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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 9:00AM
#41
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because the drifter can actually win the game, whereas an esper charm can't attack. this deck relies on finks, drifters, and those random fatties to win. now my question: my meta is very faeires heavy (yet), so what are the best creatures to use in conjunction with cruel ultimatum  (a card i'm biting my lip at and just using) besides a singleton nucklavee and shriekmaw archon  , oona  , etc... for the moment, my meta is still creature heavy and also, what's good against tokens, because i just got blow out by them on friday
Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal? Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" Twitter: Burning_Forest ------------------------------------------------------ I started making some Dubstep and Electronica. Check me out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXLxlHeE1rg My Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/whitefender69?feature=mhee It is a little bit chill. Let me know what you think. 
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 9:14AM
#42
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Date Joined:
Jul 11, 2008
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because the drifter can actually win the game, whereas an esper charm can't attack. this deck relies on finks, drifters, and those random fatties to win.
now my question: my meta is very faeires heavy (yet), so what are the best creatures to use in conjunction with cruel ultimatum (a card i'm biting my lip at and just using) besides a singleton nucklavee and shriekmaw
archon , oona , etc...
for the moment, my meta is still creature heavy
and also, what's good against tokens, because i just got blow out by them on friday
Well, your matchup against Fae is always going to suck. So if your running into a lot of them, shelve your QnT and pull it out in a bigger tournament like states, try running Demigod since it has the most success against Fae.
Tokens I found is always a coin toss. If I side in similar to Fae with Cloudthresher, Jund Charm and firespout my success against tokens is alright. But its still not great. Your apparently in a tough meta but you could use that to test out ideas on how to improve the Fae and Tokens MU.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 9:37AM
#43
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ok, so i'm just getting back into magic after being out for a while (left at approximately right after last worlds) and i was wondering if anyone could just give me maybe a run down on exactly how this deck plays? It looks like it has potential to be great and is exactly the type of deck i love to play. Thanks in advance.
Welcome back!
This deck is slow but powerful. You spend your first couple of turns laying land and perhaps a road  block  to hold off aggro decks. Once cryptics and wraths come online you begin to pick up pace. You sort of begin to "snow-ball" into the win. While its not always true but atleast in my meta, after I nail a t5 drifter if at all possible, I generally have the match won. (Haha, dumb aggro decks and their over-extending >.>).
Control the board, play ultimatum, rape face.
I do have to stress though, this deck is very unforgiving. Becareful about how you tap your mana, and when you play your spells. A spout that's played too early can lose you the game. On the upside, this deck can be quite customizable, so finding what fits you best is important. This is an awesome deck, have fun with it! ^^
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 10:33AM
#44
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Date Joined:
Oct 10, 2007
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Welcome back!
This deck is slow but powerful. You spend your first couple of turns laying land and perhaps a road block to hold off aggro decks. Once cryptics and wraths come online you begin to pick up pace. You sort of begin to "snow-ball" into the win. While its not always true but atleast in my meta, after I nail a t5 drifter if at all possible, I generally have the match won. (Haha, dumb aggro decks and their over-extending >.>).
Control the board, play ultimatum, rape face.
I do have to stress though, this deck is very unforgiving. Becareful about how you tap your mana, and when you play your spells. A spout that's played too early can lose you the game. On the upside, this deck can be quite customizable, so finding what fits you best is important. This is an awesome deck, have fun with it! ^^
Ok, this definately helps. The main problem though is that i left pretty much during morningtide spoilers, so really the only set in the current standard that i know is lorwyn...hopefully I'll be able to get back into the swing of things though.
NO ONE EXPECTS THE QUAGSIRE INSURRECTION! My SUPER AWESOME GregtheEgg lightning bolt: http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm284/fengairen2/Scan.png 
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 10:36AM
#45
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Date Joined:
Sep 15, 2007
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Fixed. Accidentally copied GerryT's sideboard again.
Thanks Adam.
I've got a few questions about the deck, thanks for any insights.
First, the majority seem to run 1 or 2 Cloudthresher  . Since fae are one of the more difficult matches, why not run 4?
Is Knowledge Exploitation  giving anyone second thoughts about running Cruel Ultimatum  ? I detected at least one person with misgivings about running a 7cc sorcery in a control deck. I'm thinking of skipping this card, if I did, why would that be a mistake?
Is turn 3 too late? This is in reference to Condemn  , Remove Soul  and Negate  . Negate has a chance of snagging a Bitterblossom  , and Cancel  is much less likely to do so. 5CC runs Esper Charm[c] though, and some pack [c]Wispmare  SB. Beyond the BB issue, Bant Charm  handles what Condemn handles, and offers more versatility too. I don't think Bants + Condemns total more than 5 in any deck listed in the OP. Cancel counters everything, is the 1cc greater cost really such a disadvantage?
Thanks for helpful replies!
Attitude reflects leadership.
Vindicated!
* HawkBlade is aggro/control!
* Post-ban HawkBlade!
* Jace, the Mind Sculptor is good!
