[/b] So what is White Weenie? White Weenie (usually abbreviated to just WW) is one of the classic archetypes, the "ultimate" ultimate in monocolor aggro. WW employs creatures that are the most efficient for their cost, the best suited to not only dealing the most damage for their cost, but surviving to do it again. The typical strategy against WW is to sweep the board, often with a Wrath of God, but over the years WW has shown a reslience to such sweepers, and now the deck has several strategies it employs to negate the effects of those strategies. You'll also get helpful hints at making your own deck using the clues in there. This thread is designed to be the place where you discuss your deck idea, deck lists others have posted, and card choices and such. Don't be shy, but don't be rude. But for now, let's introduce you to THIS deck:
#1 Wed Jan 21, 2009 - 7:27pm
ShowAs you see in the link above, there are three basic types of WW, depending on your taste. However, some have recently fallen out of favor with the introduction of Alara to the meta. While Kithkin-oriented aggro is still prominent, and Mirrormaster wins still inevitable, the current WW builds have favored the third of our archetypes or shifted colors to or for various reasons. I will list these three, but currently the most prominent deck types are straight up Superweenie. Kithkin WW is a tribal-oriented deck designed around the synergies among all of your little Kithkin from Lorwyn and Shadowmoor blocks. While most of your chard choices are from those two blocks, and maybe a few pieces from the Core Set, this deck can be built for Standard with the inclusion of a couple of other card helpers.
The nature of WW as a deck to play requires a lot of turning cards sideways and use of the red zone. It is an aggro deck. Moreover, it is a dedicated aggro deck, meaning that the POINT of your deck is sending creatures into the red zone; it doesn't have spells to back up the attacker by shooting the opponent, like burn decks do, and you creatures are liable to be removed by a small (but heavily played) number of cards known as "sweepers". If this is not the style of deck you'd like to play, I suggest you try out variants such as GW Aggro, LFW, Little Kid, etc. Those decks are midrange, sport fewer but more resilient creatures, and more point-and-click removal cards to back them up. Those decks are designed to keep their creatures alive throughout the game. However, they lack a capability WW has: The ability to have your creatures swing, and survive combat. Because of this, WW is the deck of choice for players who like the red zone, rather than just dealing damage to their opponent. It can also win in four turns, before you opponent has much time to react, and with as few as four creatures (one each turn).
Sample ListMirrormaster is a more combo-oriented deck with the advantage of being able to drop tokens left and right, swing overhead with fliers, and drop a pump creature end of turn, then turn your field into that pumper, making each creature exponentially large. Like Kithkin WW, this deck can win quickly, decisively, but also become engaged in a long, drawn-out campaign.
Creatures 4 x Figure of Destiny 3 x Burrenton Forge-Tender 4 x Goldmeadow Stalwart 1 x Goldmeadow Harrier 4 x Wizened Cenn 4 x Knight of Meadowgrain 2 x Cloudgoat Ranger 2 x Ranger of Eos Spells 4 x Spectral Procession 2 x Glorious Anthem 4 x Unmake 2 x Ajani Goldmane Lands 4 x Windbrisk Heights 4 x Rustic Clachan 16 x Plains [deck=Sideboard] 4 x Stillmoon Cavalier 2 x Elvish Hexhunter 4 x Oblivion Ring 1 x Ranger of Eos 1 x Cloudgoat Ranger 1 x Burrenton Forge-Tender 2 x Reveillark[/deck]
Sample ListSuperweenie is a collection of the best Kithkin and Bant weenie creatures from Shards of Alara, and combines the creature pumping advantages of the twin strategies of Goldmeadow Stalwart + Wizened Cenn and Akrasan Squire + Sigiled Paladin to enable 3 damage from a single creature on turn 2. This deck runs more creatures than the others, but runs cheaper ones, and may be considered the most consistently fastest version.
[deck=William Madsen, 4th Pl, Ohio, US Regionals] Creatures 24 4 x Cloudgoat Ranger 4 x Goldmeadow Harrier 4 x Goldmeadow Stalwart 4 x Knight of Meadowgrain 4 x Thistledown Liege 4 x Wizened Cenn Spells 11 4 x Mana Tithe 3 x Mirrorweave 4 x Spectral Procession Land 25 1 x Mutavault 16 x Plains 4 x Rustic Clachan 4 x Windbrisk Heights SB 4 x Burrenton Forge-Tender 2 x Oblivion Ring 3 x Pollen Lullaby 3 x Sunlance 3 x Wispmare[/deck]
Sample ListsThere is much confusion as to the use of this mechanic, and the technique to use is part of this confusion. On the one hand, the mechanic asks you to do something that normally WW wouldn't do: Swing with only one creature. This is not only antithetic to your overall premise of swinging for the fences each turn, but it's also easier to chump one creature than five. On the other hand, Exalted gives you a bonus you might not otherwise have should you swing with just a single creature.
