Exodus Knife Problems

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The Exodus Knife otherwise known as the 5-minute work day knife in 4E is going to be a problem in my game. It is uncommon which means it can still be created and easily found or purchased by characters and literally allows the 5-minute work day. They can stop and rest at any time for 8 hours. After resting they recover the power of the knife.

So how does a DM deal with an Exodus Knife in 4E?

About the only thing I can think of RAW would be invisible monsters raiding the hiding place when its opened, but that would get old fast. I want them to struggle sometimes and the Exodus Knife totally ruins that in every instance...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
The Exodus Knife otherwise known as the 5-minute work day knife in 4E is going to be a problem in my game. It is uncommon which means it can still be created and easily found or purchased by characters and literally allows the 5-minute work day. They can stop and rest at any time for 8 hours. After resting they recover the power of the knife.

So how does a DM deal with an Exodus Knife in 4E?

Time limits will deal with this and with any other issuer pertaining to over-resting. They're universally applicable and a staple of adventure fiction. Let the players take all the time they want, but make it possible for them to fail if they take more than the allotted time. Failure should be interesting, of course, but it should keep things moving.

Edit: Actually, talk this issue over with your group and see what they think. Time limits are only one possible solution and if they don't like that they can suggest others.

If I have to ask the GM for it, then I don't want it.

1: time limits.

2: unless they're completely secreted when they put the thing into place, then there's an ambush waiting when they come out.  Even fi they are, I don;t think the doorway is in any way hidden.

But more than anything, talk to them about it, if it's annoying you.  Come to an agreement about ways for it to still be useful, but to be less annoying.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Don't tie mechanical 'extended rests' to time-periods in-game, resting or not. Let the daily resources return when it is appropriate.

 It is uncommon which means it can still be created and easily found or purchased


No, only treat rarity as a suggestion. All magic items are by DM-discretion. If you don't want it in your game, just ban it. However, when doing so, it would be reasonable to explain to your players why you are doing what you're doing.  
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Maybe they just don't like to be challenged in terms of their daily resource management. Or challenged at all. A direct discussion is required to ask them if this is their idea of fun and why it's not your idea of fun. Compromise. There's no real incentive in D&D to take a lot of risks, sadly, and a lot of reasons not to. This would seem to fly in the face of being fantasy heroes, but there you are.

Putting rest in terms of time was stupid to begin with and this is one of the outcomes. I deal with it with time pressure and players that also think 5MWDs are lame, but I've also found objective-based resting to be a great deal of fun.

For any decision or adjudication, ask yourself, "Is this going to be fun for everyone?" and "Is this going to lead to the creation of an exciting, memorable story?"

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It is uncommon which means it can still be created and easily found or purchased by characters



Actually, no. RAW (starting with Mordenkainen's Mag. Emporium, I believe, but certainly true as of the Rules Compendium), only Common items can be purchased or created by characters. So this is entirely at the DM's discretion.

Plus, all the other useful advice above.

I've got to agree with iserith here - the underlying issue seems to be that you and your players have a different idea of what's fun.

First of all, make sure they're actually serious about abusing it. My group will find exploits like that and talk and joke about it, but when it comes to the actual game they will choose not to abuse the system. If they do intend to use the knife that way, you need to ask them why they want to play that way.

Maybe they haven't really thought through how it would remove some of the challenge.
Maybe they want big one-shot battles that require all they've got.
Maybe they're just afraid you're trying to kill them because they don't understand D&D is a cooperative game.

You just don't know until you ask them. But either way, you need to change the atmosphere of "Hey, maybe we can screw over the DM with THIS!" You're there to tell a story with them, not to thwart their plans. And they're not there to thwart yours.
I don't think it is generally enforced, but I believe the rules allow for only 1 extended rest every 12 hours. If used appropriately the item is just one of those things that allows them not to have to set guards or find safe places to rest, it can speed things up if they aren't having to retreat from dungeons constantly.

In the end, the game is not a competitive one, the players shouldn't be looking for loopholes to exploit and thwart the DM, they should cooperate with you and know its in their best interest not to try and break the game. God, I sound so naive advising you to appeal to their sense of fair play, I forget that players are the real monsters... Wink
Time limits and lack of extended rest meaning "go to bed" is the simplest solution. I personally prefer "encounter attack powers are rechargable like monster recharge powers" and "daily attack powers can be recharged at a rate of 1 during short rest if you have none left". Keeps things moving without the blatant need for PCs to be loaded to the teeth with all their nasty toys after six straight encounters, but gives them enough to work with so that they don't have to call for a dinner break.

Happy Gaming
It is uncommon which means it can still be created and easily found or purchased by characters



Actually, no. RAW (starting with Mordenkainen's Mag. Emporium, I believe, but certainly true as of the Rules Compendium), only Common items can be purchased or created by characters. So this is entirely at the DM's discretion.

Plus, all the other useful advice above.




Exactly, common items are readily available for creatin/purchase.
Uncommon ones are granted by the dm, or available for purchase at the dm's discretion.

By RAW, if an uncommon item is in your game, it is because the dm allowed it to be there. 
FWIW [4e designer] baseline assumption was that roughly 70% of your feats would be put towards combat effectiveness, parties would coordinate, and strikers would do 20/40/60 at-will damage+novas. If your party isn't doing that... well, you are below baseline, so yes, you need to optimize slightly to meet baseline. -Alcestis
Ok, thanks for the tips.

I'm going to use a combination of most of them.

I talked to my players and I think we have it solved...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Ok, thanks for the tips.

I'm going to use a combination of most of them.

I talked to my players and I think we have it solved...

Excellent. Good luck.

If I have to ask the GM for it, then I don't want it.

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