[Archetype] Mono-Black Control (MBC)

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Mono
Black
Control




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Introduction



What is Mono-Black Control (MBC)?
It is basically an attrition-style control deck that is based on using removal, disruption, and CA to run opponents out of steam, at which time you drop threats that are "too hot to handle".

It's also a really expensive archetype (veto a $150 mana base)


Why play MBC?
Mono-Black is yet again an archetype that is not getting any love right now. I've been playing it at my FNM lately (which is littered with netdecks, by the way), and getting better results than I did pre-rotation, when we had Korlash, Slaughter Pact, and Damnation, and Extirpate support in the sideboard.

In other words: thre reason to play MBC is because it has the tools to better deal with the current meta than it did the pre-shards meta.


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Card Choices


Cards to use in MBC
Creatures
Stillmoon Cavalier -- Stillmoon is a MUST HAVE. It plays a shut down role against a huge percentage of the meta. It wins me 75% of the games that I win. Auto 4-of.

Demigod of Revenge -- Primary finisher. It recurs. It's difficult to answer, having haste. And it's big. Auto 4-of.

Oona, Queen of the Fae -- Secondary finisher. The blockers is makes puts an end to aggro, and overwhelms control. If it sticks, you usually win. It can also mill in stalemates. 2-of is a good number.

Viscera Dragger -- People look down at it, but it DOES win games when paired with Loxodon Warhammer. Aside from that, it's good set-up when you cycle it early on.

Dusk Urchins -- Provides massive CA when left unchecked. When it gets removed, then it just ate up some removal, which is always good. Bet certainly not the best case scenario. 3-of seems to be a good number in conjunction with 3-4 Viscera.

Shriekmaw -- used to get the short end of the stick. I haven't put much experience with him under my belt yet, but what I've done so far, he's looking really good for two reasons. 1: better topdeck than other removal. 2: GREAT with Mannequin. 3-of.


Non-Creatures
Thoughtseize -- Most decks have some annoying stuff. O-Ring, Glorious Anthem, Ultimatum, STORY CIRCLE. Run this. Auto 4-of.

Raven's Crime -- Discard that, if run, should be secondary to Thoughtseize. Great with Crucible of Worlds, though.

Unmake -- The best removal we have on its own. But some of the other junk we run is better because of the deck, but at the same time does not by any means rely on synergy. This versatility is where this deck's power comes from. RFG is VERY relevant. 3-4 of. 4th in SB if not MD.

Terror -- More solid removal. This is great to have somewhere in the deck to avoid the Fae-Walk.

Profane Command -- Fear comes in handy once in a while. Still least often, though. Removal, and Recur are both very useful to this deck with 19 creatures (a lot for control, but they have control effects, for the most part). The life drain dodges Story Circle, which is a HUGE bonus. 3-of.

Mind Shatter -- This falls out of lists for space issues, usually. But in general, landing it wrecks any deck. Really.

Loxodon Warhammer -- AMAZING with unearth, and GREAT with Stillmoon against the right deck. This will keep you alive/win you a lot of games.

Corrupt -- Game swinger, or game winner. Either way, you're not losing. Run it. 2-3-of.

Syphon Life -- If you run Crucible of Worlds, this could be quite productive, but otherwise, Corrupt is better.

Makeshift Mannequin -- Uber with the entire creature base, kinda aside from Demigod, which has a better version of it built in. A) It makes Dusk Urchins better against WW/Kith, being a cantripping combat trick-kill spell; B) It is a POWERHOUSE with Shriekmaw; and C) "EOT bring back Oona" can spell gg for some matches.

Bitterblossom -- Good for stallage, and GREAT for a continuous source of Noobstick targets. This can win games singlehandedly, but finding space for it is hard. Also, it's only good against our better match-ups (except Fae :P). So it's not really necessary.

Crucible of Worlds -- Some builds will run this + Terramorphic Expanse and a couple retrace spells to thin the lands out of the deck. If you can make space, this could definately be worthwhile.


Sideboard
Infest -- Meta choice between SB and MD. Chances are, though, that you WILL need these somewhere.

Fleshbag Marauder -- "Why not just run Cruel Edict??" Because Profane and Mannequin can hit this, and Chameleon Colossus, Stillmoon, AND Oversoul are all really annoying. And saccing your Faerie tokens or unearthed Draggers is good fun.

