Unyielding Sentinel & Vigor of Battle

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"Vigor of Battle (30th level): Once the blood of your enemies begins to flow, you cannot be stopped. Arrows and spells fly your way, yet each time you cut down an enemy, you find new ways to shrug off the effects of your wounds to continue fighting. As long as your enemies continue to die by your hand, you cannot be brought low.
  Once per round, when you reduce a nonminion enemy to 0 hit points, you regain hit points as though you had spent a healing surge."


Anyone else have trouble with this?  In many circumstances this is very broken.  The main "tank" of the party no longer needs the cleric even half as much as before.  If the encounter is a big one, the tank really doesn't need the cleric at all.

Granted, this is overcome by creating encounters with only a small handful of very powerful monsters.  But that gets old, especially for a group who enjoy large-scale battles with lots of enemies.  And in that case, an Vigor of Battle becomes way overpowered.  He becomes a freakin' energizer bunny.

It seems it'd be much more reasonable if they made it "when you reduce a nonminion to 0 hit points, you may spend a healing surge".  That's still really good but at least it has a cap to it!
You are looking at a level 30 capstone power. Many of them are comparable to his in their level of broken.* Enough so that it's pretty clear that's the intended power level at the pinnacle of your career. For a well-built and thought out character, level 30 is pretty much a victory lap.

And if you don't want it to be, challenge him from the DM side, not by nerfing his ED. There are plenty of ways to fail at full HP.

I'd imagine it's also not quite as good as it seems on paper. At any rate, don't make a rule about nerfing a level 30 power until your group is level 29 and you have a better grasp of how it would work in real combat.

* A couple examples off the top of my head:

Thief of Legend - No one can see you unless you want them to. Ever.

Archmage - Your best daily is now an encounter power. Couple this with the multiple ways you can recharge encounters in epic, and you're firing off your best daily in the first three rounds of every combat.
To add on to that - the feature requires the, "main tank," to land a killing blow. Particularly with capstones in play, the strikers should be "stealing" the vast majority of the kills.

 An infernal pact warlock, from first level on, has the ability to gain temporary hit points equal to their level when anyone kills a creature they've cursed, and it doesn't have to be a non-minion either... They can also gain this benefit more than once per round. If they have three minions cursed and somebody pops off a fireball, they get the temp HP for all three kills. Even though infernal pact warlocks are CON-based, pretty soon the number of hitpoints they're gaining is going to start exceeding their healing surge value.
 Regaining a healing surge's worth of HP when your defender kills someone (and it should be mostly the strikers making the kills anyway) isn't particularly broken.

 As the others have mentioned, this is the pinnacle of the character's career. Epic character's are supposed to be close to becoming demigods - many of the Epic Destinies allow you to die once per day without any ill effects.

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It's a 30th level capstone, it's supposed to be broken.  That one's actually pretty tame.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.

 If they have three minions cursed and somebody pops off a fireball, they get the temp HP for all three kills.



Just to make sure you're playing this right, MadJack.  The Temp HP do not add together.  So, 3 cursed minions defeated by a single attack grant the same amount of Temp HP as if only ONE of them was defeated.

 Sure, but that's a fuction of temp hit points, rather than their power - the warlock's pact boon still triggers three times, even if those temp hit points don't do anything. Anything that triggers off the pact boon happening would be processed three times.

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I am the Magic Man.

(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.)

 

I am the Lawnmower Man.

(I AM GOD HERE!)

 

I am the Skull God.

(Koo Koo Ka Choo)

 

There are reasons they call me Mad...

You bring up good points.  I suppose it's just causing an issue with our party.
The party has three level 30s.
One is a Chosen (basically a Demigod).  After the nerf given to his level 30, he really only gets one extra Encounter.  Whoopee.
One is an Archmage.  While whipping out his chosen Daily as an Encounter is seriously awesome, I haven't noticed it "breaking" any encounters or plans.
The last is the Unyielding Sentinel.  He is a Fighter who has spec'd himself out to deal serious damage, so he kills things often.  His ability to heal as if he spent a surge after killing a non-minion has made him out-shine the rest of the group by a significant and noticeable amount.

