I try the deck at my local store thursday and made some modifications. First of all, my meta is fast, so i think i'm gonna cut Elspeth. I also got 2 Lightning Helix and trying to make some room for them. I realize that I usually end the game with 3-4 lands and I prefer having 1-2 more lands. Is 22 lands too much ? Didn't have the chance to play my Mirran Crusader but I would have prefer KoR.
Thanks Dragon_Whelp for the advise. I will be looking to have Horizon Canopy and Bojuka Bog in the sideboard. Why cuting 4 Kird Ape ? This little guy is pretty fun. I will stay with 4 Stoneforge for 2 reasons : I need to draw it and if it get countered and/or discard, I need an another one and fast. I could cut Woolly Thoctar and Mirran Crusader to make some place for Grim Lavamancer and extra KoR (don't like Steppe Lynx, it's personal lol).
I had Aether Vial in my deck to play rapidly Stoneforge but sadly it didn't help very well so I might cut it out like you suggest. Why -2 Fireblast ? and why -2 Path to place +2 Sword to Plowshares ? I don't want him to gain life.
You're right, Thrun doesn't fit in the deck. What about Green Sun Zenith ?
I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical.
I try the deck at my local store thursday and made some modifications. First of all, my meta is fast, so i think i'm gonna cut Elspeth. I also got 2 Lightning Helix and trying to make some room for them. I realize that I usually end the game with 3-4 lands and I prefer having 1-2 more lands. Is 22 lands too much ? Didn't have the chance to play my Mirran Crusader but I would have prefer KoR.
The Crusader has been doing alright in my testing. Noble Hierarch might solve your mana issues. I'm not that fond of the Helix, and I really prefer Chain Lightning . But that's personal preference.
Why cuting 4 Kird Ape ? This little guy is pretty fun.
He is, but Steppe Lynx routinely does twice as much damage when paired with a fetchland. With the Knights, it just goes nuts. And even if you don't like the Lynx, Loam Lion is probably better as well - a Big Zoo deck like this is a lot more centered on GW than the mid- and Fast Zoo variants.
I had Aether Vial in my deck to play rapidly Stoneforge but sadly it didn't help very well so I might cut it out like you suggest. Why -2 Fireblast ? and why -2 Path to place +2 Sword to Plowshares ? I don't want him to gain life.
Basically, you are playing Big Zoo. Well, currently. So the Fireblasts will have to go for two reasons:
1. Mana. You want lots of mana most of the time.
2. As mentioned, Big Zoo is centered on GW.
As for the Paths, Big Zoo does not like being outsped. Nor does it like the foe gaining life. But unlike faster variants, you have big late-game creatures (The Knights and, in most builds, Goyf), which means that the life won't be too much of a liability, since you can beat those out of them later. But don't cut Path completely - by turn three, you shouldn't care too much about the extra lands, but you will in the beginning.
You're right, Thrun doesn't fit in the deck. What about Green Sun Zenith ?
IMO, no. If you want to invest in cards, I suggest a playset of the aforementioned Noble Hierarch . Those little things speed the deck up a lot more than they might seem to, and Exalted is just sweet. I have them in my deck, and I can definitely recommend them.
The Pony Co. Because none of us are as loving as all of us.
In case contacting me over the forums is not possible for some reason or another, my email is morten.c.k.olsen@gmail.com. Please state who you are, because I will most likely end up ignoring people that I don't know at least somewhat.
You clearly overestimate my cognitive skills by assuming that I could have accumulated that knowledge independently.
Okay, I'll be sure not to make that kind of assumption in the future.
Now, if you'd like to go back to the main Magic General 'forum' page (that's the one that lists all the different 'discussion threads' that people have 'posted') from this page, just press the up-arrow key on your keyboard until you reach the top of the page, then click the link that says "Magic General"--it should be in fairly small font, just above the buttons labeled "Post Reply" and "Subscribe" and the box labeled "Jump Menu", but below the blue link labeled "Preferences". It'll be in a line with a number of other small-font links with different names.
