-Land- I've got 23; I've seen lists that go as far up as 25. Reflecting Pool is a bit of a mixed bag; sometimes it produces just more of the same color [where I'd prefer a basic or fixer land of the opposite color] Spectral is the only thing that really needs such early fixing, and sometimes that's not relevant. Windbrisk Heights' CipT can be a bit of a problem, but it's REALLY bomby - if my opponent ever lets me trigger it.
-Other Cards- I love the versatility of maindecked O-Rings. (If all my opponent's removal-worthy permanents are black and/or red, in go the Purges) Just recently put in the Lieges; haven't yet had much time to test with them.
I prefer Mind Stone over KotWO; KotWO seems too situational, 2 white can be a problem early, Mind Stone's draw helps.
Balefire Liege is a new addition; haven't yet had much time to test it.
Ajani Vengeant: I've rarely ever gotten Johnny V's ultimate off (when I do, I'm humming "Armageddon It" by Def Leppard, but that's neither here nor there. :P). As such, I try to Helix as soon as possible, but I often have to wait a turn to play the lockdown ability to get enough counters. The lockdown in and of itself often isn't relevant late-game.
-Sideboard- Celestial Purge, Burrenton Forge-Tender: Obvious choice; sometimes goes in for O-ring, maybe Liege or Path Guttural Response: Obvious use; what goes out depends on the style of the control deck - i.e. what maindeck cards are neutralized by it. Mogg Fanatic out, maybe.
Ajani Goldmane: good way to preemptively mess with Needle (sometimes, and the counter+vigilance+swing can put the game away quickly in the right situation (given a second time, out of Fallout range)
Elspeth: see Needle-messing; having a large one-creature pump has its own uses.
* With those two, I don't plan on them sticking around for their ultimates, either.
Fallout: Wrath versus other weenie decks; currently my most questionable sideboard choice IMHO.
I often know what I should sideboard in, just not what I should sideboard out.
It's late, so forgive me if this doesn't make too much sense...
You don't have the Knights that require double white, so cutting the reflecting pool could be fine. On the other hand, you realize the Heights are very good, so I would max their number.
Mind is good for what it does. On the other hand, maybe your problems with control come from not having those early knights. I find that the only way for me to win against control is to put a lot of pressure early on (without overextending), and the knights help.
When you do put some damage in, the AV lock down is good on something like a War Monk that could really turn the tide because of the lifelink.
I usually take Mogg out against control...
Wrath seems to me better than Fallout. You might as well kill your Lark to bring back a figure or two, or a figure and a knight... Also, I never had the chance, but why not Wrath against control? If they establish a Wall of Rev., a plumeveil, and a broodmate dragon, it seems hard for us to win. I have been tempted to wrath, since we can restart much more quickly that they can (and usually they have fewer win conditions). Is this heresy?
It's late, so forgive me if this doesn't make too much sense...You don't have the Knights that require double white, so cutting the reflecting pool could be fine.On the other hand, you realize the Heights are very good, so I would max their number.Mi
This guy looks interesting, but I'm not sure what to cut for it.
Maybe cut AV against aggro?
It would also be good against control I think, makes your spirits hit for 9 instead of three. Your first strike knights hit for 4 each...
Anyway, yeah, I am intrigued.
Maybe cut AV against aggro?It would also be good against control I think, makes your spirits hit for 9 instead of three. Your first strike knights hit for 4 each...Anyway, yeah, I am intrigued.
Went to a tournament yesterday in an unfamiliar area/metagame and decided to put together the best deck I could rather than just playing 'fun' homebrew jank like I usually do. I was working on extremely short notice, so no ordering or buying cards, just using what I had lying around.
As the deck was thrown together based more on what I could build with the cards I had than anything else, and finished 15 minutes before the tournament started, I had little to no experience with how to play the deck, sideboard choices, and what my good and bad matchups would be.
What surprised me is that the deck really felt right. At no point during the tournament did I feel I would have been better off with two-drop knights or without redcaps, and I'm pretty sure that four Ajanis and/or four SGC would have been too many. SGC is less powerful in this list because you really want to cast it at 7 mana, and I often would stick at 5-6; despite that, I'd be hard pressed to fit in any acceleration.
The removal is obviously pretty silly (I only own one Path and one Javelin), but I'll swear by the 1x Wrath 1x Coup. I would have lost several games without the MD sweepers. 2x Wrath may be better because of the mana problems but I didn't experience that issue during this particular tournament.
My sideboard, however, seemed pretty crap. Finks did approximately nothing, and Ricochet and Halo were underwhelming. The rest was okay.
I have a very bad memory so my tournament report will hardly be complete, but I'll run down my opponents and try to remember how I boarded. I'd like to hear what people think the right boarding decisions would have been.
Doran Rock (win 2-0) -1 Javelin -1 Blast -3 Redcap -1 Tender +1 Wrath +1 Command +2 Ring +2 Stillmoon
I mentally beat myself up for boarding out the Redcaps as he played Teeg turn 2 of game 2 (and I'd seen Teeg in the previous game and forgotten about it come sideboard time). I managed to draw the Path, but this was probably a wrong sideboard decision, right?
I'm pretty sure that's how I boarded or close to it, but I'm also pretty sure it should have been -1 Wrath or Blast, -3 Redcap. The cards I boarded in seem correct given my sideboard but were actually pretty bad overall.
This match was against my friend who was in the same situation as I was regarding deck experience and familiarity; he gave me the match win because he drew instead of winning first round and was pretty sure that he wouldn't be able to finish highly due to his inexperience with his rather complex deck. He ended up with a 1-1-3 record (the loss being his concession to me) so he was probably right, but probably would have top 8ed if matches were untimed.
No idea how to board for this match, really. I didn't see Scion game 1 so I didn't put in mass removal, but it came out game 2. Austere would have probably been nice since it's hard to stutter and kills Blossom. Do you board out O-Ring here since it's Cryptic bait, or board more in because maybe stalling their BB for a turn or two and baiting a CC is worth a card?
B/W Tokens (draw 1-1-1)
-1 Tender -1 Harbinger -1 Path -1 Ring -1 Jav -1 Blast +2 Galepowder +2 Stillmoon +1 Wrath +1 Command
Austere is pretty hot here. Destroy all Anthems and Scullers? Or if my board is light enough, destroy all tokens too? Sign me up. Galepowder is great as well, trading for four tokens and doing other fun stuff.
Naya Ramp (win 2-0)
This guy's deck was basically ridiculous mana dorks (Bloom Tender and the guy that turns 1 into RGW) into Banefire. I wanted to live the dream and Ricochet a Banefire for 10, but my Fanatics just kept suiciding into his mana dorks and wouldn't let it happen. Damn Fanatics.
She got relatively slow draws, I got fast draws, and I out-aggroed her with Figures and sealed both games with Javelin. It was pretty comical and luck-sacky.
-1 Wrath -1 Ring +2 Finks
I remember for sure I only boarded in two finks, but I don't remember exactly what I boarded out. Path stayed in for Demigod, I guess.
Mirror match (win 2-1)
I was pretty sure I'd lose this match as I'd watched him play after winning the previous round and his deck looked much stronger than mine. However, I consistently drew more gas than him and was better able to play it; his deck's modifications (manlands and Anthems) allowed me to out-tempo and out-threat him.
-1 Wrath -1 Blast +2 Galepowder for game 2 I think, but I don't really remember. I know I boarded out the Wrath and he boarded his in. Game 3 I went -1 Fanatic -1 Harbinger +2 Stillmoon in order to help swing past his annoying boarded Paladin en-Vec .
Finals: B/W tokens (same guy), loss 0-2
Nothing much more to say about this match, except this time draws were in his favor instead of mine, and I made at least one amazingly bad play that I shall not recount.
