[Archetype Revision]Mono-Black Control(MBC)

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Mono
Black
Control


IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/cardart/LRW/Liliana_Vess_640.jpg)


IMAGE(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee215/Hodoku/B.gif)
Introduction



What is Mono-Black Control (MBC)?
It is basically an attrition-style control deck that is based on using removal, disruption, and CA to run opponents out of steam, at which time you drop threats that are "too hot to handle". Black is generally a color that works off the mage in exchange for faster advantages. Cards like Sign in Blood and Bitterblossom are two shining examples. For 2 mana you gain 2 cards, but you have to give 2 life in exhange and for 1 life every turn during your upkeep you gain a 1/1 flying token. Very great advantages at a small price.

An example of this is I play against Kithkin alot so I do alot more riskier things early game, multiple usage of Sign in Blood, Thoughtseize, and Doom Blades have held off the game to where I could comfortably lay down a Vess and keep controlling the field while pumping her once a turn and grabbing all his creatures 3 turns later. Game Win.



Why play MBC?
Mono-Black is IMO, the proverbial rogue deck. It hasn't been a significant archetype for a while now and has lost some good spells. MBC is also a deck very few players prepare to see coming so they'll fill their decks full of easy to use spells without thinking about the possibility of encountering MBC. Play MBC if you're looking for something fresh and not another net deck.

Also a popular theme in the new MBC metagame is to splash a tinge of red or another color to deal with threats like Great Sable Stag, Chameleon Colossus, mirror matches, etc. I prefer [] for its easy to abuse versatility. Earthquake is one red and X so you could very well easily cast it without losing swamps to Corrupts and Tendrils. Also enables the powerful usage of Thought Hemorrhage to remove the win conditions from decks and leave them with nothing. A dangerous card indeed.


IMAGE(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee215/Hodoku/B.gif)
Card Choices


Cards to use in MBC
Creatures

Stillmoon Cavalier -- Stillmoon is a great card, rotating soon though in about a month and a 1/2. Useful for white and dealing with the myriads of kithkin, immune to Path of Exile and great pumping death.

Black Knight -- The BK is back! 2 mana, Pro white, First strike, easy answer to turn three Ball Lightning amongst other small 2/2's out there in the format. Easy to use and great MD card. Also immune to Path of Exile.

Murderous Redcap --Great mechanic for a card that just keeps coming back for seconds. 4 mana for a 2/2 that deals 3 damage overall by the time it dies once. If using a more aggressive MBC deck, Profane Command is a winner to mix and match with this card.

Demigod of Revenge -- I previously had excluded this from my previous deck list as it generally never won me the game as it usually got Pathed or chumped by something with Pro black and killed. Also with the Lark hate in the format people sideboarding in relics can hurt this card's potential if it ends up in your GY. Niche is right though. It CAN win games from nowhere.

Hypnotic Specter --Reason to use him? Cheap, 2/2, flyer, random discard. Absolutely wrecks control. Great card to use if you're low on cash and can't afford Thoughtseize. Not only will this little gem make your life easier, it makes a nightmare for a control player as they will have to deal with it immediately.

Fleshbag Marauder -- Great card. Absolutely necessary for dealing with Chameleon Colossus. Probably one of the biggest problems MBC has to deal with.

Gargoyle Castle -- Great for dealing with cards like Great Sable Stag or just an overall nice 3/4 flying finisher.

Liliana Vess -- Absolute must have for ANY MBC deck. Discard, Tutor, and Mass reanimation in one card.

There are probably other optional creature choices, I just haven't listed them as these are some of the best and most example worthy of cards in the format that take precedence over many others.




Non-Creatures
Thoughtseize -- Most decks have some annoying stuff. O-Ring, Glorious Anthem, Ultimatum, STORY CIRCLE. Run this. Auto 4-of.

Raven's Crime -- Discard that, if run, should be secondary to Thoughtseize. Great to use to just keep Control on lockdown.

Doom Blade -- Powerful two mana removal that destroys artifacts too. The new Terror minus the negation of regeneration.

Deathmark -- Solid one mana removal for cards like Figure of Destiny. Also great for elves.

Profane Command -- Great card if you're planning on an aggressive deck that plans on using creature mechanics to control the board. Not exactly a particular favorite of mine in a light creature deck.

Mind Shatter -- I run one MD as it will wreck the most potential decks and leave them hurting for top decking cards. I bring in a second one versus Control decks.

Corrupt -- Game swinger, or game winner. Either way, you're not losing. Run it. Auto 4 of.

Syphon Life -- Great card to use as an additional win. Corrupt for 6, few lands in hand, Retrace 3x for 6 more damage. Broken.

