The Dark Side is physically corrosive?

I don't know when or where this was started, but is it true (under the majority of games) that the use of the Dark Side will eventually manifest itself physically on the user? Signs include advanced aging, scarring, sunken eyes and the like.
This new forum is terrible. Try again Wizards ----Narukagami Why the FN 5-7 is poorly statted...and other stuff U.S. Military versus ancient Roman army The Tower: a zombie apocalypse haven Is the Dark Side physically corrosive? Could Mace Windu be alive?
In RCR and earlier renditions of the Star Wars game, yes, the Dark Side did give you physical penalties as you descended further and further toward the Dark Side. However, this was mostly based on Palpatine's appearance in the original trilogy. The Dark Side has no physical effect on a character, although its mental effects are much more devastating.
How about Star Wars fiction besides the movies (novels, comics, radio shows, etc)?
Anything that was created before Episode III, yes. Anything post-that, not to my knowledge.

Well, okay, you get the awesome yellow eyes. But is that really a bad thing?
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57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
Not when you preface "yellow eyes" with "awesome" it isn't .
The KOTOR games especially the 2nd really showed the darkside appearence vs. the lightside/normal. In KotOR 2 it would affect your friends and would change their clothes and appearance. It would also give Bao-dur really cool tatoos.
I don't know when or where this was started, but is it true (under the majority of games) that the use of the Dark Side will eventually manifest itself physically on the user? Signs include advanced aging, scarring, sunken eyes and the like.

It is true. And, as it should be. Bad guys wear black hats; Sith get stuck with being icky looking.

But, is what you are really getting at is therefore to be some game mechanic penalty? There is: you go Dark Side at the cost of your immortal soul (which, in this universe, means you don't get to join with the Force). Isn't that penalty enough?
The effect partially comes from George Lucas likening the difference between the Light and Dark side as symbiosis and cancer (though, cancer's a really bad metaphor George- it doesn't even make biological sense!).

The ``Mask'' dark side ability (see wookiepedia) is one explanation of Sith getting around this perceived problem. Also, facial makeup is mentioned in KOTOR 1 to Revan on the Dresdae settlement, Korriban.

However, you'd have to wonder how hard it is on Sith that their appearance changes if they start falling to the dark side. Revan standing there in KOTOR with grey skin, yellow eyes and speaking to the council about how he's going to adhere to the light (at least in my game) is a little silly.

Plus, you'd see some pale people getting kicked out of the order very quickly. Albino discrimination! Arkanians and Umbarrans unite!

There's the explanation that excessive dark side use causes this appearance. That's also possible.

But you'd naturally expect evil to be charming (at least I would) at least half the time. One of the bigger gripes I had with Fable 1. Look at Palpatine. He would have had a massive charisma check to pull off some of his silver tongued schemes.

So the wrinkles, pasty skin and white hair tend to put a crimp in that a little. Darth Maul made no sense in the RCR either- why train a sith to be a battle behemoth (Or Darth Bane for that matter) if they're going to become withered and weak?

It's a real grey area with no clear answer, you've just got to go with what's best for your group.
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Well, you could always recycle the Wis score cap on DSPs and each time it is recycled the character suffers physical penalties...

ex. Wis 12 and the character earns DSP #13, they are listed as Dark x1, DSP 1. When they gain another 12 DSPs, they become Dark x2, DSP 1. Etc.

For each x#, the # could serve as a penalty to Cha making your strength in the Force decreases a little and your physical appearance suffers as well. Or you could apply the penalty elsewhere if you want.

I mean. for really evil characters, the DSP limit seems kind of weak IMO.

Just a thought.

Cheers,
-JG
the whole "dark side corruption" came from the EU to explain palpatine's apperance. apparently the thought that he was wrinkled because he's old apparently nevr occured to the "Genuises" writing dark empire
Perhaps the Dark Side only physically deforms you if you only use the telekinetic/distant type Force powers that are associated with evil? This allows fighter types like Darth Maul to still be nimble.
...Or it could be that it doesn't, and you look like that after getting slammed in the Face by Force Lightning for a good thirty seconds straight.

You know, like Palpatine.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
Or it could be that it does - Palpatine is a popular Dark Side user, but not the only one.
Yes, but the EU based the theory of Dark Side corruption on Palpatine. The other Dark-Siders we've seen have been just fine physically (i.e. Maul, Dooku, and Vader before getting his limbs chopped off).
Yes, but the EU based the theory of Dark Side corruption on Palpatine. The other Dark-Siders we've seen have been just fine physically (i.e. Maul, Dooku, and Vader before getting his limbs chopped off).

