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Glux wrote:

Kithkin has plenty of flying!

Spec Proc? Cloudgoat?

yeah, but they lose those after the rotation, which is a problem if they arent replaced i think

Qilong wrote:

It is an issue not immediately relevant, nor is debating how to make a deck based only on what will still be in Standard without knowing what will be added to Standard very useful right now. I would caution people in pushing this point, since it serves little constructive purpose. As an example, I did not remove Moggies from my B/R decks until after the change occured, when I had replacements lined up. This actually causes the deck to reshape due to the new gaps, and because of this, you cannot know what is still going to be perfectly useful or relevant when newer cards are added to the mix.

you make a valid point. i was just responding to a question about what i plan to do with the deck after zendikar. without having seen anything from the set, i cant speculate too much ,except that if we lacked some sort of evasion in the deck i dont think i personally would be able to have success with it

but yeah lets talk about the current builds. anyone have other techs for 5cc? i saw one list with only 2 stalwart md and instead of the other 2 it ran 2 baneslayer md for against double dragon, that was interesting to me

also im thinking 2 ajani 1 elspeth md could be useful??

Smokiehunter wrote:

It is, however, very important to note that we will be losing the set that makes WW work. No other deck (other than fae) will be hit as hard with the lose of this huge block. Alara was a huge miss for WW and I believe it is important for us to discuss what cards could be important for WW so people can go and buy the more important cards that will most likely sky rocket in price after LMSE rotates. For example CotW was only 5 bucks at a local card shop that jacks up prices. that card is going to go up very quickly post rotation.

Considering 5cc loses their entire manabase.. I'd say that they are hit just as hard as Kithkin is. Playing 5cc without Vivids/filters/pools, is like playing Kithkin... without kithkin.

The only deck that will survive the rotation, really, is Bant Aggro. And still, they're mana-base is getting fubar'd (they already took a big hit from losing ping-lands.)

I'm not trying to start a debate on what we should start replacing or even if WW will survive. And We already know that the Alara block is not very supportive of WW. I was just suggesting that we could have a section cornered off for a debate on what cards we should get a hold of now because no matter what the rotation looks like those cards are a basic must. For example every person looking to play WW should get there hands on HotP. That one is obvious but I would like to shift the debate to cards like Armor smith vs weapon smith, and such... the current build should be the main focus but it couldn't hurt to speculate a little bit.

Smokiehunter wrote:

I'm not trying to start a debate on what we should start replacing or even if WW will survive. And We already know that the Alara block is not very supportive of WW. I was just suggesting that we could have a section cornered off for a debate on what cards we should get a hold of now because no matter what the rotation looks like those cards are a basic must. For example every person looking to play WW should get there hands on HotP. That one is obvious but I would like to shift the debate to cards like Armor smith vs weapon smith, and such... the current build should be the main focus but it couldn't hurt to speculate a little bit.

Right now, the best cards for WW in m10 are going to be, in order:

Honor of the Pure
Veteran Armorsmith
Harm's Way
Silence
Captain of the Watch
Veteran Swordsmith
White Knight

I shouldn't need to point out why you should already have a playset of Honor.

Armorsmith is probably the single best creature card for WW in M10, as a 2/3 for 2 which immediately makes KoM immune to Fallout or Infest , among many others. It is a card that doesn't need to die to support your team, like BFT.

After this, HW is a weak but cheap Shoal that gives you the ability to edge out damage and can help you kill your opponent even when blocking, but moreover to help you recalculate your opponent's damage.

Silence comes in when you need to stop your opponent from performing tricks such as multiple spells in a turn, fights control and combo like Elves all in one swing, but is otherwise weak mainboarded becaue it has no specific ways to fight the game.

Only then does the Captain come in, because even though it's pump, you must be on theme. This was good when you have Cenn because aside from Spectral and Ranger, all your team were Kithkin. Now, she only favors soldiers, so cannot pump Cenn, BFT, or KoM, or any clerics, angels, etc that come in. She forces a generic deck structure that peaks at a high curve, which is deadly to nonmidrange decks. There is little she can do that Ajani can also do, although as a replacement for Ranger she may be favorable, this is down the road.

The Swordsmith at this point is useful, but you must favor it with first strikers, which is where it shines. Creating a flanking wall of 3 power first strike pretty much ensures all combat against Elves, Faeries, etc. is winnable.

White Knight won't see much play, but is likely to be a good choice from the Sideboard versus Black, even if he dies to Infest .