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6 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2007 - 10:46AM #11
Tich
Date Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2,105
They seem trivial when I have the Mage that turns ANY card into one...
My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706

My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879

My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211

My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2007 - 1:10PM #12
Mujadaddy
Date Joined: Jan 13, 2007
Posts: 63
I've *never* been a fan of discarding cards from my own hand, especially as a creature-based effect, for a number of reasons:

I'm not a card-drawing machine

I *like* the cards in my deck--I put them there for a reason, not to 'waste' them

Why am I 'wasting' a card, again? I want it in my graveyard? I'll just Millstone myself or Pox or something.... "Useless land" you say? Mana curve, I say.

What if the critter is killed? How am I going to 'waste' my card now!!??

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By all means, I'm not cheerleading Syphon Soul as the hawtest card on the planet -- just a solid multiplayer spell.
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2007 - 2:00PM #13
Tich
Date Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2,105
First of all, don't quote words I don't use. I never said anything about wasting useless cards. I pick and choose my cards and amounts very carefully, and consider every possible card to fill a niche.

Mujadaddy wrote:

I've *never* been a fan of discarding cards from my own hand, especially as a creature-based effect, for a number of reasons:


Going to stop you right here. The entire point of this deck is the possible synergies that Gibbering Descent + no cards in hand brings. If you don't want to discard cards, whoop de friggin doo, but my deck is BASED AROUND IT.

I'm not a card-drawing machine

I *like* the cards in my deck--I put them there for a reason, not to 'waste' them

Why am I 'wasting' a card, again? I want it in my graveyard? I'll just Millstone myself or Pox or something.... "Useless land" you say? Mana curve, I say.


Lol, that's a very naive way of thinking about it. First of all, mana curve is based on probability. You can (almost) never pick up the perfect number of lands even if you "curve" your deck because what you draw will be random. If you can build magical decks that always curve perfectly, then you have a prosperous life ahead of you. Realistically though, people will pick up excess lands in a multiplayer game (they are relatively longer then duels). This benefit is one reason why I opted to use the spellshaper version.

Secondly, what good is a Slicer when people are locked down to 0 cards? What good is Dark Ritual in top deck mode? What good is another Mage? What good is 2 Glacial Chasms? What good is 2 Contaminations? If you want to use SS, and use it once, that's fine. I like turning ALL my EXTRA, extremely useful, worthwhile cards into an additional win condition. There are cards I need, but not in multiples. I'm not wasting anything, I'm turning effects I no longer require into life.

Finally, it's a win condition. SS will hit ONCE. If I lock the board down but lose my/don't have any Rack effects, I can't win. If that happens, I suddenly have 4 more outs in my deck. You can say deny this if you want, even though my deck does feature a lock with contamination that (in general) prevents them from killing my creature, but he has drained me to victory in the past.

What if the critter is killed? How am I going to 'waste' my card now!!??


Play them? Creatures get killed, strategies get ruined, plans backfire, that's magic. The cards I'm discarding can easily be played for a minor effect. Sure, I'd rather have more life, but it's not like playing out my entire hand is hard with this deck. The purpose of the mage was never to waste cards. I never said waste, and it kind of made me mad how you kept quoting it like I had. You can say "what if X happens" to any card or strategy, so I'm not going to humor this argument any further.

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By all means, I'm not cheerleading Syphon Soul as the hawtest card on the planet -- just a solid multiplayer spell.


This is almost an insulting statement. In my guide to black cards and strategies I have it listed as a card everyone should have (you can check the link and see when it was last updated/edited). I advocate using this card all the time to people here on the forums, and during my real life games. I know it's a good spell, I never said otherwise, I never hinted otherwise, don't talk to me like I don't know that.

My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706

My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879

My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211

My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 31, 2007 - 2:39PM #14
Mujadaddy
Date Joined: Jan 13, 2007
Posts: 63
Wow, you completely misinterpreted my tone-of-voice.

I'm at work right now, and autocard is blocked, so I'm not able to check up on every card. I also haven't bought more than singles since ... jeez, 8th?

I'm not trying to be combative at all -- just talking, bud.

