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5 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2008 - 2:58AM
#681
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Date Joined:
Oct 10, 2008
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Honestly, I would only run Cruel Ultimatum as a one-of anyway. Its mana cost is just so prohibitive that you need time to build up to it.
Incidentally, you should try and avoid the mindset that your opponent will have countermagic for any big spell you cast. If it's that relevant to your metagame, run Glen Elendra Archmage  for the anti-counterspell tech.
This is actually a very good idea, never thought of that before 
In the games i have played so far i must say that CU cost isn't a problem, neither was using it against decks that used counter spell, simply because i do not cast CU on the first time i get the mana for it (unless of course my opponent is tapped :P ). Has it was said before CU is not the only win condition, if your opponent has other things to worry about, CU will be cast more easily.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2008 - 3:29AM
#682
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2006
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I'm not sure of which foul spell is cursing me into finding myself again explaining you that SGC tournaments give extremely debatable informations.
According to such events, the strongest Tsp-Lor decks would have been WG Kithkin, Howling Martyr, Counter-Mesa, and double-lord mono Green Elves splashing Black for Prowess of the Fair.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2008 - 3:35AM
#683
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Date Joined:
Jul 24, 2006
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I don't really care about the SCG event. As far as I'm concerned, the meta is this:
Faeries (UBR and WUB)
Kithkin
G/B/w Rock variants
RDW w/ Demigod
QnT / 5cc
Popular rogue decks that people will play for kicks (Pan's Labyrinth, etc.)
I'm building according to that.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2008 - 3:36AM
#684
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Date Joined:
Oct 14, 2007
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I'm not sure of which foul spell is cursing me into finding myself again explaining you that SGC tournaments give extremely debatable informations.
According to such events, the strongest Tsp-Lor decks would have been WG Kithkin, Howling Martyr, Counter-Mesa, and double-lord mono Green Elves splashing Black for Prowess of the Fair.
That's been said over and over again, BUT I do think that those tournaments have a purpose or two: creating a bare-bones gauntlet that your deck NEEDS to be testing against, or "If your deck can't beat these, you're out of luck." Also it helps weed out the wheat from the chaff, though not sufficiently.
It's an East Coast metagame, and look at what happened at PT Hollyweird this year: the "gauntlet" coming into it was Big Mana (seriously, people didn't know when to put the deck down) and Faeries.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2008 - 3:44AM
#685
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2006
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My point is that just because a deck with 12 taplands proved optimal there, it doesn't mean it is the optimal version.
Actually, even if I had the most ironclad trust in the reliablity of these results, it would be kinda hard to believe that the optimal variant of the probably premiere control deck of the season was found within the first event.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2008 - 7:45AM
#686
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Date Joined:
Jul 11, 2008
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I don't really care about the SCG event. As far as I'm concerned, the meta is this:
Faeries (UBR and WUB)
Kithkin
G/B/w Rock variants
RDW w/ Demigod
QnT / 5cc
Popular rogue decks that people will play for kicks (Pan's Labyrinth, etc.)
I'm building according to that.
I totally agree that Kithikin and Faeries will still be big players in the meta, but RDW and Rock are done.
Although, Faeries only saw one top slot as opposed to all 8, granted it was 1st, but still, Faeries aren't doing the same old song and dance they use to.
I haven't seen a new Kithkin list, but I'm sure it will find a way to maybe actually get some answers in the deck and not be so plain. Elspeth?
RDW lost Skred, that means Purity smashes RDW. RDW has resorted to running 12+ burn spells and 1 card makes those spells useless, unless they go for a 2 for 1 burn on purity, assuming none of those spells are countered. And Purity is big enough to deal with any of the big threats RDW has. If RDW does see widespread play, then expect people to start using Purity.
Rock hasn't been truely solid since faeries started dominating. It still wont see play since nothing in the new set has contributed more to it than against a rock build. The deck lost a lot in the cycle, and a lot of deck are running solid answers to most of the threats rock has in mainboard now. Rock doesn't even fair well against Toast.
As much as you wish to deny it, people will be looking at the undeniable pattern of what decklist see more top spots, even if it is a "small" tournament, its bigger than FNM. Of course there are going to be those people who are angry their ideas aren't working and are going to find the first "Top Decklist" link available. You should expect the meta to revolve around the latest "Top decklist" no matter how big you may think the tournament is, it still has the largest turn out in a sanctioned tournament for the new set and actually already has some patterns in the top list.
