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5 years ago ::
May 23, 2008 - 6:17AM
#751
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- Banner Banneret
- Forum Guide
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Visions is only good on the first turn in your deck. That severely hampers it's effectiveness. If you draw into it later, it's basically dead.
Bouncing the Blossom doesn't do much. It's not like your game ends that fast, so they'll undoubtedly resolve it again and you've only really gained yourself one turn. It's the permission that makes the Fae matchup awful, anyway, not so much the enchantment.
Yeah if you're hellbent on stopping BB, then I'd rather see negate in that spot...and even that is meh. A better strategy is to run one of the proven good cards, and bring negate in from the SB to stop BB and Cryptic.
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5 years ago ::
May 23, 2008 - 9:33AM
#752
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Date Joined:
Mar 12, 2007
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I've been testing a LD deck that uses Mannequin and Profane Command to recur Fulminator Mage and Avalanche Riders in a similar way to this thread. It works really well. It is R/B and runs Demigod of Revenge as the finisher. I eschewed spot removal and more creatures for mana accel. I often get a turn 2 LD and continue blowing up lands until I stabalize late game.
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5 years ago ::
May 23, 2008 - 3:45PM
#753
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Date Joined:
Feb 25, 2008
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Visions is only good on the first turn in your deck. That severely hampers it's effectiveness. If you draw into it later, it's basically dead.
Bouncing the Blossom doesn't do much. It's not like your game ends that fast, so they'll undoubtedly resolve it again and you've only really gained yourself one turn. It's the permission that makes the Fae matchup awful, anyway, not so much the enchantment.
I get that returning it to their hand doesn't do much, but really that's the beauty of it. They are going to drop that as soon as possible. If I counter it(which is still preferable), then they move on to their next spell. If it's bounced they might just cast it again. I think we can all agree that tying up a Fae player's mana on their turn is a good thing.
I also know that Visions is best on your first turn, but to say that it's dead turn two just seems silly to me. Also, in an earlier post you said that we can't just sit and wait for it to tick down like the Fae. This deck has no other T1 plays otherwise. If I can cast it turn one, then that's awesome and I'll continue doing everything else as normal on the following turns.
Seriously, if everyone is worried about the permission aspect of the match-up, what better way is there to fight that than draw 4 cards on turn 5? That should give you plenty of ammo, especially if they didn't play one on turn 1.
On the subject of only gaining one turn: This is a tempo deck no? Who said I'm going to stop fighting after they resolve BB? Much of the Fae's strength is in their numbers(Spellstutter and Scion). If you can keep them off of those numbers for even a little while, you're looking much better.
Am I way off here?
I want to run this at regionals, if plenty of aggro decks turn up in Hollywood. I suspect they will.
Match ups I'm worried about: The Fae(obviously)
Reveillark
LD
SB suggestions welcome.
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5 years ago ::
May 23, 2008 - 4:19PM
#754
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2003
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I get that returning it to their hand doesn't do much, but really that's the beauty of it. They are going to drop that as soon as possible. If I counter it(which is still preferable), then they move on to their next spell. If it's bounced they might just cast it again. I think we can all agree that tying up a Fae player's mana on their turn is a good thing.
Not in the abstract. It's only good when it allows you to resolve something gamebreaking. Nothing in your deck does that; in fact, the turns where they're recasting Bitterblossom, you're doing pretty much nothing. Time Walking only benefits when you actually do something on the turn you Time Walk.
I also know that Visions is best on your first turn, but to say that it's dead turn two just seems silly to me. Also, in an earlier post you said that we can't just sit and wait for it to tick down like the Fae. This deck has no other T1 plays otherwise. If I can cast it turn one, then that's awesome and I'll continue doing everything else as normal on the following turns.
Turn 2 is still okay, actually, but that means Visions is only a good play on T1 and 2, which roughly equates to 'In your opening hand'. Any turn after that, it's a blank. It's terrible deckbuilding to run cards that are relevant ONLY for one turn.
Ponder, on the other hand, is much more useful throughout the game. It sets up your mana early on, and then allows you to dig for threats and answers without losing tempo in the midgame. It's why a lot of Merfolk decks are dropping Visions for Ponder.
Seriously, if everyone is worried about the permission aspect of the match-up, what better way is there to fight that than draw 4 cards on turn 5? That should give you plenty of ammo, especially if they didn't play one on turn 1.
Spellstutter Sprite auto-counters Visions.
On the subject of only gaining one turn: This is a tempo deck no? Who said I'm going to stop fighting after they resolve BB? Much of the Fae's strength is in their numbers(Spellstutter and Scion). If you can keep them off of those numbers for even a little while, you're looking much better.
