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Switch to Forum Live View 3/10/2009 SF: "The Timmy Manifesto"
4 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2009 - 12:42AM #11
fractal
Date Joined: Oct 23, 2003
Posts: 2,225

RPJesus wrote:

I must disagree slightly. While it's true that timmy =/= inexperienced etc. I do think that most players start as Timmies.


Well, another way to put it is that a new player is unlikely to be able to satisfy his or her Spike or Johnny tendencies with Magic. Winning is hard when you don't know what you're doing, and building clever decks and making clever plays is difficult before you know the rules well and have a good collection. So a new player really has to be playing for Timmy reasons, because the other two aren't viable options at that point.

Thanks to everyone who helped with the design of the plane of Golamo in the Great Designer Search 2!

My Decks Show
These are the decks I have assembled at the moment:

Tournament Decks (4) Show
Kicker Aggro (Invasion Block)
Sunforger / Izzet Guildmage Midrange (Ravnica/Time Spiral/Xth Standard)
Dragonstorm Combo (Time Spiral/Lorwyn/Xth Standard)
Bant Midrange (Lorwyn/Shards/M10 Standard)

Casual Multiplayer Decks (50) Show
Angel Resurrection
Casual Soul Sisters
Sindbad 's Adventures with Djinn of Wishes
Sphinx-Bone Wand Buyback
Morph (No Instants or Sorceries)
Cabal Coffers Control
Zombie Aggro
Hungry, Hungry Greater Gargadon / War Elemental
Flashfires / Boil / Ruination - Boom!
Call of the Wild
Teysa, Orzhov Scion with Twilight Drover , Sun Titan , and Hivestone Slivers
Rebels
Cairn Wanderer Knights
Only Gold and Spells
Captain Sisay Toolbox
Spellweaver Helix Combo
Merfolk Wizards
Izzet Guildmage / The Unspeakable Arcane Combo
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and his Wizards
Creatureless Wild Research / Reins of Power Madness
Creatureless Pyromancer Ascension
Anarchist Living Death
Anvil of Bogardan Madness
Shamen with Goblin Game / Wound Reflection Combo
Mass damage Quest for Pure Flame
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle / Clear the Land with 40+ Lands
Doubling Season Thallid s
Juniper Order Ranger Graft/Tokens
Elf Archer Druids
Equilibrium / Aluren Combo
Experiment Kraj Combo
Reap Combo
False Cure / Kavu Predator Combo
Savra, Queen of the Golgari Sacrifice/Dredge
Elf Warriors
Eight-Post
Sneak Attack Where Ancients Tread
Zur the Enchanter with Opal creatures
Tamanoa / Kavu Predator / Collapsing Borders
Esper Aggro
Mishra, Artificer Prodigy and his Darksteel Reactor
Theft and Control
Unearth Aggro
Soul's Fire Vampires
Devour Tokens
Phytohydra with Powerstone Minefield
Treefolk
Friendly? Questing Phelddagrif
Slivers
Dragon Arch Fun

I'm probably forgetting a few...

EDH Decks (4) Show
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2009 - 1:08AM #12
SliverOverkill
Date Joined: Mar 6, 2006
Posts: 7
Well, this article was a breath of fresh air. Good to see that someone understands the Timmy psychograph. Players who play to have fun and/or see others have fun.

However, though I do laude Kelly's effort on showing why some Timmys do not spend much time on mana curves, I feel that it may be the small leak that sinks the boat. What I mean is that it still leaves room for the perception that "Timmys are bad deckbuilders because they are dead-set on thinking that 4-ofs and good land percentage are not fun. How can they be good deckbuilders if every deck they build is inconsistant?" Though I know this is not the intent, I think it comes across as making Timmy sound like someone who stubbornly builds bad decks, and less like a player who chooses to build decks how he likes. The problem might be the example, where timmy is being told how to improve his deck, rather than looking at a pile of cards and putting together the deck that is most fun to him.

Forgive me if I'm being picky, but I do appreciate this article as I feel it does a good job pointing out many things that have gone unsaid until now. In fact, it is good enough that what I said above is the only real problem with it. I personally consider myself a pure timmy, although I used to tack spike onto that because I like to build decks that are low curved and consistent. What I realized is that I do so because I find it more fun to sacrifice some randomness in favor of consistently being able to play every card I draw. Don't get me wrong, I love having versitile, interesting decks that are full of variety. I just don't like to put in cards that I won't be able to play when I draw them. While I do love the big play, I get much more out of playing a well oiled machine. Oh and I'm not a Johnny either. Keep your Zur's Wierdings away!
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2009 - 3:15AM #13
Arcbound_pudding
Date Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 177
I dunno, Timmies get efficiency, they even like it. I think what Timmy dosn't give a crap about that Spike does is consistancy and solvability. Look at Manaplasm and Wake Thrasher as examples, they both cost the same, and really do the same kind of thing. When they're working, they're awesome, they'll overwhelm your opponent before he know what the hell is going on, but if they're 1/1s for 3 mana with no evasion or resistance to removal, they kinda suck. That's the kind of randomness that Timmy loves to bits.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2009 - 3:41AM #14
Zindaras
  • Paranoia Paradise
Date Joined: Aug 25, 2003
Posts: 2,227

mutantman wrote:

A friend of mine showed me an elf deck he built, asserting that Llanowar Elves was the essential one-mana elf. I basically just looked at him funny, because I really couldn't see how the Lawnmower could beat out powerhouses like Essence Warden and Rhys the Redeemed . To me, the massive, must-answer, life-gaining, token-making machines are just impossible to top. (Maybe Wirewood Symbiote . Or Skullclamp , in moderation.)