Makeshift Mannequin -- With alot of GY hate in the format in addition to Path of Exile, this card isn't as usable as previously used.

Bitterblossom -- Good for stallage, and GREAT for a continuous source of Noobstick targets. This can win games singlehandedly, but finding space for it is hard. Also, it's only good against our better match-ups (except Fae :P). So it's not really necessary.

Infest -- More of a MD card with all the rampant weenie decks in the format that are hard to get around. Elves, kithkin come to mind.

Tendrils of Corruption -- Solid removal for big creatures and life gain in one card. Can help off set the life loss from Bitterblossom.

Sideboard
Infest -- See above in spells.

Fleshbag Marauder -- See above in creatures.

Pithing Needle -- Planeswalkers, Manlands, Glen Elendra Archmage, and STORY CIRCLE are bummer cards that are good to off with this.

Relic of Progenitus -- Lark is really annoying to deal with with this deck. Just put an end to it already.

Shadowfeed -- better GY hate against red, Demigods, and 1-shot reanimation. Between this and relic, that's a meta call.

Festercreep -- extremely underrated. With reanimation effects, tokens and Fae have no chance of getting through with weenies frequently enough to actually win the game. If you are running a reanimation-heavy list, run this over Infest.

Memory Plunder -- Turn one Thoughtseize Ultimatum in 5cc, turn 4 end of turn Cruel Ultimatum. Get owned.

Duress --Sideboard card if you have the Thoughtseize, otherwise run it MD.

Mind Shatter --See above.

Splash cards
Earthquake -- Great board sweeper and player damage at the same time. Just doesn't hit flying and dead card against Fae with their fairy flyers.

Thought Hemorrhage -- Win condition removal. Shut down those annoying larks if they can't ever use them!

And of course, more copies of other cards in your MD that help your bad match-ups are a good idea.


IMAGE(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee215/Hodoku/B.gif)
Decklist



Decklists


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stillmoon+Cavalier" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Stillmoon+Cavalier">Stillmoon Cavalier</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bitterblossom" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Bitterblossom">Bitterblossom</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thoughtseize" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Thoughtseize">Thoughtseize</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doom+Blade" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Doom+Blade">Doom Blade</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Corrupt" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Corrupt">Corrupt</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sign+in+Blood" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Sign+in+Blood">Sign in Blood</a>
3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tendrils+of+Corruption" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Tendrils+of+Corruption">Tendrils of Corruption</a>
3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Infest" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Infest">Infest</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Duress" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Duress">Duress</a>
1 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mind+Shatter" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Mind+Shatter">Mind Shatter</a>


2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liliana+Vess" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Liliana+Vess">Liliana Vess</a>


3 x Swamp
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gargoyle+Castle" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Gargoyle+Castle">Gargoyle Castle</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fleshbag+Marauder" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Fleshbag+Marauder">Fleshbag Marauder</a>
3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deathmark" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Deathmark">Deathmark</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Duress" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Duress">Duress</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Memory+Plunder" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Memory+Plunder">Memory Plunder</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pithing+Needle" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Pithing+Needle">Pithing Needle</a>
1 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mind+Shatter" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Mind+Shatter">Mind Shatter</a>
1 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tendrils+of+Corruption" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Tendrils+of+Corruption">Tendrils of Corruption</a>
[/deck]

Another MBC deck, courtesy of Niche:


[deck=MBC]
Creatures: 11
4*Black Knight
4*Demigod of Revenge
3*Stillmoon Cavalier
Spells: 25
4*Thoughtseize
4*Bitterblossom
4*Doom Blade
4*Sign in Blood
4*Corrupt
3*Tendrils of Corruption
2*Scepter of Fugue
Land: 24
23*Swamp
1*Gargoyle Castle
[deck=Sideboard]
4*Duress
3*Infest
2*Memory Plunder
2*Trip Noose
4*Fleshbag Marauder
[/deck]
[/deck]


This one is by TheBanshee(an example of a MBC deck with splash:

[deck=MBC/:R: Splash]
Creatures 8
4 Black Knight
4 Stillmoon Cavalier

Spells 26
4 Thoughtseize
4 Sign in Blood
4 Doom Blade
4 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Corrupt
3 Earthquake
3 Profane Command

Planeswalkers 2
2 Liliana Vess

Lands 24
19 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Terramorphic Expanse

[Deck=Sideboard 15]
4 Memory Plunder
4 Duress
4 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Thought Hemorrhage

[/deck][/deck]



more to come!


IMAGE(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee215/Hodoku/B.gif)
Match-Ups



Match-ups
This is always a work in progress. But anyways, here's a brief take.

Will update soon!



