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SallerAseph wrote:

Random:
I thought a lot about death cloud when first building the deck and it was pretty much Death Cloud vs Profane Command, and I chose the latter.
Looking back at it, the cloud might have been a better choice, but I also like a bit of recursion, and the command gives me some very nice options.

There is another thing that puzzles me: Multiple people have mentioned the Bane of the living and I am not sure I see it's power. I understand the mass creature kill thing and thats very good, but it would kill my creatures as well. If I pop my deed I can regen my spiritmongers at least thus keeping them on the table. Am I missing something here ?

Thanks in advance for all replies. I will post my decklist in a separate reply, since this is getting long.

I'm specifically responding to the underlined portions of the above text.

Death Cloud vs. Profane Command for multiplayer.

If you look at these 2 cards in a vaccuum there doesn't seem to be anything to compare. If you look at them in the context of a multiplayer game one holds a distinct advantage over the other not because they are directly comparable or fill the same role but because of the range of effect one has over the other. What am I talking about? I really don't know, I'm making this up as I go along! Just kidding.
When built upon properly Death Cloud is an Mp gamewrecker, it affects all players and controls the two zones most essential for winning in any format; 1) The hand, 2) In Play. At this point most people shake thier respective heads and think to themselves "but it ruins my game too!" what you should be saying is "how do I break that symetry and thereby give myself and overwhelming advantage everytime I play it?" Enter: Oversold Cemetary . Play it on turn two and then proceed to play lots guys that are going to generate card advantage while filling your graveyard and simultaneously procuring resources that will be conducive to playing the o' so devastating death cloud. Cards like the ones that have already been mentioned in this thread like sakura tribe-elder , Krosan Tusker , twisted abomination , Solemn simulacrum , wall of blossoms , ravenous baloth , kitchen finks , eternal witness etc. etc.
Does Death Cloud win by itself? No. Is it a wrecking ball when it resolves? YES. Is profane command a great card? Absolutely, it can often generate a siginificant swing in board position or even eliminate 1 player all together. Does it have a global effect in MP? No.
If your not persuaded by logic consider that you can probably get 2-4 Death Clouds for the price of 1-2 profane commands (depending on where you are).

Regarding Bane of the Living . Real simple here. I was mentioning it, albeit not very clearly, as working in conjunction with oversold cemetary . In that context yes, it does kill your guys, but it kills thier guys too and you can get your guys back and in addition if you built the deck right many of your guys have a CiP ability you would love to use again and again and as such you would love for them to die so you can get them back again.

The moral of the story, I love oversold cemetary . I guess I was feeling ranty.:D

defenestrator wrote:

Nicw post - excellent job of pointing out the synergy btw Cemetery and Cloud. But I think that may be for a different deck; I got the feeling he really wanted to use 4xDeeds, which doesn't work as well with Cemetery. Also it could be argued that Deeds is better for board control, as it kills enchantments and artifacts as well as creatures.

I don't see why you couldn't play both. You can play regrowth type effects like eternal witness in the event that you have to nuke your cemetary you just play witness and get back the cemetary then when witness dies you get it back and get back the deed.

Why not just forego all the fancy stuff and play Nevinyrral's disk .:P

SallerAseph wrote:

I already bought the profanes, but your point is valid and powerful: Death cloud is a usually abetter MP card than the profane. My meta is always 3 player FFA so the difference in my particular case might not be that big.
I also see the awesome synergy between the oversold cemetary and the cloud, but I can not seem to fit all of them in the same deck (and I dont own any oversold cemetaries either). The main reason for me choosing the Profane was that it gives me so much versatility. It gives my fatties fear (if I need evasion, its a fireball, a great finisher, and it recurs my creatures (thus fitting that theme with the Witness, the Genesis etc) - and I love to have options while playing, makes the deck more fun :D

The deck as it stands now is constructed of the following themes:
Some beatdown, some lifegain, some recursion and board control. I still have to buy a Volrath's Stronghold , and the 2 Specters, so I might as well get some clouds while I am at it. If so I will probably (with teary eyes) take out the 2 Profane Commands for the 2 Death Clouds and see how it works out. They have served me REALLY well, I lost count over the duels I ended with that card hehe. Would you still play with BOTH clouds and deeds ?

