New Duel Lands Revealed + CRAZY RULES CHANGES

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Discuss for Type 2

Flavor/clarity changes:

The in play zone will be the "battlefield"
The removed-from-game zone will be "exile"
At end of turn will be "At the beginning of the end step"

Additional rule changes:

Mulligans will be simultaneous
Mana pools empty after every step and phase
No more Mana Burn

"As soon as damage is assigned in the combat damage step, it is dealt. There is no time to cast spells and activate abilities in between; the last time to do so prior to damage being dealt is during the declare blockers step."

"Creatures dealt damage by a source with deathtouch will be destroyed as a state-based effect at the same time lethal damage would kill them. As a side effect, multiple instances of deathtouch will no longer be cumulative."

"Lifelink, like deathtouch, is turning into a static ability. If a source with lifelink deals damage, its controller gains that much life as that damage is being dealt. As a side effect, multiple instances of lifelink are no longer cumulative."

I recommend reading the article THOROUGHLY to get a handle on all the new rules changes. Some of them are really complex.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/42a
Interesting. It encourages basics as it's 'draw back'. I'm not over all thrilled with it, but it's a lot better than what I was afraid of.

Proof?
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Apparently Magic is getting a HUGE makeover after M10.

It's not just silly flavor changes. They're making huge rules alterations. So make sure you are fully aware of all that's going on before entering the next competitive event after M10's release.
Interesting. It encourages basics as it's 'draw back'. I'm not over all thrilled with it, but it's a lot better than what I was afraid of.

Proof?

Sorry. Link provided in the OP. :D
The beginning of the end step sounds a bit clunky, but I know why they're doing it.

The damage thing is a really poor idea, I think. It basically makes cards like Mogg Fanatic worthless. Nice one Wizards, you just killed half of the worthwhile utility creatures ever printed.

The lifelink thing I think was unnecessary; same with deathtouch. The fact that they were triggered abilities didn't confuse anyone who plays at tournament level, and for casual play the distinction is rarely that important. It's not a huge change though.

I am really unimpressed with the new combat damage system.
Yeah Mogg Fanatic is not as good as it was meant to be That is super lame.
Until I read the artical, I had been hoping for a re-print of Mogg Fantastic. Now, I hope the little prick never sees the light of day again.

Thanks Wizards, you killed my favorite creature ever.

However, I will keep playing magic because they're giving me
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1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
All the combat-related changes are just awful. RIP Momentary Blink. Weren't you like everyone's favorite common?
Current decks: Type II: B/R Vampires Extended: Modern: U/G Scapeshift 1.5: Ichorid, Elf Combo
I am hoping that there will be more nonbasic lands in the future that feature the basic land types on them to turn these new duel lands on.

As it is now, these new duels don't like being played in decks running more than 2 colors.
I am hoping that there will be more nonbasic lands in the future that feature the basic land types on them to turn these new duel lands on.

As it is now, these new duels don't like being played in decks running more than 2 colors.

a shard deck, a main with splashes will be fine

uBr gets borderposts, shardlands and the new duals, all with the benifit of only having to run swamps
Josh "war" Monks. Team Jace, Seattle
In fact, I think the combat change they've made is the worst change to MtG in its entire history; it does NOTHING but close out useful design space, and not only that, but retroactively kill anything that ever sat in that designspace before.

Fulminator Mage is now a worse Stone Rain, for instance. They can't make anymore useful sac-abilities. Limited has been made much more limited, as you can't put damage on the stack and bounce your creature.
In fact, I think the combat change they've made is the worst change to MtG in its entire history; it does NOTHING but close out useful design space, and not only that, but retroactively kill anything that ever sat in that designspace before.

Fulminator Mage is now a worse Stone Rain, for instance. They can't make anymore useful sac-abilities. Limited has been made much more limited, as you can't put damage on the stack and bounce your creature.
the land matches one i mocked up, which is neat

the other changes... not so neat. uh oh
Everything is good except... wow the combat change. So awful.
Manamorphose lets you play with 56 card decks now.
They are making the game stupid, now it makes all aggro players the same pilots, no tricks that's horrible. Why don't we just play yugioh?

