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5 years ago ::
Jul 17, 2008 - 12:07PM
#81
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Date Joined:
Mar 10, 2008
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I chose a different 'metric' than Ben on purpose since it's a one-shot with no follow-up. My brother's metric is less than Ben's metric which is less than my personal metric. We all fall somewhere on that sliding scale.
Kenneth Nagle Game Designer Wizards of the Coast
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5 years ago ::
Jul 17, 2008 - 2:08PM
#82
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Date Joined:
Apr 17, 2008
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I realize this is a MTG website, and not a philosophy class, but folks who are sounding off should just take a breath and think about what Ken actually said. To simplify, it's really just a varient of "time is money".
If one person's day had a million hours in it, and he worked for $1/hour, he could be a millionaire. Put another way (there are a few old Heinlein stories on the subject, if someone was immortal, they'd most likely eventually be rich, through long-term investments of even very small amounts, etc.).
Similarly, the best experts on world hunger will explain that the roots of hunger are not lack of food, but lack of power to make a claim to food. When they say that, they are not claiming that there are no hungry people or that hungry people are bad or deserve their fate. They are just trying to get people to redefine a seemly familiar problem, and deal with it in a different way. Okay, people aren't immortal, so this is completely irrelevant. If someone worked for about 25 cents a day, it would take them 456.3(or 114 years, if you want to go with the whole $1 per day thing) years of working 24 hours a day in order to become a millionare, and that isn't even considering the need to buy necessities.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 17, 2008 - 2:45PM
#83
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Date Joined:
Jul 17, 2008
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I had to sign up for Gleemax just to show some support for Ken Nagle and this article. I thought it was great, even though I already knew about Pack Wars (though without adding basic lands, which seems considerably worse).
Suggestion: Set up a scenerio where you are a player who builds his collection by attending limited events. Because you're on a budget you can only do one every few months. So you've completed a sealed event for the newest sets tenth, lorwyn, shadowmoor, and time spiral. Now you just want to play in the casual decks area but you want a good enough deck so you don't lose every game. You have 300 random cards to choose from and they are from different sets. Now build a standard legal deck suitable for casual play. Hear, hear! I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in this predicament every time I try to get back into constructed. Going infinite in drafts never seems to work....
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5 years ago ::
Jul 17, 2008 - 3:22PM
#84
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I had to sign up for Gleemax just to show some support for Ken Nagle and this article. I thought it was great, even though I already knew about Pack Wars (though without adding basic lands, which seems considerably worse). You played Pack Wars without adding basic lands? So you just opened a pack and prayed for enough non-basic land to actually cast something?
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5 years ago ::
Jul 17, 2008 - 3:32PM
#85
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I believe the universe has not a shortage of time, but an excess of entropy. Actually, the Universe has an entropy deficit, which is why total entropy only increases. If there were an excess of entropy, then the probablility of our existence would be so small that it would effectively require an infinite timeline (which may exist) for one moment of "existence" to occur. The math says that it is highly probable that we didn't exist a moment ago, and that we won't exist a moment from now. That is an unsatisfying conclusion and is one of the main reasons that most physicists believe in the Big Bang Theory, in which the Universe started out in a highly ordered state and is constantly becoming more disordered as time "flows" forward. In fact, the "flow" of time (also called the arrow of time) can be attributed to entropy. Things only happen in one "direction" in time, which is the direction leading to higher total entropy. That's the reason why you never see an egg "unbreak."
About the article, Building on a Budget could also be interpreted to mean "building a collection on a budget." In that sense, this article was perfect for the column. Getting the maximum amount of enjoyment from your packs as you build your collection is a great budget topic.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 17, 2008 - 6:14PM
#86
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2002
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I should be fired and decomposed.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 17, 2008 - 8:38PM
#87
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I read the first page of this thread, and felt ashamed by some of the criticism. Yes the author could have maybe styled it in a more layman's terms so as not to offend the serious player. Maybe he could have a separate area to keep the "fun stuff" in rather than leave himself open to ridicule at the BoaB section and it's followers. Yet, in all fairness, maybe those of intellect could have tried to offer more constructive criticism rather than ridicule him. Sure you could write better within the given deadlines, and always with new ideas, but without suggestion none of us could truly improve to the standards soem seem to set.