This logic is good, but misses that you're only gaining one turn when your turns are still reasonably empty. You're spending your meaningless turn gaining an extra meaningless turn, which leaves you with little.
It also means your Aggro matchup is more limited; Riftwing is only bad in the RDW matchup, and Venser is good in any.
Has anyone actually tried using Bitterblossom over Mind Stone in this deck? 8 turn 2 plays, being 4 Blossom, 4 Riftwing, seems pretty good, and Blossom at least counter the opponents'.
It's really not even about giving niche cards to black.
It should be about giving black cards to Niche.
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5 years ago ::
May 23, 2008 - 10:24PM
#755
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So, Here are some FNM results for you all. Match 1: G/W Elf Aggro - 2-0 Win These games went rather smoothly. He dropped some threats early game both times, most of which went down to evoked Shriekmaws, and and stolen with Sowers. The only notable thing I had some trouble dealing with was an Oversoul of Dusk, which I had no answers to. After Damnations though, he scooped. Game 2 involved a Puppeteer Clique'd Cloudthresher. lol. :D Match 2: Fae - 0-2 Early sages and mulldrifters resolved, but other staples did not. I took out a mistbind clique, just to have another show up and tap me out. Shreikmaw'd the second clique, but EoT Scion into another Scion sealed the game. Ovverrun by bitterblossom tokens game 2. Not a single SB Teferi (and I cast all 3!) resolved. Match 3: Bye Match 4: Fae - 1-2 Game 1 was very close. He didn't get blossom out until late game, by then I had enough threats left to make a strong offensive. He championed Bitterblossom with mistbind clique to stop from dying at 2 life, which tapped me out, unable to play damnation next turn and seal the game, which resulted in a loss for me. Game 2, I managed to make bitterblossom a problem for the player by keeping constant pressure on the board, forcing him to tap out to answer my threats, then damnation when there were too many tokens. Turn to Mist + Damnation was key here. Game 3 I lost by Sower'ing a scion of Oona, to have another scion flash in, making it untargetable. 2 Damnations cast same turn to push for the win, both stopped by spellstutter sprites. Again, no resolving Teferi. *sigh...* 
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5 years ago ::
May 24, 2008 - 4:11AM
#756
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2006
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Vs Bitterblossom  you'll actually want to bounce their token if you have nothing else to play (via Riftwing Cloudskate  and Venser, Shaper Savant  ). I suggest running 4 Bitterblossom (if you can afford it) from the SB vs Faeries.
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5 years ago ::
May 24, 2008 - 7:03AM
#757
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5 years ago ::
May 24, 2008 - 7:06PM
#758
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Date Joined:
Feb 25, 2008
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My deck so far
Show
It has done well so far, but I've only played against aggo and RDL so far. Pre-SB the RDL match up is probably one of the most boring games I've ever played. SBing out creature kill and board in Extirpate and Stupor helps out a ton. I'm actually considering dropping Vision, because I realize the flaw in it, but so far it has been amazing. Edit: Just played a LD deck and I destroyed it! Extirpate and Stupor were amazing in this match up. Also played a persist combo deck which I also tore up post board. Current record 5-0
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5 years ago ::
May 25, 2008 - 1:50PM
#759
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- Banner Banneret
- Forum Guide
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Wafo-Tapa's sort of mannequin: Makeshift Wafo-TapaMain Deck 3 x *Cloudthresher  4 x *Kitchen Finks  4 x *Mulldrifter  1 x *Oona, Queen of the Fae  4 x *Wall of Roots  ----------------------------------------------------------------- 16 x creatures  -------------------------------- 4 x *Careful Consideration  4 x *Cryptic Command  3 x *Firespout  3 x *Makeshift Mannequin  4 x *Rune Snag  2 x *Slaughter Pact  --------------------------------------------------------- 20 x other spells  --------------------------------------- 1 x *Dreadship Reef  2 x *Fungal Reaches  1 x *Grove of the Burnwillows  2 x *Mystic Gate  4 x *Reflecting Pool  2 x *Sunken Ruins  4 x *Vivid Creek  4 x *Vivid Grove  4 x *Yavimaya Coast  ------------------------------ 24 x Lands  Sideboard 1 x *Cloudthresher 1 x *Detritivore  3 x *Mind Shatter  1 x *Murderous Redcap  2 x *Primal Command  1 x *Shriekmaw  3 x *Teferi's Moat  3 x *Wispmare  ----------------------------------------------------------------- 15 x sideboard cards  My biggest thought when I saw this...8 Vivids?
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5 years ago ::
May 25, 2008 - 8:13PM
#760
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