Wow even worse the attacker doesn't even get to assign combat damage as wanted, the defending player gets to pick in what order so you so you have a 3/3 attacking, they have a 0/4 and a 20/1, they pick the 0/4 first, then the 20/1. The 3/3 assigns three damage to the 0/4 and the 20/1 does lethal damage to the 3/3. RETARDED.
Wow even worse the attacker doesn't even get to assign combat damage as wanted, the defending player gets to pick in what order so you so you have a 3/3 attacking, they have a 0/4 and a 20/1, they pick the 0/4 first, then the 20/1. The 3/3 assigns three damage to the 0/4 and the 20/1 does lethal damage to the 3/3. RETARDED.

Uh, no. lol.
Uh, no. lol.

Am I wrong? Please tell me I'm wrong before I sell my magic collection.
I recommend reading the article THOROUGHLY

-----------------.^.----------------
They are making the game stupid, now it makes all aggro players the same pilots, no tricks that's horrible. Why don't we just play yugioh?

You first. Most of the changes are pretty easy to grapple with. you can still declare something blocked with mogg fanatic and sacrifice it as a fast effect to nuke something during the declare blockers step. you just can't do it after damage has been put on the stack, which is only slightly less of an advantage.

Wow even worse the attacker doesn't even get to assign combat damage as wanted, the defending player gets to pick in what order so you so you have a 3/3 attacking, they have a 0/4 and a 20/1, they pick the 0/4 first, then the 20/1. The 3/3 assigns three damage to the 0/4 and the 20/1 does lethal damage to the 3/3. RETARDED.

No, you read that last part wrong, buddy. The attacking player lines up the blockers however they choose. then he goes about assigning lethal damage after the declare blockers fast effects portion is over, blowing up as much of the line if he can. Once you move to dealing combat damage, you know exactly how much it will take to destroy creatures, tricks need to be played before end of blockers step.

Now, on to my opinions about the rules. Firstly... and correct me if I'm wrong... when was the last time manaburn from anything other a pain land was relevant in a high level match other than "before you kill me, I'll kill me" bit of endgame humor?

I like the fact Finest Hour will be able to run off forests,plains and dual lands, however it makes the early turns a little more complicated to engineer right, and the best time to drop a dual seems to be turn 3... but a lot of that remains to be seen.

Also, Path to Exile is proving to be more of a risky play, as the free basic land should allow most players to fix into the colors they need now.

A big thumbs up for allowing deathtouch to break this rule and still let you ping creatures for 1 and lethal damage if the need arises

Another thumbs up from me is the fact that Lifelink now does what players wanted lifelink to do, save lives, especially mine :D .


Finally, for all the people, like buddy, whining about the changes, there's this blurb from the article.

Players decried that the end was nigh and the game would never recover. But most of us calmed down and learned the changes, and now they're second nature to us.[/q]

Sums it up quite nicely. In a word... CHILL. It's still magic
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Oops
75932913 wrote:
57689138 wrote:
I just realized how large a pain in the ass it's going to be to break down regionals like this
but look on the bright side, [b]Ding Dong jund is dead[b], it's not the boogyman anymore XD

Razorgore
61325265 wrote:
57689138 wrote:
Near Death Experience?
Gideon is not impressed by your triple white, incredibly difficult-to-manlipulate jank card.
Poor Niche
57860688 wrote:
MaRo keeps stabbing me in the face with cards like Phyrexian Rebirth. It's a black card.. with black art... in a white layer with white costs. Up yours, design team.
Cryptic Command can go munch on a bowl of my nuts
Manamorphose lets you play with 56 card decks now.

Heh.
So attackers still get to pick who they deal damage to, but they have to deal lethal damage to the first creature before moving on to the next?

And btw the only thing I don't is making the game easier/more simple-minded. Sure it was confusing at first for me, but guess what I did, read what lifelink/deathtouch ... etc was. What is so hard about the play/into play?

All there saying is we would like more middle schoolers to ask there parents for money to buy there cards.
All there saying is we would like more middle schoolers to ask there parents for money to buy there cards.

