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5 years ago ::
Apr 01, 2008 - 8:33PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 28, 2003
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I just want to get some clarification on something that may come up in my merfolk deck. It contains both Body Double  and Vesuvan Shapeshifter  . If I play Body Double, can I copy the Vesuvan Shapeshifter so I can copy something in play?
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5 years ago ::
Apr 01, 2008 - 8:36PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2003
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Yes, that works.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2008 - 5:30AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2001
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Here's an easy way to think about multiple copy effects. It doesn't follow the exact letter of the rules, so those who insist that there can only be one way to understanding may get upset; but it always gets the right results and is easier to understand than diatribes about "copiable values." When one card (or token - assume I always add that) copies another, it only copies the values "printed" on that other card. So no counters, enchantments, Giant Growth  s, or whatever. As long as that copy effect lasts, you can pretend that the values the copy gets this way are "printed" on it, for all purposes. And "all" includes when it gets copied. You could even replace the copy card with another one just like what it is copying (as long as the copy effect lasts). So when you play your Body Double, it may look like a Body Double spell that is resolving, but what the game sees you putting into play is, for all intents and purposes, a Vesuvan Shapeshifter card. Since the Vesuvan gets to copy something in play, this copy of one can, too.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2008 - 7:37AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 28, 2003
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Thanks. I suspected this would work, since clones still get to copy the "as ~ comes into play" stuff of other creatures. The chain's a little bit longer, but I'm glad to know I was right on this.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2008 - 7:48AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2003
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For the curious, here is the relevant section of the rules: 419.1b Effects that read “[This permanent] comes into play with . . . ,” “As [this permanent] comes into play . . . ,” or “[This permanent] comes into play as . . . ” are replacement effects.
419.6i Some replacement effects modify how a permanent comes into play. (See rules 419.1b-c.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine how and whether these replacement effects apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist in play, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it comes into play, continuous effects generated by the resolution of spells or abilities that changed the permanent’s characteristics on the stack (see rule 217.1c), and continuous effects from the permanent’s own static abilities, but ignoring continuous effects from any other source that would affect it.
Example: Voice of All says “As Voice of All comes into play, choose a color” and “Voice of All has protection from the chosen color.” An effect creates a token that’s a copy of Voice of All. As that token is put into play, its controller chooses a color for it.
Example: Yixlid Jailer says “Cards in graveyards have no abilities.” Scarwood Treefolk says “Scarwood Treefolk is put into play tapped.” A Scarwood Treefolk that’s put into play from a graveyard is put into play tapped.
Example: Orb of Dreams is an artifact that says “Permanents come into play tapped.” It will not affect itself, so Orb of Dreams is put into play untapped.
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