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5 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2008 - 8:00PM
#121
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Date Joined:
Oct 18, 2007
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a young man was arguing quite vehemently that if you Champion a token and then the Champion leaves play, that the token comes back into play. Many of us tried to tell him he was wrong but he kept at it. Now for my edification, I wanted to know if we were right
1) For future reference, the FAQ thread is for suggesting additions to the FAQ. If you have a question you need to have answered, please make a new thread for that question.
2) Since you're already here, the answer to your question is that you were right. Once a token leaves play, it ceases to exists and it can never come back.
DCI Level 2 Judge Please use autocard when you ask a question about specific cards: [ c]Serra Angel[ /c] -> Serra Angel 
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5 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2008 - 3:24PM
#122
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- Celestial Teapots are broken!
Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2007
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The Bannerets have earned their status as FAQ.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2008 - 3:53PM
#123
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The Bannerets have been added to the Cards & Combos FAQ in addition to their existing mention on the Morningtide FAQ.
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real.
--Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
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5 years ago ::
Feb 17, 2008 - 7:10PM
#124
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2006
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For inclusion to the FAQ (if deemed appropriate): Prevention / Replacement effects: Comprehensive rules
Show
419.1. Replacement and prevention effects are continuous effects that watch for a particular event to happen and then completely or partially replace that event. These effects act like “shields” around whatever they’re affecting. [indent] Q: What are prevention and replacement effects?
A: Prevention and replacement effects are effects that change one event into another as it happens. They're identified by the word "instead." For example, Pariah  reads "All damage that would be dealt to you is dealt to enchanted creature instead."Q: So how does that work?
A: Any time an action is to be performed, such as dealing damage, or drawing a card, check to see if there are any replacement effects trying to modify the event. If there are, replace the part of the event with the new action. For example, you control a Grizzly Bears  enchanted with Pariah . I play Shock  , targetting you. Shock resolves. Unmodified, we have the action: Shock deals 2 damage to you. Pariah says if you would be dealt damage, it's dealt to the enchanted creature instead. So we apply that to the above action: Shock deals 2 damage [s]to you to Grizzly Bears . Notice how the Shock is still the source of the damage. All that has been changed is how the damage is dealt. Furthermore, this happens during Shock 's resolution. Q: What if there's two replacement effects trying to change the same event?
A: The affected player or controller of the affected object (or owner if there is no controller) decides which effect to apply first. Then, they apply any that are still applicable. Again, if there's still multiple that are applicable, they pick one to apply, and keep going until all have either applied, or are no longer applicable. For example: I control Hostility  and Furnace of Rath  and play Shock targetting you. In response, you play Bandage  targetting yourself. Bandage resolves, setting up a replacement effect (and you draw a card). Now Shock resolves. Our original event: Shock deals 2 damage to you. We have three things trying to modify this event, so as the affected player, you must choose which to apply first. Say you apply them Bandage , Hostility , Furnace . Bandage reduces the damage: Shock deals [s]2 1 damage to you. Hostility turns the damage into creatures: Shock [s]deals 1 damage to you puts a 3/1 red Elemental Shaman creature token with haste into play. Furnace of Rath is no longer applicable, because no damage is being dealt, the event remains unchanged: Shock puts a 3/1 red Elemental Shaman creature token with haste into play. Notice how the order matters. If you had chosen to apply Furnace of Rath first, Hostility second, and Bandage last, it would look very different: Shock deals [s]2 4 damage to you. Shock [s]deals [s]2 4 damage to you puts 4 3/1 red Elemental Shaman creature tokens with haste into play. Shock puts 4 3/1 red Elemental Shaman creature tokens with haste into play. I end up with four tokens instead of one! Q: What happens if I have two effects that keep applying? Say I control two Furnace of Rath s and I Shock you. One doubles it, then the other, then the first, then the second again. Do I deal infinite damage?
A: No. Each effect will only apply to the event once. So the 2 damage becomes 4, and the 4 damage becomes 8. You deal 8 damage. Q: Can one replacement effect modify an event such that another now applies?
A: Yes. Say I control Cho Manno, Revolutionary  enchanted with Pariah . You play Shock targetting me. Pariah redirects it to Cho Manno . Now his effect applies, even though it had nothing to do with the original event. He takes no damage.[/indent] I'm sure it needs some editting / formatting, but I wanted to get the ball rolling. Gerdef
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5 years ago ::
Feb 18, 2008 - 12:08AM
#125
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2004
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Q: What if there's two replacement effects trying to change the same event?
A: The affected player or controller of the affected object (or owner if there is no controller) decides which effect to apply first. Then, they apply any that are still applicable. Again, if there's still multiple that are applicable, they pick one to apply, and keep going until all have either applied, or are no longer applicable.
For example: I control Hostility and Furnace of Rath and play Shock targetting you. In response, you play Bandage targetting yourself. Bandage resolves, setting up a replacement effect (and you draw a card). Now Shock resolves.
Our original event:
Shock deals 2 damage to you.
We have three things trying to modify this event, so as the affected player, you must choose which to apply first. Say you apply them Bandage , Hostility , Furnace .
You do not choose the entire sequence up front. You start by choosing one to apply. After applying it, you see what the new set of applicable effects is.