Why do I stand by the author? Well for one I believe his intentions where honorable. He needed to write an article, probably based loosely on some guidelines, but never meant to insult, or ruin the BoaB thread and certainly without thought to create malice.
Me?.......I LOVED the idea! Something to do that with the booster that lasts longer than the 2 seconds ripping it open. I have collected physical cards on and off for many years. I found myself returning to the MtGo, and then to actually playing real cards. I dug out my collection after 3-4 years, joined a FNM venue, and played for 5 weeks now. I even built a Boab Kithkin deck. I won boosters. Excited like a child in a sweet/candy shop, I enjoyed the thrill of opening them. 5 weeks later, I still feel the disappointment at not finding a card I personally value. A card is only good if your collecting, intending on playing it, or trading for something more to your tastes.
Wednesday night I put pressure upon the serious casual players to humour me by playing a round of "pack wars". It generated some social discussion about simular game concepts, none of which I had heard off. Using land upside down, or better still the ability to play any spell(card) from the hand upside down as mana. I'm a new player that hates the fact once a booster is open, within 2 seconds the fun is gone. A new player does not know how to build decks, or even have the card pool to meet standard events. Maybe they have bought a theme deck and become board of it. Maybe they are trying to spend their pocket money one one booster a week, until they can build a fun deck...who knows.....The point remains personnaly for me...."How can I get more value from 15 cards that will most likely never see daylight again". Here it was, late at night, and eventually one of the players said OK, I'll play it with you. We played, and due to a spate of laughter from over excited new player (me), and chuckles from a very experienced senior player (my unlucky 'volunteer') the rest of the room came to see what all the fuss was. I could not stop myself enjoying the game. Didnt matter to me if it was one sided, win, lose. Did not matter If i could play the cards or not. What was fun was I was enjoying having a "*/*" creature gets +1/+1 for every blue permanent in play..a big 2/2. I loved waiting to see how crap my rare would be. I loved the fact I had red cards and still unable to draw a mountain. I loved the fact I knew on turn four I would destroy his land, and then becoming gobsmacked when he did it to me FIRST! Even though no card gelled, and you could not plan ahead..just to plan with cards in hand, It was still amazing to see novel ways at dealing with problems on the board. Even when my opponent kept tapping his mono black creature every turn, forcing me to discard my red spells..it was still fun, and yes I was still laughing like a great big kid! It was just fun, and although this Pack war is mainly aimed at "new" inexperienced players, with little or no real deck building benefit, I did notice the smiles on all those around. Even my opponent who had humoured me in the beginning was grinning from ear to ear. I shall save any boosters I win on FNM for pack wars. I look forward to two days of magic.
Summing up..... So what if the article was in the wrong thread, or slightly worded in manner that soem did not appreciate. Its intentions were there to give players, more value from there boosters. It gives the magic community (physical card realm) the chance to experience someone else's fun at discovering "magic" at its basic level. To maybe remind all players that we were all once "basic" players, soem for fun, others for the competitive side. Sometimes a new player that has read MtgO articles has come here from the physical card world. They come here to improve there game, learn from others, and ask questions. Most of all I found this article a worthwhile addition to improve my enjoyment. Maybe its not a "real" BoaB, but it certainly is a PoaB (play on a Budget). In England a booster is £2.50. Someone who cannot afford every card, and who can only dream of finding something decent, may find this a good way to gain an extra 10 Min's fun from that pocket money. Some may find it a waste of time. Magic will always look to make money...that is business. I will always look at ways to get the most enjoyment from my money. In this case the two go well together, and when I mature in the game sense, I am sure I or others will adapt this "pack war" idea and others like it to suit our more demanding BoaB themes.
Sorry and thank you, no offence intended.