[deck=Momo's Superweenie] Lands 20 x Plains 3 x Windbrisk Heights Creatures 4 x Akrasan Squire 4 x Burrenton Forge-Tender 4 x Figure of Destiny 4 x Sigiled Paladin 4 x Knight of the White Orchid 3 x Ranger of Eos 3 x Ajani Goldmane 3 x Reveillark[/c] Spells 4 x Oblivion Ring 4 x Spectral Procession [deck=Sideboard] 4 x Runed Halo 4 x Stillmoon Cavalier 3 x Knight-Captain of Eos 4 x Cloudgoat Ranger[/deck][/deck] [deck=l3loodl2aven's Superweenie] 19 x Plains 2 x Mutavault ------------- 4 x Akrasan Squire 4 x Figure of Destiny 4 x Burrenton Forge-Tender 3 x Goldmeadow Harrier 4 x Sigiled Paladin 4 x Knight of the White Orchard 3 x Ranger of Eos 4 x Knight of Meadowgrain ---------------------------- 3 x Ajani Goldmane 3 x Spectral Procession 3 x Excomunicate [deck=Sideboard] 4 x Stillmoon Cavalier 3 x Loxodon Warhammer 2 x Evlish Hexhunter 3 x Prison Term 3 x Unmake[/deck][/deck]
ShowIt is becoming more fancied that now that the Standard environment is centering around aggressive, creature based decks and defensive, controlling but also creature based decks, a sweeper is preferred to remove the opposition. This has automatically favored perennial favorite Wrath of God in a position to be used in WW. This is a formal response to this urge.
So what are the cons about Exalted? First, it promotes the impression that you have to put your eggs all in one basket. A single creature is not only easier to block, it's easier to kill. Second, you're not attacking with your other creatures, and you're going to be reducing your overall damage each turn. But there are some bonuses to Exalted, as well. 1, Exalted gives a pump and sometimes an extra ability to that singular attacker. 2, the creatures that do not attack that turn stand as a defensive guard. 3, normally, you'd only want to swing with creatures that you can ensure get through the defenses your opponent has put up, or doing so with a bunch of creatures allows your opponent to pick and choose blockers and he can more easily take them out of commission this way. Exalted requires tricky playing when used, so there are some rules of thumb that may be followed, and if you use these, you may come to some interesting results. A -- Exalted adds on a little extra damage to a single creature. Because of this, the first attacker of the game will be bigger than you'd normally have gotten, and without the extra mana required of other decks. For example, WW typically can swing for 2 on turn 2 with a Goldmeadow Stalwart, but with a Wizened Cenn, this jumps to 3 damage; however, you only get 4 Stalwarts and 4 Cenns out of 60, and per game, you may only see between 0-2 of each, so insuring your opening hand an first draw are consistent, the possibility of landing this particular combo is low. Thus, use of some cards like Akrasan Squire or Sigiled Paladin, both first turn or second, can result in a similar attack, and because you run these, your chances of dealing 3 damage on your first attack turn 2 more than doubles, it can triple as you can use three Akrasan Squire, although this is incredibly rare by turn 2. B -- Attack with as many creatures as maximizes your damage output, but be wary of the ability to block. For Exalted, this means if you could swing with 4 damage turn 3 with one creature, but also for 4 with two creatures, you should choose that which is least likely to give your opponent an way out. If you could hit for five for sure turn three, and kill any possible blocker without risking one of your guys, but you have to do this with just one attacker, go for it. Never miss an alpha strike, and never forgo swinging with the team just because you have a guy with exalted. One of the biggest misconceptions about Exalted is that you HAVE to attack with just one guy. We are fortunate that the two Exalted guys mentioned above are very strong for what they do, both offensively and defensively, that their use is always a net positive. C -- WW is known for stalling on gas in the mid to late game, essentially living on the top of its deck searching for answers or threats. This is because WW in general promoted overextending to acheive board position, essentially having the best field of the game. To counteract this, of late players have been wise to play fewer threats each turn to hold into their hand back up removal, beaters, and pump, just in case. But this leads to weaker boards, even if they are more survivable. The desire is then to acheive a superior board early, while maintain a strong and survivable team. Exalted does this by maximizing damage per creature when it is neccessary, but also because if you have just one creature, it stretches a little extra damage across the field that would not have been possible otherwise. D -- Late in the game, WW usually faces a swept board, clean of its creatures, and as such development is slow. As with "C" above, development of the board position and maintenance of it is often dependant on the ability for the cards you possess to give as much as they can while retaining superiority, rather than trading 1 for 1. You want your creatures to survive, and this means when they can, if they can, they should be able to attack for the most and still take a hit and be able to swing again next turn. And you have to do this on one creature as you redevelop. Note that in some cases, you opponents will be aiming what they can at your lone beater, determined to control the board state. A single creature at this point, any creature, will be a massive threat you must maintain, and that means being able to drop pump creatures that double duty as blockers, attackers. Unfortunately, Wizened Cenn is a poor blocker, and people are loathe to throw her away because she enables an aggressive strategy. Her loss is your opponents' gain. Thus, oddly enough, your few beaters need to be expendable, but at the same time able to swing the game state the same way. Once again, Exalted provides an outlet for this strategy. In short, don't swing all out, don't only ever swing with just one creature, and use the best beaters early. During redevelopment, repeat this process as though it were the start of the game, and make sure you maintain steam.