* End-of-Lorwyn TurboFog!
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'...but if you're repeating yourself in an online forum, chances are you're just feeding a troll.' - Rat Bastardsen
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 10:45AM
#46
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Date Joined:
Apr 28, 2005
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Gerry T's has it right in his new list. For reference:
4 Vivid Creek
4 Vivid Meadow
2 Vivid Marsh
2 Adarkar Wastes
1 Underground River
2 Island
2 Cascade Bluffs
4 Mystic Gate
2 Sunken Ruins
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Oona's Grace
3 Remove Soul
4 Esper Charm
2 Bant Charm
4 Cryptic Command
4 Wrath of God
2 Firespout
2 Story Circle
4 Mulldrifter
4 Kitchen Finks
1 River Kelpie
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
Sideboard
3 Wispmare
1 Story Circle
2 Mind Shatter
3 Negate
2 Firespout
4 Runed Halo
No Cruel Ultimatum-
Since when did 7 mana sorceries become good? You will lost just as many games by having the clunky spell stuck in ur hand as you will win by casting it. Thompson makes the point that you will win more games with 3 casting cost cards.
Remove soul over negate main-
Better in every matchup besides the mirror. Against faeries, countering a Mitsbind is very important. Chris Wolterick lost to back to back Mitsbinds at the cruise qualifier.
Oona's grace-
Keeps the gas coming late game.
River Kelpie-
Obvious synergies with finks and grace but i think i like Nucklevee better as it is also card advantage as well as providing a possibility for a lock.
Story Circle-
Its GG against red and anything midrange game one.
SB
Wispmare-
If you answer BB and counter Mitsbind, fae will have a very hard time beating you. Just ride finks or oona to victory.
The rest is pretty obvious.
I feel that this deck has a tremendous game against the Non-Blue meta which will probably be over 50% of the meta at most tournaments. Against faeries, game one is tough but games two and three we have the edge i think probably bringing the overall matchup to 50-50. The only bad matchup I can see is probably the mirror but I havent tested it. He says to just wait for them to go for cruel, counter it, and shatter their hand away but it isn't that simple.
The idea though is to metagame not for the most popular deck but for the majority of the meta which is what this deck does.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 11:15AM
#47
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2006
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Thanks Adam.
I've got a few questions about the deck, thanks for any insights.
First, the majority seem to run 1 or 2 Cloudthresher . Since fae are one of the more difficult matches, why not run 4?
Is Knowledge Exploitation giving anyone second thoughts about running Cruel Ultimatum ? I detected at least one person with misgivings about running a 7cc sorcery in a control deck. I'm thinking of skipping this card, if I did, why would that be a mistake?
Is turn 3 too late? This is in reference to Condemn , Remove Soul and Negate . Negate has a chance of snagging a Bitterblossom , and Cancel is much less likely to do so. 5CC runs Esper Charm[c] though, and some pack [c]Wispmare SB. Beyond the BB issue, Bant Charm handles what Condemn handles, and offers more versatility too. I don't think Bants + Condemns total more than 5 in any deck listed in the OP. Cancel counters everything, is the 1cc greater cost really such a disadvantage?
Thanks for helpful replies!
Knowledge Exploitation shouldn't scare you away from playing cruel Ultimatum.For 7 mana your gonna most likely just be able to counter it,its not gonna be a problem with all the counters and the fact that nobody likes playing rogues.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 11:19AM
#48
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2008
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Knowledge Exploitation shouldn't scare you away from playing cruel Ultimatum.For 7 mana your gonna most likely just be able to counter it,its not gonna be a problem with all the counters and the fact that nobody likes playing rogues.
Remember that Bitterblossom produces Rogues, and a lot of Faeries are also classified as Rogues. Some in the Fae thread are already trying to capitalize as Knowledge Exploitation as a SB option, and I doubt they're the only ones.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 11:48AM
#49
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Date Joined:
Jul 31, 2008
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No Cruel Ultimatum-
Since when did 7 mana sorceries become good? You will lost just as many games by having the clunky spell stuck in ur hand as you will win by casting it. Thompson makes the point that you will win more games with 3 casting cost cards.
Since Tooth and Nail =/...But seriously, it gives insane CA and CA is what runs this deck. It's hardly clunky and 7 mana is not hard to get when you are playing QnT. Seriously, it costs only one more than Oona.
Remove soul over negate main-
Better in every matchup besides the mirror. Against faeries, countering a Mitsbind is very important. Chris Wolterick lost to back to back Mitsbinds at the cruise qualifier.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Oona's grace-
Keeps the gas coming late game.
Meh.
River Kelpie-
Obvious synergies with finks and grace but i think i like Nucklevee better as it is also card advantage as well as providing a possibility for a lock.
Nuckles is better with Ultimatum.
Story Circle-
Its GG against red and anything midrange game one.
SB
Wispmare-
If you answer BB and counter Mitsbind, fae will have a very hard time beating you. Just ride finks or oona to victory.
The rest is pretty obvious.