IMAGE(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee215/Hodoku/B.gif)
My Thanks To:



~ Niche for his extensive dedication to MBC pre-Shards and continuing dedication!
~ Hudoku for the dividers!
~ WoTC for making this game huge and easy to rejoin the fun!
~ Glux for being the resident forum troll we all love and hate!
~ TheBanshee for allowing me to continue the archetype thread!
~ Click here for old archetype archive.

Recent Edits
~ Changed my Deck a bit
~ Fixed some typos
~ Added banner
~ Added Niche's deck to decklists
~ Added Demigod of Revenge of cards to play in Creatures
Thank you, Ill have the old thread closed now.

Good job.
VCL (Volunteer Community Lead - Deck Critique (MTG)) Volunteer Community Nutritionist - (I am watching you diet, even when you think I am not.) Photobucket What my sig is based off of.
heh... okay, here's some things that need to happen:

-Fix the card choices
-Some decklists (I'll post mine)
-new Match-Ups
-Explaining new tech (Splash red for Earthquake, 8-Knights)


Anyways, here's my list:

4 Black Knight
4 Stillmoon

4 Thoughtseize
4 Sign in Blood
4 Doom Blade
4 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Corrupt
3 Earthquake
3 Profane Command
2 Liliana Vess

19 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Terramorphic Expanse

4 Memory Plunder
4 Duress
4 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Thought Hemorrhage
Here is a budget friendly version (No Thoughtseize or Bitterblossom) that won me my last FNM tournament:

Creatures - 7

3 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 Black Knight

Spells - 29

4 Infest
4 Doom Blade
4 Unmake
4 Sign in Blood
4 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Corrupt
3 Profane Command
2 Liliana Vess

Lands - 24

22 Swamps
2 Gargoyle Castle

Sideboard -

4 Deathmark
4 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Duress
3 Pithing Needle




Also might I suggest in the opening Post there, that you make a link to the older thread, so that people can reference the discussion that is archived there?
Main post has been heavily edited. Will finish match-ups tomorrow as I'm heavily exhausted after a long day of work and WoW and deck analyzing. I placed my current MBC decklist for your viewing pleasure in the decklists. If you see anything that I might have missed or maybe think it would be helpful then by all means suggest it and I will add it in.

After all, this is a community effort, not just one person.
~ Glux for being the resident forum troll we all love and hate!

I lol'd
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~ Glux for being the resident forum troll we all hate!

Fixed.
This is my currently endorsed best MBC list, for reference:


[/deck]

Also, you need to add Demigod to the list of creatures, its still an amazingly powerful play that just wins games from nowhere.

And Scepter of Fugue deserves mention as very mainboardable 5cc hate.

Thanks for the nod in the OP.

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Fixed.

Dont start.
VCL (Volunteer Community Lead - Deck Critique (MTG)) Volunteer Community Nutritionist - (I am watching you diet, even when you think I am not.) Photobucket What my sig is based off of.
Current Version of MBC that I'm running.

Still running Vampire Nocturnus. I know he has his pitfalls, but he's a solid card all in all in my opinion. Especially with Vess out and tutoring away. Other non-rotating finisher suggestions are welcome however. Nyxathid may get a shot in this spot if I can get a playset at a reasonable price.

I still need to find a playset of Corrupts!! If I don't find someone with a Shadowmoor playset this week at FNM, I'm going to have to break down and buy the Urza's Saga ones...(not a fan of the artwork on it compared to the Shadowmoor one).

I'm a bit worried about the crowding at the 2, 4 and 5cmc spots in the deck. Still working on what to do about it though. Nyxathid would help this out somewhat though.

Gargoyle Castle probably will get a 2 week stint in the deck, as next weeks FNM is finally back to constructed (finally a break from drafts) so I want to see how it does.

Mono-Black Control v4.0:

Creatures (7)
4x Black Knight
3x Vampire Nocturnus

Planeswalkers (2)
2x Liliana Vess

Spells (25)
4x Corrupt
4x Doom Blade
4x Duress
4x Sign in Blood
4x Tendrils of Corruption
3x Infest
2x Sanguine Bond

Land (26)
24x Swamp
2x Gargoyle Castle

Sideboard (15)
4x Deathmark
4x Fleshbag Marauder
3x Mind Shatter
2x Haunting Echoes
2x Scepter of Fugue

EDIT: Took out the extra Duress.
Dont start.

Sorry :embarrass
Leechridden Swamp because it counts as a swamp for all other purposes.. and you dont have all that many 1 drops.
Okay so this msy sound stupid

but as far as a splash goes... could MBC (mostly Black control work with blue?)

Blue gives you one of my favorite cards for 5cc hate.... Hive Mind

Along with Agony Warp for aggro..