Running Sweepers(Thanks go to Hodoku for the dividers, and midwest-lunatic who created the banner image, and made available for the other WW threads. Thanks also go out to the_dead, billybob8356, and lorddotm, who previously ran WW threads and contributed to the discussions and material involved here. Some (actually, a lot) of the text was derived from the theoretics thread I developed here, from which so many people helped that it is impossible to name them even close to comprehensively -- this is a blanket thank you to everyone in the boards involved in the discussions, with a focus thanks to l3loodl2aven, Momo, billybob, lorddotm, avenged_sixfold, ownage, spooky_doom, ironmagus ... and I know a lot more people unnamed. Don't even THINK that I forgot to name you!)
Wrath of God (WoG, for short) and its variants (or WoGs) are a common strategy for decks that need answers to creature decks, and are especially common as answers to WW. But the current slew of decks in standard includes Heritage Druid-fueled Elf decks, token-swarming Jund Ramp decks, wall and dragon fielding five-color control decks, and token-swarming hand-control decks, as well as the traditional opponents, white weenies and red weenies. Oh, there's also Faeries ... still, which fields growing numbers of token and nontoken flying bugs. These decks beg the response: What do I use to stop these decks? Normally, WW's answer is to speed up, to race, but this has left it weak to countermagic, since to race is to curve out, leaving little mana open to bait counters or pay for Broken Ambitions; the latest in a field of options has been to include any of a variety of WoGs, from Wrath itself to Martial Coup. There are many reasons to favor their use, as well as discount the idea of using them in the first place. 1. WoGs are counter-intuitive to WW's strategy: they destroy all creatures, and more over, they destroy YOUR creatures. [Negative] 2. WoGs destroy your opponent's creatures, when you are clearly behind in the game, creating card advantage by destroying more of their permanents than you will of yours. Moreover, it can destroy your opponent's tempo, or resetting the pace of the game. [Positive] 3. When you WoG, your opponent gets the next first step, unless you can field something AFTER the sweep, or as a consequence of it. Some aggressive decks, therefore, can make use of Kirtar's Wrath, since in a long game it can replace itself by itself, while Martial Coup will always give you tokens, even if you destroy no creatures with it. [Positive and Negative] 4. Even when you establish board superiority, and field creatures, you opponent still gets the next step, in being able to WoG on his/her own, and therefore establish that you have lost your field with no benefit. Perhaps you will look at this and think "I have made him Wrath me, so that's one less in his hand," but this is not a positive answer. You should NOT be negatively affected by the sweep in the first place playing an intense aggro deck.[Negative] Now, I have won twice as many games as I have lost with my various WW builds over the years, but this doesn't mean I have won twice as many matches as I have lost, and in many of these matches, it has come down not to weenie rushes, but to WoGs or similar effects. This has taught me four lessons: 1) Do NOT over-extend by dropping creatures continuously just because you can, as you let yourself lose by feeding your opponent your best creatures [trust me, he/she will enjoy eating them]; 2) Hold on to several creatures as the game progresses, even if it's clear your opponent cannot beat you, since he may draw a trump and sweep your field in any of a variety of ways, including ways you cannot anticipate [if this means you win a turn later than you could if you'd dropped that creature earlier, don't worry, you still won and you played the better for it]; 3) Hold onto your own trumps for when you need them, and this means holding your BEST creatures for the end game, when it is time to push into your opponent with unstoppable weenie; and finally, 4) Don't be afraid to drop what can be your BEST early beater -- almost invariably Knight of Meadowgrain -- in order to force your opponent to sweep you, as this takes that card out early and you lose essentially little [I call this "forcing a Wrath", and just like baiting counters, it is an important tactic for WW]. These lessons are important for assessing the value of each WoG you will face, and if you need to use one, or want to, you can correctly evaluate its impact in the environment you wish to play it in. As such, one of the best WoG variants printed so far is Martial Coup, and it is by far one of the best ways for you to sweep where you will lose your own creatures. This is because even in a bad situation, you can get 3-4 tokens to swing with, block with, or even more and take out your opponent's creatures. That is, it can produce card advantage by replacing itself 5+ times over. (And just for fun, Kinsbaile Borderguard + Martial Coup makes a whole lot of little buggers.)