UPDATE: 1/24/2011Hope I'm not treading on any advertising rules here, but, after eight long years of operation, TDC is at long last closing shop for the foreseeable future...to reopen where I've been hired over at Tcgplayer's standard forums.I wouldn't rule out ever returning here, but if folks are looking for some clinic-advice from me, that's where you can find it until further notice. Take care guys!Tapatim's Type 2 Deck Clinic - Est. 2003
Hello, everyone. This is a deck clinic where you can post your decklists for advice from deck doctors and other users. First established in 2003 by the illustrious Tapatim, I've been handling the day to day operation since a few months after he founded it and kept the torch burning ever since. We welcome rogues, archetypes, random piles of cards, budget concerns, new set updates: anything which you could use a hand on.
We're always looking for new volunteers to become deck doctors, so if you're interested, don't hesitate to jump in and/or drop me a line about signing on.
A scattered few of you may also know me as a feature writer at brainburst/tcgplayer (Greg McCleery), or as Azrael from Mtgsalvation. I've been playing continuously since 1995, with a tendency to find homes for neglected orphans like Stonehewer Giant, Pillory of the Sleepless, Hurricane, Tower Above, and Genju of the Fields. I've also accomplished a little on the PTQ and PT circuits. Building and tweaking decks is what I enjoy most about the game, so I'm always happy to wrack my brain to help you find worthwhile advice and collaborate on ideas.
Current Deck Doctors: WxBackup/Retired Docs- John Mathias, Ner'Zuhl Lord of Darkness/Illidan Stormage, Tapatim, Weapon X, Xukko the Unholy, Broken Wings, Universal Snip, WrathofChris, Volrath Outside the Door, Capashen Dawn, Crimson Lancer, Nolaw, Pandman64, Vodka7up, Antilles, MagicMaster, Krowzy, Clam I Am, Jenius, Oracle VIII, Green Mycon, Doodlebird, Kavu Lancer, and many others.
decklist as follows is currently 23w 9L, im not sure if this is good or bad.
It is kinda budget- no figures or demigods or thoughtsiezes and the like for me =-/.
4 lightning bolt
4 flame javelin
4 volcanic fallout
4 hellspark elemental
4 goblin assault
2 magma spray
1 hell's thunder
2 chandra nalaar
5 trilands (r/b)
1 veinfire borderpost
1 gutteral response
I welcome any advice or suggestions. The deck seems to have the hardest time with kith or elfball (STRICTLY on the merit of mark of asylum and Forgetender being so brutal.)
It seems to do well vs faries by making bitterblossum kill them often, and against controlish decks by overrunning them with the tokens. Baneslayer and larks can be nasty first game, but g2 sb with deathmarks and the other 2 magma sprays pretty much end that problem.
I wish there were more RFG effects i could add, as finks/glenmage/unearthing critters, makeshift, are still seeing alot of play.
The sideboard does not feel perfect either. and i'm still on the fence about chandra (originally i had 3 hell's thunder but was swayed by the point of runed halo being able to cut me off at the knees without more diveristy in my threats.
Link to my original post: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Please and thank you =)
here is my deck for critique
and if you know or anyone know can you tell me how i can get my signature back?
also the sideboard could use some help. i'd like to keep the island in though and the regenerating guys if possible, if not then oh well.
I know about sigs. When viewing a thread (like this one) look in the top left-hand corner of the page. There's a button called Preferences. In there, you have the option to make a sig.
I would be glad to help critique decks if you need people.
decklist as follows is currently 23w 9L, im not sure if this is good or bad. It is kinda budget- no figures or demigods or thoughtsiezes and the like for me =-/.
No problem, we can work with that. If we had access to a little cash, I'd definitely opt for an Auntie's Hovel package and work in Boggart Ram Gang, Sign in Blood, possibly even Graveborn Muse. As is, a little more challenging.
First time I looked at the list, I wanted to cut from the bottom. Magma Spray, Chandra, Hell's Thunder, Banefire, Goblin Assault. But there's good reasoning behind small numbers of each. You need Spray to RFG, Chandra gives you late-game potential, as does Thunder and Banefire. And Goblin Assault is your finishing power; sorely needed without Demigod around. But, perhaps not as consistent as it needs to be.
