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Switch to Forum Live View [DtW] - Team America
4 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2009 - 7:01PM #1
gamegeek2
gamegeek2
Date Joined: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 2,859
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Team America

[img]www.celluloid-dreams.de/content/images/k...[/img]

[img]i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee215/Hodoku...[/img]


What is Team America - Team America was originally developed as a joke on The Source, called "Europe" because it was full of cards popular in European Legacy but rarely seen in American legacy. Once serious testing began, Dark Confidant was removed, green was added in for Goyf, and the deck started to perform well. In that the 2008 The Source Anniversary Tournament, two people played it. Dan Signorini/nitewolf9 managed to Top 4 with the deck, bringing it to the front of the community's attention. As the largest Legacy community on the Internet, what's hot on The Source gets hot elsewhere quickly. Its legitimacy as a deck was confirmed when it made Top 2 in the hands of Justing Cheung at the World Team Championships.

What makes this deck - Team America is an attempt to hybridize the most successful elements of Threshold and Suicide Black/Eva Green decks. It takes the free counterspells and draw-fixers from Threshold and combines them with the amazing Tombstalker, Snuff Out, LD, and discard. For good measure, it also plays Stifle and the best creature ever, Goyf. This deck generates massive tempo with its 12 free spells, its finishers are cheap and extremely efficient, and it brings everything together in a simple but elegant package.

Decklists Show


Dan Signorini/nitewolf9, Top 4 The Source 2008

4 x +[Wasteland]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Wasteland Wasteland &type=card">
4 x +[Polluted]+[Delta]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Polluted Delta Polluted Delta &type=card">
4 x +[Flooded]+[Strand]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Flooded Strand Flooded Strand &type=card">
4 x +[Underground]+[Sea]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Underground Sea Underground Sea &type=card">
2 x +[Tropical]+[Island]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Tropical Island Tropical Island &type=card">
1 x +[Bayou]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Bayou Bayou &type=card">
1 x +[Bloodstained]+[Mire]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Bloodstained Mire Bloodstained Mire &type=card">

4 x +[Tombstalker]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Tombstalker Tombstalker &type=card">
4 x +[Tarmogoyf]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Tarmogoyf Tarmogoyf &type=card">

4 x +[Brainstorm]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Brainstorm Brainstorm &type=card">
4 x +[Ponder]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Ponder Ponder &type=card">
4 x +[Stifle]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Stifle Stifle &type=card">
4 x +[Force]+[of]+[Will]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Force of Will Force of Will &type=card">
4 x +[Daze]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Daze Daze &type=card">
4 x +[Thoughtseize]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Thoughtseize Thoughtseize &type=card">
4 x +[Snuff]+[Out]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Snuff Out Snuff Out &type=card">
4 x +[Sinkhole]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Sinkhole Sinkhole &type=card">

4 x +[Tormod]+[s]+[Crypt]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Tormod's Crypt Tormod's Crypt &type=card">
4 x +[Blue]+[Elemental]+[Blast]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Blue Elemental Blast Blue Elemental Blast &type=card">
4 x +[Krosan]+[Grip]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Krosan Grip Krosan Grip &type=card">
3 x +[Diabolic]+[Edict]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Diabolic Edict Diabolic Edict &type=card">



Dan Signorini, 1st place Dream Wizards Legacy

4 x +[Underground]+[Sea]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Underground Sea Underground Sea &type=card">
4 x +[Wasteland]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Wasteland Wasteland &type=card">
4 x +[Polluted]+[Delta]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Polluted Delta Polluted Delta &type=card">
3 x +[Flooded]+[Strand]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Flooded Strand Flooded Strand &type=card">
2 x +[Bloodstained]+[Mire]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Bloodstained Mire Bloodstained Mire &type=card">
2 x +[Tropical]+[Island]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Tropical Island Tropical Island &type=card">
1 x +[Bayou]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Bayou Bayou &type=card">

4 x +[Tarmogoyf]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Tarmogoyf Tarmogoyf &type=card">
4 x +[Tombstalker]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Tombstalker Tombstalker &type=card">

4 x +[Ponder]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Ponder Ponder &type=card">
4 x +[Brainstorm]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Brainstorm Brainstorm &type=card">
4 x +[Force]+[of]+[Will]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Force of Will Force of Will &type=card">
4 x +[Daze]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Daze Daze &type=card">
4 x +[Thoughtseize]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Thoughtseize Thoughtseize &type=card">
4 x +[Sinkhole]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Sinkhole Sinkhole &type=card">
4 x +[Snuff]+[Out]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Snuff Out Snuff Out &type=card">
4 x +[Stifle]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Stifle Stifle &type=card">

3 x +[Diabolic]+[Edict]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Diabolic Edict Diabolic Edict &type=card">
3 x +[Hydroblast]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Hydroblast Hydroblast &type=card">
3 x +[Krosan]+[Grip]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Krosan Grip Krosan Grip &type=card">
2 x +[Reanimate]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Reanimate Reanimate &type=card">
4 x +[Tormod]+[s]+[Crypt]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Tormod's Crypt Tormod's Crypt &type=card">


I remember playing against Daniel in the Swiss (Dream Wizards is my local store, I live about 15 minutes away). I was running Affinity (a far less tuned and optimized version than the one I have now). Team America is generally a good matchup for Affinity, but I got color-screwed, unable to drop Master both games, and got my face beat in by Goyfs.