Also, "Waste" was in quotes because it wasn't being used literally -- I was meaning "not really waste, but sort of waste from a certain point-of-view" ...

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I'd love to see your deck in action -- I used to like group alot, until I got good enough to *always* be target-#1 in every game... Thanks, in part, to Syphon Soul, of course, Pox, & Pestilence ...
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5 years ago  ::  May 20, 2008 - 1:27AM #15
Carny
Date Joined: Oct 30, 2004
Posts: 299

Mujadaddy wrote:

I've *never* been a fan of discarding cards from my own hand, especially as a creature-based effect, for a number of reasons:


you don't like those types of cards. Good. IMHO some of them works and some of the don't. I have never felt bad about dropping roar of the wurm in my yard while giving my wild mongrel +1/+1. While I realise that it is your oppinion then I think it is rather silly. I don't like to take damage, but I will still happily use char .

Mujadaddy wrote:

I'm not a card-drawing machine


This Is probably quite true.

Mujadaddy wrote:

I *like* the cards in my deck--I put them there for a reason, not to 'waste' them


But surely you realise that all cards, not even the ones carefully selected by you are good in all situations. In those cases I would think a card that can transfer conditionally dead cards into something useful.

Mujadaddy wrote:

Why am I 'wasting' a card, again? I want it in my graveyard? I'll just Millstone myself or Pox or something.... "Useless land" you say? Mana curve, I say.


but you don't want it in your grave-yard. You want to trade a momentary useless cards for a useful effect.

Mujadaddy wrote:

What if the critter is killed? How am I going to 'waste' my card now!!??

what if your opponent storms with tendrils for 10 onturn 2? What if your opponent donates delusions to you? In other word. you have an opponent, he will interfere with you in anyway possible.
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Mujadaddy wrote:

By all means, I'm not cheerleading Syphon Soul as the hawtest card on the planet -- just a solid multiplayer spell.


Nobody is denying its power, it just isn't very apropriate for this deck...

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5 years ago  ::  May 20, 2008 - 11:46AM #16
Luke409
Date Joined: Aug 2, 2006
Posts: 261
This deck is pretty spiffy! My oh my I could learn alot from you Tich since black is my favorite color. Im actually happy that someone's found and even better way to use Howltooth Hollow. With Mindslicer backing it up it becomes that much either. And IMO I have to agree this deck doesn't really require syphon soul. Yes it's power is real but this deck is going for control of each players hand, not neccesarily to drain all of their life totals.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2008 - 9:27AM #17
Ecks-Vee-Eye-One
Date Joined: May 16, 2008
Posts: 14
I like the deck, but what do you think about Leechridden Swamp in this? Without ever actually playing the deck, I'd guess that you might not have the two black permanents out often enough, but I don't know.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2008 - 1:33PM #18
Tich
Date Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2,105

Ecks-Vee-Eye-One wrote:

I like the deck, but what do you think about Leechridden Swamp in this? Without ever actually playing the deck, I'd guess that you might not have the two black permanents out often enough, but I don't know.


Yeah that's kinda what happens when you make a post and then 3 months later they add a card like Leech Swamp :P.

My guide to Black multiplayer cards and strategies:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/18893722?sdb=1&post_num=1#322195706

My guide to Red multiplayer cards and strategies:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28999213/?sdb=1&post_num=1#517562879

My guide to White multiplayer cards and strategies
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29011349/?sdb=1&pg=last#517773211

My guide to Green multiplayer cards and strategies
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29034323/Tichs_Guide_to_Green_Multiplayer_Cards_and_Strategies
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2008 - 2:07PM #19
Malovec
Date Joined: May 24, 2008
Posts: 161
Tich.

You and my black deck should be a team.

lol
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 03, 2008 - 4:59AM #20
Dracchus_Messor
Date Joined: Feb 22, 2007
Posts: 114
I find discard very hard to make work in multi-player, so you have done a fine job here!
I find Geth's Grimoire very usefull if you can get it down, Nihiltih and Tombstalker have good synergy (as your graveyard fills up, and Nihilith can come in very quickly) and they are both rather solid win-cons.
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