Pithing Needle -- Planeswalkers, Manlands, Glen Elendra Archmage, and STORY CIRCLE are bummer cards that are good to off with this.

Relic of Progenitus -- Lark is really annoying to deal with with this deck. Just put an end to it already.

Shadowfeed -- better GY hate against red, Demigods, and 1-shot reanimation. Between this and relic, that's a meta call.

Festercreep -- extremely underrated. With reanimation effects, tokens and Fae have no chance of getting through with weenies frequently enough to actually win the game. If you are running a reanimation-heavy list, run this over Infest.

And of course, more copies of other cards in your MD that help your bad match-ups are a good idea.


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Decklist





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Match-Ups



Match-ups
This is always a work in progress. But anyways, here's a brief take.

WW/Kith
Stillmoon singlehandedly takes the cake. Keep stalling with him + removal until he weilds a Noobstick. By then, they're exhausted, and can't keep up. Post-board is a complete joke. They side in Moonglove Extract, which hits stillmoon, and is really irritating. Hence I put 3 Mannequins into my deck. My total 10 stillmoons > 4 moongloves. Also, Shriekmaw and Infest eats them alive.

They might try to sideboard Wrath also to deal with Stillmoon. Use this against them by always keeping a Stillmoon in hand if you have one for them to wrath. That, or a reanimation spell.


Faeries
My least experienced match-up. It all comes down to your 3-drops -- dropping them under the counter radar. That is: Stillmoons, Noobstick, and Dusk Urchins. After that, it's about targetting the right things. This is the order of priority. Thoughtseize: Bitterblossom, Mistbind, Cryptic/Scion, Counters. Removal: Mistbind Clique, Mutavault/Conclave, anything else.

Dropping a hammer is amazing, because cycle+unearth viscera dragger is uncounterable. If you hardcast the dragger, they most likely will be forced to counter it. That's a lose-lose for them. I might run 4 draggers and urchins if fae is prominent in the meta.


5-Color Control
Outrun them. Outrun them, outrun them, outrun them. They draw lots of cards. Their removal is RFG/BOL (bottom of library). That can't it hit? Stillmoon. What can get by him? Rhox War Monk, Mulldrifter. It's funny watching them squirm against them. They might finally get rid of him with Snakeform, or a Sweeper. We have 3 more, and 6 reanimation effects. Play your spells, in order of least important first when you know they're holding counters. Try and stick a hammer. Again, Viscera Dragger is great here, and Stillmoon + Hammer can win it. THOUGHTSEIZE THE ULTIMATUM, AND YOU SHOULD BE SET!


Red Deck Wins
Removing their creatures is key, because their burn alone will not kill you in time to keep up with your lifegain, at which point, you can begin trying to overwhelm them. Loxodon Warhammer and Corrupt are key. As is Thoughtseize. If you hit their only turn 1 play in hand, you can screw their tempo. If you rid them of burn, they will begin to have problems keeping you at bay. Anything you can do to keep damage away from you is making their game more difficult. You will likely win off the backs of Profane, Corrupt, Demigod, and Noobstick. As such, if this deck is big in your meta, pack your SB with these relevant cards.


Boat Brew
This deck is annoying, because it doesn't stop churning out crap. You need to hit the right things with Thoughtseize. And there are a lot of "right things". This will probably be our hardest match-up, because of their CA. You basically have to go nuts with the direct damage: Profane, Corrupt, and Noobstick+Unearth (I consider that DD, because only a player who is already losing will throw creatures at it. That, or they have a bigger creature than you, which they shouldn't).


Elves
I only really have play experience against G/B elves and Mono-green Elves!, which plays a lot of weenies. G/B is slower, with removal support. G/B is simple. Kill everything. Chameleons will show up. Fleshbag + 6 reanimation effects should be enough to shut him up. The faster mono-green variant is a bit harder to keep up with. Just kill the important targets and try to get some blockers down. If you land some big threats, or a Noobstick, you should be able to run them out.


Lark (lots of deck run it. Just read...)
RELIC OF PROGENITUS!!! But seriously speaking, you need to try and win before they get rolliong with more and more Lark triggers. Otherwise, they WILL overwhelm you. DO NOT TRY AND OUT-STEAM A LARK DECK!


Bant
Stillmoon for the win. No matter whether its aggro or control, just kill their creatures, and they can't win.