True, but realize also that Maul was relatively young, Dooku hadn't been exposed to the Dark Side for all that long, and Vader (before getting his limbs chopped off) was only a Sith for a day or so.

Maul's power was focused on enhancing his physical abilities. I'm sure that, as he aged, he would have looked into more mental and mind-affecting powers.

Dooku was only a Sith for a decade, maybe a decade and a half. He was an older man and a Jedi Master before he came under Sidious' mentorship. Compared to Sidious' term as a Sith, that's not a long time.

Vader - at the end of Jedi - had been in a physically sustaining suit of cybernetic armor. This probably helped to maintain his physical state at something of a "normal" level. Well, as normal as he could get, anyway.

None of these three are a good comparison for Sidious, we spent several decades steeped in the Dark Side, fully exposed to its power on several occasions. (Kinda like Merlin being exposed to the Dragon's Breath in Excalibur) There is no way that Maul, Tyrannus or Vader were in any way on the same level as Sidious.

If the Dark Side were going to physically deform any of the Sith in the films, it would have been Sidious.
If the Dark Side were going to physically deform any of the Sith in the films, it would have been Sidious.

Except it didn't. That was the lightning. It's canon. Deal.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
Except it didn't. That was the lightning. It's canon. Deal.

Or, you know, you could not be a jerk ...
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Or, you know, you could not be a jerk ...

It doesn't make my point any less valid, and brings delight to the souls of children everywhere.

Okay, maybe not everywhere, but like the three that read this board think it's funny. And who am I to say no to children?
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
It also complicates matters if you see Return of the Jedi before any of the Prequel Trilogy, or read the EU novels set around the Battle of Endor.
Except it didn't. That was the lightning. It's canon. Deal.

Not necessarily, my friend.

Perhaps the Dark Side only physically deforms you if you only use the telekinetic/distant type Force powers that are associated with evil? This allows fighter types like Darth Maul to still be nimble.

I doubt it. Darth Maul was just a poor excuse for a dark sider. He was limited to rage and barely had any true sith power.
I doubt it. Darth Maul was just a poor excuse for a dark sider. He was limited to rage and barely had any true sith power.

Couple that with only a few years of exposure to the Dark Side, as opposed to Sidious' decades of exposure . . . . yeah, he just wasn't around long enough to get deformed and withered.

The yellow eyes had already set in, though. And he had bad teeth.
Maul probably had a few Soldier levels.
Not necessarily, my friend.


Yes. Necessarily.

No matter how much we all dislike them, the highest canon in Star Wars are the movies. Unless there's a specific retcon, if something contradicts the movies the movies are right.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
Right after Anakin's fall, when Vader and the 501st attack the Temple, his eyes are that same iridescent yellow. I forget if they remain that color for the rest of the film or not, but they make a point of doing a close-up to show his corrupted eyes. This was mere hours, at most, from his embracing the Dark Side.

That said, I still agree with Tsuyoshikentsu here, and I run my games accordingly. The only time that Dark Siders appear physically corrupted is if the story demands it. (I do factor in a person's Dark Side Score when I tell them the results of their Perception checks, though.)

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Yes. Necessarily.

No matter how much we all dislike them, the highest canon in Star Wars are the movies. Unless there's a specific retcon, if something contradicts the movies the movies are right.

Highest, yes, but not the only canon. I can choose to allow something that has been expressed repeatedly in the EU, but not in the films, into my game.

Remember, according to G-Canon, Greedo shot first. :rolleye2:

There wasn't anything in the films that expressly confirmed that the disfiguring of Palpatine was caused solely by the lightning being reflected back at him, so I consider it probable to conclude that his disfiguring was a combination of the Dark Side corrupting his body (which was hidden by some means) and damage caused by the lightning.
It would also fit in nicely with the whole Sith's main power being deception and all.
The Dark Side does change a person. That's established. And it ought be that way - evil having consequences is a long established trope of this genre. At the very least, it gives you yellow eyes when you are in the grip of anger/hatred.

I think the extent of how far to go with that beyond the obvious is a matter of interpretation.