IDK also hive mind makes infest much more potent, with no guys of your own your doom blades and agony warps turn into 2-1's

:]

Just a thought
Current Version of MBC that I'm running.

Still running Vampire Nocturnus. I know he has his pitfalls, but he's a solid card all in all in my opinion. Especially with Vess out and tutoring away. Other non-rotating finisher suggestions are welcome however. Nyxathid may get a shot in this spot if I can get a playset at a reasonable price.

I still need to find a playset of Corrupts!! If I don't find someone with a Shadowmoor playset this week at FNM, I'm going to have to break down and buy the Urza's Saga ones...(not a fan of the artwork on it compared to the Shadowmoor one).

I'm a bit worried about the crowding at the 2, 4 and 5cmc spots in the deck. Still working on what to do about it though. Nyxathid would help this out somewhat though.

Gargoyle Castle probably will get a 2 week stint in the deck, as next weeks FNM is finally back to constructed (finally a break from drafts) so I want to see how it does.

Mono-Black Control v4.0:

Creatures (7)
4x Black Knight
3x Vampire Nocturnus

Planeswalkers (2)
2x Liliana Vess

Spells (25)
4x Corrupt
4x Doom Blade
4x Duress
4x Sign in Blood
4x Tendrils of Corruption
4x Duress
3x Infest
2x Sanguine Bond

Land (26)
24x Swamp
2x Gargoyle Castle

Sideboard (15)
4x Deathmark
4x Fleshbag Marauder
3x Mind Shatter
2x Haunting Echoes
2x Scepter of Fugue

nice build but you have 8 duress MD ....

idkwhatimdoing Okay so this msy sound stupid

but as far as a splash goes... could MBC (mostly Black control work with blue?)

Blue gives you one of my favorite cards for 5cc hate.... Hive Mind

Along with Agony Warp for aggro..

IDK also hive mind makes infest much more potent, with no guys of your own your doom blades and agony warps turn into 2-1's

:]

Just a thought

But look what time it is when you are able to make your infest or agony warp count? round 7 ? a decent aggro deck kills you in turn 5 with some luck in turn 4 you don`t have the time to wait with your removal and if you survive until late game you don`t realy need that card becasu the aggro has no cards in hand ...

Against an 5cc it could be good but I don`t realy think they will let you play the card ... so to my eyes its a dead card but you can trie and post the results.

As for my .. like Niche siad forget the splash and go Mono-Black it rocks the most since it has the best outcome ... no dead cards in hand beause you don`t draw mana or other way around no dead mana.

CC and GSS are a problem in Mono-Black but I have a fighting plan since green and white lack Counter magic I will side Tarala`s Bane for a turn 2 or 3 disscard + life gain and then hitting him in turn 5 with Hounting Echoes.
K then ill post my (budget) list here to be easier to view it, along with a copy paste of my last text:

22x Swamp
2x Leechridden Swamp

24 spells

4x Corrupt
4x Tendrils of Corruption
4x Duress
4x Sign in Blood
4x Doom Blade
2x Lilliana Vess
2x Scepter of Fugue

12 creatures

4x Black Knight
4x Hypnotic Specter
4x Murderous Redcap

Side:
4x Fleshbag Marauder
4x Deathmark
4x Infest
3x Memory Plunder

Ok i tested my list that i posted on the page before (iv'e been living under a rock apparently since i just recently found out about a nice little online testing program ), and overall im pleased with the results. The deck curves nice, has good answers, and after side it gets much, much easier. And the best thing, rarely is the opponent prepared for what im packing .

Now i need some advice for which i already asked: do i need more discard? I personally think yes. Mind Shatter, Talara's Bane and Haunting Echoes are tempting, and im thinking of even going 61 card by adding a third Scepter, whenever they entered they were life saving.

Also i need some advice on matchups, from what ive seen Jund i can beat, Ramp i eat alive, Mill is ok, 5cc control is a bit problematic but Plunders+Duress help (thus my discard question), 5cc Bloodbraid is ok, Faeries are... tough....., Merfolk fairly reasonable unless they go off insane, Bant too. Rb aggro is a pain game one, much easier game afterwards. R/G can be problematic if fast but Tendrils and Black Knight stall early. Ill try and post some more detailed matchups after playing some serious games, most of those were played without side, but im pretty confident i would have won them anyway.

My worst matchups so far are fast White aggro and Vaults+Time Sieve decks, Soldiers ate me alive, 2 Honors on the board and my Infests get useless, and even with one its tough. What should i board against them, what to kill, pick of with Duress etc. Against Time i sincerely dont know what to do...
My worst matchups so far are fast White aggro and Vaults+Time Sieve decks, Soldiers ate me alive, 2 Honors on the board and my Infests get useless, and even with one its tough. What should i board against them, what to kill, pick of with Duress etc. Against Time i sincerely dont know what to do...