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My Thanks To:



~ Niche for his extensive dedication to MBC pre-Shards.
~ Hudoku for the dividers
~ WoTC for making this game huge.
~ Me for being me.
~ Whoever makes me a banner (PM me).


EDIT: adding RDW to match-ups. This message will be removed when it is done.
you spelled archetype wrong.

EDIT: And you don't draw stillmoon every single game
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EDIT: SPAM nvm.
you spelled archetype wrong.

Muffin.

...yea, I'll fix that now.
hmmm, nice, ill work on a list tomorrow.
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I'd say my dedication was more pre-shards. Even then I did some work with Fleshbag and Infest I suppose.

Here's a list I like a lot:

// Lands
21 [CHK] Swamp (2)
3 [10E] Terramorphic Expanse

// Creatures
4 [ALA] Viscera Dragger
2 [LRW] Liliana Vess
1 [SHM] Midnight Banshee
3 [EVE] Stillmoon Cavalier

// Spells
3 [EVE] Unmake
3 [SHM] Corrupt
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [LRW] Profane Command
3 [10E] Mind Stone
1 [10E] Loxodon Warhammer
1 [10E] Beacon of Unrest
4 [MOR] Bitterblossom
4 [10E] Terror

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [MOR] Mind Shatter
SB: 3 [10E] Bottle Gnomes
SB: 1 [SHM] Memory Plunder
SB: 1 [ALA] Tar Fiend
SB: 4 [ALA] Fleshbag Marauder
SB: 4 [ALA] Infest

Basically just speed/cycle into your bombs and begin playing them aggressively. Bitterblossom and Stillmoon are only meant to buy time, but of course they can win games out of nowhere. There is a small tutorbox for some kung fu grip. And Mind Stone allows you to instantly tutor to hand with Liliana in a panic situation as does Dragger.

Sideboarding should be fairly intuitive. Midnight Banshee should be interchangeable with Tar Fiend based on your meta. If its Boat Brew, Elves!, Kithkin, or Zoo heavy go with Banshee. If its faeries and 5cc go with Tar Fiend maindeck instead.

Otherwise against 5cc:
-2 Terror, -1 Profane, +2 Mind Shatter, +1 Memory Plunder. Flip Banshee to Tar Fiend if Fiend isn't maindeck.

Against RDW:
-3 Stillmoon, +3 Bottle Gnomes. Consider Tar Fiend over Banshee. I need to test that.

Against tokens/ww/elves/zoo:
Consider the build and add in Infest. You can probably toss Unmake here as terror does the job just fine for cheaper.

Against chameleon colossus/oversoul:
Get in 4 Fleshbags. I'd suggest -3 Unmake, -1 Corrupt. Keep Midnight Banshee and Beacon in. If you get an Oversoul killed having one of your own is delicious. Banshee hands out -1/-1 to these guys and makes them easily raced by Corrupt.

I don't have any other testing/knowledge to share right now. Hope this helps.

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Lands-23
19 Swamp
4 Mutavault

Creatures-17
4 Stillmoon Cavalier
4 Demigod of Revenge
3 Viscera Dragger
3 Dusk Urchins
3 Shriekmaw
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae

Spells-19
4 Thoughtseize
4 Bitterblossom
3 Unmake
3 Profane Command
3 Beseech the Queen
2 Loxodon Warhammer

SB
4 Meta-Slots
4 Infest
4 Terror
3 Relic of Progenitus

With Beseech being ran, i dont think dusk really matters anymore, his slot could be Gouger gives aggro some trouble, or could become something else.

Side Note: scratch this list, i like Niche's lol.
*slaps own forehead* Bottle Gnomes! Hehehe... with 6 reanimation spells and 3-4 gnomes in the board, RDW and possibly WW/Kith is screwed.

EDIT: updated my list. Lets try and streamline a toolbox method, so that I can stick one into the OP. Niche, I'll let you handle that.

Making this thread made me realise how huge our relevant cardpool is, and how versatile this archtype can be, but you HAVE to build around your meta. Like Running Mind Shatter, Pithing Needle, Relic, or not. MDing Infest or not.

