[General Discussion]Sligh

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What is Sligh?

Sligh, By Skankhair
Basic Info: Sligh is a mono-Red aggro deck that runs weenies like Jackal Pup, and Mogg Fanatic, as well as burn such as Lightning Bolt, and Incinerate. The typical Sligh ratio is around 20 land, 20 creatures, and 20 other spells. The burn is generally used to kill blockers so the attacking creatures get through, then is aimed at the other player to finish them off. Sligh's burn gives it an advantage against control decks which have lots of ways to deal with creatures, since it gives Sligh a way to win without attacking. However, it makes it slightly weaker against other aggro decks because other aggro decks tend to have a better creature-base. Sligh has long been a bane of control decks, but is also run over by more creature-oriented aggro decks, and has few ways to deal with combo decks. Sligh was one of the first decks to use the concept of a mana curve to maximize threats and damage. In Sligh's early days, some people thought it was a bad deck full of bad cards that got lucky and won sometimes. Some thought it was a deck full of bad cards that somehow worked together and won. Today, we understand that the math behind the deck is what made it work- the mana curve. Sligh got its name from Paul Sligh who used the deck in a PTQ in 1996. He didn't design the deck, but he popularized it. During the Tempest-era, Sligh was a popular deck and for several years it won quite a bit. It remains a viable deck, or at least a viable idea, in several formats. It is no longer viable in Type 1, but it's spirit lives on in Type 1.5, Extended, and Type 2. 
 
How does Sligh play? The concept is rather simple. Play a creature, burn away blockers, attack, when opponent is low enough burn them. Control the board with burn and amass your cheap efficent creatures attacking for the win. 
Why should I play Sligh? In a meta full of control decks, it's good to have the bane of control decks at your side, sleeved up and ready for action. If you like having a versatile aggro oriented deck then Sligh is definitely something to look into. But Sligh isn't for everyone. If you want to to use your play set of Demigods look else where. Ideally, you're piloting this deck because you plan to have won or be an Incinerate away from winning by the time you or anyone else could even play a Demigod. 
Why does it work? This works due to the design, following the curve and the rules on your choices. Knowing when to stretch the rules and make acceptions can mean the difference between a good sligh deck and a great sligh deck. 
rules:

Big 4
 
1)you arent making a deck around a card. you are putting a card that will work in a spot in the deck. The deck is important, the card isnt. 
2)a creature with defender cant attack, skred cant win you the game, cantrips for cantrip sake wont help you reach your goal. 
3)Pyroclasm takes out 2-3 creatures when it is used= card advantage, a few of these can be good to use, 
4)every card needs to be good if it's the only card you draw (topdeck) and the only non land in play. synergy is nice, as long as the cards are playable on their own.
curve
THE CURVE 
One-drops: 9-13 
Two-drops: 6-8 
Three drops: 3-6 
Four-drops: 0-3 
X burn/removal: 0-4 
land destruction: 0-4 
Low cc/staple burn spells: 8-16 
Splash(man) land: 0-9 
Mana sources: 11-20 

A drop means the casting cost and turn you would most prefer to play the creature.
Guide to fill in the curve
 
1 mana creatures need to be a 1/1 with an ability to do extra damage or create card advantage or larger then 1/x. If not dealt with these creatures need to be able to eventually kill your opponent all by themselves. 
2 mana creatures need to be 2/x or better or have a significant reason you are using them (such as the ability to get big) 
3 mana creatures need to be ending the game quickly if not dealt with 
4 mana creatures need to end the game within the next turn. 

Burn: always needs to be able to hit a creature, this is important. damage > CC is nice, but sometimes it's also useful to have other abilities. they need to not be combo dependant or rely on more cards in hand and need not give your opponent options. 

Splash(man) lands: basicly this encompases the use of dual color lands to splash another color (not usually suggested for Sligh but some say todays environment calls for it), or turns into a creature and hits your opponent.
 