It`s not very easy to make the right decission against Time Sieve.dec. If you can see a Tezzeret pick him! They are usually playing just 2 of them (which is there keycard to win games). Otherwise pick, whatever you are afraid of.

If you`re on the play and you`re seeing one land, borderpost and some random artifacts pick the borderpost. No Borderpost but just one land? Pick anything that they let them draw cards, elsewhere flask, mine or the other cc2 artifact (the name won`t come to my mind right now )

Underworld dreams is nearly an autowin against them, especially, when you ve got 2 of them on the board. They`ll side in solemn offering to disrupt it, so be aware and pick those, if you don`t have a second dreams...
So, an new tech?

Last night at FNM, the winning deck was monoblack, it played 2/2 split of mutavault and gargoyle castles. It was black knights, stillmoons, oona's prowlers, tendrils, corrupts, thoughtseize, bitterblossoms, removal. Last week he played the same deck and managed a 3-1. I don't think it's the right direction to go with the deck, but I thought I'd mention it at least.
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could it be viable to make a very discard heavy list with thoughtseize, spectre, scepter of fuge, and nyxathid?
could it be viable to make a very discard heavy list with thoughtseize, spectre, scepter of fuge, and nyxathid?

Mind Shatter and Haunting Echoes would fit in nicely into that theme as well.
could it be viable to make a very discard heavy list with thoughtseize, spectre, scepter of fuge, and nyxathid?

If you're going to go that far, you might as well throw in a megrim or two, even though it is most certainly a win-more card. Totally spitballing here but if I was going to play Monoblack I'd go with something like this

4 Thoughseize
4 Mind Shatter
2 Scepter of Fugue
2 Duress

4 Demigod of Revenge

4 Doom Blade
4 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Infest
1 Consume Spirit
4 Sign in Blood

2 Liliana Vess

4 Mutavault
2 Leechridden Swamp
19 Swamp
Mind Shatter and Haunting Echoes would fit in nicely into that theme as well.

yes but i am questioning its viability. I think it would make control a much easier match at least?
Yes, adding additional discard improves your 5cc matchup. Unfortunately, the cost is going to be your matchups against Elves, Kithkin, RDW, and (to a lesser extent) Faeries.

Also, remember that the point of discard in a mono black deck is twofold.

1. Discard is a form of card advantage that (thanks to Thoughtseize) can also provide a tempo advantage. You get to trade what is essentially a utility card for the best card in their hand given the turn and the context. Most relevant against Aggro, as opposing control decks will just continue to draw cards.

2. A way to force through your bombs. Traditional Control (5cc!) is built to a large extent around countering your game-winning spells. It's often best to hold discard mid to late game for an opportunity to force through a Nightmare Incursion, Oona, Demigod of Revenge, or other game winner.

Decks that organize themselves tightly around discard can be a mistake because, unfortunately, your opponent will eventually run out of cards and move to topdeck mode. Is this bad? No, but your cards will still be majority about removing cards from their hand and not answering their topdecked Bituminous Blast. Nerzhul (spelling?) made an outstanding point in his opening post that MBC is primarily about attrition. MBC decks have to, eventually, outlast their opponent and then go win the game at their leisure. I'd keep with the majority of lists that are using discard but not relying upon it as an organizing theme.

My list:

4 Thoughtseize

2 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Oona Queen

3 Bitterblossom
3 Stillmoon Cavalier
3 Dusk Urchins
4 Sign in Blood

3 Doom Blade
3 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Snakeform
2 Infest
3 Tendrils of Corruption

2 Corrupt

4 Twilight Mire
4 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Forest
15 Swamp


SB:

2 Divinity of Pride
1 Infest
1 Haunting Echoes
3 Black Knight
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
2 Scepter of Fugue
1 Nightmare Incursion
2 Snakeform
2 Memory Plunde


I admit, my weakest point is my sideboard. Still mulling over some changes to it in my head.
Yes, adding additional discard improves your 5cc matchup. Unfortunately, the cost is going to be your matchups against Elves, Kithkin, RDW, and (to a lesser extent) Faeries.

well if we up our number of discard spells and play nyxathid and hippy and keep all our spot removal and infests we might be ok?
It`s not very easy to make the right decission against Time Sieve.dec. If you can see a Tezzeret pick him! They are usually playing just 2 of them (which is there keycard to win games). Otherwise pick, whatever you are afraid of.