Eh. I would say that, for an Elf deck, Birchlore Rangers (or maybe Heritage Druid ) is better. With it, you can consistently accelerate a lot of good 1-mana Elves ( Taunting Elf , Elvish Lyrist , Elvish Scrapper ) so that the third-turn Timberwatch Elf , Imperious Prefect , Alpha Status or Elvish Champion becomes all the more devastating. At least, that's how my Elf deck works, and it's pretty insane. You don't really need to attack with the small 1/1 Elves anyway, you want to wait until you get the pumpers.

Anyway, I would identify myself as all three profiles, and on the Timmy side, a Diversity Timmy. I love to build my decks to have a lot of synergy and obscure combos (for example, my Elf deck plays Vitalize and Thousand-Year Elixir to take advantage of the many tap abilities Elves have), I love to build my decks to be very good (Spike), but, most of all, I love to build my decks to have fun. Decks shouldn't be too powerful (if the game is over too quickly, nobody's having fun and the other deck didn't really do what it wants to do). I also love the diversity of Magic, which is shown by the fact that I currently have 42 (soon to be 46) decks, all with their own personality and game plan.

Dec 1, 2010 -- 10:06AM, ProphetKing wrote:

Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.

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4 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2009 - 3:44AM #15
Newbunkle
Date Joined: Oct 11, 2007
Posts: 1,965
Timmaaahh!!!!

I always embrace my inner Timmy, whether I'm playing an all-cat deck, or picking cards to fit song lyrics and building a deck out of them*. I have a strong Johnny side too, but there is virtually no spike in there at all.

* We're no strangers to love
You know the rules and so do I
A full commitment's what I'm thinking of
You wouldn't get this from any other guy...
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2009 - 6:08AM #16
mallemout
Date Joined: Dec 16, 2003
Posts: 113
Great, psychographic weeks. I think I'll cycle along then, embracing my timmy side now since from time to time I fit in every psychographic. Now let's see, what shall I try to dig up and make fun with (I mean a magic card of course, what were you thinking there?) Too bad there weren't any decks as examples to fire up my timmy spark. Still, good article, enjoyed reading it.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2009 - 6:58AM #17
lathspel
  • Jawsome UnCon Prizewinner
Date Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Posts: 881
Thanks, Kelly, for making the defense of Timmy that MaRo could not.

I don't think I'm a Timmy, but I can understand it a lot better after reading your article.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2009 - 7:33AM #18
Jakusotsu
Date Joined: Aug 14, 2003
Posts: 377
The whole lot of prejudice and misconception comes from the stupid, silly moniker "Timmy".

Me, I'm a Chuck.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2009 - 7:37AM #19
Hacimen
Date Joined: Oct 23, 2006
Posts: 8,375

Jakusotsu wrote:

The whole lot of prejudice and misconception comes from the stupid, silly moniker "Timmy".


It definitely doesn't help. Nor does the fact that MaRo started things off by making Timmy look like a scrub that no one wants to be seen as.

This article does a better job of defining the type than MaRo's six years of backpedaling, but they need to stop acting like Spikes and Johnnies do not play to have fun. The difference is where the fun comes from, if anything, not that Timmy cares more about fun than winning, which is something Johnnies and most Spikes also share.

This mentality doesn't speak to Timmy. Sure, winning is fun. Strategy helps you win. Great! But if it isn't fun, Timmy says, don't do it. Magic's not a job. Your deck list isn't a term paper. Magic is fun, and if you're not having fun, you really are doing it wrong.


People actually enjoy the deckbuilding process and the tweaking of decks, believe it or not.

Play cards because you like them. Build your deck the way you want to. Make some plays because they're funny, even if they don't necessarily help you win.

Laugh while you're playing. Enjoy your friends' company. Applaud a great play, even if it's the one that crushes you. Tell stories. Scrawl deck lists on every available surface. Make piles of cards for decks until you don't remember what color your table is.


This is called casual Magic, something people of all profiles do enjoy from time to time. It is not the exclusive domain of Timmy.

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4 years ago  ::  Mar 10, 2009 - 7:54AM #20
alextfish
Date Joined: Mar 16, 2004
Posts: 1,463

mutantman wrote:

So I took out the Overrun s because they made me win too quick.

Timmy FTW!


Awesome! I've done similar things. Great to find a kindred spirit!

mutantman wrote:

And I have a great story about that combo too. I was playing this three-player game and my brother played his Daru Spiritualist / Starlit Sanctum / Shuko infinite life combo, sacrificing his Spiritualist, and he made the mistake of choosing, as his arbitrarily large number, 3.6 billion life. And I happened to have my Ranger with a pair of Wings in my hand. So with a little math, I deduced that despite his life total being just shy of 2^32, I could still kill him in less than 12 turns. And since the third player was a blue mage with a hand full of permission, there wasn't really anything he could do about it. Ooh man did that feel good.

Everyone else left before I could actually play the thing out though. I guess the math scared them all off.


Wow. That is awesome. I salute you!

(I've done something similar. An Enduring Ideal deck of mine has my all-time favourite combo in it, which I fetched out over the course of 3 turns: Doubling Season , Opalescence , and Followed Footsteps on the Season. I got up to 1031 Seasons in play by the time I won attacking with 11 5/5s. Next turn I would have got over a googol of Seasons. :D )

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