From the 'forum' page you will be able to select another 'thread' to view; 'threads' that people have 'posted' to since you last looked at them will have their names listed in bold font and have the number of unread replies listed just to the right of the name. If you click that unread replies number, it will take you right to the last reply you viewed in the 'thread' so that you can continue reading all the new replies from there. To get back to the main Magic General 'forum' page, just repeat the process from the previous paragraph--don't worry if you're on a different page, all 'thread' pages will have the same basic layout, so it should work exactly the same on any page in the Magic General 'forum'.\
And remember, if you accidentally click on the wrong link and find yourself on a page you're not familiar with, there's no need to panic; you can always press the 'back' button in your browser to go back to whatever you were looking at before. It should be on the left-hand side near the top of the screen, just below the menu bar, and will probably have a picture of some kind of arrow pointing to the left on it.
The explanation given was that since land cards represent mystical bonds to far-off places rather than actual tangible things like creatures and other permanents, a person might have more than one memory of an area, or different mages could forge a bond to different parts of a place, etc. and that simply being a unique location doesn't necessarily mean that a land card has to be legendary.
"I remember my days as a schoolboy at the Tolarian Academy ..." "Really? I went there too-" "Wait don't- Well ****, there goes my childhood."
Allow me to extrapolate—regular game play, as defined by WotC, is tournament play. As such, Casual, EDH, Planechase, and all that other stuff is irregular Magic; if Magic at all.
So the next time someone says Competitive Constructed decks are not the only decks that count in Constructed (Casual Constructed), then I can gleefully point to the definition set forth by WotC and say that Competitive Constructed is in deed the only ones that count, and that they are playing some irregular form of Magic.
What happened to the really fun cards? Well you see a long long time ago the earth was ruled by dinosaurs. They were big so not a lot of people went around hassling them. Then a giant meteorite struck the earth, good bye dinosaurs. But what if the dinosaurs weren't all destroyed? What if the impact of that meteorite created a parallel dimension where the dinosaurs continue to thrive and evolve into intelligent vicious aggressive beings? What if they found a way back? ....wait that's not what happened to the fun cards that's the intro to the mario brothers movie. Get those two confused all the time, my bad.
It's a folllow-up on the Priceless Treasures, Deadly Perils idea. See, what happened was, you got the packs that the Eldrazi had already gotten to--the had annihilated everything but the land itself.
In fall, expect to open some packs and find cards covered in goopy, black oil.
giving your opponent a little life is no big deal, better then manafixing him. and besides, few creatures will give your opponent more then 2 life. however mana fixing and excelerating thier game can be fatal to you, expecailly when the games are so fast.
Ok, you were right. I tried with Steppe Lynx, Noble Hierarch and Sylvan Library and they were all good and make the deck better. I've got my 4 Steppe Lynx, 1 Noble Hierarch and 2 Sylvan Library. I also found a Sword to Plowshares so I'm gonna put it in my deck. What do you thing of Terravore ? Yeah, I know, Tarmogoyf is better BUT I don't have money to put on 4 Tarmagoyf (240$ instead of 40$ ...) (and must people don't want to trade it :p). Sooooo I want to know, is Terravore 's good ? With Trample, KoR and the Sword he can do pretty much damage.
I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical.
Honestly, no. The 'Vore costs more and is generally worse than Goyf. You will need to either run Goyf or, well, don't. But the deck is much better when you do. There really is no replacement for it.
The Pony Co. Because none of us are as loving as all of us.
In case contacting me over the forums is not possible for some reason or another, my email is morten.c.k.olsen@gmail.com. Please state who you are, because I will most likely end up ignoring people that I don't know at least somewhat.
You clearly overestimate my cognitive skills by assuming that I could have accumulated that knowledge independently.
Okay, I'll be sure not to make that kind of assumption in the future.
Now, if you'd like to go back to the main Magic General 'forum' page (that's the one that lists all the different 'discussion threads' that people have 'posted') from this page, just press the up-arrow key on your keyboard until you reach the top of the page, then click the link that says "Magic General"--it should be in fairly small font, just above the buttons labeled "Post Reply" and "Subscribe" and the box labeled "Jump Menu", but below the blue link labeled "Preferences". It'll be in a line with a number of other small-font links with different names.