Now, all of this isn't a big deal.  In all honesty, this party are the "retired" characters.  We've made a new party, currently level 16s, who are linked to the first campaign we did (a few of them are the sons of the level 30 party).  So typically, the level 30 group only make cameo appearances now and then.  It just so happens they're sort of having a big role in this story, making their way through Hell to accomplish a big goal, while the new group (who are the main focus of the story, overall) are doing something else.  But let me tell ya, the Unyielding Sentinel is mopping the floor!

It may be that he's built in a way that just... well, devastates.
1. He's got items that allow him to re-roll 10s and re-roll 1s on his damage rolls.
2. He has the epic feats to crit on 19-20, and he has the feat that gives -2 to attacks/AC after a crit (which was recently changed to last a full encounter, no longer "save ends").
3. He's got the feat that lets him roll saves for most controlling effects at the start of his round.  Combined with rolling twice for saves (Unyielding Sentinel) it makes him extraordinarily difficult to control.

Of note: Our striker is a level 28 Rogue.  He's a Halfling, Artful Dodger, Master Infiltrator, Deadly Trickster.  He's really good, and does good damage, but he isn't as spec'd to damage-dealing as Rogues could be (he is played as more of a stealth-master type).  The fighter easily averages the same amount of damage as the Rogue per encounter, particularly if it's the one encounter/day he uses Force the Battle.
Sounds to me like your real issue is that the fighter is playing at a higher level of optimization than the rest. If the Archmage isn't breaking encounters, he's picking the wrong powers.

Again, I'd advise you to try alternate encounter goals if you want to even the playing field between PCs. Make a battle that's not just about killing monsters, and give the party goals that cater to the strengths of the other party members.

For instance, the fighter might have to hold off a never-ending stream of monsters coming out of the next room while the rogue sneaks around to trigger a portcullis to close off the entrance. The encounter doesn't end by killing everything, it ends when the rogue succeeds in his goal.

And as an aside, you really should just bump the rogue to 30. Mixed-level parties don't work well in 4e, and the gap between 28 and 30 is even wider than most.
Yes, I've learned encounters that the fighter isn't mopping up.  Mostly it's just about limiting the number of monsters and beefing them up.  A group of really good Elites do the trick well.  I think it's just that we've always enjoys a healthy amount of "big" fights where **** going crazy all over.  Admittedly, the Archmage enjoys this since it gives him lots of targets, and he -does- control the everloving hell out of the battlefield.  Maybe I'm just focusing on the fighter because I play the cleric, and I'm all "why the hell am I never having to heal you anymore?" lol

Furthermore, the cleric is the Chosen, and the level 30 for them is now so useless I don't even really think to use it since it doesn't really make a difference.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />And as an aside, you really should just bump the rogue to 30. Mixed-level parties don't work well in 4e, and the gap between 28 and 30 is even wider than most.


Just want to emphasise this.  Why is the Rogue lower level than the fighter?  Why does the fighter have all the cool strikery items, rather than the rogue (rerolling max [W]s and brutal 1 are prettynice for a Rogue...

And yeah, if an Archmage (Wizard?) isn't essentially neutering pretty much all the encounters, something has gone awry with the character choices - using your D29 as an E29 (and bearing in mind how many ways there are to recharge encounter powers...) is game-shattering most of the time.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />And as an aside, you really should just bump the rogue to 30. Mixed-level parties don't work well in 4e, and the gap between 28 and 30 is even wider than most.


Just want to emphasise this.  Why is the Rogue lower level than the fighter?  Why does the fighter have all the cool strikery items, rather than the rogue (rerolling max [W]s and brutal 1 are prettynice for a Rogue...

And yeah, if an Archmage (Wizard?) isn't essentially neutering pretty much all the encounters, something has gone awry with the character choices - using your D29 as an E29 (and bearing in mind how many ways there are to recharge encounter powers...) is game-shattering most of the time.



It might be because we do our best to stick to the core books when it comes to powers.  We allow Feats and such from all over, since 4e pretty much requires all of that for the math to work out.  But we stick to the core powers, and D29 for Wizard are really good, but not game-shattering.