So. That being the case, which slots can wiggle?
We get a fair amount of long-game potential thanks to Anathemancer; especially if we bump up to 22 land for consistency. That may solve some long-term damage problems, if we can make sure you wipe the board well.
Dragonskull Summit should be a good investment for you. We're working on a budget here, but getting at least a couple of those should help you over the long haul.
I think the Goblin Assault has to go. Most decks in the format should be able to deal with it fairly easily. Between Maelstrom Pulse, Esper Charm, and blockers, I suspect it's going to be too inconsistent. And 20 three drops is too many.
If we weren't so close to the rotation, I'd say get ahold of some Sygg, River Cutthroat. Hmm.
Perhaps Colfenor's Plans *strokes chin* One-shot Necro, without the pain. It'd be better still if we could find a way to sac it, but perhaps if you simply run multiples of it, or alternative card-drawing sources, or unearth cards... Ah ha! Hell's Thunder, you may actually do us some good now.
The major risk of Plans is that after your 7 card burst, you run out of gas. But with B/R, the game shouldn't last all that long anyways. 7 extra cards will usually be enough to finish them if you time it correctly, and adding unearth cards into the mix only increases your staying power. Also, you can go Plans into Plans from time to time, with 4 in the deck. Better still, once it resolves there's not much they can do about it. Cruel Ultimatum can't make you discard your plan-cards. If they blow it up or bounce it, you're thrilled. That may be some very, very interesting tech for you.
Also, drawing seven cards at once ought to give you a good shot at drawing enough lands to bring back Anathemancers for a 2nd round of action, or make Banefire lethal.
And if Kithkin is a problem, Ignite Disorder and Chaotic Backlash should definitely help.
3 magma spray
3 Hell's Thunder
4 Colfenor's Plans
3 Dragonskull Summit (or veinfire borderposts, in the meantime)
1 veinfire borderpost (or D. Summit)
4 Ignite Disorder
2 Chaotic Backlash
I'd give that a shot. The major problem with B/R is being able to refuel and avoid running out of gas. With 4 Plans and a good, solid, 12-card unearth package, you have a good chance of gaining back-breaking card advantage and finishing your opponents before you run out of cards again.
just got done with a daily event 4 round. lost 1st to kithin, my deck matchup. My sb was 75% kith hate, and i STILL got totally run into the dirt by that matchup. (4deathmark3doomblade 3 infest!!!) and i STILL lost.
BFT, cloudgoats, and honor of the pure negating my sweepers.. i just don't see a way r/b can beat kith ever, period, sb or no.
next 2 matches, faries, u/b varient, won in 2.
baneslayer control, i drew double blightning in match 1, no contest. I magma sprayed a newly cast glen mage. twice. Game over.
my final match for 6 packs (and my first actual prize win potentially) was against u/b faries again.
First match i with damage to face, and hellsparks.
2 nd match i saw a 2nd turn bitterblossums and drew no fallout. ever.
match 3? good mana, good cards, turn 3 bb, and again, not one. fhajshkjasd fallout. 3 games, and not one fallout.
I had the games if not for the evil cards. Both game 2 and 3, i had the fae player severely burned, and flame javed to response to mistbinds a few times.
the colfers plans is an interesting idea. the deck is supposed to be winning turn 8 or so anyhow.
gobo assault is getting removed alot. Esper charms, pridemages, acidic slimes, one oring... but i think like bitterblossums, its a remove this or die card.
I'm going to go bash my head into a street lamp now untill the pain subsides.
Am I correct in thinking that this is U/B Zombies? Because if so, your manabase looks a little shaky. A playset of Drowned Catacombs would be nice for it, if you can afford them. I would remove the Infectious Horror's and put them in the SB. They really are only going to be useful in Multiplayer, because in duel 2 life doesn't really matter. And they also get killed by a ton of removal spells. I also don't really like Fatestitcher in there. He doesn't really seem to fit, as untapping one creature and tapping another doesn't seem like a good option.
Maybe some counterspells to be put in? If you're looking for this to be legal after the rotation, Countersquall could be nice.
Also, because they're commons, Moonglove Changeling would be a splendid addition. Getting all the benefits from your pumpers, as well as being able to gain deathtouch is nice.