Not exactly. Whats up with the 2 Bant Charms and 4 Esper Charms? Definitely should be switched around with 2 Espers in the side for the Mirror.
I feel that this deck has a tremendous game against the Non-Blue meta which will probably be over 50% of the meta at most tournaments. Against faeries, game one is tough but games two and three we have the edge i think probably bringing the overall matchup to 50-50. The only bad matchup I can see is probably the mirror but I havent tested it. He says to just wait for them to go for cruel, counter it, and shatter their hand away but it isn't that simple.
Its not that simple if you are playing a competant pilot. Ever actually. Especially game one where you have four cards in the deck that counter it.
The idea though is to metagame not for the most popular deck but for the majority of the meta which is what this deck does.
Those are my opinions.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2008 - 11:48AM
#50
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Date Joined:
Mar 18, 2008
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I just took first at my FNM with this list: Spoiler:
Show
Some of my card choices probably seem odd/downright bad. This is true; I've had a lot of trouble getting the exact cards I wanted for the deck, So I used what I had available. I will improve the list as I get the cards. Especially the manabase. Matches: Spoiler:
Show
Round 1:
I think I played the worst player in the room. This may as well have been a bye. In game one I mulled to five and ended up keeping a hand with a reflecting pool as my only land. I ended up discarding about 5 cards simply because I couldn't play them, then won anyway.
Round 2:
I got stuck on 4 lands and was eventual overwhelmed in game one by my opponents extremely greedy Demigod deck. He was running demigods, kitchen finks, and sprouting thrinax. I'm not sure exactly what he was doing, but it was pretty good. He took game two while I got stuck on two filter lands for the entire game. That'll learn me to keep a hand with 2 filters as my only mana...
Round 3:
Played a decent player who was running a weird sonic boom deck. I honestly thought it was sub-par. I won game 1 and game 2 went to time. It was mostly a match of me casting esper charms at the end of his turn and trying to put out something to kill him with on my turn. Eventually, something stuck and I won. Bant Charm was MVP here.
Round: 4
This was one of the best players in the room playing a deck I think is called pancakes on these boards. Game 1 went long but he eventually pulled it out with superior card advantage and a little luck (very little luck, this guy is just plain good). Game two was shorter. He had me on the ropes with a vastly superior army, more cards in hand, and an unfortunately cocky attitude. I tried to set off a cruel ultimatum, which he hit with a cryptic. He then announced he had lethal damage on the board. I agreed and told him to play it out. I was at 6 life with a cloudthresher on the table, but for some reason he only attacked with a Reveilark and a shriekmaw. I blocked, he returned two mulldrifters and passed the turn, all the while looking VERY sheepish. I was at 3 life, he was at 2, but wasn't hurting for blockers. I firespouted most of his guys away and passed the turn. He was able to attacked for lethal again, but I sent his horde of notions to the bottom with condemn, leaving him at 7 and blocked his other dude. Then I topdecked a `drifter, evoked it, got a cryptic, tapped his guys and swung for the win. Game three he stuck on two lands for too long and lost. Lesson: always keep your poker face and never give up. Even great players screw up sometimes.
Round 5:
First round in top 8 was against the demigod kid who had beaten me before. With lands in play, I was able to fend him off and take the round. I lost game 1 to his speed, but my sideboarded wraths and runed halos were overwhelming.
Round 6:
This time against an esper control deck. Very difficult. This deck warrants some further investigation, its CA is just sick. Again, my sideboard wrecked him. Relics were key in shutting down his CA. Interestingly enough, he saw my Mannequins in game 1 and boarded against them, while I had boarded them out. This left him with 4 relics that did nothing except draw a card and me with 3 relics I almost never used because he had to RFG his own yard! My relics still stopped some silly shenanigans though.
Round 7:
My opponent played a version of Kithkin backlash. Terrible match up against toast. Not much to say here. I didn't use my sideboard. He was steamrolled by my mass removal and bant charms.
In conclusion: I had no card in the deck that I ever wished wasn't there. Condemns were essential, I simply would not have survived against the demigod deck without them. Esper and Bant charms both showed themselves to be super good against everyone. I think the 5 color elemental match needs to be considered and sideboarded for. Meta depending, of course. Cruel Ultimatum rarely got used for full effect. I'm honestly not sure casting it ever won me a game, but I know I only lost one game where it went off. Needs a lot more testing. Out of the board, Relics were fantastic, I would have lost without them. Runed Halos stopped my demigod opponent from having a 3 demigod nut-draw that otherwise would have killed me in a hurry. Ajani Vengeant was a failed experiment. I though he might work against control, but I was wrong. Nucklavee was a pretty good board for the control match. I'm not sorry I didn't try to maindeck him. He's very slow and not usually helpful except against control. He was beastly in those matches. Sowers did naughty things to pancakes in testing, but they only really helped me against (oddly enough) esper control. The few creature he did have were fatties, so I took them and smashed him with them. My FNM is extremely competitive, a lot of pro points floating around the room and such. So as a maiden run for toast, I was very pleased.
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