The movie novelization implies that the Sith, while gaining some ability (unnatural Force use) by embracing the Dark Side, also lose access to others.
Highest, yes, but not the only canon. I can choose to allow something that has been expressed repeatedly in the EU, but not in the films, into my game.

If you want, you can say that in your games the highest canon is Ewok Adventures. (And if you do, please tell me because I totally want in. I love those guys.) If you go by the movies, it was the lightning. Palpatine even says so.

Remember, according to G-Canon, Greedo shot first. :rolleye2:

Yup. By .0667 of a second. Annoying, but canon.

There wasn't anything in the films that expressly confirmed that the disfiguring of Palpatine was caused solely by the lightning being reflected back at him, so I consider it probable to conclude that his disfiguring was a combination of the Dark Side corrupting his body (which was hidden by some means) and damage caused by the lightning.

Right, because this is a far simpler and more reasonable answer than "it was the lightning slagging his face."
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
Palpatine even says so.

Do keep in mind he lied to the senate to gain power :P.
Do keep in mind he lied to the senate to gain power :P.

Yup. Palpatine also said the Jedi were evil and going to overthrow the Republic. ``Treachery is the way of the Sith.''
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Oh, he was still lying. I mean, it wasn't a Jedi assassination attempt. But I find that the most convincing lies have a grain of truth in them (the Jedi really were out to get Palpatine, etc.)-- and besides, his face melted when the electricity was on him. I mean, cause --> effect.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
I'm partial to the theory that he decided the energy spent keeping up the charade of a "normal" face wasn't important at that moment, so he decided to cease for the purposes of supporting his statement that the Jedi scarred him. There could still be some visible damage from the lightning itself, though.
And if you do, please tell me because I totally want in. I love those guys.

Sorry, no. Ewoks and Gungans are banned from my games. They're just too much fun to kill! (I play Battlefront II just for the Endor & Naboo Hunt levels.)

It was the lightning. Palpatine even says so.

Yeah, the noted liar (as has been already noted) is a definite source of reliable information. Telling the truth isn't exactly in his character.

Right, because this is a far simpler and more reasonable answer than "it was the lightning slagging his face."

Just trying to reconcile existing EU with the "quick and easy" answer. Wasn't Luke fried for a similar amount of screen time by the same power from the same guy? I don't remember his face melting . . . . and that is why I can't buy that it was "just the lightning."

Now, don't get me wrong - run your game from the perspective that you want to. That's all I'm doing, really.
Just trying to reconcile existing EU with the "quick and easy" answer. Wasn't Luke fried for a similar amount of screen time by the same power from the same guy?

Not really. He got short, intermittent bursts; notice that the face melt didn't start until it had been sustained for a few dozen seconds.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
Isn't it possible, though, that Palpatine leveled up in the 20-25 odd years between Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi?
guys, one thing I think we can all agree on, after witnessing Palpatine's performance, even if the dark side is physiclly deforming it doesn; impact physical stats like the earlier editions of D20 SWRPG suggested.

Are we in agreement?

*note if you disagree you're damn well going to have to explain Palpatine*
True. No physical stat changes, anyway.

As to him leveling, notice that Force Lightning doesn't change damage with level.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
True. No physical stat changes, anyway.

As to him leveling, notice that Force Lightning doesn't change damage with level.

I agree with the first point.

As to the second point, Lightning doesn't change damage with level . . . . until you're a Sith Lord with the Devastating Power Force Secret. Then you can increase the damage from 8d6 (8-48 damage) to 12d6 (12-72 damage) by spending a Force Point or 16d6 (16-96 damage) by spending a Destiny Point.

That's some "unlimted powah," eh?
IMAGE(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/AzarKing/Animated%20Icons/clap.gif)

As for the fact that it didn't hinder him physically, well...I initially brought up the whole Dark Side scarring bit in a thematic sense, not anything stat related.
Are we in agreement?

In the way you presented it (re: how it was handled in previous editions): yes.

Otherwise, no.

The Dark Side does change a person. As I stated, at the very least, it gives the person the ability to get yellow eyes (which is probably from being in the full flush of anger/hatred/rage, it seems).

I see no reason why, for another person, for certain reasons, it couldn't manifest itself as physical stat decreases, or allow for "melty faces" under certain conditions. That King Whatshisname Sith dude comes to mind ...

But the fact still remains - the Dark Side changes you. How it does should probably be story-driven and unique to each individual.

Yes?
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