. This card does not contradict the Comprehensive Rules in any way - it exploits them.
ΦΦΦΦΦ
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4 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2009 - 2:12PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2005
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Is there a better wording that maintains this card's functionality??
I don't think the 2 pages show that this a poorly-worded card. About eighty percent of the posts in here are from people stating the rules of the game, and how they support the function of Lush Growth.
When you ask a rules question, please autocard.Type [c ]Doom Blade[ /c] to get Doom Blade . What Color Am I?
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What Class Am I?
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