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5 years ago ::
Oct 14, 2008 - 1:31PM
#41
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Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
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So . . . A RDW-variant T16 at the SCG "Win a Cruise" tourney this weekend: http://www.pbs.org/thinktank/transcript893.htmlDo take a look. If the link doesn't work, just go to SCG. I'd post here but my posts are long enough. Some observations about the deck: -It's great. -It's great because it runs Hell's Thunder. I know there is some debate surrounding this card but it, along with DoR, makes it the Scissors to QnTs Paper. Why? You get to recur eight of your dudes; add to that 2-3 Ghitu Encampments and you've got yourself and away team. Yes, Hell's THunder is "sub-par" becuase it's burn on a stick that has to stick then goes away but, unless QnT Condemns/Bant Charms it, it's coming back. CA vs. the king of CA is good. -It MDs Firespout. I like that but it has no green mana producers. It runs 20 Mountains and some Ghitus. Why can't it run at least four Fire-lit Thickets? And, surely, four Karplusan Forests won't hurt. Seriously: "Firespout (using :g  , kill your BB/SP dudes, play Thunder, eat it." -The other RDW thread (the ginormous one) has been postulating running eight :b  roducing lands (as many on this thread have) so as to SB $eize, Infest and Blighning. The SCG deck didn't do that either. -The deck didn't run Stigma Lasher. Lots of 3-drops and burn. I think that's good in this meta. Why? because the meta just slowed down substantially and I'd rather have Ram-Gang, Gouger and Thunder rather than cutting one for Stigma Lasher. People at my shop are calling this "Medium Red" for it's midrange-ish approach. I think it's good. I'm Sergeant D and I approve this deck. I think RDW can splash black or green, with black making more sense in this meta. Notice, though, that the deck didn't need either splash to do very well. Also note that it placed lower than two QnT decks which leads me to believe the Blightning/Seize SB package is in order.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 14, 2008 - 6:21PM
#42
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Moving this thread into the DtB and getting the title changed...
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real.
--Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
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5 years ago ::
Oct 14, 2008 - 6:30PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2006
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Also:
Please add the decks that have recently made the top 16 at SCG's Win-a-Cruise that pertain to your thread
2:25 PM sneakattackkid: my basics are worth more...
5:21 PM Nighthavk_: I was splitting more 8-4s than a hooker splits her legs.
11:42 PM Nighthavk_: because honestly, your opponent may be caw, but he'll probably be a drooling idiot who just found out porn exists.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 14, 2008 - 6:41PM
#44
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Date Joined:
Aug 23, 2007
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The question: Is ashenmoor liege  worth it in r/b variants? makes ashenmoor gouger  swing for 6 on turn 4, and stops demigod of revenge  from being flame javelin  'd. Possibly put in some more b/r guys to help out? Though I must say, I like 5/5 haste wither over 6/6 can't block.
3,000th post: September 5, 2010 4,000th post: March 24, 2012 Winner of the YMTC Ravnica War of the Guilds contest as guild Dimir. Snapcaster Mage  is the best card of all time. How do you deal?
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5 years ago ::
Oct 14, 2008 - 6:43PM
#45
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2008
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Where can we see the SCG lists? Ive searched everywhere with no results. EDIT: nvm I found it http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat … ty=Roanoke
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5 years ago ::
Oct 14, 2008 - 7:51PM
#46
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Date Joined:
Oct 10, 2007
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5 years ago ::
Oct 14, 2008 - 10:50PM
#47
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Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2008
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Also:
Please add the decks that have recently made the top 16 at SCG's Win-a-Cruise that pertain to your thread
Done
Still need a good banner! Whoever finds/makes one gets a  and credit in the OP 
Also: does the blightning aggro list from SCG belong here, or should this focus more on the original flavor of RDW?