I'm keeping Urchins over Beseech because my list will be running Mannequin. It's not reanimator. It's just a good card. EVEN URCHINS makes a good surprise blocker against WW/Kith or ANYTHING WITH WITHER
I used to play Mono B control, and I had some success with a Terramorphic Expanse/Crucible of Worlds engine. Powered out Corrupts like no one's business. I'd say 4 Terramorphic Expanse + 2 of the appropriate Panoramas would be good if you take that path. Springjack Pasture also seems to have a place in the deck, though I've never tried it in MBC.

Steel Golem is another card I've used, nice as an early blocker(nowhere near as good as Phyrexian Ironfoot though =/).

Also, I'd recommend Deathmark for the SB.
I used to play Mono B control, and I had some success with a Terramorphic Expanse/Crucible of Worlds engine. Powered out Corrupts like no one's business. I'd say 4 Terramorphic Expanse + 2 of the appropriate Panoramas would be good if you take that path. Springjack Pasture also seems to have a place in the deck, though I've never tried it in MBC.

Steel Golem is another card I've used, nice as an early blocker(nowhere near as good as Phyrexian Ironfoot though =/).

Also, I'd recommend Deathmark for the SB.

That's a neat idea. I think a crucilbe build would have to run 3 raven's crime, 2 syphon soul, 3 cucible, and 3 terramorphic. And that should be good. But I don't know if I want to impliment that.

I think Steel Golem could END Kithkin. But when it dies, here comes the flood. So I don't know; I'm not sold. Good idea, though.

The reason I run Terror in the SB is for instant-ness: it's for Fae and RDW, because haste, and Fae-Walk, are both annoying. But I will update the OP to include Deathmark as a SB option.
I never got why this deck is called a control deck. It's aggro. It just runs thoughtsiezes and some removal, but still aggro.
I never got why this deck is called a control deck. It's aggro. It just runs thoughtsiezes and some removal, but still aggro.

Stop right there, sleeve it up, and play it before you say anything else along those lines. That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard.

Additionally, this discussion already took place on an MBC thread. It changed nothing, meant nothing, and the thought was turned down by pretty well everybody.
Stop right there, sleeve it up, and play it before you say anything else along those lines. That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard.

Additionally, this discussion already took place on an MBC thread. It changed nothing, meant nothing, and the thought was turned down by pretty well everybody.

Brilliant argument genius.

I've played it before, well pre-rotation I did. This deck lacks many things a control deck usually runs on, like card advantage, though that is primarily blue. It has control elements, but not much more than what a aggro deck would run.
Well I guess I would call it midrange before aggro. And Mono Black Midrange doesn't have a ring to it.
It's not that different from RDW or Blightning and that is still considered aggro/midrange. Even some match-up say to outrace control, which is what non control decks do.

I'm not trying to change anything, I'm just saying this doesn't really classify as control. I guess it would be more controlling if Damnation was still in standard because it's so much better than infest.
I guess people classify decks differently. There are people who call Fae control and some who get all pissy and claim it's a tempo deck, which a lot of other people doesn't even consider a classification because it's more of a theory of magic that is used in about every deck.
That's a neat idea. I think a crucilbe build would have to run 3 raven's crime, 2 syphon soul, 3 cucible, and 3 terramorphic. And that should be good. But I don't know if I want to impliment that.

There lies a contradiction; you're playing out lands with Terramorphic Expanse/Crucible of Worlds, but you're also wanting to discard them for Raven's Crime.
Brilliant argument genius.

I've played it before, well pre-rotation I did. This deck lacks many things a control deck usually runs on, like card advantage, though that is primarily blue. It has control elements, but not much more than what a aggro deck would run.
Well I guess I would call it midrange before aggro. And Mono Black Midrange doesn't have a ring to it.
It's not that different from RDW or Blightning and that is still considered aggro/midrange. Even some match-up say to outrace control, which is what non control decks do.

I'm not trying to change anything, I'm just saying this doesn't really classify as control. I guess it would be more controlling if Damnation was still in standard because it's so much better than infest.
I guess people classify decks differently. There are people who call Fae control and some who get all pissy and claim it's a tempo deck, which a lot of other people doesn't even consider a classification because it's more of a theory of magic that is used in about every deck.

Well, it's fair enough that you see it this way. "Outracing control"? I could swear I said "outrun" them, as in beat them through resiliency. That's what I've been doing.

I call it a control deck because it controls board position and the hand, to an extent. And there is a lot more CA than what lies at the surface. It isn't really direct card draw, but it lies in gaining advantage through recurring effects that stabalize your board position.