From the 'forum' page you will be able to select another 'thread' to view; 'threads' that people have 'posted' to since you last looked at them will have their names listed in bold font and have the number of unread replies listed just to the right of the name. If you click that unread replies number, it will take you right to the last reply you viewed in the 'thread' so that you can continue reading all the new replies from there. To get back to the main Magic General 'forum' page, just repeat the process from the previous paragraph--don't worry if you're on a different page, all 'thread' pages will have the same basic layout, so it should work exactly the same on any page in the Magic General 'forum'.\
And remember, if you accidentally click on the wrong link and find yourself on a page you're not familiar with, there's no need to panic; you can always press the 'back' button in your browser to go back to whatever you were looking at before. It should be on the left-hand side near the top of the screen, just below the menu bar, and will probably have a picture of some kind of arrow pointing to the left on it.
The explanation given was that since land cards represent mystical bonds to far-off places rather than actual tangible things like creatures and other permanents, a person might have more than one memory of an area, or different mages could forge a bond to different parts of a place, etc. and that simply being a unique location doesn't necessarily mean that a land card has to be legendary.
"I remember my days as a schoolboy at the Tolarian Academy ..." "Really? I went there too-" "Wait don't- Well ****, there goes my childhood."
Allow me to extrapolate—regular game play, as defined by WotC, is tournament play. As such, Casual, EDH, Planechase, and all that other stuff is irregular Magic; if Magic at all.
So the next time someone says Competitive Constructed decks are not the only decks that count in Constructed (Casual Constructed), then I can gleefully point to the definition set forth by WotC and say that Competitive Constructed is in deed the only ones that count, and that they are playing some irregular form of Magic.
What happened to the really fun cards? Well you see a long long time ago the earth was ruled by dinosaurs. They were big so not a lot of people went around hassling them. Then a giant meteorite struck the earth, good bye dinosaurs. But what if the dinosaurs weren't all destroyed? What if the impact of that meteorite created a parallel dimension where the dinosaurs continue to thrive and evolve into intelligent vicious aggressive beings? What if they found a way back? ....wait that's not what happened to the fun cards that's the intro to the mario brothers movie. Get those two confused all the time, my bad.
It's a folllow-up on the Priceless Treasures, Deadly Perils idea. See, what happened was, you got the packs that the Eldrazi had already gotten to--the had annihilated everything but the land itself.
In fall, expect to open some packs and find cards covered in goopy, black oil.
I was looking at some deck lists and realized I had a deck that had many of these cards, so I am giving some thought to making a Legacy competitive deck out of it. I have a few questions, first:
Is this deck playable without Goyf? I have many of the cards for this deck, and can see my way to spending some money on mana base, but Goyf holds no interest to me and is not something I really want to play at this time. How big does Goyf usually get in a deck like this?
Why are pro. blue creatures not being played? If FOW and Jace 2.0 are so ubiquitous it seems like Great Sable Stag would be a big help
I was looking at some deck lists and realized I had a deck that had many of these cards, so I am giving some thought to making a Legacy competitive deck out of it. I have a few questions, first:
Is this deck playable without Goyf? I have many of the cards for this deck, and can see my way to spending some money on mana base, but Goyf holds no interest to me and is not something I really want to play at this time. How big does Goyf usually get in a deck like this?
Why are pro. blue creatures not being played? If FOW and Jace 2.0 are so ubiquitous it seems like Great Sable Stag would be a big help
1. It's doable, but it will be an uphill battle. Goyf is kind of the meat and potatoes of this deck - he will typically get up to a 4/5 in any given game (Land, Instant, Sorcery, Creature) and will often get to a 5/6 (blowing up a Pridemage on a Vial/Jitte/Counterbalance). for a creature of that magnitude cannot be ignored in a deck like this. Edit: A somewhat efficient replacement is Jötun Grunt since it can shrink opposing Goyfs, thus keeping your opponent on their toes.
2. Pro-blue creatures are honestly not needed. In general, Zoo has a favorable matchup against Blue decks (with the exception of High Tide) since Zoo has a high threat density. FOW and other counterspells aren't an issue other than Counterbalance , which is one of the reasons Qasali Pridemage is played.
3. It really depends on what you're facing. In some cases you will just puke out your entire hand because you know they don't have mass removal (Wrath of God , Firespout , etc). Other games you have to somewhat slow-roll it and try to connect a few times with Goyf, Wild Nacatl, etc.