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5 years ago ::
Oct 15, 2008 - 5:38AM
#48
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Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
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Since this is the DtB RDW thread, I think it's profitable for us to discuss the following issues. Some of these are inspired by the 70+ page thread Banksy started, some by this thread, and some of my own invention:
For your consideration:
-How much (and what) burn? Apparently, Shard volley is good enough for the recent T8 deck but what about Magma Spray (tech vs. opposing Demigods, Finks, etc.), Lash Out (I hate it personally) and Shock/Tarfire (the latter good if we splash lack and want to run Auntie's Hovel)? 12 Point removal seems standard but what about Firespout (see the SCG T8 deck) and/or Clasm? Worth room in the deck when it might be a dead draw (you know, against a Toast Player with a Thresher on the board)?
-Splash? The SCG T8 deck seems to beg for a green splash, if only for Spout. Black gives us Infest (so amazingly good--if you've ever played agaisnt Forge-Tender, you feel me), $eize and Blightning.
-Specific duders: I hate Tattermunnge Maniac with the fire of a thousand suns. Deatraiders are okay but, as I said in an earlier post, this deck doesn't need to be stupid fast at the expense of quality. I love four each Thunder and Demigod.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 15, 2008 - 6:11AM
#49
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i wouldn't say that the idea of the deck is "every creature is a threat", rather i'd call it "win the game as fast as possible". deck also focuses on maximing the use of the mana, and Viscera Dragger  is perfect for this issue. drawing a card is always good (by turn 5-6 we're usually hellbented) and it could be suprise-thrown when opponent is tapped out. it's not important that it "goes away", i thought deck for burst damage, not having a bunch of guys attacking each turn. in the R/B version i'd play it over Boggart Ram-Gang  , with triple red mana cost.
i don't know how manabase could be that "kind of random", never had problems playing anything.
About the bolded part: Apparently we're not playing the same deck. You're playing the old RDW that wanted to win as fast as possible...arguably Sligh is better at that... The thing is it rolls over to lifegain - a resolved primal command can pretty much mean game over.
I'm trying to build a next gen RDW along the lines of the one Shuhei Nakamura made popular... you know, the one that won everything pre-rotation! It focuses on making every creature matter, viscera dragger being 3 damage doesn't really make a real impact on the game and it makes on impact on the board.
About manabases. I think the idea is to have all your black sources be able to generate red as well so as to pump your figures and cast stuff like Ram-gang. Not that I play it.
Goblin Deathraiders  is the 2-drop this deck needs, it will surely die, but clears out the way for other non evasive creatures: by turn 3-4 not every deck has 1/1 useless "tokens" to sacrifice with raiders.
The same goes for this guy. Although arguably better than the dragger, it just doesn't do enough. The fact that it rolls over to a kitchen finks is the biggest problem with the current meta. There's also a possibility of it running into a doran or likewise and in that case, it's done nothing!
Hell's Thunder  is simply amazing: who said we need to have creatures all the time? it's a 4-damage WoG-proof dude that recurs. Another Flame Javelin  , but better
First of all, he isn't WoG proof - he WoG's himself!!
We're not really looking to finish the game with flame javelin or other burn and we're certainly not looking to run into a hard-cast mulldrifter, cloudthresher, bitterblossom or spectral procession token or other random flying creature. We want solid creatures that makes a impact on both the game and board and are big or even must-answer threats(FoD, Gouger, Demigod) or very effecient and useful (Fanatic).
I played against it today and yes - it hurts when it does deal damage. However, I was a lot more worried that he played something that I would have to deal with the next many turns instead...like any other creature in the deck!
Furthermore, had I resolved a bitterblossom turn 2, I pretty much wouldn't have cared about it.
Figure Of Destiny  why not, if we're going to throw in just it's that good, i really can't say no... rather for late-game use (when we're out of gas) than for dropping t1, imo. plus, not being monored could cause some problem in playing its second ability. besides all, it works good, a little less in a R/B, but still good.
Drop it turn 1, hit for 2 turn 2 has never been bad. Hit for 4 turn 3 is nuts. Hit for 8 turn 6 should win you the game.
If pumping him is a problem, you should take a look at your manabase!
i don't see any use of Thoughtseize  here, i mean not any real use besides playing it just because it's overpowered (like "splash black for blossom" and "splash green green for goyf"). could fit in a sb for a heavy lifespam meta, for witch we already got Everlasting Torment  .