P.s. Due to the online community, I find myself in a web of magic. I find my skills are improving, all be it slowly, they are improving, and given time and experience I shall hopefully be able to compete with my fellow players at a reasonable level. I once got bored with magic, so anything that can help motivate enjoyment has to be good doesn't it? Hope fully one day when "I know it all in the world of magic" and have to baby sit some new player, who can not offer any serious threat/competition, I will remember how I was treated. I hope to be able to sit down and take heart from their fun. Smile when they laugh, or when they finally without help manage to make a "good play"....or even a fun one.
Thorsfew.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 6:24PM
#88
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2006
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You played Pack Wars without adding basic lands? So you just opened a pack and prayed for enough non-basic land to actually cast something? No, you optionally play non-lands face down as 5-color basics.
I recall some folks I used to play with had an additional rule that when your library depleted (which will happen in 8 turns) you could then randomly pick up one of the played-as-land cards as your draw.
Set up a scenerio where you are a player who builds his collection by attending limited events. Because you're on a budget you can only do one every few months. So you've completed a sealed event for the newest sets tenth, lorwyn, shadowmoor, and time spiral. Now you just want to play in the casual decks area but you want a good enough deck so you don't lose every game. You have 300 random cards to choose from and they are from different sets. Now build a standard legal deck suitable for casual play. I agree that's a realistic scenario. However, I think it more closely resembles Sealed Deck, and you would benefit from polishing those skills. The nature of constructed is that you can theoretically go out and get a card by purchase or trading, assuming it is in format and budget. That's what Ben simulates: I can go get anything I want, as long as it's cheap.
Although I say it's not really Constructed, I think coverage of a MtgO League (start with sealed, add a pack a week for 3 more weeks) would cover that. I don't know what column would fit it, but that sort of article would be a really good teaching tool for these long-term-limited players.
Free MTGO Tournaments you should be playing: Pauper (all commons) - Tuesday Nights, prizes by MTGOTraders Peasant (Pauper + 5 uncommons, with paper rarity) - Sunday Nights, prizes by MTGOTraders Silverblack (Modern-era Commons and Uncommons - Most Wednesday nights, prizes by MTGO Bazaar Heirloom ("Cheap" cards only, e.g. rares under 20 cents) - Sunday afternoons, sponsored by MTGOTraders Check the superbly-made Gatherling site for more. Other games you should try: Spectromancer - Online card game by Richard Garfield, available cheap on Steam. DC Universe Online - action-based MMO. Free to play. Surprised me how well designed it is. Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 18, 2008 - 6:46PM
#89
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2006
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double post
Free MTGO Tournaments you should be playing: Pauper (all commons) - Tuesday Nights, prizes by MTGOTraders Peasant (Pauper + 5 uncommons, with paper rarity) - Sunday Nights, prizes by MTGOTraders Silverblack (Modern-era Commons and Uncommons - Most Wednesday nights, prizes by MTGO Bazaar Heirloom ("Cheap" cards only, e.g. rares under 20 cents) - Sunday afternoons, sponsored by MTGOTraders Check the superbly-made Gatherling site for more. Other games you should try: Spectromancer - Online card game by Richard Garfield, available cheap on Steam. DC Universe Online - action-based MMO. Free to play. Surprised me how well designed it is. Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 19, 2008 - 12:18AM
#90
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Date Joined:
Feb 15, 2007
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I am in total support of Mr. Nagle here. I am ashamed, and yet not surprised by the responses generated here. It seems that many people just are having bad days and want to take it out on someone else. I was shocked, however, to see how many people thought that BoaB was for online only. Perhaps Magic Online will be the death of paper magic. It seems that more and more people are moving from paper to online due to ease of use and waiting time for games etc. (ironically, they switch to online for the same reason that Ben does his articles online.) Maybe its time for the online community to remember its roots and honor the paper cards of old. I was glad to see one dedicated towards paper, not because I can play paper magic anymore (curse montana and its remoteness) but because it was a nice change of pace. I love Ben's articles, and I do agree that this would have been better in Serious Fun (may the ferret R.I.P.), but I don not think that these are grounds for killing Mr. Nagle. His comments had pure intentions, and served as a way to kinda introduce the article and also help the reader to get a feel for who he is and his writing style. /random rant of doom
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