Went to a tournament yesterday in an unfamiliar area/metagame and decided to put together the best deck I could rather than just playing 'fun' homebrew jank like I usually do. I was working on extremely short notice, so no ordering or buying cards, j
It's late, so forgive me if this doesn't make too much sense...
You don't have the Knights that require double white, so cutting the reflecting pool could be fine. On the other hand, you realize the Heights are very good, so I would max their number.
Mind is good for what it does. On the other hand, maybe your problems with control come from not having those early knights. I find that the only way for me to win against control is to put a lot of pressure early on (without overextending), and the knights help.
When you do put some damage in, the AV lock down is good on something like a War Monk that could really turn the tide because of the lifelink.
I usually take Mogg out against control...
Wrath seems to me better than Fallout. You might as well kill your Lark to bring back a figure or two, or a figure and a knight... Also, I never had the chance, but why not Wrath against control? If they establish a Wall of Rev., a plumeveil, and a broodmate dragon, it seems hard for us to win. I have been tempted to wrath, since we can restart much more quickly that they can (and usually they have fewer win conditions). Is this heresy?
Hey, maybe I can eventually cut the Reflecting Pools to free up slots for a couple more Heights. Yeah, the AV lockdown is quite useful on decks that use a few large beaters (such as War Monk). Ironically, the large-beater decks in this format aren't straight aggro; most the aggro decks in this format are weenie aggro with too many guys to try and lock down...but AV is definitely useful when the big guys show up. Yeah, I often take Mogg out against control myself; often for the Guttural Responses as I discussed in my sideboard section.
Knights I may use as part of my versus-control sideboard package.
AJM]Maybe cut AV against aggro?
It would also be good against control I think, makes your spirits hit for 9 instead of three. Your first strike knights hit for 4 each...
Anyway, yeah, I am intrigued.
Maybe. Currently, I find myself going from 4 Vengeant to 2 Vengeant, 1 Elspeth, 1 Goldmane versu wrote:
Maybe cut AV against aggro?
It would also be good against control I think, makes your spirits hit for 9 instead of three. Your first strike knights hit for 4 each...
Anyway, yeah, I am intrigued.[/quote] Maybe. Currently, I find myself going from 4 Vengeant to 2 Vengeant, 1 Elspeth, 1 Goldmane versus aggro
Hey, maybe I can eventually cut the Reflecting Pools to free up slots for a couple more Heights.Yeah, the AV lockdown is quite useful on decks that use a few large beaters (such as War Monk). Ironically, the large-beater decks in this format aren't s
Vince from MTGSal]Good matchups: Red deck wins, Black/Red Aggro, Random.deck, Merfolk Matchups slightly in your Favour: Doran, Elves, Esper-Lark Bad Matchups: 5cc, Faeries, B/W tokens, Kithkin variants, G/W Overrun
Would confirm this matchup assessment.
The common theme in Vince's sideboard suggestions seems to be: Stillmoon Cavalier, Wrath of God, Lapse of Certainty
I only have 1x Stillmoon and 2x Wrath around - my T2 tournament day is Tuesday wrote:
Good matchups: Red deck wins, Black/Red Aggro, Random.deck, Merfolk Matchups slightly in your Favour: Doran, Elves, Esper-Lark Bad Matchups: 5cc, Faeries, B/W tokens, Kithkin variants, G/W Overrun[/quote] Would confirm this matchup assessment.
The common theme in Vince's sideboard suggestions seems to be: Stillmoon Cavalier, Wrath of God, Lapse of Certainty
I only have 1x Stillmoon and 2x Wrath around - my T2 tournament day is Tuesday; any cards I *order* now wouldn't be in on time For similar reasons, I can't yet be running as many Windbrisk Heights as I'd like.
Then again, running 1x and 2x might help me find space in the sideboard.
I can see Wrath being really helpful versus Doran and Elves, since it's likely I'll run very low on spot-removal ammo in those matchups.
My SB changed to: SB: 1 [LRW] Oblivion Ring SB: 4 [CFX] Celestial Purge SB: 4 [SHM] Guttural Response SB: 2 [R] Wrath of God SB: 1 [LRW] Burrenton Forge-Tender SB: 1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant SB: 1 [LRW] Ajani Goldmane SB: 1 [EVE] Stillmoon Cavalier
What could go to make room for the Lapse of Certainty's? The Guttural Responses? (Also may go to 3 Vengeant 1 Goldmane mainboard, freeing THAT slot)
Would confirm this matchup assessment.The common theme in Vince's sideboard suggestions seems to be: Stillmoon Cavalier, Wrath of God, Lapse of CertaintyI only have 1x Stillmoon and 2x Wrath around - my T2 tournament day is Tuesday; any cards I *orde
Vince from MTGS again]@KingAlanI: Lapse is generally much better than Guttural as it does roughly the same thing (forces through stuff) AND it also slows down badstuff like Cruel Ultimatum, Broodmate Dragon, Wrath of God.
Lapse works in the same way as gutteral in the sense that the opponent's counterspell is kinda useless once the important thing you tried to force through has resolved, the only exception is Cryptic Command which can still tap your guys down next turn/bounce stuff.
Although Lapse costs more mana, you save your gutterals/lapses for the late game or to deliver the "final blow" where you have such extra mana most of the time, plus, off a Heights they cost the same
Ah wrote:
@KingAlanI: Lapse is generally much better than Guttural as it does roughly the same thing (forces through stuff) AND it also slows down badstuff like Cruel Ultimatum, Broodmate Dragon, Wrath of God.
Lapse works in the same way as gutteral in the sense that the opponent's counterspell is kinda useless once the important thing you tried to force through has resolved, the only exception is Cryptic Command which can still tap your guys down next turn/bounce stuff.
Although Lapse costs more mana, you save your gutterals/lapses for the late game or to deliver the "final blow" where you have such extra mana most of the time, plus, off a Heights they cost the same[/quote] Ah; I had seen the counters as a stalling tool. I like how I wouldn't be restricted to hitting blue instants, though.
Would Lapse be instead of Guttural or in addition to Guttural?
Sure, it will suck having to face another Cryptic/Cruel/whatever. However, I could plan for it - use up cards [so I don't have to discard 'em], sac creatures [Siege-Gang], swing-with-everything (even if I'd lose some d00ds to blockers), et cetera.
Ah; I had seen the counters as a stalling tool.I like how I wouldn't be restricted to hitting blue instants, though.Would Lapse be instead of Guttural or in addition to Guttural?Sure, it will suck having to face another Cryptic/Cruel/whatever. Howeve
The only complaint I had with the main deck was that drawing Harbinger or BFT was often a total waste. I'd like to move them to SB.
In the board, the Finks were useless, so I'll replace them with the plan they replaced: Fulminator Mage. This should be solid for a 5CC board strategy so stuff like Halo and Ricochet, which is pretty mediocre anyway, can be cut.
The only thing that worries me about Mage is that the mana involved might be rough. I'd have to up my mountain count as Mage is more crucial to get out early than Spectral IMO.
I'm pretty lost on what to put in the remaining two slots. I don't think I want anything that sits high on the curve like additional Redcaps, Larks, Ajani, or SGC. A few options come to mind:
+2 Stillmoon. He's great against most decks in the meta and probably as worthy of MD status as the singleton BFT many lists run. Leaves spots in the sideboard, probably for some combination of Wispmare, another AC, and Ingot Chewer.
+1 Wrath of God, +1 Oblivion Ring or Austere Command. I don't really feel that more mass removal is needed, but it's always nice to have outs. Leaves a free slot or two in the board.
+0-2 Oblivion Ring, +0-2 Puncture Blast. I'd probably jump at the chance to add Path or even Javelin, but these third-choice removals don't really attract me and the amount of removal has felt pretty good already.
+4 Mind Stone, -2 Plains. The thing that bothers me here is that I'm pretty sure I'd end up sideboarding out the Mind Stones in many matchups, leaving my manabase rather subpar. Colorless mana isn't really as useful as I'd like. Cycling for 3 is great, though. I'll probably test this first and just use restraint to keep from siding out more than 1 stone except when I'm sure I can handle the loss.
