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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 1:38PM
#31
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Has he done well in testing? Or does he slow the deck down too much?
i wouldnt imagine he slows it down very much, since hes only 2cc and hybrid of 2 of the main colors...
i sorted out all the stuff i have for this, and started narrowing down things by "how many and if i have" of everything... will deff be workin out a starting list tonight...
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 1:59PM
#32
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i wouldnt imagine he slows it down very much, since hes only 2cc and hybrid of 2 of the main colors...
i sorted out all the stuff i have for this, and started narrowing down things by "how many and if i have" of everything... will deff be workin out a starting list tonight...
Good to hear.
As my build stands, one thing I gotta note is how unbelievable Oona's Prowler is in this list.
Turn 1 Thoughtseize
Turn 2 Prowler
Turn 3 swing for 3, then cast blightning
that's a very powerful start, and puts the opponent on the ropes right off the bat. They have to focus everything they have on staying alive, and due to the nature of the deck, it just doesn't let up.
So if I stick Sygg in, it will not be a prowler replacement. I think it would be -1 agony warp, -1 viscera dragger (since it's another 2-drop, and early blocker, and draws many cards 
And he can attack with a grixis charm for a card in a pinch... yea..
I want to figure out how to stick a 3rd sygg in there. Maybe -1 prowler... though I don't really want to remova prowlers.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Grixis Machine Head - Progress Report
Show
Under Discussion
Deck Stregnths
[indent]~Quick aggro decks and burn decks have a problem with this deck as we are able to apply pressure, kill early threats, and ruin their hand to the extent where they are topdecking, and thus underwhelming us.
~Control decks that don't draw loads of cards or topdeck cheap, huge, impossible-to-deal-with threats. So 5-c control and QnT gets wrecked, but Big Mana, should it come back, may cause problems if they can keep up with our speed*
*note - This deck isn't fast... It's very very proactive and aggressive. Almost everything is played aggressively; including removal. So rather than fast, it is quick on the draw to be highly disruptive.[/indent]
Deck Weaknesses
[indent]~HUGE creatures. Our removal doesn't say "kill". It is toughness-based removal, and so fat butts can cause us problems. The sideboard needs to contain responses to these creatures (like Deathmark  (Doran, bant junk, naya junk), Flame Javelin (Colossus, Demigod)), as well as protection from any of our colors.
~Massive card draw - A deck that isn't topdecking isn't being affected by our major strength, and so it is harder to overwhelm these decks. This is why fast, strong attackers like Oona's Prowler, unearth, and Demigod, as well as good reach are necessary, because these decks will be keeping up with us if they have lots of options. A good sideboard solution to this may be Mind Shatter  .[/indent]
Strategies and Synergies
[indent]~Depending on your match-up, it will either be a good idea to race the opponent with early Oona's Prowlers, or it may be better to hold off, cycle Draggers, and sit on your removal for a bit. Usually, the former is more successful, but at times, you might need to try for a slower game.
~One thing that is very good for staying alive is using Unearth in conjunction with Loxodon Warhammer; and it works. It almost always forces out removal, and since your critter was a bonus from the grave, it's card advantage, which is very helpful for this deck.
~Demigod of Revenge almost always seals the deal, as when he comes out, he almost always wins the game as the opponent is out of answers as their hand has been ripped apart and exhausted.[/indent]
Individual Cards
Sygg, River Cutthroat  - Best in decks running Lash Out/Incinerate for instant 3, damage, but that aside, a lot of out effects cause 3 damage - Sedraxis, Dragger, Prowler, Demigod, and Blightning. This is a great way to keep your hand full. In addtion, it's a 3-toughness 2 drop, so it's a decent blocker. He's making it into decklists, for the sake of testing, mainly, at the moment.
Excecutioner's Capsule  and Bone Splinters  are on the list of things to test. It turns out, 4-toughness critters are becoming a little too hot to handle. I think Splinters will take the cake here, due to black critters being someone prominent these days.
Determined as a result of discussion and/or testing
Keep in mind there was another thread before this one, so some of this comes from there.
[indent]~Land destruction dilutes the focus of the deck, but is a good sideboard option against decks that can't handle it, like QnT, 5-C Control, and Fae.
~ Lash Out  as a replacement for Incinerate as 2cc burn.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 2:32PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Sep 22, 2007
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I find he doesn't slow down the deck as I didn't actually remove any prowlers for him. You can still go Thought seize  into prowler into Blightning  . But then if you don't have a prowler but have a sygg then you can drop the sygg same thing if you don't have the blightning. He just has a lot of nice synergies and i think that that warrants his inclusion.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 2:37PM
#34
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I find he doesn't slow down the deck as I didn't actually remove any prowlers for him. You can still go Thought seize into prowler into Blightning . But then if you don't have a prowler but have a sygg then you can drop the sygg same thing if you don't have the blightning. He just has a lot of nice synergies and i think that that warrants his inclusion.
good to hear. post your list if you want. I wouldn't mind seeing what you've come up with.
