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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 3:34PM
#1
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This is a two part question:
1. Are there any rules or guidelines that govern the updating of the CR when a new mechanic/subtype/etc is created by a new set? The specific question has to do with the possible creation of a new basic land type and how would we know if it was a basic land type or just a new subtype on a basic land that wasn't actually a basic land type.
2. Am I correct in understanding that, despite the CR listing 10 basic land names (Forest, Island, Mountain, Plains, Swamp, Snow-Covered Forest,
Snow-Covered Island, Snow-Covered Mountain, Snow-Covered Plains, and Snow-Covered Swamp), there are only five basic land types because putting Snow-Covered in front of a basic land type still leaves it as one of the five basic land types and not a separate basic land type? I think some folks are getting confused between a basic land type and the name of the basic land card.
If any of that isn't clear, I'll try to make more sense.
Edit: I goofed in the title; it should say The Basics of Basic Land Types.
This forum shouldn't have been made active until it was finished. There's just no excuse for this piece of garbage.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 3:42PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Nov 11, 2001
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1: The comp rules are updated by WotC every time a set is released to include any new types, super types, sub-types, ability words, key words, etc. I don't see an actual question there, but I hope what you ment to ask was answered above. 2: The basic land types are "Forest, Plains, Island, Swamp, and Mountain", Snow is a super-type (like legendary or basic). A basic land is a card with the type land and the super type basic, any other types, super types, and/or sub types that card has don't change the fact that it is a basic land. City of Glass Legendary Tribal Basic Snow World Land - Plains Island Swamp Mountain Forest Avatar City of Glass comes into play tapped.      : City of Glass becomes a 5/5 creature until end of turn. It's still a land. City of Glass would be a basic land and you could run any number of them in a deck.
205.4. Supertypes
205.4a A card can also have one or more supertypes. These are printed directly before its card types. If an object’s card types or subtypes change, any supertypes it has are kept, although they may not be relevant to the new card type.
205.4b Any land with the supertype “basic” is a basic land. Any land that doesn’t have this supertype is a nonbasic land.
Example: Note that cards printed in sets prior to the Eighth Edition core set didn’t use the word “basic” to indicate a basic land. Cards from those sets with the following names are basic lands: Forest, Island, Mountain, Plains, Swamp, Snow-Covered Forest, Snow-Covered Island, Snow-Covered Mountain, Snow-Covered Plains, and Snow-Covered Swamp.
and
212.6g The basic land types are Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, and Forest. If an object uses the words “basic land type,” it’s referring to one of these subtypes. A land with a basic land type has an intrinsic ability to produce colored mana. (See rule 406, “Mana Abilities.” The land is treated as if its text box included, “{T}: Add [mana symbol] to your mana pool,” even if the text box doesn’t actually contain text or the card has no text box. Plains produce white mana; Islands, blue; Swamps, black; Mountains, red; and Forests, green.
As a final note:
Unrelenting Rats ![](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name="Relentless Rats"&type=card) 
Basic Creature - Rats
~'s power and toughness are equal to the number of rats in play.
*/*
Is Basic, but it isn't a basic land and you can only run 4 of them in a deck (the exemption is ONLY for basic lands). However if you somehow made it a land while it was in play then it would be a basic land and you couldn't destroy it with something that said to destroy target non-basic land.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 4:00PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Nov 11, 2001
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As an example I am going to list some changes, the below is edited and is not official rules.
212.6g The basic land types are Cave, Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, and Forest. If an object uses the words “basic land type,” it’s referring to one of these subtypes. A land with a basic land type has an intrinsic ability to produce colored mana. (See rule 406, “Mana Abilities.” The land is treated as if its text box included, “{T}: Add [mana symbol] to your mana pool,” even if the text box doesn’t actually contain text or the card has no text box. Caves produce colorless mana; Plains, white; Islands, blue; Swamps, black; Mountains, red; and Forests, green.