Another option on top of any of those is removing a Ranger for another higher-cost spell. I'd probably do this if I picked up another SGC. Maybe -1 Ranger +1 Ajani is right. I don't know.
Trying to tune this up a bit...Limits: no Elspeth, 2 Stillmoon, 2 SGC, 1 Path, 1 Javelin, 3 PrairieDepending on whether my card-sharing partner plays 5CC or not, 0-4 Pools, 0-2 Banefire, 1-2 Martial Coup, 2-4 Wrath, 0-4 Fallout[sblock=old deck][deck=
Fight to the Death- RW Instant Destroy all blocking creatures and all blocked creatures.
Seems pretty good to me, but not sure if it is needed. I'm not sure that Glory of Warfare will be that relevant when noone even bothers playing Anthem. That being said, I've played against someone who uses Mirror Entity to great effect. It is almost an auto-win out of heights, and if he Martial Coups with Lark on teh board and that in the yard, he wins if they don't have removal within a turn.
As far as match-ups go: Esper Lark seems like a horrible matchup to me, I had no chance against it the one time I faced it (Fulmi mages kept me off mana while he drew his deck, sower/wrathed all my guys, dropped a lark, and won). Alternatively, I am something like 8-0 against kithkin in matches.
Card I think will be the most relevant from ARB:[sblock= Spoiler]Fight to the Death- RWInstantDestroy all blocking creatures and all blocked creatures.[/Sblock]Seems pretty good to me, but not sure if it is needed. I'm not sure that Glory of Warfare
T1 Heights T2 Mind Stone T3 Glory of Warfare T4 Siege Gang (13 Standing Board position on my Opponent's turn T5 Swing for 13, pitch for 8.
That is pretty good.
T1 HeightsT2 Mind StoneT3 Glory of WarfareT4 Siege Gang (13 Standing Board position on my Opponent's turnT5 Swing for 13, pitch for 8. That is pretty good.
Glory of Warfare is worse than Glorious Anthem, for the record. In a big way.
Duh. If it cost 3, then it'd be worth looking at.
People who are heralding GoW as "what RW tokens needed" are probably wrong, as Anthem + Ajani G is just better.
Duh. If it cost 3, then it'd be worth looking at.People who are heralding GoW as "what RW tokens needed" are probably wrong, as Anthem + Ajani G is just better.
He's probably for a different deck than this one, but still not out of the realm of possibility.
Any thoughts on [c]Cerodon Yearling[/c] vs. either Knight?He's probably for a different deck than this one, but still not out of the realm of possibility.
People who are heralding GoW as "what RW tokens needed" are probably wrong, as Anthem + Ajani G is just better.
Even if it cost 3, it wouldn't.
Contrary to popular belief, high power is what you need on your opponent's turn. High toughness is what you need on yours.
Even if it cost 3, it wouldn't.Contrary to popular belief, high power is what you need on your opponent's turn. High toughness is what you need on yours.
Round 1 (Some random control deck) [Won 2-0]: I don't think this deck was complete junk, more like hit-or-miss. And ti missed (bad draws?)
Round 2 (B/G Rock) [Won 2-1]: Hard-fought, just pulled it off. Was able to keep up the removal pressure - often Wraths for the regular creatures, Paths for the manlands. I recall Planeswalkers being stalling removal magnet,s in addition to gettign a couple abilities off.
Round 3 (R/W something) [Won 2-1]: First game I lost, in large part because I couldn't keep up with early Banefires. This deck was quite creature-light, which made my sideboarding calls easier.
Balefire Liege was useful for lifegain (gave me some breathing room, and preventing Feudkiller's Verdict from making d00ds), and for being a removal magnet (I did Lark it back a few times) Pushed through the win with Ajani Vengeant and assorted tokens swinging.
Oh yeah, and a powered-up Figure of Destiny Had Ranger'ed for Figure and Burrenton Forge-Tender, Forge-tender saved Figure from some burn and I was able to amp it up in short order.
I recall seeing Mountain, Plains, Ghitu Encampment, Rugged Prairie, Mutavault, Feudkiller's Verdict, Martial Coup, Banefire, Incinerate, Flame Javelin, Ajani Vengeant [Got my own Johnny V out from under Heights once, to kill his with style points.]
Round 4 (Mistmeadow Witch/Bloom Tender) [Lost 0-2] Got steamrolled in both the first game and the second. Mainly, I just couldn't keep up with the CA; the threats I was able to pump out were easily dealt with. Stuff was blinked out of the way of removal.
Didn't play as well as I could have (late in the evening, and time running out, I think that may have had something to do with it.), but I don't exactly see what I *could* have done, the way that deck had been running
Went 3 and 1 with this.Round 1 (Some random control deck) [Won 2-0]:I don't think this deck was complete junk, more like hit-or-miss. And ti missed (bad draws?)Round 2 (B/G Rock) [Won 2-1]:Hard-fought, just pulled it off.Was able to keep up the remov
Or... they can cast it on their own turn to kill your guys.
Either way, you almost never want +2/+0 instead of +1/+1.
I agree completely. I never said it would be a good card if it was +2/+0 on their turn, and +0/+2 on your own. My point is that the card being an instant is largely irrelevant if it were made that way - a sorcery would get the job done there.
The card in its current incarnation does help protect against sorcery speed sweepers - but instant speed sweepers still wreck your team.
That said, the card is still insanely powerful in the aggro mirrors. But then agian, so are cards like balefire liege.
I agree completely. I never said it would be a good card if it was +2/+0 on their turn, and +0/+2 on your own. My point is that the card being an instant is largely irrelevant if it were made that way - a sorcery would get the job done there.The card
I agree completely. I never said it would be a good card if it was +2/+0 on their turn, and +0/+2 on your own. My point is that the card being an instant is largely irrelevant if it were made that way - a sorcery would get the job done there.
The card in its current incarnation does help protect against sorcery speed sweepers - but instant speed sweepers still wreck your team.
That said, the card is still insanely powerful in the aggro mirrors. But then agian, so are cards like balefire liege.
So are Glorious Anthem and Ajani Goldmane... so why would anyone play Story of Noobfare over those cards?
So are Glorious Anthem and Ajani Goldmane... so why would anyone play Story of Noobfare over those cards?
Is "story of noobfare" referring to Glory of Warfare?
I already run Goldmanes, so I'm forgoing Anthem
From ARB, I like Cerodon Yearling, perhaps it over Fanatic depending on meta.
Is "story of noobfare" referring to Glory of Warfare?I already run Goldmanes, so I'm forgoing AnthemFrom ARB, I like Cerodon Yearling, perhaps it over Fanatic depending on meta.
I accel with Mind Stones...do you suggest putting Yearling in for those?
Anyway, in my meta, I seem to rarely run into weenies that can be killed with Fanatic, and 1 to the dome post-Fallout isn't all that impressive.
I accel with Mind Stones...do you suggest putting Yearling in for those?Anyway, in my meta, I seem to rarely run into weenies that can be killed with Fanatic, and 1 to the dome post-Fallout isn't all that impressive. :)
Ceradon Yearling is not as good as any of the -power first strikers we run, because it doesn't do anything late game, where one can draw a land and one can gain us life. Yeah it has haste, but it trades insteads of stymieing attacks and it's basically just a vigilant bear, and i'd rather have the much more relevent First Strike on the board.
Also, if everyone response to Glory of Warfare is "HA HA Sucks with Fallout!" then that is basically the same "Dies to Removal" argument that never fails to crop up whenever a new bomb comes out. Saying this card sucks because of another card in the format is just silly, and even then, in this deck, its likely to make a bit of difference as far as pushing them to the red zone with everything.
