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1 year ago ::
Jul 14, 2009 - 3:00PM
#1
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This thread is for discussion of this week's Savor the Flavor, which goes live Wednesday on magicthegathering.com.
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1 year ago ::
Jul 14, 2009 - 3:41PM
#2
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According to Maro this is going to be an article on Functional reprints.
It should be a good read. Though hopefully Doug will explain the reason for the functional reprints in a way that doesn't anger alot of people.
… and then, the squirrels came.
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1 year ago ::
Jul 14, 2009 - 4:55PM
#3
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According to Maro this is going to be an article on Functional reprints.
It should be a good read. Though hopefully Doug will explain the reason for the functional reprints in a way that doesn't anger alot of people.
MaRo said that Doug would have an article sometime, not that it was THIS WEEk. The title could just as easily imply that what's coming is a flavor look at the art of the set. We got one for Tenth, after all.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count."
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1 year ago ::
Jul 14, 2009 - 5:40PM
#4
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Oh my, can't you wait a few hours? 
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1 year ago ::
Jul 14, 2009 - 9:19PM
#5
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I don't agree with some of his reasons... but then I'm not a Vorthos. The fact that nearly 20% of the new cards were functional reprints still bothers me a little.
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1 year ago ::
Jul 14, 2009 - 9:39PM
#6
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Skyhunter Prowler is a remarkably dumb name, falling into the old trope of "nounverbers," but Le Chat doesn't see how it has a "distinctively metallic tang." Certainly Wizards can change the art and flavor text if they want; they have done so plenty of times in the past. (And this set certainly wouldn't be the one to say, "Well, this is just the way it's always been done.") Essence Scatter still sounds like black removal to this cat's ears. Flying Men comes from a very specific fantasy setting from Arabian Nights, as found in its flavor text; it was a shame not to expand on this. It would also have been nice to reprint the card with an updated creature type. "Human" doesn't cut it. Odd that Doug compares Raise Dead to Unearth , since Unearth has the very effect he was trying to avoid -- sounding like it was being put into play. Better to have left it alone. "Raise Dead" has an innate punniness to it -- the card's being physically lifted up, to your hand -- which excites LC's inner geek. Disentomb (not even a word!) does none of this. This card was better, btw, when it was thought to return any creature card in the graveyard to its owner's hand. Much, much better. Orcish Artillery is a loss, and simply points out Wizards' laxity: You really can't come up with some way to distinguish Orcs and Goblins? Really? You really can't support Orcs as a tribe, or acknowledge that at one time you did? Runeclaw Bear 
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1 year ago ::
Jul 14, 2009 - 9:49PM
#7
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Regarding the Grizzly Bears, this is one area that I really think flavor loses out. I believe, which is of course nothing more then my opinion, that having real world equivalents makes the game EASIER TO GRASP, with the ability to compare things to their fantasy counterparts. Take, for example, Grizzly Bears . You look at a bear in zoo or on National Geographic or something, and you watch it knock over a TREE. You think, wow, that's pretty strong. He'd take me out pretty quickly, because I certainly can't knock down a tree with one or two punches. Then you look at something like, say, Elite Vanguard , and suddenly, that lowly 2/1 looks A LOT stronger. Sure, he can't take a hit like a bear, but he can KNOCK DOWN A TREE. That dude is badass! Or, with a little magical help, even a waif-of-a-girl like Azorius Guildmage can knock down hundred year old terrain pieces! Or look, if I shock something, I know just how much it hurts, because it's doing (at least) as much damage as a freaking bear MAULING you to death. Or Elven Rite can make something as wimpy looking as Birds of Paradise be able to destroy a freaking Grizzly Bear in a one on one fight, and walk (fly?) away to DO IT AGAIN next turn. When you stop to consider, what the heck do a [card=Abyssal Nightstalker] crazy nightmare[/card], a [card=Adarkar Unicorn] majestic unicorn[/card], a [card= Copper-Leaf Angel] robotic angel[/card], a [card=Granite Gargoyle] tasty gargoyle[/card], and a [card= Riftwing Cloudskate] illusionary flying manta ray[/card] all have in common? They are ALL AS STRONG AS A BEAR. Do you see where I am going with this? All this information, interactions, and appreciation from all these other cards wouldn't be possible if I didn't see something I already knew (in this case, a bear). I don't know how strong a Runeclaw Bear is. Presumably, the regular bear wasn't strong enough, because someone had to enchant it to make it stronger and meaner. Which means... what, exactly? Just how much damage does a 2/2 do, anyway? Could it knock over a tree? Or be able to take on my car in a fight? I don't know how strong my car is, but a bear is a 2/2, apparently, and I DO know that sometimes the car looses in that fight. Why couldn't you just change it to Grizzly Bear (no 's') and be done with it?