Deep Cavern
Land - Cave
Deep Cavern would be a NON-Basic land that had a basic land type and the ability to tap for colorless mana.
Cave
Basic Land - Cave
Cave on the other hand would be a Basic Land that had a basic type and the ability to tap for colorless mana.
Deeper Cavern
Basic Land - Lair
Deeper Cavern would be a Basic Land that couldn't tap for mana and had no basic land type.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 4:04PM
#4
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1: The comp rules are updated by WotC every time a set is released to include any new types, super types, sub-types, ability words, key words, etc. I don't see an actual question there, but I hope what you ment to ask was answered above.
Someone on another thread feels that he needs more proof that if Cave from MaRo's Monday article were printed, Cave (as in the basic land type, not the card name) would be added to the list of basic land types. Aside from what I quoted to him from that article, I have no idea where to find any official information that gives the guidelines for what would cause WotC to update the CR and I figured if anyone knew the answer, it would be someone on here.
There may be a bit of a language barrier, or it may just be that I've assumed they would update the CR and so read that into the article.
This forum shouldn't have been made active until it was finished. There's just no excuse for this piece of garbage.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 4:09PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Nov 11, 2001
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WotC updates the Comp Rules EVERY SET, that said if they printed Cave as listed in that article they would need to make the example update I listed to 212.6g. (and thats why I listed Deeper Cavern. A land type appearing on a basic land does not make that land type basic.)
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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 4:11PM
#6
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WotC updates the Comp Rules EVERY SET, that said if they printed Cave as listed in that article they would need to make the example update I listed to 212.6g. (and thats why I listed Deeper Cavern. A land type appearing on a basic land does not make that land type basic.)
OK, I'll point him here and see if that's sufficient to convince him.
Thanks. 
This forum shouldn't have been made active until it was finished. There's just no excuse for this piece of garbage.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 5:33PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 28, 2003
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Hi. I'm the guy who needs conviction. I think that our question was answered by Deeper Cavern, but for a mental exercise I would be willing to try it yet on City of Glass. Avatar wouldn't become basic land type in first place because it isn't land type but tribal type. But lets say its typeline would look like: Basic Land - Plains Island Swamp Mountain Forest Locus Locus wouldn't become basic land type, am I right?
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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 5:37PM
#8
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- Celestial Teapots are broken!
Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2007
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The game rules could support such a type line without making Locus into a basic land type.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 5:47PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Nov 11, 2001
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Hi. I'm the guy who needs conviction.
I think that our question was answered by Deeper Cavern, but for a mental exercise I would be willing to try it yet on City of Glass.
Avatar wouldn't become basic land type in first place because it isn't land type but tribal type. But lets say its typeline would look like:
Basic Land - Plains Island Swamp Mountain Forest Locus
Locus wouldn't become basic land type, am I right?
Correct, The Basic Land types are defined by 212.6g, not by what subtypes may or may not appear on actual basic land. It doesn't really make a difference but I wanted to note that Avatar is a Creature type (Tribal shares subtypes with Creature and they are collectively known as Creature Types).
That all said I wouldn't expect them to ever actually print a Basic Land card that had a subtype that wasn't a basic land type.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 5:56PM
#10
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That all said I wouldn't expect them to ever actually print a Basic Land card that had a subtype that wasn't a basic land type.
This is the sticking point. We have all agreed that game rules as they currently stand wouldn't make Cave, as printed in the article, a basic land type. What we can't get across to Qamar is that if WotC printed Cave (the card), they would only do so if they also added Cave (the land type) to the basic land types. His feeling on it is that the reason they say in the article that Cave wasn't printed is because the fact that Cave isn't currently a basic land type made the card essentially unprintable.
I'm out of ways to get the point across that if they wanted to print Cave, they'd add it to the basic land types.
This forum shouldn't have been made active until it was finished. There's just no excuse for this piece of garbage.
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