4. Ehh...Crusader probably isn't worth it. I personally haven't tested him so I can't be sure, but on paper he just seems worse that Knight of the Reliquary which is the typical 3-drop for Zoo.
1. It's doable, but it will be an uphill battle. Goyf is kind of the meat and potatoes of this deck - he will typically get up to a 4/5 in any given game (Land, Instant, Sorcery, Creature) and will often get to a 5/6 (blowing up a Pridemage on a Vial/Jitte/Counterbalance). for a creature of that magnitude cannot be ignored in a deck like this. Edit: A somewhat efficient replacement is Jötun Grunt since it can shrink opposing Goyfs, thus keeping your opponent on their toes.
I've always liked grunt, and I may try it, but what does the typical graveyard look like in Legacy? I can see the advantage of this against Goyf, but what about other top archetypes? I was just worried that it might end up hurting my Knight of the Reliquary if my opponent's graveyard is small.
. 4. Ehh...Crusader probably isn't worth it. I personally haven't tested him so I can't be sure, but on paper he just seems worse that Knight of the Reliquary which is the typical 3-drop for Zoo.
So the curve is that fragile, eh? Meaning there is not enough wiggle room in the curve for a few more 3 drops? I know curve it critical, but in other formats there is some room for innovation or taste. Is it Legacy as a format, or this deck specifically that is so conservative in it's curve?
Shalom! ------------------------------ "That's the trouble with the Multiverse: the inability to easily make holes."- "Marky" Mark Rosewater
1. It's doable, but it will be an uphill battle. Goyf is kind of the meat and potatoes of this deck - he will typically get up to a 4/5 in any given game (Land, Instant, Sorcery, Creature) and will often get to a 5/6 (blowing up a Pridemage on a Vial/Jitte/Counterbalance). for a creature of that magnitude cannot be ignored in a deck like this. Edit: A somewhat efficient replacement is Jötun Grunt since it can shrink opposing Goyfs, thus keeping your opponent on their toes.
I've always liked grunt, and I may try it, but what does the typical graveyard look like in Legacy? I can see the advantage of this against Goyf, but what about other top archetypes? I was just worried that it might end up hurting my Knight of the Reliquary if my opponent's graveyard is small.
. 4. Ehh...Crusader probably isn't worth it. I personally haven't tested him so I can't be sure, but on paper he just seems worse that Knight of the Reliquary which is the typical 3-drop for Zoo.
So the curve is that fragile, eh? Meaning there is not enough wiggle room in the curve for a few more 3 drops? I know curve it critical, but in other formats there is some room for innovation or taste. Is it Legacy as a format, or this deck specifically that is so conservative in it's curve?
Graveyards are pretty key in a lot of matchups, as a lot of people run Tarmogoyf, Dredge [in general], opposing Knights, Crucible of World engines, Life from the Loam engines, opposing Jotun Grunts, etc.
If you're big zoo, you could probably fit in 1-2 Mirran Crusaders.
I've been running this list for a while now, and besides my painful mana base, I'm rather happy with it. Though I've been considering dropping a Lynx, mostly because I generally only want to see 1 a game (on turn 1). Also, I've only really ever cast KotR a couple of times, and generally all she good for is just popping a land, grabing a fetch, then cracking the fetch to get a second copy of the land I just popped. And other than powering her up to be a 5+/5+ attack the following turn, it's only good for Lynx (who I tend to send to their deaths when I'm getting low so I can turn them into either wild removal spells, or just speed bumps.
Magus as proven to almost be my favorate of the 2 utility guys. Generally by the time I want to play them I have 3 mana and am/near top decking so his draw back is lighter (plus I can head games people with him, like VS Storm if I've dragged the game on that long I just keep naming Mindbreak Trap). However, there are definetly times were I want Lavamancer, so I'm happy with my 1/2 split.
Jittes mostly in the Board for making up the difference in life my manabase makes. Jitte either helps me power through Aggro with faster speed, or helps me dodge lethal burn after I've bolted myself twice by turn 2 just to ensure I can curve out.
I don't know how much longer a buddy is going to continue to let me borrow Foothills #3, so that may become another Foundry, unless I can get another fetch.
Grip is becoming less relavent, so they may get replaced for something else.