Thoughtseize is a great turn 2 or 3 play to take away that firespout/wrath of god. That's a pretty good reason right there!
Actually, it's good in just about any matchup to deprive them of their biggest threat. For instance it can take out a cloudthresher, cryptic command or even cruel ultimatum vs. toast. Or a demigod in the mirror! Or Oversoul of Dusk  ! There's many very viable targets besides protective ones.
That's also a pretty solid quality right there.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 15, 2008 - 7:13AM
#50
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Since this got DTB'ed I'll repost my decklist from the other thread: Demigod BlossomsCreatures: 4 x *Figure of Destiny  4 x *Mogg Fanatic  4 x *Ashenmoor Gouger  4 x *Demigod of Revenge  Other Spells: 4 x *Bitterblossom  4 x *Terror  4 x *Magma Spray  4 x *Incinerate  4 x *Flame Javelin  Land: 4 x *Graven Cairns  4 x *Sulfurous Springs  4 x *Reflecting Pool  12 x *Mountain  Sideboard: 4 x *Manabarbs  3 x *Everlasting Torment  4 x *Thoughtseize  4 x *Infest  Here are my updated thoughts about the list: Creatures
Show
Q: OGOMG WHERE IS BOGGART RAM-GANG  !?!?!?
A: No idea. I just played some games today and didn't miss it and I doubt I will. That's the reasoning. If I were to give an attempt at reasoning, it would be something along the lines of 2-1-ness of fanatic and my general love of him.
Other than that I don't think there's much to argue about in the creature-base. We're running Bitterblossom[c] and [c]Figure of Destiny  so there's no reason to run Stigma Lasher  (which has been underwhelming to me).
Feel free to tell me if you think I'm wrong and why though.
Bitterblossom 
a) The mid-range-ish theme of Demigod Red makes it a perfect fit.
b) I hear it's a house against control.
c) It's a token machine to battle tokens and kithkin.
d) It chumps their biggest threat or produces a growing army.
Terror 
I play Cloudthresher  / Burrenton Forge-Tender 
- I play Terror .
That's my reason right there.
Manabarbs 
- An old favourite of mine that has proved usefull in lots of situations. It might be the first to be canned though, depends on what appears. Tempted to ditch it for Unwilling Recruit  because I haven't figured out when to side in manabarbs...
Everlasting Torment
- Works against Runed Halo  , persist heavy decks and of course burrenton forge-tender  s.
Thoughtseize
- It grabs a sweeper or their greatest threat. It can protect, it can disrupt, it can save your ass from a big-ass threat that would've killed you. It's actually MD-able!
Infest 
After a couple of runs vs. tokens (thanks to Momo) I've decided that this might be needed in Forge-Tender land. If I'm able to cast it when I want it with my manabase isn't tested yet though.
Any critique is welcome. Yes I'm aware that you might draw 3 Reflecting Pool  and have to mulligan. The chance of doing that compared to the chance of drawing a Reflecting Pool any other land is minimal.
So far this manabase hasn't given me any problems.
My testing so far has show that: - Bitterblossom is really, really good. If it's not providing you with a growing army, it's providing you excellent chump blockers. So basically it's either doing more damage to the opponent than it's causing you or it's preventing more damage than it's cause you by chumping their threats. It also allows for safe-playing in the mirror, if the opponent has a demigod in the gy and a new one from the top will kill you. - This deck is really potent and the manabase is solid. - Terror has never been dead so far. Did some testing against pre-rotation elves and the turn2 goyf which usually could be a problem was solved by the tapping of 2 mana. I think I will see this situation with many other previously troublesome cards as well. Unfortunatly I've not played many kithkin and token decks where I've drawn it, but I'm sure it will prove it's worth when I do. - Thoughtseize is awesome. I've been playing it mostly on turn3 to clear wrath from their hand and it's been 2 life and more worth every time I've cast it. I've found myself always siding it in because it really is good against everything I've met so far... might be going MD. The funny thing is that even though I run pain AND bitterblossom, I haven't found it to be an issue to run seize.
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