At least we can agree that this deck wishes it had Damnation :p

but realistically speaking, this deck is by no means aggro. I can see a midrange tag being taped to its forehead, but really, the speed that the deck plays, and is capable of playing at, seems to differ with each game, depending on the match-up, so call it what you want.

I don't really want to argue about this. Everyone who looks at the thread and the list will see that, for the most part, it plays like a control deck. Which is true. So leave it at that.

Control can't only be left to decks with counters, draw, sweepers, and 2 wincons.

EDIT: @ TimeFlip -- And here lies the reason that I don't really want to run it.
4* ravents crime
4* pulling teeth
4* infest
4* demigod
4* fleshbag
4* revive the fallen
4* nyx (new conflux card)
4* rats (ravenous or rotten - conflux)
4* dusk urchins

control and hit hard i'd say!

thats how id play it :P ... if u put in thogtsize, i d recommend u put corrupt in, if i go retrace than i dont throw in land countings cards like corrupt or profane.... sideboard would be terror or unmake (non black flash creatures - cloudthrasher), memmory plunder (against control-use that cryptic against em!), relic of progentsis (graveyard activated cards- demigod of revenge? bye bye!) or trip noose (to tap those end game big creatures that annoy u), and stillmoon (only anti white black has!)
I've ALWAYS played Crucible expanse in MBC, since it's so strong, thinning your library to improve your draws, and even more crucially, reusing Mutavault to constantly hold of "Pro Black" threats until you find an answer.

Also, any MBC deck should play Sceptre of fugue to help against blue based control decks, which are the decks major bad match up generally.

I must say though, whilst Korlash was our friend, Damnation and Tendrils of Corruption were our lovers.... :'(

Anyhow, I will write a new list soon after I finish making another thread.
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Brilliant argument genius.

I've played it before, well pre-rotation I did. This deck lacks many things a control deck usually runs on, like card advantage, though that is primarily blue. It has control elements, but not much more than what a aggro deck would run.
Well I guess I would call it midrange before aggro. And Mono Black Midrange doesn't have a ring to it.
It's not that different from RDW or Blightning and that is still considered aggro/midrange. Even some match-up say to outrace control, which is what non control decks do.

I'm not trying to change anything, I'm just saying this doesn't really classify as control. I guess it would be more controlling if Damnation was still in standard because it's so much better than infest.
I guess people classify decks differently. There are people who call Fae control and some who get all pissy and claim it's a tempo deck, which a lot of other people doesn't even consider a classification because it's more of a theory of magic that is used in about every deck.

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Banshee, in all fairness your list isn't much different from a Demigod Black list. The difference being that when you shuffle up your MBC list you put on a different hat to play it. When you put on your Demigod Black hat you play aggro, MBC means you play lands and pass the turn. The cards are largely the same.

This is the control list, no one can argue that this list is mid-range or aggro:

// Lands
21 [CHK] Swamp (2)
3 [10E] Terramorphic Expanse

// Creatures
4 [ALA] Viscera Dragger
2 [LRW] Liliana Vess
4 [10E] Steel Golem

// Spells
3 [EVE] Unmake
3 [SHM] Corrupt
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [LRW] Profane Command
3 [10E] Mind Stone
1 [10E] Loxodon Warhammer
1 [10E] Beacon of Unrest
4 [MOR] Bitterblossom
4 [10E] Terror

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [10E] Bottle Gnomes
SB: 3 [EVE] Stillmoon Cavalier
SB: 1 [MOR] Mind Shatter
SB: 1 [SHM] Midnight Banshee
SB: 3 [ALA] Fleshbag Marauder
SB: 4 [ALA] Infest

BTW, TimeFlip. I love Steel Golem. Thanks for reminding me.