Cairn Wanderer is amazingly cheap, gains a ton of abilities and is a fatty, a possible addition.
Mothdust Changeling is really nice, gaining flying by tapping a creature is a bonus if it gets really big from Death Baron's and the like.
Also, because I didn't notice it previously, you have no Nameless Inversion! A kill spell that counts as a zombie? I like it!
Also, possibly Door of Destinies or Coat of Arms?
Link to my original post: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...Please and thank you =)
Hmm. I'll assume we're going this way just for the sheer joy of untargetable dudes; because in terms of efficiency, we could do much better than a team that rolls over to Volcanic Fallout/Pyroclasm (or more efficient enemy attackers!), as you mentioned.
If we wanted to shore that weakness up pre-rotation, I'd say Burrenton Forge-tender, but you also mentioned you wanted to keep this post-rotation.
So. In that case, let's see what kind of room we can clear:
1. We need to cut the life-gain, the Sylvan Bounty. Pure lifegain is excellent in multi-player, but very poor in 1v1 formats.
2. Rampant Growth-If we want your Gifts of the Gargantuan package to pay off, and if we want you to have enough action spells in your deck to actually win, we'll need to change this into something that affects the board, such as Borderland Ranger.
3. Elvish Visionary's 1/1 body is pretty unimpressive. You may not have a lot of early-game options, but just about anything's better than that. Deadly Recluse, if we simply must.
4. Overrun is good. But it's not good here. Your game-plan to make it work is to wait until you cast a 7 mana spell: a tough opponent will often kill you before that happens, or counter it. You'll want something that you can cast consistently to make sure you stay alive long enough to play Behemoth.
5. Howl of the Night Pack- 7 casting costs spells in aggro decks is highly unusual, and usually a bad idea. Here, we've got 8, and one of them is pretty easily answered by Volcanic Fallout and by Maelstrom Pulse. Let's cut that number in half instead, down to just 4, and keep your ridiculous untargetable guy. And that way, we can...
6. Now that we've cleared some space, let's add that support color. But let's not mess around with just G/R ; the removal's not good enough. You need to be able to stop Baneslayer Angels from simply raping you; and maybe give you some hand disruption to knock out opponents' answers to BIG SHROUD GUY. That pushes us towards black. Plus, with the extra removal, you can help your Algae grow. Hmm. It's a shame Shriekmaw will be rotating...that would have been good for you.
7. If we're going black, we're cutting Gifts of the Gargantuan for something better.
8. Other Additions: Putrid Leech. One of the best combat guys in the format. And with most of the team slacking in the combat department, you could definitely use him.
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Mist Leopard
4x Algae Gharial
4x Kalonian Behemoth
4x Borderland Ranger
4x Putrid Leech
2x Garruk, Wildspeaker
Spells (10):4x Doomblade4x DuressLand (24):8x Swamp12x Forest4x Terramorphic Expanse
Well, blow me down; you are one amazing guy, Wx. Still running this place years later?? I am impressed!I started up again about three weeks ago or so, so I have very little knowledge of the current format (not that it matters, since it's rotating); however, after the next set drops and things even out a bit, we'll see if I can't be of some help again, alright?
Yeah, I'm still stuck here running this shtick. A few more years, and I figure I'll be able to start charging.
Good to see you though, long time. I'd love to have some help again.
This is wonderfully retro, I'm gonna post a list and see what happens (also so there are lists in this thread).So from the necromancied Ghost Dad thread, Esper Dad.BWu controll, with Stoneforge Mystic package adding card draw and letting subpar beaters trade with mostly anything.Lands8 Swamps3 Plains4 Arcane Sanctum3 Creeping Tar Pit4 Marsh FlatsCreatures2 Baneslayer Angel4 Bloodghast4 Fleshbag Marauder3 Gatekeeper of Malikar3 Rotting Rats1 Stoneforge Mystic4 Tidehollow ScullerSpells1 Basilsk Collar3 Disfigure3 Esper Charm1 Mask of Riddles3 Path to Exile3 Smother3 Zealous PersecutionSB4 Celestial Purge4 Deathmark4 Duress3 Oblivion RingNotes:As you can tell the SB is pretty much a placeholder for now, if the Mystic package gets popular Hammer of Ruin might go in there. Need to cut something for another Mystic as well.As for how it plays, it gets some great draws more of then not, but it'll peeter out from time to time making me think it's not consistant enough to be competitive. There's a long list of things that I think should be in here but there's no room.Sign in Blood or Grim Discovery to replace Esper Charm could go a long way. Also this deck really hates ramping people with Path, but maindeck answers to Baneslayer are pretty important, so switching to maindeck rings and letting Smother and Disfigure work on the early threats seems like a good idea.Any thoughts.