And speaking of removal, I am earnestly play testing Fight to the Death , and there are a few situations where it is basically Terminate , or more accurately, Bone Splinters , both of which are powerful effects. It greatly improves the BW Tokens and Jund Tokens match ups, which are big in my Meta, as well as hating on homebrew Warhammer.dec that has been coming every week.
[c]Ceradon Yearling[/c] is not as good as any of the -power first strikers we run, because it doesn't do anything late game, where one can draw a land and one can gain us life. Yeah it has haste, but it trades insteads of stymieing attacks and it's b
Hello. I am someone who is starting to build Red/White Kithkin and thinking of converting my partialy built deck to Boat Brew. I was just wondering if this deck play better or worse than R/W Kithkin? Also, has anyone started using Cerodon Yearling ? I just thought it may be a way to speed this deck up. It has vigilance and haste. Its a great drop turn two and it has great revelliark synergy. Anyone using this or thinking of it?
Hello. I am someone who is starting to build Red/White Kithkin and thinking of converting my partialy built deck to Boat Brew. I was just wondering if this deck play better or worse than R/W Kithkin?Also, has anyone started using [c]Cerodon Yearling[
Its not that boat brew is necessarily bad in this format. Its more that it just doesn't get much from ARB and people are experimenting with all the new fancy things.
I expect boat brew, in some form or fashion, to continue to be a player in the new format, even if it isn't as dominant as it was before.
Its not that boat brew is necessarily bad in this format. Its more that it just doesn't get much from ARB and people are experimenting with all the new fancy things.I expect boat brew, in some form or fashion, to continue to be a player in the new fo
I want to be able to beat every top deck out there are the moment, but I feel like I am missing out on vexxing shusher or gut response. Only problem is, the only thing I can see taking out is the o-rings, but then my deck just screams "Get raped by enchantments and artifacts"
I'm going to regionals up in minnesota and I'm having a really really tough time trying to figure out what I want for my sideboard. Here's my deck/sb// Lands 4 [LRW] Windbrisk Heights 4 [10E] Battlefield Forge 4 [EVE] Rugged Prairie 2 [U
I want to be able to beat every top deck out there are the moment, but I feel like I am missing out on vexxing shusher or gut response. Only problem is, the only thing I can see taking out is the o-rings, but then my deck just screams "Get raped by enchantments and artifacts"
What artifacts/enchantments are you concerned about? Many decks have dropped Naturalize-like cards altogether - many white decks have dropped Wispmare. Glorious Anthems in BW Tokens are a problem for this deck. You can take them all out at once with Tempest of Light . However, they've now added Zealous Persecution to their arsenal - big trouble for the most common Boat Brew decks. To combat that you could add your own Anthems, Goldmane, or both. But maybe there are other specific artifacts/enchantments that worry you.
What artifacts/enchantments are you concerned about? Many decks have dropped Naturalize-like cards altogether - many white decks have dropped Wispmare. Glorious Anthems in BW Tokens are a problem for this deck. You can take them all out at once wi
I also have them in there for instant planeswalker kill. But I used to mainboard ajani G untill about a week ago, and then I finally caved in and took him out. I'm just wondering what I should replace the o-rings with.-
I also have them in there for instant planeswalker kill. But I used to mainboard ajani G untill about a week ago, and then I finally caved in and took him out. I'm just wondering what I should replace the o-rings with.-
I want to be able to beat every top deck out there are the moment, but I feel like I am missing out on vexxing shusher or gut response. Only problem is, the only thing I can see taking out is the o-rings, but then my deck just screams "Get raped by enchantments and artifacts"
if you are that worried about enchantment/artifacts..... then why not run Duergar Hedge-Mage you can fit him in by replacing the reflecting pools with mountains.... still a 3 cost although you are more likely to hit the enchantment than the artifact....
I do have a random question about this deck however, why do i keep seeing stillmoon in the board? he works against token, boatbrew, half of blightning, can't be blocked by over half of 5 color control....
the only thing I can reason is that it is expected to die to a mog fanatic vs boatbrew or blightning.... perhaps I am wrong....
if you are that worried about enchantment/artifacts..... then why not run [c]Duergar Hedge-Mage[/c] you can fit him in by replacing the reflecting pools with mountains.... still a 3 cost although you are more likely to hit the enchantment than the ar
if you are that worried about enchantment/artifacts..... then why not run Duergar Hedge-Mage you can fit him in by replacing the reflecting pools with mountains.... still a 3 cost although you are more likely to hit the enchantment than the artifact....
I do have a random question about this deck however, why do i keep seeing stillmoon in the board? he works against token, boatbrew, half of blightning, can't be blocked by over half of 5 color control....
the only thing I can reason is that it is expected to die to a mog fanatic vs boatbrew or blightning.... perhaps I am wrong....
I ran Forgetender and Stillmoon MD when the 5CC-Wall deck was brand new - Forgetender helped more than Stillmoon. But I was running Vengeant (not Goldmane), and no Anthems - if you can get Stillmoon out of range of Volcanic Fallout he'd be outstanding against 5CC.
I ran Forgetender and Stillmoon MD when the 5CC-Wall deck was brand new - Forgetender helped more than Stillmoon. But I was running Vengeant (not Goldmane), and no Anthems - if you can get Stillmoon out of range of Volcanic Fallout he'd be outstandi
Well I used to run them. Believe it or not this deck originally started out as the eventide r/w untap theme deck. Then I slowly worked it to this. I used to run glorious anthems and ajani goldmanes and they just didn't work out well enough. But I'm still looking for opinions on whether or not people think I should throw in guts.
Well I used to run them. Believe it or not this deck originally started out as the eventide r/w untap theme deck. Then I slowly worked it to this. I used to run glorious anthems and ajani goldmanes and they just didn't work out well enough. But I
Well I used to run them. Believe it or not this deck originally started out as the eventide r/w untap theme deck. Then I slowly worked it to this. I used to run glorious anthems and ajani goldmanes and they just didn't work out well enough. But I'm still looking for opinions on whether or not people think I should throw in guts.
I always did great with Goldmane against most decks. In the 5CC thread players opine that Ajani V. is not the threat he used to be - Celestial Purge, ya know. And Pithing Needle, which of course can shut off Ajani G too - if it isn't dropped before the guy appears, guessing Vengeant. Anthem would seem to be good also, again, considering BW Tokens Anthems, and their Zealous Persecution. BW Tokens is a deck you know you'll see a lot of.
Then there's the version of Boat Brew that runs 2 WoG main and 2 SB. We put that deck together at our local card shop to be part of the gauntlet, and everyone who has played it has gotten great use out of the WoG, and sided in the other 2 eagerly second game. It's not too hard to make sure a WoG is to your advantage, but it is only temporary relief from tokens, especially if they have a Bitterblossom in play.
I always did great with Goldmane against most decks. In the 5CC thread players opine that Ajani V. is not the threat he used to be - Celestial Purge, ya know. And Pithing Needle, which of course can shut off Ajani G too - if it isn't dropped before
Wrath is an easy card to side in, and it often appears to be doing a good job, when it's really not.
Wrath lets you get out of doing tricky combat math at the expense of reducing your ability to play effectively in the first place.
All in all, though, I don't think Wrath is even worth SBing now even where you used to. WB Tokens will not even blink, and their use of ZP will be a huge hit. You will be much more reliant on guys like Figure of Destiny in that matchup.
Wrath is an easy card to side in, and it often appears to be doing a good job, when it's really not.Wrath lets you get out of doing tricky combat math at the expense of reducing your ability to play effectively in the first place. All in all, though,
But we're not an all out agro deck. It's not too unreasonable to put out a figure, a turn 3 drop an orchid for 4 mana, wrath the board, to follow it up with another figure, next turn SGC, revilar, or eos for huge board advantage after they just flooded.
Anyways, I think I'm going to take out the oblivion rings for gut responses. I feel shushers will just get bounced off the board or killed to take them over guts, so I will just be going with guts!