419.9a If two or more replacement or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object’s controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply. Then the other effect applies if it is still appropriate. If one or more of the applicable replacement effects is a self-replacement effect (see rule 419.6d), that effect is applied before any other replacement effects. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 103.4).
419.9b A replacement effect can become applicable to an event as the result of another replacement effect that modifies the event.
In this case, you start by choosing Bandage's effect as the one to apply.
Bandage reduces the damage:
Shock deals [s]2 1 damage to you.
Now Hostility and Furnace are applicable, and you choose Hostility.
Hostility turns the damage into creatures:
Shock [s]deals 1 damage to you puts a 3/1 red Elemental Shaman creature token with haste into play.
Now no such effects are applicable, so you proceed with the event.
No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 18, 2008 - 6:54AM
#126
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2004
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[indent]Q: What are prevention and replacement effects?
A: Prevention and replacement effects are effects that change one event into another as it happens. They're identified by the word "instead."
For example, Pariah reads "All damage that would be dealt to you is dealt to enchanted creature instead."
I'd be inclined to a fuller answer:
A: Prevention and replacement effects are effects that change one event into another as it happens. Prevention effects can be identified by the word "prevent" and most replacement effects by the words "instead" or "skip".
Q: "Most" replacement effects?
A: Yes, effects that modify how something comes into play, or how it is turned face up, are also replacement effects. Abilities that trigger on an object coming into play or turning face up are not replacement effects.
[indent]Examples: Clone  's replacement effect reads: "As Clone comes into play, you may choose a creature in play. If you do, Clone comes into play as a copy of that creature."
Vesuvan Shapeshifter  's replacement effect reads: "As Vesuvan Shapeshifter comes into play or is turned face up, you may choose another creature in play. If you do, until Vesuvan Shapeshifter is turned face down, it becomes a copy of that creature and gains "At the beginning of your upkeep, you may turn this creature face down." "
Bramblewood Paragon  's replacement effect reads: "Each other Warrior creature you control comes into play with an additional +1/+1 counter on it."[/indent]
M:tG Rules Advisor
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5 years ago ::
Feb 19, 2008 - 7:13PM
#127
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Hmmm... I've been wanting to keep the number of posts in the FAQ down low enough that the entire document was on the same page. My reasoning is that readers are less likely to overlook portions of the FAQ if they don't know there's more than one page.
Am I just being a worrywart about that?
If so, what do you think about splitting Combat out of the Turns section into its own post (I've noticed that some people seem to be having more trouble than normal finding it), reformatting the Lands/Mana section and adding sections for Planeswalkers and Tribals?
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real.
--Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
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5 years ago ::
Feb 19, 2008 - 8:00PM
#128
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2001
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Hmmm... I've been wanting to keep the number of posts in the FAQ down low enough that the entire document was on the same page. My reasoning is that readers are less likely to overlook portions of the FAQ if they don't know there's more than one page.
Am I just being a worrywart about that?
If so, what do you think about splitting Combat out of the Turns section into its own post (I've noticed that some people seem to be having more trouble than normal finding it), reformatting the Lands/Mana section and adding sections for Planeswalkers and Tribals?
I think all of these things would fix more problems than they would create.
The Land/Mana FAQ has actually been bugging me for a while. I think it needs to be shorter (what it's explaining isn't that complicated) and make the "Land is not mana, mana is not land" point explicit much, much earlier.
Of course, I also wish regulars other than me would respond to your questions more. I'm sure there's a reason why it's the way it is and I can't be the only person with opinions or suggestions.
Jeff Heikkinen
DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
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5 years ago ::
Feb 19, 2008 - 8:06PM
#129
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Hmmm... I've been wanting to keep the number of posts in the FAQ down low enough that the entire document was on the same page. My reasoning is that readers are less likely to overlook portions of the FAQ if they don't know there's more than one page.
Am I just being a worrywart about that?
If so, what do you think about splitting Combat out of the Turns section into its own post (I've noticed that some people seem to be having more trouble than normal finding it), reformatting the Lands/Mana section and adding sections for Planeswalkers and Tribals?
When I need to find something, I just look for it in the table of contents in the first post. If I don't find it there, then I start a new thread about it. Personally, I think the number of posts is irrelevent, as long as the first one is formatted in an easy-to-read, easy-to-find-what-your-looking-for way.
DCI Level 1 Judge Please autocard: [c ]Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon[/c ] = Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon  [ c=Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon]Skittles[/c] = Skittles Cards do what they say they do. No more. No less.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2008 - 6:00AM
#130
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- Mogic Puzzle Master
- Plays Well With Others
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I have to agree with goawayugh. I doubt anybody reads through the entire thing. You use the links in the first post. So wether or not it is on the first page becomes irrelevant. I for one never even noticed it fits on the first page (and actually assumed it went over it easily).
Secondly, I think if people take the effort to look something up in the FAQ they are willing to read a longer text. I can't imagine someone bothering to look it up in the FAQ but than not reading it 'cause it's too long'. Either they won't check and just post or will check and read it.
DCI Level 2 Judge
"That's what's so stupid about the whole magic thing, you know," Rincewind said. "You spend twenty years learning the spell that makes nude virgins appear in your bedroom, and then you're so poisoned by quicksilver fumes and half-blind from reading old grimoires that you can't remember what happens next."
- Terry Pratchett, The Colour Of Magic
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