Justin Cheung, Top 2 2008 World Team Championships

1 x +[Bayou]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Bayou Bayou &type=card">
3 x +[Bloodstained]+[Mire]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Bloodstained Mire Bloodstained Mire &type=card">
2 x +[Flooded]+[Strand]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Flooded Strand Flooded Strand &type=card">
4 x +[Polluted]+[Delta]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Polluted Delta Polluted Delta &type=card">
2 x +[Tropical]+[Island]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Tropical Island Tropical Island &type=card">
4 x +[Underground]+[Sea]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Underground Sea Underground Sea &type=card">
4 x +[Wasteland]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Wasteland Wasteland &type=card">

4 x +[Tarmogoyf]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Tarmogoyf Tarmogoyf &type=card">
4 x +[Tombstalker]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Tombstalker Tombstalker &type=card">

4 x +[Brainstorm]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Brainstorm Brainstorm &type=card">
4 x +[Daze]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Daze Daze &type=card">
4 x +[Force]+[of]+[Will]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Force of Will Force of Will &type=card">
4 x +[Snuff]+[Out]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Snuff Out Snuff Out &type=card">
4 x +[Stifle]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Stifle Stifle &type=card">
4 x +[Ponder]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Ponder Ponder &type=card">
4 x +[Sinkhole]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Sinkhole Sinkhole &type=card">
4 x +[Thoughtseize]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Thoughtseize Thoughtseize &type=card">

1 x +[Blue]+[Elemental]+[Blast]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Blue Elemental Blast Blue Elemental Blast &type=card">
3 x +[Diabolic]+[Edict]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Diabolic Edict Diabolic Edict &type=card">
2 x +[Hydroblast]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Hydroblast Hydroblast &type=card">
3 x +[Krosan]+[Grip]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Krosan Grip Krosan Grip &type=card">
1 x +[Duress]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Duress Duress &type=card">
1 x +[Threads]+[of]+[Disloyalty]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Threads of Disloyalty Threads of Disloyalty &type=card">
4 x +[Tormod]+[s]+[Crypt]+[c]" class="linkedCardName" target="_blank">[c]Tormod's Crypt Tormod's Crypt &type=card">


As you see in the decklists, the MD card choices really speak for themselves. The deck is 4-ofs down the line in the MD and a manabase that varies only by fetchland numbers. The only real consideration is Hymn to Tourach vs. Sinkhole - in a meta with more blue-based aggro-control, Hymn is the better card; with more multicolor decks such as Survival and Rock, Sinkhole is the stronger choice. However, Sinkhole is still strong against the land-light Threshold, and can be crippling in tandem with Wasteland.


Sideboard Show

Tormod's Crypt - Absolutely necessary to fight Dredge. Also good against some random decks like 43land.dec and anything that relies heavily on the graveyard. Always pack four.

Diabolic Edict - Excellent creature removal. Running 3 is highly recommended.

Hydroblast - For goblins, burn, and other heavily red decks.

Krosan Grip - Uncounterable answer to Top/Balance and Dreadnought. Artifacts and enchantmens are very relevant in this format in general.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2009 - 7:18PM #2
iamajellydonut
iamajellydonut
  • UnCon Prizewinner 2008
  • …mmm
Date Joined: Jan 20, 2008
Posts: 7,202
What's so special about this deck? There aren't variables. It's a set list. "Let's take MUC and add in Rock finishers!" Amazing?

EDIT: U/B control + goyf
lel♯ jenk♯ ∞ Show


I'm the world's leading astrophysicist. You can trust me, because I said I was.

Oct 11, 2012 -- 9:16AM, Enigma256 wrote:

Oct 11, 2012 -- 8:50AM, Chaikov wrote:

What's wrong with my formating?

you make paragraphs shorter than the page width
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2009 - 7:33PM #3
gamegeek2
gamegeek2
Date Joined: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 2,859
It's a simple yet elegant deck that combines the best elements from Eva Green and Threshold.

I would add matchups, but I need to get some actual rest, got some big tests tomorrow.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2009 - 7:40PM #4
mntwinsfan
mntwinsfan
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Date Joined: Jul 19, 2007
Posts: 4,955

iamajellydonut wrote:

What's so special about this deck? There aren't variables. It's a set list. "Let's take MUC and add in Rock finishers!" Amazing?


Hmm? This is much closer to Eva Green crossed with Tempo Thresh than MUC with The Rock. Regardless, just because it's not particularly creative doesn't mean it isn't good.