It would be wrong to not expect the obvious.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2008 - 7:49AM
#687
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Date Joined:
Oct 14, 2007
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My point is that just because a deck with 12 taplands proved optimal there, it doesn't mean it is the optimal version.
Actually, even if I had the most ironclad trust in the reliablity of these results, it would be kinda hard to believe that the optimal variant of the probably premiere control deck of the season was found within the first event.
While I agree with you, nowhere in your last few posts have you mentioned that point.
Also, why would the optimal build be the first one to do well in a tourney? That hasn't been true for any deck in Standard for a good while. At least the concept has been tried and true in stead of theory that "sounds good based on past metagames", which was the point I was making.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2008 - 8:53AM
#688
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Date Joined:
Jul 11, 2008
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Until there are more 1 or 2 drops in the deck, I don't see the problem in running so many tap lands. They fix your mana very efficiently, and if stabalizing from a few tap land drops is difficult for you, then your deck just simply need to be tweaked.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2008 - 10:33AM
#689
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- Forum Guide
- Oh, the redhead said to shred the cello
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I'm not sure of which foul spell is cursing me into finding myself again explaining you that SGC tournaments give extremely debatable informations.
According to such events, the strongest Tsp-Lor decks would have been WG Kithkin, Howling Martyr, Counter-Mesa, and double-lord mono Green Elves splashing Black for Prowess of the Fair.
To be fair there were a lot of proffesionals at that tourney.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2008 - 10:36AM
#690
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Date Joined:
Jul 24, 2006
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Spoons, I disagree with the comments you made on some archetypes.
I totally agree that Kithikin and Faeries will still be big players in the meta, but RDW and Rock are done...
RDW lost Skred, that means Purity smashes RDW. RDW has resorted to running 12+ burn spells and 1 card makes those spells useless, unless they go for a 2 for 1 burn on purity, assuming none of those spells are countered. And Purity is big enough to deal with any of the big threats RDW has. If RDW does see widespread play, then expect people to start using Purity.
You seem to be under the impression that Purity has text saying "You have Protection From Red"; it only actually stops burn spells. Some of the red decks I've seen on this website look really solid, including the traditional Figure of Destiny  / Demigod of Revenge  tag team as well as newcomer Hell's Thunder  . That's a lot of creature based damage.
There's also the slight problem that Purity costs 6 mana. Whilst you're getting to 6 mana, the red deck is smashing your face in with FoD and such like. Even if you Wrath on turn 4, they don't care because they cast Demigod and smash you. Oh, and it costs WWW, which only toast and Kithkin will ever be able to generate and Kithkin already have Forge-Tender. So, basically, it's a creature that *might* hose RDW a bit in some matchups.
Red still has a strong matchup against Fae, a reasonable to good matchup against Kithkin (where success is inversely proportional to the number of Forge-Tenders the Kithkin player sees) and can just about beat Toast in the hands of a good player. It's not dead from losing two cards (Blood Knight and Skred) because it kept the most important ones (Figure of Destiny and Demigod of Revenge).
Rock hasn't been truely solid since faeries started dominating. It still wont see play since nothing in the new set has contributed more to it than against a rock build. The deck lost a lot in the cycle, and a lot of deck are running solid answers to most of the threats rock has in mainboard now. Rock doesn't even fair well against Toast.
Yeah, I mean, it lost to Fae at Worlds. Oh wait...
Rock as an archetype will generally always be kicking about somewhere, played by the stalwart of the archetype who insists properly built midrange beats anything (even if they're wrong). It currently has Doran, Troll Ascetic, Kitchen Finks, Thoughtseize, Chameleon Colossus and a bundle of other goodies to play with, plus the option to go down the Elf route that won World's last year (though I ultimately refuse to call it an "Elf" deck, because it has little in the way of tribal interaction).
The only real card that Rock lost was Tarmogoyf  . Yes, it's a hit, but it isn't a lethal one. And as you said, the main reason people stopped playing it was because of a weaker Fae matchup. Since fae isn't in the metagame dominating position it was any more, it has the chance of emulating Lark's plan against Toast at Hollywood (which, if you need reminding, was "Hope you don't get drawn against it because you can beat anything else).
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