If you`re on the play and you`re seeing one land, borderpost and some random artifacts pick the borderpost. No Borderpost but just one land? Pick anything that they let them draw cards, elsewhere flask, mine or the other cc2 artifact (the name won`t come to my mind right now )

Underworld dreams is nearly an autowin against them, especially, when you ve got 2 of them on the board. They`ll side in solemn offering to disrupt it, so be aware and pick those, if you don`t have a second dreams...

I played following your advice and was able to win some games but barely its still tough. I still think i need more discard in my deck, at least 2 Mind Shatter and 1 Scepter main, but i dont know what to take out for them. Idealy id like 1 Haunting Echoes, 2 Mind Shatter and 1 Scepter main. Im thinking more and more for a secondary finisher besides Corrupt for the deck, yes it wins games but against control i gotta make him use up all counters before i cast it and thats not easy. Not to mention if someone packs Swerve (didnt encounter this but im scared of it). At least a Dread or two, or board some Nyxathids?
well if we up our number of discard spells and play nyxathid and hippy and keep all our spot removal and infests we might be ok?

If you go the discard route then yes, Nyxathid is a must have 4-of. Hippy is great, but would probably interact unfavorably with your maindecked Infests. If you do go discard then I think the deck has to shift from control to a more aggressive footing.
One thing to consider though, is if you're forcing them to topdeck after having discarded their entire hand, yes, you may get smacked with a Bit Blast, but they won't have responses to cards you want to play either, such as Sanguine Bond followed by Corrupt and Tendrils of Corruption.
Yes, adding additional discard improves your 5cc matchup. Unfortunately, the cost is going to be your matchups against Elves, Kithkin, RDW, and (to a lesser extent) Faeries.

Also, remember that the point of discard in a mono black deck is twofold.

1. Discard is a form of card advantage that (thanks to Thoughtseize) can also provide a tempo advantage. You get to trade what is essentially a utility card for the best card in their hand given the turn and the context. Most relevant against Aggro, as opposing control decks will just continue to draw cards.

2. A way to force through your bombs. Traditional Control (5cc!) is built to a large extent around countering your game-winning spells. It's often best to hold discard mid to late game for an opportunity to force through a Nightmare Incursion, Oona, Demigod of Revenge, or other game winner.

Decks that organize themselves tightly around discard can be a mistake because, unfortunately, your opponent will eventually run out of cards and move to topdeck mode. Is this bad? No, but your cards will still be majority about removing cards from their hand and not answering their topdecked Bituminous Blast. Nerzhul (spelling?) made an outstanding point in his opening post that MBC is primarily about attrition. MBC decks have to, eventually, outlast their opponent and then go win the game at their leisure. I'd keep with the majority of lists that are using discard but not relying upon it as an organizing theme.

That was from my OP, which I told him he could copy. So thank you :P
That was from my OP, which I told him he could copy. So thank you :P

Any Time! Good Ideas are Good Ideas!
On Saturday I will go to my next FNM with the Mono-black deck my variation of it.

creatures: 10
4 Black Knight
4 Murderous Redcap
2 Nightmare

Spells:26
4 Duress
4 Doom Blade
4 Sign in blood
3 Infest
4 Tendrills
2 Corrupt
1 Mind Shatter
1 Memory Plunder
1 Hounting Echoes
1 Rise from the grave -> not sure about this but we will see
1 Soul siphone -> not sure about this too

Plainswalker:1
1 Liliana Vess

Lands :
4 Gargoyle Castle
20 Swamps

SB :
3 Memory Plunder
4 DeathMark
4 Tarala`s bane
1 Liliana Vess
1 Hounting Echoes
1 Infest
1 Flashbag -> or Trip hose
hi all i have a standard fnm tournament tonight and im going to report back.

if you could give me some thought on my list it would be appreciated

heres the link plz take a look.
http://magic-decks.de/deck-887-63495fe831ce2b74d57ef71d58fb5fd8-en.html
I am White/Black
I am White/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both orderly and selfish. I act mostly for my own benefit, but I respect and help my community - Specially when it helps me. At best, I'm loyal and dedicated; at worst, I'm elitist and shrewd.
wizards please bring back autocard decktags etc. currently playing mono-black control(awsome) forum avatar
hi all i have a standard fnm tournament tonight and im going to report back.

if you could give me some thought on my list it would be appreciated

heres the link plz take a look.
http://magic-decks.de/deck-887-63495fe831ce2b74d57ef71d58fb5fd8-en.html
I am White/Black
I am White/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both orderly and selfish. I act mostly for my own benefit, but I respect and help my community - Specially when it helps me. At best, I'm loyal and dedicated; at worst, I'm elitist and shrewd.
wizards please bring back autocard decktags etc. currently playing mono-black control(awsome) forum avatar
On Saturday I will go to my next FNM with the Mono-black deck my variation of it.