EDIT: Sarnath'd by seven minutes. That post took a long time to write.

These are what I consider the main points of the deck:
-Cantrips. These are pretty self-explanatory; basically the core of Gro and Thresh decks for years now.
-Cheap but efficient beaters. Again, self-explanatory. Who doesn't want a 5 power creature for two mana?
-Free spells in Snuff Out, Daze, and Force of Will. You really do gain massive amounts of tempo with this deck, and your curve is very low.

These three have formed the basis for every Threshold deck in Legacy and it has been proven to be a very potent shell for some time now. However, Team America adds some new elements:

-Mana denial. Between Sinkhole, Stifle, and Wasteland, you can completely cripple an opponent's manabase. It also makes Daze even better than it already is.
-Thoughtseize. It's great against any control, aggro-control, or combo deck out there. This has been played very successfully in UGb Threshold for a while.

You can also replace Sinkhole with Hymn to Tourach, weakening your mana disruption package for even more hand disruption. This is essentially a metagame call; there's no right or wrong choice. Other than that, I really don't think you should mess with the maindeck. It's very solid as-is. The manabase could be better against Moon effects, but I'm not sure how.

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4 years ago  ::  Mar 27, 2009 - 8:08AM #5
gamegeek2
gamegeek2
Date Joined: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 2,859
Yeah, it's a hybrid goodstuff deck; it plays the best and most efficient cards. It features

The best creature ever (Tarmogoyf), alongside the evasive and underplayed Tombstalker
The best mana denial ever (Wasteland), alongside the powerful Sinkhole and Stifle
The best discard spell ever (Thoughtseize)
The best counterspell ever (Force of Will), with Daze to boot
The best card draw ever (Brainstorm), with Ponder for extra consistency

It falls under the category of "Blue Aggro-Control," but is very different than its cousins and more proactive

I would put a swamp in there somewhere, probably in place of a fetch. I just like to have basics to fetch.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 27, 2009 - 8:49PM #6
yamaoakes
yamaoakes
Date Joined: Sep 11, 2006
Posts: 199

gamegeek2 wrote:

Yeah, it's a hybrid goodstuff deck; it plays the best and most efficient cards. It features

The best creature ever (Tarmogoyf), alongside the evasive and underplayed Tombstalker
The best mana denial ever (Wasteland), alongside the powerful Sinkhole and Stifle
The best discard spell ever (Thoughtseize)
The best counterspell ever (Force of Will), with Daze to boot
The best card draw ever (Brainstorm), with Ponder for extra consistency

It falls under the category of "Blue Aggro-Control," but is very different than its cousins and more proactive

I would put a swamp in there somewhere, probably in place of a fetch. I just like to have basics to fetch.


I would liike to argue that Brainstorm is not the best draw spell ever, speaking only of legacy. Yes, brainstorm does allow you to look at 3 new cards but it doesn't actually give you card advantage. It gives you card quality but lacks the ability to give you card advantage. I've played team america a few times, and my only issue with the deck is a lack of card advantage. I wanted to test the deck with different draw spells but never had the motivation. Alongside the lack of draw spells in the deck, I felt on occation, it was difficult to find creatures. I remember losing one match to Affinity because I didn't see a creature until at least turn 8, maybe later.

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4 years ago  ::  Mar 29, 2009 - 6:07AM #7
gamegeek2
gamegeek2
Date Joined: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 2,859
The version of this deck I'm testing right now has 4 Quirion Dryad, which would serve as extra creatures, and get MASSIVE in this deck, given 12 free spells and even more cheap spells.

Lack of CA is what tends to hurt this deck and Threshold. Predict could potentially solve this problem, but I don't know what to cut. Stifle or Sinkhole perhaps, but those cards are SO good.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 29, 2009 - 6:18AM #8
newager
newager
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Date Joined: Mar 22, 2001
Posts: 370

gamegeek2 wrote:

The version of this deck I'm testing right now has 4 Quirion Dryad, which would serve as extra creatures, and get MASSIVE in this deck, given 12 free spells and even more cheap spells.

Lack of CA is what tends to hurt this deck and Threshold. Predict could potentially solve this problem, but I don't know what to cut. Stifle or Sinkhole perhaps, but those cards are SO good.


I've seen a list that cut 2 Ponder, 1 Tombstalker and 1 Snuff Out for 4 Standstill. I didn't care for the standstills in there without man-lands, but replacing them with Predict would make some sense. In that case though, I think Ponder must stay as a 4 of.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2009 - 3:32AM #9
gamegeek2
gamegeek2
Date Joined: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 2,859
Cutting Ponder is terrible. Ponder gives this deck consistency and more ways to find threats.
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 15, 2009 - 3:41PM #10
newager
newager
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Date Joined: Mar 22, 2001
Posts: 370

gamegeek2 wrote:

Cutting Ponder is terrible. Ponder gives this deck consistency and more ways to find threats.


I agree. I'm just saying what I saw, not condoning it.

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