Zaalbar and Zayne Carrick stats!

From SWMgamers.com



Zayne Carrick
Cost-24
Hp-70
Def-18
Att-+7
Dam-20

Sa-Melee Attack, Double Attack, Karmic Mettle, Cortosis Gauntlet 18
Karmic Luck-If your initiative check is an odd number, +4 to all this character's rolls for the round; if it is an ever number, -4 to all his rolls instead

Force-1
Force Renewal 1, Lightsaber Block, Jedi Mind Trick

Zaalbar
Cost-29
Hp-100
Def-16
Att-+7
Dam-20

Sa-Close-Quarters Fighning, Double Attack, Mighty Swing


http://www.swmgamers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=4237&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

I'm a little disappointed about Zaalbar...
wow, initiative looks pretty big for zayne. i was kinda hoping his base attack would be a bit higher, to think that he can have a +3 attack on a bad init roll is just scary. but for 24 points he could be fun.
Hopefully Mission will give Zaalbar bodyguard.....

Loving Zayne though. 24 points is a nice cost, and while he could have +3 attack, he could also have +11.... ;)
Cortosis guantlet is a nice touch, especially with unlimited Lightsaber Block.

Zaalbar's okay. I like the close quarters fighting and mighty swing. The high HP will be nice too. He'll be a nice addition for the OR against Mid-Threat Melee-ers.
Hopefully Mission will give Zaalbar bodyguard.....

Loving Zayne though. 24 points is a nice cost, and while he could have +3 attack, he could also have +11.... ;)
Cortosis guantlet is a nice touch, especially with unlimited Lightsaber Block.

He'd only need a 14+ on lightsaber block to get a CG with his luck up. 6+ if he had mettle and MOTF.

Also, I really like that he's going to have his luck up all the time against a MTB engine. Karma, indeed!
Is Zayne OR or is he Fringe?
Both are Fringe pieces...

And to the OP....on the forum you grabbed the stats from....please go read the sticky post....the one that goes "Information in this section of the Forums"....please read and remember next time...
They're both Fringe.

For now, I'm a little skeptical of the stats, primarily because Karmic Luck wasn't on the KotOR insert.
Its pretty self-explanatory, and it is like WotC to forget something in the Rules Insert. I like the ability, and I trust the source of the stats, so I'd say its true...
They're both Fringe.

For now, I'm a little skeptical of the stats, primarily because Karmic Luck wasn't on the KotOR insert.

There have been new abilities that haven't been on the insert before. Demolition Charge, for example.

And there is currently some debate on whether Mettle will work with the Gauntlets.
I like Zayne, it's nice to see the stats play close to the character...

Zaalbar is ok, maybe he will get a boost from Mission...
From what I read for Zayne, if you get odds, push the advantage, if you get evens, pull him back. I think I'll be using a coin to keep attract of his Karma... He keeps poping in my 'cases' on Bloomilk...

Our Madclaw wookiee here looks alright, not stellar but he'll blast/beat something to death. Zaalbar could be a good bodyguard for Yoda, JM as closing in to both = DOOM. :P
Kinda wish Big Z had Bodyguard ... but life goes on ... he's very much in the Chewie range , seems costed about right.

Zayne is as true to character as you can get ... I love all the Karma!!!... seems like Qui-Gon JM could take him under his wing to re-roll those troublesome even initiatives. I see myself running Zayne alot even if he's not the greatest thing since sliced bread.
If at first you don't succeed, spend a force point and roll again.
I've had an evil Idea... Karmic Mettle and Mettle stack, because if they do and you have a posible +12 on force rerolls...
What does Karmic Mettle do?

EDIT: Nevermind. Thank you Bloomilk!
I've had an evil Idea... Karmic Mettle and Mettle stack, because if they do and you have a possible +12 on force rerolls...

+8 not +12 regular mettle 4 + karmic mettle 4 = total awesome mettle 8
+8 not +12 regular mettle 4 + karmic mettle 4 = total awesome mettle 8

Karmic Luck-If your initiative check is an odd number, +4 to all this character's rolls for the round; if it is an ever number, -4 to all his rolls instead

So it's 4+4+/-4 = 4:12
Now I hope to pull him. I'm gonna do some evil... :evillaugh
lol, Zayne's hilarious! I'll be hoping I get him in one of my cases but given his rare status, I'll probably also be hoping I don't pull three of him...
Zaalbar seems a little over-costed. Double ranged is good, but not with +7, so you'll need to get him adjacent.

Zayne looks fun.
Zayne looks really interesting, not sure if I would pay 24 points for him though. Maybe just for fun.
With the MTB around, Zayne is screwed.
With the MTB around, Zayne is screwed.

