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5 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2008 - 10:53PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Dec 27, 2005
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Undying Flames  At what points can this be or it's effect be countered, and what type  counter  is needed to do so at those points.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2008 - 10:58PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Feb 28, 2005
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If you counter the initial Undying Flames that your opponent actually plays, then none of its effects happen. That includes the Epic effect. Your opponent won't get a copy of Undying Flames every turn, but he/she will still be able to play spells. This is your only opportunity to stop your opponent from getting an Undying Flames every turn. Once Undying Flames resolves, the Epic effect is "set" and will trigger on every one of your opponent's upkeeps for the rest of the game. You can use Stifle  to counter the Epic ability, or Counterspell  to counter the copy of Undying Flames that the ability creates, but neither will stop your opponent from getting another copy next turn - it'll just grant you a reprieve for this turn. Also note that since Undying Flames is targeted, you can counter it by making  the  target  illegal  . If you do, you get the same effect as you would with Counterspell - if you stop the first Undying Flames this way, the spell doesn't get copied every turn.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2008 - 10:58PM
#3
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- Celestial Teapots are broken!
Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2007
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Undying Flames is just a spell when played, so something like Cancel  would work against it. Alternatively, since it's targeted, making that target illegal will make the spell be countered on resolution. If it's countered, none of its effects happen, including the Epic. If, however, the Undying Flames does resolve, its Epic will stay active for the rest of the game. At the beginning of each of its controller's upkeep, a triggered ability will be put on the stack. If that ability resolves, the spell is copied (minus the Epic). So you could either Stifle the triggered ability or Cancel the spell copy, but you'd then have to one of those during each of the player's upkeeps.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2008 - 11:01PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Dec 27, 2005
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So, wants the player starts removing cards from thier deck, all opportunities to respond have passed and the effect can no longer be countered correct?
*edit* Other than damage redirects/nulifications
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5 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2008 - 11:03PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Feb 28, 2005
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Once you let your opponent start removing cards from library, the spell has started to resolve. You can't do anything ( including damage prevention  ) at this point. In particular, you can't wait to see what card your opponent hits before deciding whether to counter the Flames or to prevent the damage. (You must set damage prevention effects up before the damage that you want to prevent happens.) However, if your opponent announces Undying Flames and immediately goes for his/her library, you can force him/her to "back up" so that you can respond to the spell.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2008 - 11:22PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Dec 27, 2005
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so if i have a Counterspell on a Scepter and he already played Undying Flames its pretty much game over for him right?
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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 5:30AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Oct 18, 2007
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so if i have a Counterspell on a Scepter and he already played Undying Flames its pretty much game over for him right?
Well, it means that you can keep countering the Epic copies, and he can't play any spells, so his opportunities to hurt you will be quite limited. He can still play abilities, though, so whether it's "game over" depends on what else he might have going for him.
DCI Level 2 Judge Please use autocard when you ask a question about specific cards: [ c]Serra Angel[ /c] -> Serra Angel 
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