...
Do you hear that?

no, not that a company's trying to make more money in a recession, listen...

That's all of our constructed ratings going OM NOM NOM NOM with all the "middle schoolers" getting into magic that think they're awesome...

How is this bad again? The sharks will eat the fishies and nature will go on as per usual.

Evolve
scrubnextdoor blog
Notable Stuffs
Champion of Niv's 1st Block Constructed Tournament
1000 posts & !-year anniversary 2/17/10 BOOYAH

Siggables
Neruka's Boyfriend
Kor Firewalker is SO HOT. He is the fire in my pants. I want his firewalking babies.

Oops
75932913 wrote:
57689138 wrote:
I just realized how large a pain in the ass it's going to be to break down regionals like this
but look on the bright side, [b]Ding Dong jund is dead[b], it's not the boogyman anymore XD

Razorgore
61325265 wrote:
57689138 wrote:
Near Death Experience?
Gideon is not impressed by your triple white, incredibly difficult-to-manlipulate jank card.
Poor Niche
57860688 wrote:
MaRo keeps stabbing me in the face with cards like Phyrexian Rebirth. It's a black card.. with black art... in a white layer with white costs. Up yours, design team.
Cryptic Command can go munch on a bowl of my nuts
...
Do you hear that?

no, not that a company's trying to make more money in a recession, listen...

That's all of our constructed ratings going OM NOM NOM NOM with all the "middle schoolers" getting into magic that think they're awesome...

How is this bad again? The sharks will eat the fishies and nature will go on as per usual.

Evolve

We'll also take their lunch money and buy booster packs with them!
I am Blue/White
I am Blue/White
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IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/features/42a_02o4sozpie_EN.jpg)

Discuss for Type 2

Flavor/clarity changes:

The in play zone will be the "battlefield"
The removed-from-game zone will be "exile"
At end of turn will be "At the beginning of the end step"

Additional rule changes:

Mulligans will be simultaneous
Mana pools empty after every step and phase
No more Mana Burn

"As soon as damage is assigned in the combat damage step, it is dealt. There is no time to cast spells and activate abilities in between; the last time to do so prior to damage being dealt is during the declare blockers step."

"Creatures dealt damage by a source with deathtouch will be destroyed as a state-based effect at the same time lethal damage would kill them. As a side effect, multiple instances of deathtouch will no longer be cumulative."

"Lifelink, like deathtouch, is turning into a static ability. If a source with lifelink deals damage, its controller gains that much life as that damage is being dealt. As a side effect, multiple instances of lifelink are no longer cumulative."

I recommend reading the article THOROUGHLY to get a handle on all the new rules changes. Some of them are really complex.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/42a

Actually the beginning of the end of turn step thing is for cards like Ball Lightning, Hellspark Elemental and so fourth. The end of turn on Putrid Leech and Giant Growth remains the same that it stays until you end your turn.

Overall I think most of the new rulings are pretty good and will improve the game for the better, but there is one thing that bothers me. Will there still be double lifelink or not?
Errr I think the statement regarding middle schoolers is pretty irrelevant. Bringing in younger players is a good thing and not because they're somehow "worse" at Magic than older players. It diversifies the group of people playing the game.

However, the loss of complexity in the game brought about the combat-damage rule change FAILS to reward better players, and that's what's horrible about it. If you know more about the game and its rules, you OUGHT to be better at the game. It's all part of the learning process.
Actually the beginning of the end of turn step thing is for cards like Ball Lightning, Hellspark Elemental and so fourth. The end of turn on Putrid Leech and Giant Growth remains the same that it stays until you end your turn.

Overall I think most of the new rulings are pretty good and will improve the game for the better, but there is one thing that bothers me. Will there still be double lifelink or not?

No. No more double lifelink.
No. No more double lifelink.

However, the loss of complexity in the game brought about the combat-damage rule change FAILS to reward better players, and that's what's horrible about it. If you know more about the game and its rules, you OUGHT to be better at the game. It's all part of the learning process.

That's what I meant.
That's what I meant.

Right on, dude
Fulminator Mage is now a worse Stone Rain, for instance.