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// Lands
25 [P2] Swamp (2)

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Dusk Urchins
4 [LRW] Shriekmaw
2 [SHM] Oona, Queen of the Fae
3 [EVE] Ashling, the Extinguisher
4 [SHM] Demigod of Revenge

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [MOR] Bitterblossom
4 [REW] Terror
2 [LRW] Makeshift Mannequin
4 [SHM] Corrupt

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [10E] Cruel Edict
SB: 4 [10E] Deathmark
SB: 3 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 4 [ALA] Infest


Just thought i'd throw up this list
// Lands
25 [P2] Swamp (2)

// Creatures
4 [SHM] Dusk Urchins
4 [LRW] Shriekmaw
2 [SHM] Oona, Queen of the Fae
3 [EVE] Ashling, the Extinguisher
4 [SHM] Demigod of Revenge

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [MOR] Bitterblossom
4 [REW] Terror
2 [LRW] Makeshift Mannequin
4 [SHM] Corrupt

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [10E] Cruel Edict
SB: 4 [10E] Deathmark
SB: 3 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 4 [ALA] Infest


Just thought i'd throw up this list

This list has a curve to its creatures... with enough mana to support Corrupt. I'd call it a Demiblack deck, not MBControl. Check the Tournament Center for Demigod Black, I'm sure you've seen it.

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Well in all fairness, Niche, what would you say if I posted this in your Demigod Black thread? We'd gone through that with other posters - and you know this. The cards may be similar, but the playstyle is totally off. Small changes like adding Stillmoons and Corrupts largely changes how the deck plays.

I feel that this playstyle is different, despite the similarities, and to keep the decklists focused, and spearate, we'll get more, better, and on-key suggestions.

Like I said earlier in the thread: Stick any name tag you want on this. But it is what it is, it plays how it plays, and my point is that it wins.


Now can we get off the "it's not MBC" bandwagon here? It's boring.
Well in all fairness, Niche, what would you say if I posted this in your Demigod Black thread? We'd gone through that with other posters - and you know this. The cards may be similar, but the playstyle is totally off. Small changes like adding Stillmoons and Corrupts largely changes how the deck plays.

I feel that this playstyle is different, despite the similarities, and to keep the decklists focused, and spearate, we'll get more, better, and on-key suggestions.

Like I said earlier in the thread: Stick any name tag you want on this. But it is what it is, it plays how it plays, and my point is that it wins.


Now can we get off the "it's not MBC" bandwagon here? It's boring.

We need more CA, I think the best way of doing that is the Retrace draw, where every card is a spell, either an actual spell, or pitch for reatrace, loop with crucible FTW.....
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We need more CA, I think the best way of doing that is the Retrace draw, where every card is a spell, either an actual spell, or pitch for reatrace, loop with crucible FTW.....

I'd play it if I had enough space, and if I found making them discard one card of their choice meant something. As it stands, though, it really feels like Raven's Crime just sucks unless you Retrace it a couple times -- and losing the land drops isn't that great in this deck.

Raven's Crime is a more aggressive card, I think. I think Syphon Mind > Raven's Crime in control.

They really should have printed a 1 Terror with retrace at uncommon. You know, make ONE of the spells with that mechanic playable?
I wouldn't say it's true MBC. More like the best we can manage in the current meta. But I'll take half a loaf over no loaf.
I wouldn't say it's true MBC. More like the best we can manage in the current meta. But I'll take half a loaf over no loaf.

It controls the board, and it wins. That's why I made the thread, and that's why I named it MBC.

Anyone interested in making a banner?
Any thoughts on Wretched Banquet? It can sometimes be a 1-mana edict effect, although I realize that often it won't hit what you want it to.

Also, what do you guys think is the graveyard hate of choice? Relic of Progenitus, Shadowfeed, Beckon Apparition, or something else? I'm thinking that Shadowfeed seems to be helpful vs. RDW and at the same time it takes care of cards sitting in the GY.

Finally, I have a rather noobish question about Crucible of Worlds and retrace. The strength of the combo lies in the idea that you can re-play the lands you pitch to retrace, correct? Just wanted to confirm that you can't "discard" lands already in the graveyard to reuse retrace.

btw, I'm very happy to see this archetype discussion coming back!
Any thoughts on Wretched Banquet? It can sometimes be a 1-mana edict effect, although I realize that often it won't hit what you want it to.

Also, what do you guys think is the graveyard hate of choice? Relic of Progenitus, Shadowfeed, Beckon Apparition, or something else? I'm thinking that Shadowfeed seems to be helpful vs. RDW and at the same time it takes care of cards sitting in the GY.

Finally, I have a rather noobish question about Crucible of Worlds and retrace. The strength of the combo lies in the idea that you can re-play the lands you pitch to retrace, correct? Just wanted to confirm that you can't "discard" lands already in the graveyard to reuse retrace.

btw, I'm very happy to see this archetype discussion coming back!