Well it seems I finally found what I need, a Deck Doctor. Well Dr. Wx I have been trying to craft a Grixis Control deck and here are the results of my time.
4x Pilgrim's Eye
2x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1x Wrexial, the Risen Deep
1x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
2x Chandra Nalaar
4x Cruel Ultimatum
4x Treasure Hunt
2x Doom Blade
3x Double Negative
1x Hideous End
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Mindbreak Trap
2x Tomb Hex
3x Akoum Refuge
4x Crumbling Necropolis
2x Creeping Tar Pit
3x Halimar Depths
1x Wrexial the Deep Risen
2x Calcite Snapper
3x Searing Blaze
3x Volcanic Fallout
2x Bojuka Bog
In 2 slots on the sideboard I have been debating Magosi, the Waterveil and Calcite Snapper back and forth. Also I can hear top players writhing in their graves as they see creatures without shroud in my deck. However Pilgrim's Eye makes sure i hit my land drops and Wrexial can handle most burn and is Black allowing it to resist a good deal of creature removal.P.S. I am not rich so even though I know the M10 duals would be much better in my deck than my current duals I simply can't afford them. Also I can't afford these new cards such as Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Sorry for the budget inconvenience.
Suggested List:23 Lands8 Swamps3 Plains4 Arcane Sanctum4 Marsh Flats4 Terramorphic Expanse25 Creatures 2 Baneslayer Angel4 Bloodghast3 Stoneforge Mystic4 Vampire Hexmage4 Gatekeeper of Malikar4 Vampire Nighthawk4 Emeria Angel12 Spells 3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant2 Basilisk Collar1 Mask of Riddles3 Path to Exile3 Journey to NowhereSB4 Celestial Purge3 Marsh Casualties 4 Luminarch Ascension (You like beating control, right?)4 Oblivion RingThat's the best shot I can take for tonight. LMK what you think so far.
Suggested List:23 Lands8 Swamps3 Plains4 Arcane Sanctum4 Marsh Flats4 Terramorphic Expanse25 Creatures 2 Baneslayer Angel4 Bloodghast3 Stoneforge Mystic4 Vampire Hexmage4 Gatekeeper of Malikar4 Vampire Nighthawk4 Emeria Angel12 Spells 3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant2 Basilisk Collar1 Mask of Riddles3 Path to Exile3 Journey to NowhereSB4 Celestial Purge3 Marsh Casualties 4 Luminarch Ascension (You like beating control, right?)4 Oblivion RingThat's the best shot I can take for tonight. LMK what you think so far.What I can see from here, is with the Emeria and Elspeh I've just added a bunch of spells that have WW into a deck that wants to cast gatekeeper. Also no Sign in Blood which is what I had in here orignally, but Esper Charms went in alongside the Mask. I can see Elseph in here, but I think that would be in order to cut Baneslayer (and thus the cruve), in fact I like here more then the other 4 drop option Persicutor.I think you've fallen into the Sculler trap, a lot of people missplay him, and seeing him played that way makes him seem really, really bad. His job isn't to eat removal, but to eat tempo. Stealing their next drop then forcing removal onto him is a lot stronger play then trying to protect guys.Your list plays a lot slower, and stops beeing aggro-controll and becomes midrangey, I should either cram Nocturns into that deck or green for Pulse and Behemoth Sledge.