creatures: 10
4 Black Knight
4 Murderous Redcap
2 Nightmare

Spells:26
4 Duress
4 Doom Blade
4 Sign in blood
3 Infest
4 Tendrills
2 Corrupt
1 Mind Shatter
1 Memory Plunder
1 Hounting Echoes
1 Rise from the grave -> not sure about this but we will see
1 Soul siphone -> not sure about this too

Plainswalker:1
1 Liliana Vess

Lands :
4 Gargoyle Castle
20 Swamps

SB :
3 Memory Plunder
4 DeathMark
4 Tarala`s bane
1 Liliana Vess
1 Hounting Echoes
1 Infest
1 Flashbag -> or Trip hose

Your deck looks kinda random with 5 1-offs and just 1 single Tutor (Vees) for them. You should streamline you deck to make it more consistant. I like it too to have several utility cards, but you don`t have anything to get them when you really need those.

What are u doing against GSS and CC if they are going through your Talara's Bane? I guess that your single Fleshbag or Trip Noose won`t help here at all. You should either play 3-4 Maurauders or the same amount of Trip`s.

Is Nightmare such a strong card? It`s a big threat, sure, but you can`t generate any cardadvabtage through it out of beating. I`d suggest to take Oona or even Demigod's instead of.

SB:

2 Divinity of Pride
1 Infest
1 Haunting Echoes
3 Black Knight
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
2 Scepter of Fugue
1 Nightmare Incursion
2 Snakeform
2 Memory Plunde

I would use something like this:

2 Snakeform
2 Scepter of Fugue
3 Underworld Dreams // Relic of Progenitus (against Time Sieve combo)
3 Duress
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
1 Infest
3 Faerie Macabre (against unearth, Demigods and Lark) // 3 Memory Plunder


Im thinking more and more for a secondary finisher besides Corrupt for the deck, yes it wins games but against control i gotta make him use up all counters before i cast it and thats not easy. Not to mention if someone packs Swerve (didnt encounter this but im scared of it). At least a Dread or two, or board some Nyxathids?

What`s up with 4 Demigod`s? They are an excellent wincondition with a nice suprise-effect. Also helps to make your matchup against control better.

This is, what I`m toying around atm:

MD
22 Swamp
3 Gargoyle Castle

4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
3 Haunting Echoes

3 Infest
4 Doom Blade
3 Tendrils of Corruption

3 Corrupt
4 Bitterblossom
4 Demigod of Revenge

4 Sign in Blood
60

2 Scepter of Fugue
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Trip Noose
1 Haunting Echoes
4 Underworld Dreams (My Meta is full of Time Sieve...)
1 Infest
1 Duress
15

Any thoughts?
Good core to the deck. I like Demigods, I don't see why anyone would drop them from this deck.

3 Duress 4 Seize is probably too much, as is 3 Echoes.

I wouldn't play less than 26 land in this deck either.
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Good core to the deck. I like Demigods, I don't see why anyone would drop them from this deck.

3 Duress 4 Seize is probably too much, as is 3 Echoes.

I wouldn't play less than 26 land in this deck either.

I was starting all over with just 4-offs in this deck plus 26 lands. Wanted to totally restart to see, how it goes with a constistant built. After a lot of testing I`ve made some cuts - cutting 1 land was something I`ve made very late. But i feel very confident with "just" 25 lands.

I was a bit sceptic about Haunting Echoes too but I`ve seen many many people who was playing it, so I`ve tested it out. It has a very strong synergy with early TS and Duresses. Even against control a BOMB! Holding back 1 TS or Duress to cast it on turn 6 followed by a surely hitting Echoes... trust me, many players were scooping at this time ;)

I don`t feel like playing too much Duresses. Those make sure to have a good start against control, and even creature-heavy decks can be hurt as well by picking their PtE avoiding to get rid of my beloved Demigods or some Primal Commands, Bit Blasts and so on.
any thoughts on my deck? i really want your opp
I am White/Black
I am White/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both orderly and selfish. I act mostly for my own benefit, but I respect and help my community - Specially when it helps me. At best, I'm loyal and dedicated; at worst, I'm elitist and shrewd.
wizards please bring back autocard decktags etc. currently playing mono-black control(awsome) forum avatar
hi all i have a standard fnm tournament tonight and im going to report back.

if you could give me some thought on my list it would be appreciated

heres the link plz take a look.
http://magic-decks.de/deck-887-63495fe831ce2b74d57ef71d58fb5fd8-en.html

Here we go:

Consume Spirit -> Corrupt

As you are playing Tendrils to get rid of threats in the midgame you can play Corrupt to deal +2 damage for the same amount of mana.

If you have them, add 2-3 Gargoyle Castle`s, they are nice late game uncounterable Mini-Finisher and GSS-blocker.