Beckon Apparition is better in more aggressive, or B/W Mimic decks. That is ruled out here.

Between Shadowfeed and Relic, it's a meta call. I suppose I should point that out. Shadowfeed is better against 1-shot reanimation, and demigod, and red (with demigod). Relic is better against Lark.

EDIT: and yea, Crucible is good so that every land you draw is a discard spell AND STILL a land drop. Another big aspect of Crucible is being able to bring back Terramorphic Expanse to pull the lands out of your deck so that you don't draw them.
Well, FNM went terrible ALL to the account of mana screw. Like, hardcore. 8 games. Flood, short, everything.

BUT the games where my mana was on, the deck was AMAZING. Like, brutal. Beat Fae. Beat some Bant deck. Nearly beat 5cc, but was manascrewed. Coulda beat Boat Brew, but was manascrewed. Lost to mono-green elves because of Mana Screw, 1 play error, and their REALLY good hands.

This deck has serisous potential. I will bring it tomorrow and just test it some.

EDIT: Makeshift Mannequin was amazing on ALL accounts. Brutal with Shriekmaw. Brutal with Fleshbag. Brutal with Stillmoon. Brutal with Demigod. Didn't get a hit on Oona or Urchins, but we'll wait and see with them.

I like the Urchins, but I might be taking them out for more removal. I'm thinking:

-3 urchins, +1 unmake, +2 Fleshbag

Sideboard:
-1 Fleshbag, +1 shriekmaw, bottle gnomes, dragger, or corrupt
The OP has Syphon Soul listed instead of Syphon Life.
Woah, Raedien, haven't seen you around for a long time (remember, Eclipse?)

Yea, I'll fix that. Lol, too many syphons.
Well in all fairness, Niche, what would you say if I posted this in your Demigod Black thread? We'd gone through that with other posters - and you know this. The cards may be similar, but the playstyle is totally off. Small changes like adding Stillmoons and Corrupts largely changes how the deck plays.

I feel that this playstyle is different, despite the similarities, and to keep the decklists focused, and spearate, we'll get more, better, and on-key suggestions.

Like I said earlier in the thread: Stick any name tag you want on this. But it is what it is, it plays how it plays, and my point is that it wins.


Now can we get off the "it's not MBC" bandwagon here? It's boring.

Its ok, you can call my by name. I know you despise me :D

Seriously though thank you for putting up a new MBC thread I guess. Ill make a list after I look over conflux, I had a few ideas that could work.
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Woah, Raedien, haven't seen you around for a long time (remember, Eclipse?)

Yea, I'll fix that. Lol, too many syphons.

I know right? haha

I've been busy, I was playing MTG abroad in Korea while studying and now I'm in the thick of my graduating year. Conflux is pullin' me in ever so slightly though so here I am!
@CageofPancakes -- I wan't referring to you. I don't mind when you're around.

@Raedien -- Well, welcome back, buddy Good to see ya.
@CageofPancakes -- I wan't referring to you. I don't mind when you're around.

@Raedien -- Well, welcome back, buddy Good to see ya.

Well thank you! Ill put together a list later because I saw a few things I could totally abuse.

Really havnt went through conflux yet so Ill hold back my opinion on MBC until I really go over the list.
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Well thank you! Ill put together a list later because I saw a few things I could totally abuse.

Really havnt went through conflux yet so Ill hold back my opinion on MBC until I really go over the list.

My list in the OP, and the card choices, is post conflux. Like how there is nothing from Conflux here yet? Cuz Conflux's black sucks except for Nyxie, which is a more midrange card, but definately playable, perhaps in Niche's MBC.
My list in the OP, and the card choices, is post conflux. Like how there is nothing from Conflux here yet? Cuz Conflux's black sucks except for Nyxie, which is a more midrange card, but definately playable, perhaps in Niche's MBC.

No room in my list for Nyaxthid.

Here's the link to my last list:
Niche's MBC

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No room in my list for Nyaxthid.

Here's the link to my last list:
Niche's MBC

SH!T I meant Demigod Black. Sorry about that misunderstanding. Your MBC is completely along different lines, and probably warrents testing.
SH!T I meant Demigod Black. Sorry about that misunderstanding. Your MBC is completely along different lines, and probably warrents testing.

To be honest it warrants some more creatures, So many better creatures you could be playing. (This directed at niches list)
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