Well it seems I finally found what I need, a Deck Doctor. Well Dr. Wx I have been trying to craft a Grixis Control deck and here are the results of my time.Grixis Control Main DeckCreatures: 74x Pilgrim's Eye2x Sphinx of Jwar Isle1x Wrexial, the Risen Deep Planeswalkers: 31x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker2x Chandra Nalaar Sorceries: 124x Cruel Ultimatum4x Ponder4x Treasure Hunt Instants: 152x Doom Blade3x Double Negative1x Hideous End4x Lightning Bolt1x Mindbreak Trap2x Terminate2x Tomb Hex Artifacts: 0 Lands: 233x Akoum Refuge4x Crumbling Necropolis2x Creeping Tar Pit3x Halimar Depths5x Island3x Mountain3x Swamp Sideboard: 15Creatures: 31x Wrexial the Deep Risen2x Calcite Snapper Sorceries: 22x Blightning Instants: 82x Flashfreeze3x Searing Blaze3x Volcanic Fallout Lands: 22x Bojuka BogIn 2 slots on the sideboard I have been debating Magosi, the Waterveil and Calcite Snapper back and forth. Also I can hear top players writhing in their graves as they see creatures without shroud in my deck. However Pilgrim's Eye makes sure i hit my land drops and Wrexial can handle most burn and is Black allowing it to resist a good deal of creature removal.P.S. I am not rich so even though I know the M10 duals would be much better in my deck than my current duals I simply can't afford them. Also I can't afford these new cards such as Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Sorry for the budget inconvenience.
3x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1x Obelisk of Alara
3x Chandra Nalaar
3x Earthquake3x Mind Spring
Instants: 164x Flashfreeze 2x Burst Lightning
2x Double Negative
2x Exotic Orchard
Sideboard:2 Mind Control (Random Ionas, Thornlings, etc.)3 Pithing Needle (Pesky enemy planeswalkers, Luminarch Ascension, etc.)3 Deathmark2 Swerve (Take that, Mind Sludge!)2 Haunting Echoes (Control)3 Negate
20 creatures4 goblin guide4 plated geopede2 goblin bushwhacker4 steppe linx1 kor skyfisher2 stoneforge mystic3 ranger of eos13 removal spells4 lightning bolt3 burst lightning2 earthquake4 path to exile3 equipment2 adventure gear1 basilisk collar24 land4 arid mesa4 scalding tarn1 marsh flats ( card stores were sold out sadly)4 teramorphic expsance)5 mountain6 plainsmake moar power!!!!!!!!!!!!! (sideboard)was thinking ajani vengent might do good here.
Current deck list looks something like this Land 19 Forest 4 Terramorphic Expanse Critters 4 Llanowar Elves 4 Joraga Treespeaker 4 Garruk's Packleader 4 Rampaging Baloths 3 Mold Shambler 2 Baloth Woodcrasher Spells 4 Harrow 4 Explore 3 Khalni Heart Expedition 2 Gelatinous Genesis 3 Overwhelming Stampede Sideboard 4 Autumn's Veil 4 Plummet 4 Naturalize 3 Acidic Slime Not sure here, maybe Gravity Well instead or Wolfbriar Elemental Possible tweaks - Garruk's Companion in for Llanowar Elves, Wolfbriar Elemental in for Gelatinous Genesis. Possibly replace harrow with cultivate less explosive but possibly more reliable. Could easily go G/x but i'm not sure if there's much worth splashing for. Trying to keep this budget friendly with an eye on the october rotation. I won't mind splashing some alara block, but i dont want to spend a lot of money on cards that are going to rotate in october.
Creatures: 11Phylactery Lich x4Stoneforge Mystic x3Tidehollow Sculler x3Sun Titan x1
Artifacts: 8Crystal Ball x3Whispersilk Cloak x2Sword of Vengeance x1Basilisk Collar x2
Other Spells: 16 Sign in Blood x3Doom Blade x3Day of Judgment x3Duress x3Consuming Vapors x2Condemn x2
Land: 25Arcane Sanctum x4Terramorphic Expanse x4Evolving Wilds x4Marsh Flats x1Plains x4Swamps x8Sideboard:Celestial Purge x3Inquisition of Kozilek x3Deathmark x3Vampire Nighthawk x3Condemn x1Tidehollow Sculler x1Sign in Blood x1
Ok, so I took this list to FNM and went 2-3, losing to Superfriends, UW eldrazi and Junk. With each of those matches I won 1 out of the three games. I'm looking to improve this deck so any help and advice would be nice. Also, I currently only have one Marsh Flats and I'm trying to trade for more.