Why?

"If your initiative is an odd number, +4 to all this character's rolls".

"Tactics Broker (Once per round, before initiative is determined, choose 1 other character in your squad. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. An opponent's initiative check result automatically becomes 1.)"

1 looks like an odd number to me.
Cortosis is cool... but makes absolutely no sense for this character. Lightsaber block perfectly sums up his gauntlets.
Why?

"If your initiative is an odd number, +4 to all this character's rolls".

"Tactics Broker (Once per round, before initiative is determined, choose 1 other character in your squad. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. An opponent's initiative check result automatically becomes 1.)"

1 looks like an odd number to me.

Gah, helps if I read! I of course assumed odd is worse luck then even. Reverse my statement, Zayne likes it if the opponent is fielding an MTB!
He'd only need a 14+ on lightsaber block to get a CG with his luck up. 6+ if he had mettle and MOTF.

Does that really work? Cortosis Gauntlet's roll is a modifiable number? If so, ouch.
Does that really work? Cortosis Gauntlet's roll is a modifiable number? If so, ouch.




But yes, like Emer says, a single Master Tactics Broker will ruin him attack-wise, won't it?

No. Odds are good for Zayne, which last I checked, 1 was an odd number.

Still debate over whether Mettle will work with the Gauntlets.
No. Odds are good for Zayne, which last I checked, 1 was an odd number.

Still debate over whether Mettle will work with the Gauntlets.

Taking Mettle out of the equation with the Gauntlets ... He still would only need to roll a +14 or higher on the block save to have the Gauntlets take effect, though, right? (with an odd-numbered init, that is)

sorry rules question ... but I think it flows with the discussion.
If at first you don't succeed, spend a force point and roll again.
Don't look at mettle, luck, or any other bonuses when checking for gauntlets. A roll of 18 is a roll of 18. Look at it this way . . . if he rolls a 19 on a block and gets the +4 from luck, does he not get to CG cause he rolled a 23? Definition says on a roll of 18, 19, or 20, which means exactly that

I'm trying to think of a precedent, but it escapes me.

edit: Oh yeah . . . if Han Scoundrel rolls a 16 and gets a +4 from mettle (or any character with mettle) this does not count as a critical hit as you did not *roll* a 20. Total attack does not equal the rolled attack, just as the total for a save does not equal the rolled save.
Don't look at mettle, luck, or any other bonuses when checking for gauntlets. A roll of 18 is a roll of 18. Look at it this way . . . if he rolls a 19 on a block and gets the +4 from luck, does he not get to CG cause he rolled a 23? Definition says on a roll of 18, 19, or 20, which means exactly that

I'm trying to think of a precedent, but it escapes me.

edit: Oh yeah . . . if Han Scoundrel rolls a 16 and gets a +4 from mettle (or any character with mettle) this does not count as a critical hit as you did not *roll* a 20. Total attack does not equal the rolled attack, just as the total for a save does not equal the rolled save.

And yet CG fails to mention a natural roll of a number on the card or glossary. As Sithborg pointed out, Shields is similarly worded (on a roll of 11). But we know 11+ or mettle works for the Shields save. I just don't see how Mettle and/or Luck would not work with MotF 2 re-rolling. Shaak Ti, JM can re-roll a Block with Mettle (if haunted by Obi-Wan). You are looking at a final result roll rather than a single die result. And as for criticals, like the example above, that is outlined as a natural 20 in the rules (unless you have Vapaad or Deadly Attack).
And yet CG fails to mention a natural roll of a number on the card or glossary. As Sithborg pointed out, Shields is similarly worded (on a roll of 11). But we know 11+ or mettle works for the Shields save. I just don't see how Mettle and/or Luck would not work with MotF 2 re-rolling. Shaak Ti, JM can re-roll a Block with Mettle (if haunted by Obi-Wan). You are looking at a final result roll rather than a single die result. And as for criticals, like the example above, that is outlined as a natural 20 in the rules (unless you have Vapaad or Deadly Attack).

edit: I take it back, as I just found an old post stating it works. I thought it worked like a crit or disintegration, but the rule says on a *save* of 18 or better. It's OP'd as hell, but I guess it works.

source: http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-1011788.html
Shield says "save of 11." As does block, and reflect, and deflect, etc etc. None of these abilities mention the word "roll."

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Shields via the RCTS says "each roll of 11" for Shields. It says nothing of a save.

Also mentions needing an 11 in the glossary (as if it was an absolute number).
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Shields via the RCTS says "each roll of 11" for Shields. It says nothing of a save.

Also mentions needing an 11 in the glossary (as if it was an absolute number).