Add a 4th Duress, you can cut 1 Infest for.

Use Relic of Progenitus instead of Shadowfeed, it`s more useful since you can handle time sieve and unearth as well which Shadowfeed won`t do.

Looks like a solid Budget deck
Here we go:

Consume Spirit -> Corrupt

As you are playing Tendrils to get rid of threats in the midgame you can play Corrupt to deal +2 damage for the same amount of mana.

If you have them, add 2-3 Gargoyle Castle`s, they are nice late game uncounterable Mini-Finisher and GSS-blocker.

Add a 4th Duress, you can cut 1 Infest for.

Use Relic of Progenitus instead of Shadowfeed, it`s more useful since you can handle time sieve and unearth as well which Shadowfeed won`t do.

Looks like a solid Budget deck

tnx i dont have corrupts yet but am trying to get them tonight.
also i dont know about the infest durres swap ill see what people bring first.( we normaly play draft or exstended so i dont kno what the others have).

btw dread effeckt kills collossus right? and stag 2 i gess
I am White/Black
I am White/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both orderly and selfish. I act mostly for my own benefit, but I respect and help my community - Specially when it helps me. At best, I'm loyal and dedicated; at worst, I'm elitist and shrewd.
wizards please bring back autocard decktags etc. currently playing mono-black control(awsome) forum avatar
I was a bit sceptic about Haunting Echoes too but I`ve seen many many people who was playing it, so I`ve tested it out. It has a very strong synergy with early TS and Duresses. Even against control a BOMB! Holding back 1 TS or Duress to cast it on turn 6 followed by a surely hitting Echoes... trust me, many players were scooping at this time ;)

I don`t feel like playing too much Duresses. Those make sure to have a good start against control, and even creature-heavy decks can be hurt as well by picking their PtE avoiding to get rid of my beloved Demigods or some Primal Commands, Bit Blasts and so on.

Even if you like Echoes, three is clearly two much. I'd stick with one, but two if you really love it THAT much.

And all of your one mana spells make for some really, really bad topdecks.
Photobucket Team GFG - Glux's Fine Gents
Mhm... thats true. Thanks for that hint, never thought about it in this way.

What`s about these changes:

-1 Haunting Echoes
-3 Duress

+1 Tendrils of Corruption
+2 Scepter of Fugue
+1 Raven's Crime <- I guess that I don`t like it in here, but never tested...`

SB-Changes as well:
-2 Scepter of Fugue
+2 Duress
I like it. Raven's Crime is a decent card, and the Scepter is brutal against 5cc, which you have like a 20% matchup with.

One thing everyone in this thread is sorely missing is SB Puppeteer Cliques.

He is SOOOO good. I'd play 3 SB if I were to play this deck, and I would probably honestly test it if you didn't have an autoloss to the best and most popular deck.
Photobucket Team GFG - Glux's Fine Gents
Your deck looks kinda random with 5 1-offs and just 1 single Tutor (Vees) for them. You should streamline you deck to make it more consistant. I like it too to have several utility cards, but you don`t have anything to get them when you really need those.

Well the deck may look kind of random but it isn`t the main theme is to win the first game by beat with creatures ... actually I played 3-0 last turnament with it and I never lost the first game off the match not even against a 5cc .... then I SB what I need against the deck I`m faceing.
The 5 1-offs is for the surprise win when I play 1-off he doesn`t expect it it`s just a kick off and it really winns somethimes.

What are u doing against GSS and CC if they are going through your Talara's Bane? I guess that your single Fleshbag or Trip Noose won`t help here at all. You should either play 3-4 Maurauders or the same amount of Trip`s.

well I think me hitting his GSS or CC with Tarala`s Bane is much bigger then you hitting him with Flashbag actualy and trip noose only stalls for time it`s not an actual sollution.

You see Let`s say you and me draw an ideal hand ok? now what is the chance that you on turn four when he can play the CC have a turn 3 infest or Earthquake + a flashbag and he doesnt have a creature that he could posibly sacrifice for the CC its a risk and in 75% of scenarios it just doesn`t work you must by really lucky ... then again I play turn 1 duress or turn 2 then turn 3 talara`s bane and I`m sure I hit the CC and when he is in grave it`s just a matter of time till i hit Echoes and It`s GG from my site of view it`s just a more silod way to deal with him.

Is Nightmare such a strong card? It`s a big threat, sure, but you can`t generate any cardadvabtage through it out of beating. I`d suggest to take Oona or even Demigod's instead of.

Sure Nightmare Is not that big threat as Demigod .... but a playset of demigods would cost my about 60$ in my country and is just not worth it for the short amount off time he is playeble.