I also feel I should perhaps emphasize that the Deed is something I have been longing to own and play for quite some time, and thus the main card in the deck. Also, the Ravenous Baloths, I simply LOVE them, they are danged good ! In other words, those cards are 4 ofs in my deck


I tested the deck vs my brother in some duels, and the specter is real EVIL. If he hits, he basically scoops And with Trample from the 'hammer, its fairly easy to hit sometimes, and that a great deal of fun (for me :P)

Once again I underlined the important parts of your post.

It hasn't never been my intention to coerce you into playing the deck I like to play instead of the deck you like to play. If you enjoy the deck the way you have it and it's working then by all means smash peoples faces with it and have fun.

Have you tried Recurring Nightmare for recursion? I hear it works pretty good.

If your ever interested in building the OC/DC deck let me know I'll give you a hand with it. Without the a plan for getting around the universal effect of it death cloud isn't really that good because it hoses you too, so death cloud is kinda limited in it's application. I don't recommend playing it in just any deck you have to have a specific plan for breaking the symetry. I don't know that cemetary is the only way but it is the only one I have ever seen done successfully.

It looks like your on the right track with the deck. I'm using your list in post #30 for reference. I hope that's the right one.

What I like about it;
Crypt rats are really good addition and pretty safe on a budget too, I'm a big fan of beating up $500 decks with $.50 uncommons

You have redundancy in removal, lifegain, and recursion options and that's good for multiplayer.

Your creature base is efficient and most of them get something done when they come into play or leave play.

You have the capability to kill anything with deed.

What I would do to improve;

I some cases you have to much redudancy. In those cases eliminate the least efficient one. In recursion thats regrowth, witness does the same thing better and you have ways to get witness back.

Sol Ring is just kinda sticking out like a sore thumb I would kick it to the curb as well.

Liliana requires playtest data to make a decision on. Look at how many games your playing her and what sort of impact she has on the game. You may find that the last ability either never happens or you would have won anyway when it did. If you were to get rid of Lili I would suggest replacing her with Ink-eyes, servant of oni or Puppeteer clique or you could try nezumi graverobber for a budget option.

I would also think of ditching 1 putrefy or 1 deed depending on how often you find yourself needing the point removal vs. the board sweeper.

Use the 2 empty slots to shore up weak spots a little bit. With your recursion being one of your stronger points you'll want more of your answers to be in the form of creatures.

You said you thought enchantments might be troublesome for you. How about something like Indrik stomphowler or nantuko vigilante ?

As far as when to play deed goes, it depends on how things progress in the game for you. Alot of times you can play it early and the mere presence will keep people from playing certain things. Other times you can wait for them to overcommit then plop it down and blow up everything they worked hard to get. I think, as with other card interactions in your deck, you need to run them through the gauntlet a few times before you make more changes. So if you can get some more games in with the latest version let me know what you liked and what was sort of lackluster, in addition list what aspects of your opponents game gave you problems.

I think I will try this list then. I don't have a Vampiric or a second Garruk, otherwise I would fit them in somehow. The puppeteers seems like LOADS of fun, so they grabbed 2 spots. Also, I upped the Beacon count to 2, since multiple people have mentioned its greatness, and I have loved it in playtesting, and it fits my recursion theme...

Multiplayer rock

4 x *Sakura Tribe-Elder
3 x *Crypt Rats
2 x *Eternal Witness
4 x *Ravenous Baloth
2 x *Spiritmonger
1 x *Genesis
2 x *Shimian Specter
2 x *Puppeteer Clique
1 x *Indrik Stomphowler

4 x *Putrefy
4 x *Pernicious Deed
2 x *Profane Command
2 x *Loxodon Warhammer
2 x *Beacon of Unrest
1 x *Garruk Wildspeaker
1 x *Demonic Tutor

4 x *Treetop Village
1 x *Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 x *Volrath's Stronghold
4 x *Bayou
7 x *Forest
6 x *Swamp



All in all I think this version seem much more streamlined, and have better options in all phases. Granted, its probably far from indestructible, but in all honesty, that is appealing to my intellect (trying to figure out good solutions to a given problem with my current resources available)

So where would this deck struggle ?
I think many flying creatures, really bothersome enchantments like Moat, Propaganda, Ghostly Prison, No Mercy etc might make life hard, but those can all be blown up, as can the Underworld Dreams and Sneak Attacks. I would have issues dealing with pro back creatures, and the ultra fat Darksteel Collossus, as well as against fast decks with combos.. Otherwise I should be reasonably well equipped to do both an early games as well as a good mid and end game ! But as I just said, part of the fun is trying to play this deck AND still overcome those obstacles without tweaking it more for now

Wish you all a pleasant weekend !