Sure it does, read the glossary for Sheilds 2. Saves are exactly what it says. In this case its pretty clear that it expands upon a limited card space. That's the issue with Mettle and CG though, we just aren't positive if the word "result" is meant to be an expansion.
Sure it does, read the glossary for Sheilds 2. Saves are exactly what it says. In this case its pretty clear that it expands upon a limited card space. That's the issue with Mettle and CG though, we just aren't positive if the word "result" is meant to be an expansion.

Bill, I more meant the wording made Shields seem like you needed exactly an 11. Yet we know 11+ is fine.

EDIT: Nice find, willismaximus. If NN has already ruled in favor (of sorts), then it should be ok for Mettle re-rolls applying to CG.
edit: I take it back, as I just found an old post stating it works. I thought it worked like a crit or disintegration, but the rule says on a *save* of 18 or better. It's OP'd as hell, but I guess it works.

source: http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-1011788.html

Nice find ... Zayne could be a beatstick's worst nightmare if he ever gains access to MOTF2 in an OR squad with Nomi. (I guess in a lightside/darkside game he already does)
If at first you don't succeed, spend a force point and roll again.
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Shields via the RCTS says "each roll of 11" for Shields. It says nothing of a save.

Also mentions needing an 11 in the glossary (as if it was an absolute number).

I know I already conceded the argument . . . however, for the record, the Rule Book states:

Shields 2: When this character would take damage from any source, make 2 saves, each needing 11 to succeed. For each successful save, reduce the damage dealt by 10 points. Bodyguards 1st, blah blah . . . but this where I was getting my reasoning.

But again, moot point, cause apparently mettle and, vicariously, Karmic Luck both work towards CG . . . which is insane.
But again, moot point, cause apparently mettle and, vicariously, Karmic Luck both work towards CG . . . which is insane.

Which makes me very happy. Zayne continues to rise on my want list. Thanks willismaximus :D . I was looking for a precedent and you were able to find one.
But again, moot point, cause apparently mettle and, vicariously, Karmic Luck both work towards CG . . . which is insane.

I would stop short of calling it solved just yet. I would guess NN didn't take that particular question to Rob, as it dealt with only one extremely rare set of events to occur at all. I have asked the question again in the Rules forum, and NN has taken it back to Rob.

Personally, I've got no real issue if it works, but I am not sure his intent was to allow the CGs to go off with a block save of 6. So hold off on this until we get the official word back from the designer on this one.
I would stop short of calling it solved just yet. I would guess NN didn't take that particular question to Rob, as it dealt with only one extremely rare set of events to occur at all. I have asked the question again in the Rules forum, and NN has taken it back to Rob.

Personally, I've got no real issue if it works, but I am not sure his intent was to allow the CGs to go off with a block save of 6. So hold off on this until we get the official word back from the designer on this one.

I don't see the issue here, Bill. Zayne is the one piece that would be able to pull off this feat (in the current game). While the older thread did pertain to a rather extreme series of events, it should still be relevant. A precedent has been set. Could Rob rule against it? Of course he could. Yet there is no abuse when one figure has access to such a combo. And if you are worried about other characters receiving Karmic Luck/and or Mettle to go along with CG, that's highly unlikely. It currently takes a strange twist of Betrayal for Imperial CG pieces to receive Mettle at all. As a more prominent character in the EU, I see no problem giving Zayne a slight edge in the game (if you can call it that).
It's only one piece for right now, but the decision made here will affect future pieces should they have access to this combo. It may never come up again, or maybe someday Imperial Knights will get access to mettle. It's hard to say how significant a ruling will be based on how many figs it *currently* affects.

It wouldn't be the 1st time a ruling is overturned either . . . such as Kota and the troop cart.
So if we run Zayne with the New Malak.....when you even, he still has a +7 attack, whereas if you roll odd, then he has +11


Unless of course the two dont stack, then my hopes and dreams are shattered! (not really, but it could be cool to run Zayne in a sith squad)


Or really break continuity, and have Zayne be in a mando squad with Ultimate....and now look how tricked out he gets! I cant wait to try him out.

As for big Z...he is the fringe chewie, and could be interesting paired in the right squad.
You do realize that you have to have MotF 2 AND mettle to get the benefit for CG, right? IK's will almost certainly never get both, so...

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGS1AL.png) Sig by zpikduM.

You do realize that you have to have MotF 2 AND mettle to get the benefit for CG, right? IK's will almost certainly never get both, so...

Not incredibly difficult to pull off with Qui-Gon Jinn, JM or a Rebel Obi-Wan. Thus the heated debate around Zayne.
Sign In to post comments