EDIT: for a really cheap mana base, the U/R and B/U pain lands are all you really need to function, cuz islands screw with the demigod.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 3:27PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Sep 22, 2007
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Alright, though i kind of copied your mana base. Lands 4x Sulfurous springs  3x Underground river  2x Shivan reef  3x Graven cairns  2x Sunken ruins  3x Reflecting pool  2x Swamp  4x Crumbling necropolis  (i like the additional blue source of mana need to test more for what it should be but with bb in the side board I find that I end up taking to much self inflicted pain Creatures- 2x Sygg, river cutthroat  4x Sedraxis specter  3x Demigod of revenge  4x Oona's Prowler  3x Viscera dragger  Spells 4x Blightning 4x Lash out  4x Thought seize 3x Grixis charm  2x Agony warp  (I don't think it is as good with out bitter blossom tokens enabling 2 for 1ing but I am not sure yet.) 3x Loxodon warhammer  (helps sygg as well as all the other tasty targets in this deck.) Sb 4x Deathmark 3x Mind shatter  3x Flame javelin  2x Profane command  3x Bitter blossom  For the side board I almost want more profane commands but at the same time mind shatter is just beautiful against quick n' toast and anything that holds back cards. So far in testing against the white weenie deck the amount of rfg removal can cause a problem. Though that deck runs out its hand pretty quickly so it is not impossible to win just makes our unearth sub-theme less effective. Sorry about the lack of originality in this list I am still fine tuning from the list i started with (that being banshees list in the first post) for my meta/play style.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 3:40PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Aug 26, 2006
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Knollspine Machine Head--16 x Creatures  4 x *Sedraxis Specter  4 x *Demigod of Revenge  4 x *Viscera Dragger  3 x *Corpse Connoisseur  1 x *Squee, goblin Nabob  --21 x Spells  4 x *Knollspine Invocation  4 x *Blightning  4 x *Thoughtseize  4 x *Agony Warp  3 x *Grixis Charm  2 x *Loxodon Warhammer  --23 x Land  4 x Crumbling Necropolis  3 x Shivan Reef  2 x Underground River  2 x Sunken Ruins  4 x Graven Cairns  4 x Sulfurous Springs  4 x Reflecting Pool  Color me casual, but after I saw this thread I knew I could find the skeleton I needed to make my Grixix Knollspine Invocation  synergy deck. Basically, I control the board and tempo through discard and removal until I get out Invocation followed by a Connoisseur, which in turns pops the Squee into the yard. Any other extra Connoisseurs can plop extra Demigods into the yard, or Specters, so on, so forth. Unearth creatures work amazingly with Invocation, and everyone knows how Squee works with it. This is a basic list. I'm looking for room for Infest  s.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 4:16PM
#37
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Alright, though i kind of copied your mana base.
Lands
4x Sulfurous springs
3x Underground river
2x Shivan reef
3x Graven cairns
2x Sunken ruins
3x Reflecting pool
2x Swamp
4x Crumbling necropolis (i like the additional blue source of mana need to test more for what it should be but with bb in the side board I find that I end up taking to much self inflicted pain
Creatures-
2x Sygg, river cutthroat
4x Sedraxis specter
3x Demigod of revenge
4x Oona's Prowler
3x Viscera dragger
Spells
4x Blightning
4x Lash out
4x Thought seize
3x Grixis charm
2x Agony warp (I don't think it is as good with out bitter blossom tokens enabling 2 for 1ing but I am not sure yet.)
3x Loxodon warhammer (helps sygg as well as all the other tasty targets in this deck.)
Sb
4x Deathmark
3x Mind shatter
3x Flame javelin
2x Profane command
3x Bitter blossom
For the side board I almost want more profane commands but at the same time mind shatter is just beautiful against quick n' toast and anything that holds back cards.
So far in testing against the white weenie deck the amount of rfg removal can cause a problem. Though that deck runs out its hand pretty quickly so it is not impossible to win just makes our unearth sub-theme less effective.
Sorry about the lack of originality in this list I am still fine tuning from the list i started with (that being banshees list in the first post) for my meta/play style.
This looks real solid. I agree on Agony Warp, especially when your deck is littered with pain lands.
And no worries on copying this; I endorse it. I'm pushing for this to be an archtype of its own.
Do you find youself drawing enough Sygg with only 2 in the deck?
My mana base still has issues, but their not color issues, they're pain issues. That and every dual needs to add black. That is; shivan reef really sucks, I've come to realise. I think I just want 4 spring, 4 river, 6 filters, 3 pools, 3-4 necropolis, and go from there...
EDIT: and if Agony Warp falls out of lists because of pains (Like Graven Cairns not being able to cast it...), then blue will end up just being a splash for Specter and Charm, and the Charm has yet to wow me as it competes for the loaded 3-slot.
EDIT2: another note on Sygg: It gives us a reason to run Sedraxis over Hyppie.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 4:42PM
#38
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not entirely sure knollspine invocation should be here, but on one hand, it gives us a way to use uncounterable burn,(which can most often trigger sygg) and at the same time get unearth guys into the grave/make occasional backbreaking plays...
also its ability might get costly since it has to be the cc of w/e youre discarding, but the "x" is colorless, so that makes it easier to use in a 3 color deck...
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 4:53PM
#39
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Date Joined:
Aug 26, 2006
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not entirely sure knollspine invocation should be here, but on one hand, it gives us a way to use uncounterable burn,(which can most often trigger sygg) and at the same time get unearth guys into the grave/make occasional backbreaking plays...
also its ability might get costly since it has to be the cc of w/e youre discarding, but the "x" is colorless, so that makes it easier to use in a 3 color deck...
So you're with it or against it...? 
Regardless, I'm thinking my deck will be taking an entirely different direction from what's happening here. I just wanted to post something that I felt fit without cluttering the boards.
And Knollspine does add some strategy to this deck, especially if the Sygg is in play. You can essentially draw at the end of each turn (yours and theirs) if you time your damage right.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 6:19PM
#40
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Knollspine doesn't do what this deck is doing, even if it is good with Sygg. That's more of a control-oriented deck, and therefore belongs elsewhere. Not saying it's a bad idea; just saying it's not where this deck is headed.
Anyways... anyone gotten any more test results recently they'd like to share?
I wish I used MWS, but I haven't that kind of patience.
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