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1 year ago ::
Jul 14, 2009 - 9:54PM
#8
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Skyhunter Prowler is a remarkably dumb name, falling into the old trope of "nounverbers," but Le Chat doesn't see how it has a "distinctively metallic tang." Certainly Wizards can change the art and flavor text if they want; they have done so plenty of times in the past. (And this set certainly wouldn't be the one to say, "Well, this is just the way it's always been done.")
Essence Scatter still sounds like black removal to this cat's ears.
Flying Men comes from a very specific fantasy setting from Arabian Nights, as found in its flavor text; it was a shame not to expand on this. It would also have been nice to reprint the card with an updated creature type. "Human" doesn't cut it.
Odd that Doug compares Raise Dead to Unearth, since Unearth has the very effect he was trying to avoid -- sounding like it was being put into play. Better to have left it alone. "Raise Dead" has an innate punniness to it -- the card's being physically lifted up, to your hand -- which excites LC's inner geek. Disentomb (not even a word!) does none of this. This card was better, btw, when it was thought to return any creature card in the graveyard to its owner's hand. Much, much better.
Orcish Artillery is a loss, and simply points out Wizards' laxity: You really can't come up with some way to distinguish Orcs and Goblins? Really? You really can't support Orcs as a tribe, or acknowledge that at one time you did?
Runeclaw Bear
I definitely agree that changing Orcish Artillery to Goblin Artillery is straight-up stupid. Orcs get absolutely NO love, and yet they're just as classic as Goblins as far as fantasy flavor goes, perhaps even more. Red needs NEW tribes, quit giving us goblins goblins goblins goblins goblins and more goblins!
Runeclaw Bear is ridiculous. It barely looks different than a normal bear, it doesn't sound particularly magical, it's just a stupid change. If you dislike the flavor of Grizzly Bears, STOP REPRINTING THE DANG THING!
Essence Scatter still sounds black, it's just a bit more vague. Yet another dumb change.
Threaten into Act of Treason? Why is red getting this creature to commit treason? At least with Threaten, you know why; he's being threatened!
And finally, Mind Control is NOT better than Persuasion, at least not as a functional reprint. It could have been great for a NEW control magic card, but Persuasion perfectly encapsulated what blue would do, and how it would do it.
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1 year ago ::
Jul 14, 2009 - 9:57PM
#9
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Runeclaw bear is the only thing here that really annoys me. Not for any good reason, I just really really liked grizzly bears, and giving them worse art, a name that is harder to empathize with, and less inherent flavor (from already knowing what a grizzly bear is and does) just for the sake of them being more bland fantasy  is annoying to say the least.  I also think the cat on savannah lions is considerably cooler than another boring human soldier, and that persuasion has much better art than the very subpar mind control art,(though I do agree mind control is a better concept than persuasion) but these are minor issues compared to the loss of bears. 
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1 year ago ::
Jul 14, 2009 - 10:11PM
#10
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I agreed with most of what Doug said, which is a surprise because I was initially quite upset at many of the functional reprints getting name changes. Two things I do not agree with... 1 - To me, Persuasion is a much cooler name than Mind Control. To me, mind control sounds like black magic. Persuasion has a more blue feel to it. You can image the blue mage using his superior magic and intellect to force an opponent to yield to his will, almost like using a Jedi mind trick. 2 - I find it unfortunate that Grizzly Bears got cut out. While magic is a game placed in a fantasy setting, I don't believe that real world animals have to be avoided. There are many fantasy stories/worlds in which real world animals exist. Green's always had a large number of creatures based on real world animals, from Squirrels and Elephants to Tigers and Apes. If we're going to change Grizzly Bears to something, we should at least make sure it doesn't resemble some sort of Pokemon... These changes show a general trend in the flavor of Magic. It's shifting. I don't mean the specific block flavor, but the general feel. The "AWESOMENESS" level is going up, and the maturity is going down. Planeswalkers are more like comic book heroes than the wise, mighty magic users that they once were. (Look at Urza, or the planeswalkers depicted in the [url=http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?output=spoiler&method=visual&name=+[planeswalker%27s]
| type%3d+[planeswalker%27s] |
subtype%3d+[planeswalker%27s] |
text%3d+[planeswalker%27s]]http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?output=spoiler&method=visual&name=+[planeswalker%27s] |
type%3d+[planeswalker%27s] |
subtype%3d+[planeswalker%27s] |
text%3d+[planeswalker%27s][/url] cycle) Thoughts?
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