Actually it can still sac itself after blocking or being blocked, it just won't deal the damage.
The thing about utility creatures with sac effects is that they lose out on one fundamental thing.

Attacking into a x/2 with a Mogg Fanatic will no longer be the same play. You won't be able to push through early damage with a Fanatic by threatening to kill off the opponent's 2- or 3-drop.

Likewise, attacking into an x/2 with a Fulminator Mage is also a very different play. You can no longer threaten with a 2-for-1, and thus push through.

Thus, creatures with utility sac effects become less aggressive, which especially hurts red ones such as the above mentioned examples.

I personally dislikes this rules change. And it gets worse when I am being prevented from making the optimal play because I can't divide damage as I choose.

Manaburn has been highly debated, and I still don't like it, but I don't have anything to offer that debate that hasn't been said one bazillion times, except that I hate the removal of the strategic layers that would otherwise occur when you would have to take manaburn to play a card (filterlands, bouncelands, rituals and so on).

They did, however, give us a bunch of sweet previews at the same time as these changes. "Sorry I burned down your village. Here's some gold."
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I'm fine with changes minus the ones made to the combat step. I don't even understand why these changes were made. I thought playing with the stack was something of a reward for experienced players. I'll have to see how it changes the environment.
a shard deck, a main with splashes will be fine

uBr gets borderposts, shardlands and the new duals, all with the benifit of only having to run swamps

But a bant deck that requires a lot of mana fixing will have issues using these new Duals. Most of the more competive bant decks run 16 or more none basic lands. So all these new duals do is slow them down and make it harder for them to fix their mana. They will also make it harder for them to have a 1st turn play.

Psy
The combat step changes just make it so the good players make mistakes against people who just learned to play. They made it so beginners > us. I like strategy, not Split-Second.

Angry_____Okay______Happy
<-1---------5------------10->

I'm at 1.
Think I'm at 2.

I actually don't mind the manaburn thing now that they changed the emptying of manapools, but it still seems a bit odd. Same goes with the flavour changes - I do feel "battlefield" makes everything sounds so clunky.

However, I definatly think they messed up with the combat step. Not only did they destroy one of my favourite creatures, mogg fanatic, they also removed A LOT of tricks that experienced players as myself have spent time learning.
Time spent on practice -> Advantage. That sounds like it applies in the rest of the world, why not in magic?
Also, being a fairly new player, I can remember my reaction to learning that damage uses the stack (or well, I didn't call it that at the time):
"You can actually let it deal damage and then return it"
- "Oh! That's nice"

I'm really disappointed by the new lands not having basic land-types. I mean, wtf?!

On a completly other note...why are they making changes to support the same people that complain the most about magic because it doesn't fit their niché-kitchen table games? Tournament players should be the ones who were rewarded if you ask me.
I think I'm at 3-4. Admittedly, I don't like the changes, but I do like the possibility it will make the game more accessible to players. I do recall some trouble figuring out the damage on the stack for myself and many times talking to new players about what I meant "while damage is on the stack" and using an analogy involving hand grenades ...
I'd say I'm at 5, I don't mind the rule changes but I'm not excited over them either. The loss of lifelink triggering multiple times makes me somewhat sad. No more swing to gain 15 life per turn, but thats countered by lifelink being able to save my ass when i'm at 1 life.

I hate the new duals though. I'm at -7 when I see them.
Rules Advisor May my old sig rest in peace. I am White/Green
I'm really disappointed by the new lands not having basic land-types. I mean, wtf?!

QFT



Not that I'm particularly surprised or disappointed. But they would've been awesome if that were the case.
Not that I'm particularly surprised or disappointed. But they would've been awesome if that were the case.

+1

With the basic land types I probably would have liked them.
Rules Advisor May my old sig rest in peace. I am White/Green
Yeah, they don't work with themselves. Most duals don't, like Darkwater Catacombs and Sunken Ruins, you must have a different land to take advantage of them. By the way, these obsolete lands like Salt Marsh, if others didn't notice. At least they do that!

By the way, I like the new lands, I just want a Blue-Red one
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