But we're not an all out agro deck. It's not too unreasonable to put out a figure, a turn 3 drop an orchid for 4 mana, wrath the board, to follow it up with another figure, next turn SGC, revilar, or eos for huge board advantage after they just floo
But we're not an all out agro deck. It's not too unreasonable to put out a figure, a turn 3 drop an orchid for 4 mana, wrath the board, to follow it up with another figure, next turn SGC, revilar, or eos for huge board advantage after they just flooded.
Anyways, I think I'm going to take out the oblivion rings for gut responses. I feel shushers will just get bounced off the board or killed to take them over guts, so I will just be going with guts!
This deck wins by dominating board positions. Consequently, it is just as badly hurt by Wraths as every other Aggro deck.
Playing guys, just to Wrath the board and play out the same guys again is actually gaining you nothing; you could have just played tightly, attacked into their board, let them make trades, and then play your creatures again. (And note, Figure is actually not a good post-Wrath play, which is why it actually turned out to suck in Reveillark decks despite it's ability to be recovered).
Furthermore, every Aggro deck in the format has protective measures (both in terms of cards they include and way they play) for Wrath. Since they typically get the first chance to play after Wrath resolves, they're going to be ahead of you.
Because Wrath works against the central principle in your deck, it is only in situations that you shouldn't let arise that Wrath becomes a keynote card. Smarter options like Ajani Goldmane will often create better no-win situations for your opponent or craft one-sided versions of the symmetrical Wrath.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter in the slightest whether you're all-out Aggro or not. What matters is whether you are Aggro at all.
This deck wins by dominating board positions. Consequently, it is just as badly hurt by Wraths as every other Aggro deck. Playing guys, just to Wrath the board and play out the same guys again is actually gaining you nothing; you could have just play
Not liking this deck so much, and although I don't have specifics, something doesn't feel right with this deck anymore. As I said in the general section of the forum.
Not liking this deck so much, and although I don't have specifics, something doesn't feel right with this deck anymore. As I said in the general section of the forum.
Playing guys, just to Wrath the board and play out the same guys again is actually gaining you nothing; you could have just played tightly, attacked into their board, let them make trades, and then play your creatures again. (And note, Figure is actually not a good post-Wrath play, which is why it actually turned out to suck in Reveillark decks despite it's ability to be recovered).
Figure hardly sucks in Boat Brew.
MrIndigo wrote:
Wrath is an easy card to side in, and it often appears to be doing a good job, when it's really not.
Wrath lets you get out of doing tricky combat math at the expense of reducing your ability to play effectively in the first place.
Wasn't sure I wanted to debate WoG again... then I realized that I really don't want to debate whether it really is good, or just feels good, but is really bad for me! :P
Figure hardly sucks in Boat Brew. Wasn't sure I wanted to debate WoG again... then I realized that I really don't want to debate whether it really is good, or just feels good, but is really bad for me! :P
Figure is a great early play - he can just put so much pressure on the control decks and get them to 10 life very quickly if they can't find an answer to him.
He also gives you a 4/4 in the aggro mirrors.
However, he does indeed suck to return off of a lark trigger. Pretty much the worst.
Figure is a great early play - he can just put so much pressure on the control decks and get them to 10 life very quickly if they can't find an answer to him.He also gives you a 4/4 in the aggro mirrors.However, he does indeed suck to return off of a
Figure is a great early play - he can just put so much pressure on the control decks and get them to 10 life very quickly if they can't find an answer to him.
He also gives you a 4/4 in the aggro mirrors.
However, he does indeed suck to return off of a lark trigger. Pretty much the worst.
How do you guys mulligan your hands? Can you give me some controversial hands that you would say are argueably mulliable, and why you would/wouldn't do so.
Also, if you get an opening hand with a windbrisk, plains, rugged praire, figure, knight of meadowgrain. How do you open up.
Do you go turn 1 windbrisk, turn 2 figure/knight, turn 3 spectral
or
turn 1 plains figure, turn 2 windbrisk and pump figure with plains, turn 3 spectral.
Assume this is game one and you do not know what your opponent is playing.
How do you guys mulligan your hands? Can you give me some controversial hands that you would say are argueably mulliable, and why you would/wouldn't do so.Also, if you get an opening hand with a windbrisk, plains, rugged praire, figure, knight of me
Also, if you get an opening hand with a windbrisk, plains, rugged praire, figure, knight of meadowgrain. How do you open up.
Do you go turn 1 windbrisk, turn 2 figure/knight, turn 3 spectral
or
turn 1 plains figure, turn 2 windbrisk and pump figure with plains, turn 3 spectral.
Assume this is game one and you do not know what your opponent is playing.
T1 Plains, figure T2 Windbrisk, pump figure, swing T3 Prairie, then just swing. If they try to burn it, then you pump, but if you try to pump first they'll just kill it in response (Magma Spray, etc.). If they're tapped out, though, or have no red mana up you can probably safely pump before swinging.
If you T3 Spectral with a 2/2 Figure out already, you're just going to cry when they drop a Fallout/Infest next turn...
T1 Plains, figureT2 Windbrisk, pump figure, swingT3 Prairie, then just swing. If they try to burn it, then you pump, but if you try to pump first they'll just kill it in response (Magma Spray, etc.). If they're tapped out, though, or have no red ma
Free board presence is much better than board presence you have to pay for.
If you have the mana to make him huge, sure, go for it. But this format is far too fast for that.
Free board presence is much better than board presence you have to pay for.If you have the mana to make him huge, sure, go for it. But this format is far too fast for that.
T1 Plains, figure T2 Windbrisk, pump figure, swing T3 Prairie, then just swing. If they try to burn it, then you pump, but if you try to pump first they'll just kill it in response (Magma Spray, etc.). If they're tapped out, though, or have no red mana up you can probably safely pump before swinging.
If you T3 Spectral with a 2/2 Figure out already, you're just going to cry when they drop a Fallout/Infest next turn...
I think this is quite right. But by turn 3, you will already know what is he playing. If it is definetly something without sweepers (and you won't eat a broken ambitions), you can play your procession to try windbrisk next turn. Otherwise just pump figure at EOT, I guess.
I think this is quite right. But by turn 3, you will already know what is he playing. If it is definetly something without sweepers (and you won't eat a broken ambitions), you can play your procession to try windbrisk next turn. Otherwise just pump f
Interesting, so you guys always want to pump figure to 4/4 turn 3?
I wouldn't say always, but it's generally a good play.
It's a fairly reasonable power:mana investment still, and it keeps it a relevant threat. Additionally, it brings it out of a certain chunk of the available removal's range.
I wouldn't say always, but it's generally a good play.It's a fairly reasonable power:mana investment still, and it keeps it a relevant threat. Additionally, it brings it out of a certain chunk of the available removal's range.
So this is the current list i am running and planning on taking to regionals. I dont have much play testing in with bw tokens so i am needing some input on sideboard decisions and main deck decisions. I like having the incinerates main deck because its extra damage as well as spot removal early game if need be.
I play R/W Kithkin, but I have had an interest in this deck. Does anyone think that Fight to the Death from ARB may be a good Sb option against opposing aggro decks? It can clear the field and help you sac your Lark and get more creatures into play
I play R/W Kithkin, but I have had an interest in this deck. Does anyone think that Fight to the Death from ARB may be a good Sb option against opposing aggro decks? It can clear the field and help you sac your Lark and get more creatures into play
So this is the current list i am running and planning on taking to regionals. I dont have much play testing in with bw tokens so i am needing some input on sideboard decisions and main deck decisions. I like having the incinerates main deck because its extra damage as well as spot removal early game if need be.
Even if sweepers like Wrath and Fallout were good in this deck (and they're not), 8 is massively overkill. I'd consider Glorious Anthem or Ajani Goldmane or Windborn Muse in the board over them.
I would run only one or two Wispmare; you can tutor and recur them fairly easily. I would run the full 4 Stillmoon Cavalier for tokens.
