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Sticky: Zerg's EDH Deckbuilding Guide
4 years ago  ::  Jan 22, 2009 - 2:24AM #41
Clem_Da_Squiggoth
Date Joined: Jul 2, 2008
Posts: 1,538
Nice 2.0 Zerg. I think you did a great job with this update.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 22, 2009 - 4:49AM #42
Jalor
Date Joined: Apr 24, 2008
Posts: 285
Seizan, Perverter of Truth is amazing. Especially when combined with Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar .
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2009 - 4:53AM #43
kedi
  • Kiss me, kill me
Date Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 2,169
Two other busted spells:

Declaration of Naught and Runed Halo . For each, name the commander. GG.

As for Red; Gauntlet of Might in addition to Gauntlet of Power .
Rather Standard - My blog about T2 & Magic Theory
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 26, 2009 - 5:54AM #44
CyrusBales
Date Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Posts: 9,267
Syphon mind is surely a must include for black?



Also, could someone in here give me some help? Spoiler: Show
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 26, 2009 - 9:01PM #45
Zerg0nator
Date Joined: May 24, 2003
Posts: 2,371
While I do appreciate everyone's input on "auto-include" cards, I think most of you need to take a second look at what you suggested. Yes, almost every card posted here is good, but they do not automatically go into every deck that can play them.

I will add Declaration of Naught , Gauntlet of Might , Insurrection (I don't believe it's quite the same caliber as most other cards on the list, but red needs help), Strip Mine , and also mention Hallowed Burial specifically under "board sweepers" category in white.

Doubling season does not belong in every green deck. Neither does Vigor. You don't need to look any further than my Momir Vig deck (which is not interested in putting counters on permanents or attacking) to see that those cards are not auto-includes, and if you look around a bit more with that question in mind, you will see more green decks that would not be interested in playing doubling season.

As for Vigor... it's just a beater. Yes, it's good at dealing damage, but I could even argue that chameleon colossus, plated slagwurm, or silvos are better. Just because it's your pet card, doesn't mean it should be in every deck. Try to look at things a bit more objectively. :P

I would include a simple green beater on the list only if one existed that was head and shoulders above the competition, like lightning greaves, far wanderings, reiterate, or return to dust are way above all other similar effects. (I think it goes almost without saying that this hypothetical green beater has a lot more competition than reiterate in its respective "niche" - i.e. smashing face)

Diamond Valley + other utility lands: Gauntlet/Lens/&co or even simple land search, such as kite and kodama's reach actually make a pretty strong opposition against utility nonbasics. They're nice, but the things you're losing by not running more basics IMO usually outweigh the utility you're gaining, and you're losing the power of doubling your mana where applicable, or simply losing colored mana and have to include mana-fixing nonbasics to compensate, which further nerfs kodama's reach, etc. See kedi's Child of Alara deck, where I actually suggested to take out kite because he doesn't have enough targets for it.

I'm only for running utility nonbasics if the effect is sufficiently powerful (strip mine, maze, academy ruins) and "sufficiently" here depends on what you're standing to lose in that particular deck.


...and the following cards are simply bad, let alone auto-includes:

Here's why I disagree with the rest of the cards:
  • Syphon Mind - It's terrible in 1v1, bad with 2 opponents, playable with 3, and doesn't really become "woah mindblowingly good" until you get to a game of 5 players.
  • Runed Halo - does nothing against generals whose function is not smashing face.
  • Seizan - Gives other people free cards and dies before you get a turn most of the time.
  • Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar - uh.... I'd rather play honden of the seeings winds tbh... which isn't even good.




Feel free to post more suggestions for cards that you think every deck should run, but please be more critical of what you're posting. Re-read the first paragraph of this post :P

Any other comments about the rest of the guide are also appreciated, as always.
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2009 - 1:02AM #46
tgva8889
  • The Smallest of Them All
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Date Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 3,459
I'm not sure, but isn't Genesis awesome in every Green deck? I mean, reusing creatures is awesome, as Reanimation would lead us to believe. Genesis lets you constantly reuse your creatures. At the very least, it lets you bring back your Eternal Witness es forever.
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2009 - 9:55AM #47
Zosima
Date Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 204
First off, this has been a great read and has certainly sold me on trying out this format with my friends. Thanks for all the helpful info.

Two deck building/ strategy questions that I don't think were touched on:

1.) Since the games typically go longer, how important is it to include some kind of card drawing utility?

2.) Is life-gain a poor strategy in this format?

Thanks in advance!
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2009 - 2:10PM #48
CyrusBales
Date Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Posts: 9,267

Zosima wrote:

First off, this has been a great read and has certainly sold me on trying out this format with my friends. Thanks for all the helpful info.

Two deck building/ strategy questions that I don't think were touched on:

1.) Since the games typically go longer, how important is it to include some kind of card drawing utility?

2.) Is life-gain a poor strategy in this format?

Thanks in advance!


1) Card drawing engines like Treasure trove and Tower of fortunes are better, because they are multiple use, the mana cost doesn't matter.

2) Life gain is ok, but it depends what everyone else is doing, the 21 general damage will still kill you regardless of your life total, and people playing Brainfreeze storm, or other non-damage combo's will still be around. Depends what everyone else in your group does, but namely, play what you find fun.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2009 - 11:08PM #49
Zerg0nator
Date Joined: May 24, 2003
Posts: 2,371

CyrusBales wrote:

1) Card drawing engines like Treasure trove and Tower of fortunes are better, because they are multiple use, the mana cost doesn't matter.


I wouldn't go as far as to say mana cost doesn't matter... it certainly matters much less than in 60-card formats, but Treasure Trove is still on the expensive side at 4 mana per card. Tower is quite good.

2) Life gain is ok, but it depends what everyone else is doing, the 21 general damage will still kill you regardless of your life total, and people playing Brainfreeze storm, or other non-damage combo's will still be around. Depends what everyone else in your group does, but namely, play what you find fun.


/agree here. Lifegain is mostly bad, but can be useful if it comes in large amounts and attached to another effect, so pretty much same thing as everywhere else. (i.e. Corrupt and Loxodon Warhammer = good, Heroes' Reunion = bad.)


Oh, and I'm pretty sure I covered the importance of card advantage and the importance of it being reusable in the guide... there's no section titled "play card draw" but I definitely didn't omit something as critical as that. :P

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 28, 2009 - 1:36AM #50
kedi
  • Kiss me, kill me
Date Joined: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 2,169
Browse is doubly as good as Treasure Trove, and even then I omit it time to time from some of my lists (In fact, I just play it when I'm playing mono blue and not running Arcanis as general). Treasure Trove doesn't even compare, imo.
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