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5 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2008 - 6:23AM #1
sneezachoo
  • blesstoise
Date Joined: Dec 20, 2006
Posts: 194
You rules people are beautiful, what you do is beautiful.

First, about the resolution of Barren Glory , if I have an upkeep cost from Pact of Negation is it possible to win via barren glory before I lose to Pact of Negation provided I have no other permanents besides Barren Glory ?

Also, can I do anything at the beginning of my upkeep before Barren Glory checks itself? Say, at the beginning of my upkeep, could I sacrifice all my lands (Edit: to something like Greater Gargadon )?
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2008 - 6:30AM #2
Argus_Panoptes
  • Trumps Judges
Date Joined: Sep 17, 2004
Posts: 5,196

sneezachoo wrote:

You rules people are beautiful, what you do is beautiful.

First, about the resolution of Barren Glory , if I have an upkeep cost from Pact of Negation is it possible to win via barren glory before I lose to Pact of Negation provided I have no other permanents besides Barren Glory ?


Yes.

410.3. If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she chooses. (See rule 103.4.) Then players once again check for and resolve state-based effects until none are generated, then abilities that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats until no new state-based effects are generated and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate player gets priority.

sneezachoo wrote:

Also, can I do anything at the beginning of my upkeep before Barren Glory checks itself?  Say, at the beginning of my upkeep, could I sacrifice all my lands (Edit: to something like Greater Gargadon )?


No.

303. Upkeep Step

303.1. As the upkeep step begins, any abilities that trigger at the beginning of that upkeep step and any abilities that triggered during the turn’s untap step go on the stack. (See rule 410, "Handling Triggered Abilities.") Then the active player gets priority and players may play spells and abilities.

No, I am not a judge.  That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2008 - 6:37AM #3
sneezachoo
  • blesstoise
Date Joined: Dec 20, 2006
Posts: 194
Thank you!

But in regard to rule 303.1, would that include cummulative upkeep. Could I not pay cummulative upkeep costs on permanents before Barren's triggered ability?
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2008 - 6:37AM #4
Merestil_Haye
Date Joined: Aug 6, 2003
Posts: 4,171

sneezachoo wrote:

You rules people are beautiful, what you do is beautiful.

First, about the resolution of Barren Glory , if I have an upkeep cost from Pact of Negation is it possible to win via barren glory before I lose to Pact of Negation provided I have no other permanents besides Barren Glory ?


If Barren Glory triggers, then since you control both that triggered ability and the Pact's delayed trigger, you can stack them in any order you choose. If the Glory trigger resolves, you win the game and therefore the game is over.

Also, can I do anything at the beginning of my upkeep before Barren Glory checks itself? Say, at the beginning of my upkeep, could I sacrifice all my lands (Edit: to something like Greater Gargadon )?


No, you cannot.

The beginning of your upkeep is the point in gametime that your upkeep starts. By the time you get permission to play anything in your upkeep, the start of your upkeep has been and gone.

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2008 - 7:21AM #5
IthilanorStPete
Date Joined: Sep 25, 2007
Posts: 2,686
However, once you put Barren Glory's triggered ability and other triggered abilities on the stack, you can respond to it by playing abilities i.e. sacrificing your lands to Gargadon. When the triggered ability resolves, then and only then does it check if you have no permanents and no cards in hand. (I think)
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2008 - 8:03AM #6
Merestil_Haye
Date Joined: Aug 6, 2003
Posts: 4,171

IthilanorStPete wrote:

However, once you put Barren Glory's triggered ability and other triggered abilities on the stack, you can respond to it by playing abilities i.e. sacrificing your lands to Gargadon. When the triggered ability resolves, then and only then does it check if you have no permanents and no cards in hand. (I think)


That is not the case.

At the start of your upkeep, Barren Glory checks to see if you control any other permanents, and whether you have any cards in your hand.

If you control even one other permanent, or have even one card in your hand, Barren Glory does not trigger at all. You never get to put the ability on the stack.

This is because the ability is written "AT the start of your upkeep, IF , THEN . This is called an "Intervening If" condition, because it intervenes between the trigger and the effect.

If the condition is not true at the start of your upkeep, the ability does not fire. Additionally, if it is true when the ability fires, but no longer true when the ability resolves, the ability does nothing.

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2008 - 9:04AM #7
sneezachoo
  • blesstoise
Date Joined: Dec 20, 2006
Posts: 194
Can someone address cumulative upkeep in regard to Barren Glory .
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2008 - 9:07AM #8
cyphern
Date Joined: Jan 19, 2003
Posts: 17,671

sneezachoo]Can someone address cumulative upkeep in regard to Barren Glory.[/quote wrote:

Can someone address cumulative upkeep in regard to Barren Glory.


Merestil Haye wrote:

At the start of your upkeep, Barren Glory checks to see if you control any other permanents, and whether you have any cards in your hand.

If you control even one other permanent, or have even one card in your hand, Barren Glory does not trigger at all. You never get to put the ability on the stack.


If you have permanents in play (which is the only way you could have something with cumulative upkeep), then Barren Glory's ability will not trigger at all. Even if you then sacrifice all of your permanents, it is too late for Barren Glory to trigger.

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2008 - 9:30AM #9
IthilanorStPete
Date Joined: Sep 25, 2007
Posts: 2,686

Merestil Haye wrote:

That is not the case.

At the start of your upkeep, Barren Glory checks to see if you control any other permanents, and whether you have any cards in your hand.

If you control even one other permanent, or have even one card in your hand, Barren Glory does not trigger at all. You never get to put the ability on the stack.

This is because the ability is written "AT the start of your upkeep, IF , THEN . This is called an "Intervening If" condition, because it intervenes between the trigger and the effect.

If the condition is not true at the start of your upkeep, the ability does not fire. Additionally, if it is true when the ability fires, but no longer true when the ability resolves, the ability does nothing.


Oh, ok. Thanks.

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2008 - 10:20AM #10
CarstenHaese
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Date Joined: Oct 18, 2007
Posts: 4,046

cyphern wrote:

If you have permanents in play (which is the only way you could have something with cumulative upkeep), then Barren Glory's ability will not trigger at all.


It is possible, but unlikely, to control only Barren Glory and have a cumulative upkeep requirement: An opponent's Opalescence turning Barren Glory into a creature and an opponent's Mana Chains (or similar) giving it cumulative upkeep.

I doubt that the OP had that particular scenario in mind, but your statement was a bit too absolute.

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