I think you want at least 2 Burrenton Forge-Tender in your SB.
Even if sweepers like Wrath and Fallout were good in this deck (and they're not), 8 is massively overkill. I'd consider Glorious Anthem or Ajani Goldmane or Windborn Muse in the board over them.I would run only one or two Wispmare; you can tutor and
I would run the full 4 Stillmoon Cavalier for tokens.
I have loved the Stillmoon in the past. But now that Zealous persecution is out, I feel their value has decreased significantly in that match up, don't you think?
I have loved the Stillmoon in the past. But now that Zealous persecution is out, I feel their value has decreased significantly in that match up, don't you think?
I have loved the Stillmoon in the past. But now that Zealous persecution is out, I feel their value has decreased significantly in that match up, don't you think?
I agree with this. Although I would say that this means you should run the full 4 or zero, so you are effected less by ZP either way. Stillmoons and anthems could be good also.
I agree with this. Although I would say that this means you should run the full 4 or zero, so you are effected less by ZP either way. Stillmoons and anthems could be good also.
I have loved the Stillmoon in the past. But now that Zealous persecution is out, I feel their value has decreased significantly in that match up, don't you think?
Their value has certainly decreased in that matchup.
That said, a creature that blocks and kills all of their junk or swings for big-hits unimpeded, and can only be killed by the sweeper they want to save for your Spectrals is still pretty good.
It's not invincible, but it's probably the best card available for the matchup.l
Their value has certainly decreased in that matchup. That said, a creature that blocks and kills all of their junk or swings for big-hits unimpeded, and can only be killed by the sweeper they want to save for your Spectrals is still pretty good.It's
I took this deck to the Sacramento regionals over the weekend. I put it together the night before because I really didn't think that my GB elves deck was going to do very well. I had never played a game with it before my first round, which kind of sucked. That being said, I did much better with it than I expected, and really really enjoyed it. This is the list I took:
3x Rangeer of Eos 1x Flamekin Harbinger 4x Reveillark 4x Knight of the White Orchid 4x Figure of Destiny 4x Siege-Gang Commander
2x Ajani Vengeant 2x Glory of Warfare 4x Path to Exile 4x Flame Javelin 4x Spectral Procession
3x Wrath of God 3x Kitchen Finks 1x Burrenton Forge-Tender 2x Banefire 2x Story Circle 4x Celestial Purge
Overall the deck did really well -- I noticed myself making plenty of play mistakes, which I chalked up mainly to inexperience. None of them gamebreaking, but I wasn't playing as efficiently as I could have been with a bit of practice.
First round I went up against GW Tokens, which I beat pretty easily. Glory of Warfare out from under a Heights is a pretty big beating.
Second round I went up against that silly Font of Mythos turbo-fog deck. Between SGC, Flame Javelin, Ajani, and Banefire out of the board these guys really don't stand a chance.
Third I went up against the Bant Finest Hour deck -- I lost this one. First game was close, he top-decked a Rafiq to come in for ten the turn before he was going to die. I had a Path in-hand to deal with his attacker, but he had the Bant Charm to counter. Second game I got completely mana flooded and lost. I really want to test against this matchup more. I don't think it's that bad, I think I just got pretty unlucky. I put in Story Circles out of the sideboard, but never drew one - after the round I mentioned that and the guy told me that it would have totally annihilated him. If this deck becomes more popular Story Circle might be a bit more important in the sideboard -- it's easy as hell to stop one source of damage with it. That being said, they're running both white and green, so if it becomes to prevalent they've got plenty of ways to remove it.
Fourth round was against a Red-Green haste aggro deck, running nearly a complete load of haste creatures. Man these guys are fast. Bloodbraid Elf, Hellspark, Hell's Thunder, Ram-Gang, Hackblade, even Blitz Hellion. Celestial Purge out of the board is a monster here, but even so, it seems like a pretty close match. I won in three.
Fifth round I lost against a Doran deck running Gaddock Teeg mainboard and Wilt-Leaf Liege. I beat him the first round after I managed to take out his pumped up Teeg with SGC -- I had three uncastable Flame Javelins and a Spectral Procession in hand, and that killed him pretty easily with the adviser out of the way. I got stuck on three lands the second game for several turns and lost. Third game he blew me out pretty well, I'm not really sure there was much I could do. First turn harbinger, second turn teeg, third turn doran, fourth turn Liege - and then evoked a Cloudthresher the next turn to take out all of my blockers. I'm pretty confident I can beat this matchup, however, and probably should have won the second game.
Sixth I beat five-color control. This is a pretty easy matchup. Second game, however, he hit me with a Hallowed Burial. This is a card that I expect to see more of soon, and it's really strong. It's very relevant against all three of the main token decks. It stops our Reveillark, goes through GW's Dauntless Escorts, and stops BW's persist/ajani engine. I managed to win, but it made things much more difficult than a Wrath of Fallout would have.
Seventh I lost to BW Tokens. Zealous Persecution is really, really good against us. I don't really know how to beat this matchup, and need some help figuring it out. ZP wipes our board far too easily, they're really difficult to race due to Finks/Ajani, and Stillmoon Cavalier is not the card it once was. I could put in Anthems instead of Glory of Warfare, but GoW seems so much better in every other matchup.
I ended up 4-3, which is quite a bit better than I anticipated, due to having not played the deck. I also hadn't been playing much Magic lately, and really wasn't too familiar with the meta-game and how some decks operated. Had I had a bit more time to prepare with the deck, I could easily see it winning tournaments and it was a blast to play.
I took this deck to the Sacramento regionals over the weekend. I put it together the night before because I really didn't think that my GB elves deck was going to do very well. I had never played a game with it before my first round, which kind of
I still prefer mindstone. Unlike knight it always excels me a turn and is much less mana dependent. Although it doesn't block in the early game id much rather draw a mindstone that cycles in the late game.
I still prefer mindstone. Unlike knight it always excels me a turn and is much less mana dependent. Although it doesn't block in the early game id much rather draw a mindstone that cycles in the late game.
The possible acceleration is much more relevant for our deck than the lifegain.
Pretty much that. This deck likes Card Advantage actually in the creatures. Grabbing a plains early is something that is useful later, because that's one less land to draw, and it also can catch you right back up in a Manascrew situation, it also keeps you from falling behind on the draw. In addition to that, the lifegain from Knight of Meadowgrain is mostly irrelevent here, and Orchid still offers first strike and actually has a relevant ability when brought back with Lark.
Pretty much that. This deck likes Card Advantage actually in the creatures. Grabbing a plains early is something that is useful later, because that's one less land to draw, and it also can catch you right back up in a Manascrew situation, it also kee
After taking 14th at regionals in my second event I have found that;
Volcanic fallout is really meh. There are very few faes left and tokens outgrow your fallout too quickly
Stillmoons should be traded away ASAP before thier value decreases. White weenie just isn't there anymore, and zealous persecution rapes stillmoons.
WoG is a good card for this deck. I know we are running an agro deck, but it is needed against tokens, and the synergy with reveillark and wrath is just too good.
Lastly, with tokens sprouting up like none other, I really feel windborn muse will start to see SB action. The fact that it really hurts tokens and can be re-occured with lark is nuts.
After taking 14th at regionals in my second event I have found that;Volcanic fallout is really meh. There are very few faes left and tokens outgrow your fallout too quicklyStillmoons should be traded away ASAP before thier value decreases. White we
Stillmoons should be traded away ASAP before thier value decreases. White weenie just isn't there anymore, and zealous persecution rapes stillmoons.
They're still good IN BW Tokens, so I don't think their value will decrease all that much, but without your own pump sources, I think you're right in cutting them from this deck; Zealous Persecution will soon be ubiquitous if it isn't already.
WoG is a good card for this deck. I know we are running an agro deck, but it is needed against tokens, and the synergy with reveillark and wrath is just too good.
