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5 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2008 - 5:10PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2006
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Hey all, Pretty sure about this, but I wanted to confirm. (And I know you are all sitting, bored, clicking refresh and hoping for a new thread :P) Player A controls Prowess of the Fair  and some low-cost Elf creatures. Player B resolves Austere Command  , choosing to destroy all enchantments and low-cost creatures. Even though Austere Command says to destroy enchantments first, Prowess of the Fair will still trigger, correct? On a side note: if one of the Elves had the mythical wording of "~ is indestructible if you control an enchantment," would it be destroyed, because the enchantment left before the attempted creature destruction? Thanks, Gerdef
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5 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2008 - 5:15PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2007
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Wrong. The Command's Destruction is not simultaneous. The Enchantment was destroyed, then the Creatures were Destroyed; Thus, the Prowess was not In Play and will not trigger. Yes. It would be destroyed. Note; IF the Destruction WAS simultaneous, like Akroma's Vengeance  , then the Prowess would trigger, and the Elf wouldn't be destroyed.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2008 - 5:28PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2006
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Wrong.
The Command's Destruction is not simultaneous.
The Enchantment was destroyed, then the Creatures were Destroyed; Thus, the Prowess was not In Play and will not trigger.
Yes.
It would be destroyed.
Note; IF the Destruction WAS simultaneous, like Akroma's Vengeance , then the Prowess would trigger, and the Elf wouldn't be destroyed.
Really? Interesting.
So for purposes of rule 410.10d, the state checked before the destruction of the creatures is when the Enchantment is gone, but the creatures are not, so there are no relevant triggers? I had thought there were two states: before any of the destruction, and after all of it.
Rule 410.10d
Show
410.10d. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions. Continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities must be treated specially because the object with the ability may no longer be in play, may have moved to a hand or library, or may no longer be controlled by the appropriate player. The game has to “look back in time” to determine if these abilities trigger. Abilities that trigger specifically when an object leaves play, when an object is put into a hand or library, or when a player loses control of an object will trigger based on their existence, and the appearance of objects, prior to the event rather than afterward. Thanks, Gerdef
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5 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2008 - 5:30PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2007
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Really? Interesting.
So for purposes of rule 410.10d,
[410.10d] is NOT applicable because the Destruction of the Enchantments and Creatures are NOT simultaneous.
The Destruction is sequential.
First, the Enchantments are Destroyed.
Then, the Creatures with CMC 3 or less are Destroyed.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2008 - 5:32PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Nov 13, 2007
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On a related note (sorry to steal the thread), would a Squirrel Mob  survive an entwined Solar Tide  if there was at least 1 1/1 Squirrel in play? I'm 99.9% sure the answer is yes based on the previous answers, but just to double check.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2008 - 5:34PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2007
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On a related note (sorry to steal the thread), would a Squirrel Mob survive an entwined Solar Tide if there was at least 1 1/1 Squirrel in play?
Yes, you are correct.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2008 - 5:49PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2006
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[410.10d] is NOT applicable because the Destruction of the Enchantments and Creatures are NOT simultaneous.
The Destruction is sequential.
First, the Enchantments are Destroyed.
Then, the Creatures with CMC 3 or less are Destroyed.
Ahhh, I was reading 410.10d wrong. It will apply when the Prowess leaves play (and find that nothing triggered), but not when the creatures leave play.
Thanks Feigel,
Gerdef
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5 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2008 - 6:38PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jan 11, 2006
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(...) the Destruction of the Enchantments and Creatures are NOT simultaneous.
The Destruction is sequential.
First, the Enchantments are Destroyed.
Then, the Creatures with CMC 3 or less are Destroyed.
Is there a rule that states this? I'd like to know the number.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2008 - 6:44PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2005
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Is there a rule that states this? I'd like to know the number.
I think this is the rule you're looking for:
413.2b The controller of the spell or ability follows its instructions in the order written. However,
replacement effects may modify these actions. In some cases, later text on the card may modify
the meaning of earlier text (for example, “Destroy target creature. It can’t be regenerated” or
“Counter target spell. If that spell is countered this way, put it on top of its owner’s library
instead of into its owner’s graveyard.” Don’t just apply effects step by step without thinking in
these cases—read the whole text and apply the rules of English to the text.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 15, 2008 - 6:47PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2007
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Is there a rule that states this? I'd like to know the number.
[indent]413.2b [color=black]The controller of the spell or ability follows its instructions in the order written.[/color] However, replacement effects may modify these actions. In some cases, later text on the card may modify the meaning of earlier text (for example, "Destroy target creature. It can't be regenerated" or "Counter target spell. If that spell is countered this way, put it on top of its owner's library instead of into its owner's graveyard.") Don't just apply effects step by step without thinking in these cases-read the whole text and apply the rules of English to the text.[/indent]
What's the order written?
First, the Enchantments are Destroyed.
Then, the Creatures with CMC 3 or less are Destroyed.
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