I've already explained at length why every part of this is outright wrong, so I won't do so again.
Lastly, with tokens sprouting up like none other, I really feel windborn muse will start to see SB action. The fact that it really hurts tokens and can be re-occured with lark is nuts.
This I do agree with. Windborn Muse has the toughness to soak up attacking token damage, and will kill any of them even with a pump effect. It slows their game down terribly, it's one-sided, it's not dead when their board is empty or yours is full, it slows their clock AND prevents them from activating Windbrisk at the same time.
And of course, as you said, it can be Larked back. I've seen a number of Tokens lists running as few as 2 Terror or Path for their removal suite (besides the ZPs), which means landing it often locks them up long enough for you to land a Siege Gang or something.
I would run four of those before even thinking about Wrath.
They're still good IN BW Tokens, so I don't think their value will decrease all that much, but without your own pump sources, I think you're right in cutting them from this deck; Zealous Persecution will soon be ubiquitous if it isn't already.I've al
I took this deck to the Sacramento regionals over the weekend. I put it together the night before because I really didn't think that my GB elves deck was going to do very well. I had never played a game with it before my first round, which kind of sucked. That being said, I did much better with it than I expected, and really really enjoyed it. This is the list I took:
3x Rangeer of Eos 1x Flamekin Harbinger 4x Reveillark 4x Knight of the White Orchid 4x Figure of Destiny 4x Siege-Gang Commander
2x Ajani Vengeant 2x Glory of Warfare 4x Path to Exile 4x Flame Javelin 4x Spectral Procession
3x Wrath of God 3x Kitchen Finks 1x Burrenton Forge-Tender 2x Banefire 2x Story Circle 4x Celestial Purge
Overall the deck did really well -- I noticed myself making plenty of play mistakes, which I chalked up mainly to inexperience. None of them gamebreaking, but I wasn't playing as efficiently as I could have been with a bit of practice.
First round I went up against GW Tokens, which I beat pretty easily. Glory of Warfare out from under a Heights is a pretty big beating.
Second round I went up against that silly Font of Mythos turbo-fog deck. Between SGC, Flame Javelin, Ajani, and Banefire out of the board these guys really don't stand a chance.
Third I went up against the Bant Finest Hour deck -- I lost this one. First game was close, he top-decked a Rafiq to come in for ten the turn before he was going to die. I had a Path in-hand to deal with his attacker, but he had the Bant Charm to counter. Second game I got completely mana flooded and lost. I really want to test against this matchup more. I don't think it's that bad, I think I just got pretty unlucky. I put in Story Circles out of the sideboard, but never drew one - after the round I mentioned that and the guy told me that it would have totally annihilated him. If this deck becomes more popular Story Circle might be a bit more important in the sideboard -- it's easy as hell to stop one source of damage with it. That being said, they're running both white and green, so if it becomes to prevalent they've got plenty of ways to remove it.
Fourth round was against a Red-Green haste aggro deck, running nearly a complete load of haste creatures. Man these guys are fast. Bloodbraid Elf, Hellspark, Hell's Thunder, Ram-Gang, Hackblade, even Blitz Hellion. Celestial Purge out of the board is a monster here, but even so, it seems like a pretty close match. I won in three.
Fifth round I lost against a Doran deck running Gaddock Teeg mainboard and Wilt-Leaf Liege. I beat him the first round after I managed to take out his pumped up Teeg with SGC -- I had three uncastable Flame Javelins and a Spectral Procession in hand, and that killed him pretty easily with the adviser out of the way. I got stuck on three lands the second game for several turns and lost. Third game he blew me out pretty well, I'm not really sure there was much I could do. First turn harbinger, second turn teeg, third turn doran, fourth turn Liege - and then evoked a Cloudthresher the next turn to take out all of my blockers. I'm pretty confident I can beat this matchup, however, and probably should have won the second game.
Sixth I beat five-color control. This is a pretty easy matchup. Second game, however, he hit me with a Hallowed Burial. This is a card that I expect to see more of soon, and it's really strong. It's very relevant against all three of the main token decks. It stops our Reveillark, goes through GW's Dauntless Escorts, and stops BW's persist/ajani engine. I managed to win, but it made things much more difficult than a Wrath of Fallout would have.
Seventh I lost to BW Tokens. Zealous Persecution is really, really good against us. I don't really know how to beat this matchup, and need some help figuring it out. ZP wipes our board far too easily, they're really difficult to race due to Finks/Ajani, and Stillmoon Cavalier is not the card it once was. I could put in Anthems instead of Glory of Warfare, but GoW seems so much better in every other matchup.
I ended up 4-3, which is quite a bit better than I anticipated, due to having not played the deck. I also hadn't been playing much Magic lately, and really wasn't too familiar with the meta-game and how some decks operated. Had I had a bit more time to prepare with the deck, I could easily see it winning tournaments and it was a blast to play.
Definatly think that there should be a Burrenton Forge-Tender MD as a one of and have 2 or 3 more in the board.
I'm also a fan of Mindstone over the Knight. Sometimes you have to wait a turn to play the knight for it to be effective. Mindstone always hits play turn 2 and excellerates into Ranger of Eos and Ajani Vengeant turn 3 everytime. (plus it cycles late game where the knight might get a land....)
I also like Mogg Fanatic in this deck due to him being a goblin to Siege-Gang Commander plus he can be fetched with Ranger and can finish off opponents.
I've also been running 2 Wrath MD with Austere Command in the sideboard against Faires, and most of the Token decks that have been popping up. Wrecking their enchantments and guys really kicks them in the balls.
Another all star that I don't see everyone playing is Balefire Liege . I only run 2 of him but I've had him win me a lot of games. Figure become a 3/3 plus it also is lightning helix. I had one game where I played Ranger with the liege out and just fetched 2 Figures for a 15 point lifeswing. Balefire Liege also helps end stalemates where both sides are kind of just sitting there. Not to mention Lark can bring him back.
I don't like several choices in this deck. [c]Glory of Warfare[/c] I just don't see this being that good.... I understand that you have tokens but I rather have [c]Ajani Vengeant[/c] Definatly think that there should be a [c]Burrenton Forge-Tender[/
So I ended up taking second at my regionals, I destryed 2 B/W tokens decks. Part of the reason was Voice of All and Chaotic Backlash in the side, I found Voice of All better than Stillmoon because of the extra toughness negates Zealous Persecution. Chaotic Backlash Is useful in any games against tokens.
So I ended up taking second at my regionals, I destryed 2 B/W tokens decks. Part of the reason was [c]Voice of All[/c] and [c]Chaotic Backlash[/c] in the side, I found Voice of All better than Stillmoon because of the extra toughness negates Zealous
So I ended up taking second at my regionals, I destryed 2 B/W tokens decks. Part of the reason was Voice of All and Chaotic Backlash in the side, I found Voice of All better than Stillmoon because of the extra toughness negates Zealous Persecution. Chaotic Backlash Is useful in any games against tokens.
The actual decklist is pretty standad, but the sideboard is a little different. Tokens was such a bad matchup for me I just has to find something that worked well enough against them, Chaotic Backlash worked really well.
I finished 2nd in Manitoba.The actual decklist is pretty standad, but the sideboard is a little different. Tokens was such a bad matchup for me I just has to find something that worked well enough against them, [c]Chaotic Backlash[/c] worked really w
Played this deck at a PTQ in Kansas City. I swear there were maybe fifty or more people playing the new cascading swans deck. I was wondering what some good side board cards are against it. Any ideas would be much appreciated.
Played this deck at a PTQ in Kansas City. I swear there were maybe fifty or more people playing the new cascading swans deck. I was wondering what some good side board cards are against it. Any ideas would be much appreciated.
Okay, I have 4 path, I took out murderous red cap for 2 ranger. I play ww from time to time, and I think 2 Ranger is enough. Why KoTwO? Is the mana accelerate worth it?, should I then always play on the draw or go first, if it is my choice?
How do I beat seismic swans with this deck? A guy runs this deck with a few cascade cards, and like 42 lands, Man, pain,filter, etc lands. Slaughtered my ww.
Land:x24[c]Battlefield Forge[/c]x4[c]Ghitu Encampment[/c]x4[c]Rugged Prairie[/c]x4[c]Plains[/c]x8[c]Mountain[/c]x4Spells:x7[c]Path to exile[/c]x4[c]Ajani Vengeant[/c]x3Creatures:x29[c]Reveillark[/c]x3[c]Siege-Gang Commander[/c]x4[c]Ranger of Eos[/c]x
Run [c]Pithing Needle[/c] It is extremely versitile and destroys swans. As well it is extremely effective in the B/W matchup for [c]Windbrisk Heights[/c] and [c]Ajani Goldmane[/c]
Runed Halo naming Seismic Assault also helps, while being a useful answer to other threats like Anathemancer.
Watch out though as most of these sorts of answers can be bounced by Deny Reality the turn before they combo.
Wispmare destroys Seismic Assault as well as other problem cards like Bitterblossom, Glorious Anthem and Finest Hour, and is Lark Recurrable.
Also watch out here as Seismic Assault is the easiest card for them to cascade into.
Stall using Ajani's first ability. Clever use of Path to Exile and Burrenton Forge-Tender can often go a long way. Always leave PtE mana open if you suspect a Swans. When they hit it with a land, PtE it in reaponse. If they have a second land ready, sacrifice BFT to prevent the damage from the land (which will prevent him from drawing 2 cards). If he has a third land, you're screwed. Oh, maybe not. Considering you made him waste 2 lands, he might have to draw his whole deck and if you're lucky and still on 20 or more, he might not be able to draw enough land. It's very possible.
Runed Halo naming Seismic Assault also helps, while being a useful answer to other threats like Anathemancer.Watch out though as most of these sorts of answers can be bounced by Deny Reality the turn before they combo.Wispmare destroys Seismic Assaul
Stall using Ajani's first ability. Clever use of Path to Exile and Burrenton Forge-Tender can often go a long way. Always leave PtE mana open if you suspect a Swans. When they hit it with a land, PtE it in reaponse. If they have a second land ready, sacrifice BFT to prevent the damage from the land (which will prevent him from drawing 2 cards). If he has a third land, you're screwed. Oh, maybe not. Considering you made him waste 2 lands, he might have to draw his whole deck and if you're lucky and still on 20 or more, he might not be able to draw enough land. It's very possible.
This doesn't work this way exactly. If you sacrifice BFT to prevent Assault's damage to Swans, there's two damage prevention effects (from Swans and BFT) and they choose which one to apply because they control the affected creature (the Swans) so they will obviously choose to draw cards. They can't kill you that turn anyway, but they can cycle the deck to be ready to go off next turn.
This doesn't work this way exactly. If you sacrifice BFT to prevent Assault's damage to Swans, there's two damage prevention effects (from Swans and BFT) and they choose which one to apply because they control the affected creature (the Swans) so the
That's why dropping an early Pithing Needle is important. Also I would run the Needle over Runed Halo Simply because by running the halo they can still pop all your creatures.
Honestly I think swans won't last it can be hated into oblivion. It was a surprise. People will be more prepared for it now.
That's why dropping an early [c]Pithing Needle[/c] is important. Also I would run the Needle over [c]Runed Halo[/c] Simply because by running the halo they can still pop all your creatures.A [c]Rule of Law[/c] may help in the sideboard. Keep their la
This doesn't work this way exactly. If you sacrifice BFT to prevent Assault's damage to Swans, there's two damage prevention effects (from Swans and BFT) and they choose which one to apply because they control the affected creature (the Swans) so they will obviously choose to draw cards. They can't kill you that turn anyway, but they can cycle the deck to be ready to go off next turn.
That doesn't sound right. Any chance you can show the specific ruling/etc? It sounds like it depends on layers (as Swans can't prevent damage IF the damage is already being prevented).
That doesn't sound right. Any chance you can show the specific ruling/etc? It sounds like it depends on layers (as Swans can't prevent damage IF the damage is already being prevented).
That doesn't sound right. Any chance you can show the specific ruling/etc? It sounds like it depends on layers (as Swans can't prevent damage IF the damage is already being prevented).
Er, they're both replacement effects. The person who controls the permanent or who is effected gets to decide which order to apply them in.
Er, they're both replacement effects. The person who controls the permanent or who is effected gets to decide which order to apply them in.
Really? I'm not much of a rules guru, so that's good to know. How does that work with Swans and Sesimic, then? Can they still combo off, or does it only work once?
Really? I'm not much of a rules guru, so that's good to know. How does that work with Swans and Sesimic, then? Can they still combo off, or does it only work once?
Honestly you're best bet is to use cards that are going to be useful in many different situations and matchups like: Pithing Needle , Austere Command
Another good option to throw in there may be Story Circle
Honestly you're best bet is to use cards that are going to be useful in many different situations and matchups like: [c]Pithing Needle[/c], [c]Austere Command[/c]Another good option to throw in there may be [c]Story Circle[/c]
You don't have to prevent all of it, just enough to stay alive 3 or so should be fine in most situations. However you are right it isn't ideal by any means.
You don't have to prevent all of it, just enough to stay alive 3 or so should be fine in most situations. However you are right it isn't ideal by any means.
I had wrath in my sb, and took it out because I agree it counter-acts with the deck, but b/w is a faster agro deck who's job is to lay all thier cards on the table and kill you before you can recover. Wrath stops that straight up. It may be a bad card, but I feel it's good enough
Why is no one usng everlasting torment ? Seems to me that it would shut down swans entirely, while actually serving another purpose.
So what do peoples sbs look like rigt now if you're going to a ptq and and knowing the meta as it is now?
I'm thinking 1 banefire(I have 1 mainboarded) 3 burretons(I have 1 mainboarded) 2 ajani goldmanes 3 windborn muse 3 wrath of god 3 guttural response
I might remove the ajani for something else, as ajani is mainly for tokens to give me more ajani hate and now I'm running 3 wraths/windborns mainly for tokens.
Any other thoughts? I might throw n everlasting torrments if swans really starts hitting the meta hard
I had wrath in my sb, and took it out because I agree it counter-acts with the deck, but b/w is a faster agro deck who's job is to lay all thier cards on the table and kill you before you can recover. Wrath stops that straight up. It may be a bad c
Problem with story circle is, unless you have at least 10 white mana open your dead. The swans deck I played against, begins the combo and doesn't stop till he has at least half his deck drawn. So he may only have to ditch 10 lands, but I am sure he has more, when he is running a 42 card mana base
Problem with story circle is, unless you have at least 10 white mana open your dead. The swans deck I played against, begins the combo and doesn't stop till he has at least half his deck drawn. So he may only have to ditch 10 lands, but I am sure he
Problem with story circle is, unless you have at least 10 white mana open your dead. The swans deck I played against, begins the combo and doesn't stop till he has at least half his deck drawn. So he may only have to ditch 10 lands, but I am sure he has more, when he is running a 42 card mana base
They won't have 20 lands in hand.
Story circle with 3-4 mana open will keep you alive, but you still have damage coming in from swans, bloodbraid, and Manlands that will likely kill you.
Story circle is really bad in this meta in general though.
They won't have 20 lands in hand.Story circle with 3-4 mana open will keep you alive, but you still have damage coming in from swans, bloodbraid, and Manlands that will likely kill you.Story circle is really bad in this meta in general though.
Do any of you think Boat Brew will make a recurrence? M10 is bringing some good stuff to the table, including a nice burn spell.
this thread pretty much has died.Do any of you think Boat Brew will make a recurrence? M10 is bringing some good stuff to the table, including a nice burn spell.