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Sligh Cards (will update eventually):

Creatures:

0cc
Memnite : very basic, 1/1.  But it costs you nothing, and if you're looking for metalcraft, these guys can do it.

1cc
Goblin Arsonist : Neo-Fanatic.  If only he had the ability to pay to destroy him..
Spikeshot Elder : I love this guy.  A goblin that can ping without needing to tap.  A nice late game mana sink.
Grim Lavamancer : Our good old friend is back.  We have out late game back up / reach.  Staple 3-of.
Goblin Fireslinger : not a bad player pinger.  Has a releavent creature type for some nice tribal beatings.
Furnace Scamp : kind of a walking burn spell really
Forge Devil : pretty deck VS weenies.  CA is always good, and he's pretty close to a Mogg Fanatic.
Stromkirk Noble : Best 1 drop in the format right now for us.  A nice 1/1 with a nice ability to get bigger, as long as he crosses the redzone.
Reckless Waif : I originally was going to skip the werewolves, but since most 1 drops for us are 1/1, he Waif gets in.  The 3/2 body is a nice one to attack with early game.

2cc
Torch Fiend : 2/1 for 2 and fights artifacts (SoWaP).  Maindeck able since 2 drops are looking a little sparce
Tunnel Ignus : tech VS Fetch lands, probably best for the SB.
Goblin Wardriver : at worst, this guy is a bear but he has a relevant creature type for Red Aggro (Goblin) and Battle Cry makes the rest of the team really start to add up extra damage.  Good support beater, and if going for tribal synergy the +1 power bonuses really start to add up over all.
Crimson Mage : I love this mage.  a basic 2/1 for 2, and can hastify anything just by adding 1 to their mana cost.  Nice for adding a bit of speed to your game plan.
Stormblood Berserker : a weak 1/1 for 2 that becomes an impressive 3/3 if you draw blood before hand.  I really want to try a bloodthirst Sligh build, but focusing on it could be a bad idea.
Ashmouth Hound : a fun toy creature who I think has a niche

3cc
Goblin Chieftain : solid creature for goblin builds, boost team + haste is always good
Vulshok Replica : a 3/1 for 3 that turns into an Incinerate before he dies, he only can dome the face though, not that thats a bad thing.
Chandra's Phoenix : THEE 3-drop for Red Aggro.  Haste, evasion, recursion.  It's no Boggart Ram-Gang, but it works.
Blood Ogre : a fair 2/2 firststriker for 3 that's a 3/3 if you draw blood.  Not a bad deal.
Kruin Outlaw : another card I was going to pass over, but I think a 2/2 first strike is ok on her own, and a 3/3 double striker evasive beater is a nice bonus every once in a while.

4cc
Molten-Tail Masticore : a 4/4 for 4 that eats a card every turn, but turns "dead" creatures into 4 points of colorless damage for 4 mana, and he regens for 2 mana.  Nice finisher.
Hero of Oxid Ridge : 4 haste power for 4.  This butts a little low, but he turns off chump blockers and Battle Cry helps to punish the other player for not having enough blockers.  Good finisher.
Hellrider : probably the best 4 drop out there.  3/3 body with an ability to garentee damage gets through, and did I mention Haste?

Spells:

1cc
Shock : "standard" for 1 cmc burn.
Galvanic Blast : Shock, only if you hit metalcraft, you have an instant Flame Slash that can dome the opponent.
Gut Shot : MIGHT be good if you're hard up to make Bloodthirst on turn 2 and lost you're ability to hit with a turn 1 creature.  Other than that, it's a fairly limited card and probably not worth the space in the deck unless you're in an area where there are a lot of x/1 creatures about.
Goblin Grenadge : If you need another reason to run a Goblin deck, this is it.  1 mana (and a goblin, Arsonist anyone?) for 5 damage to a creature or a player.  Wonderful finisher.

2cc
Arc Trail : I'm not really sold here, but it can get some decent 2-for-1s.  Too bad it's a sorcery, which kind of holds it back.
Burn the Impure : solid creature only burn, and it punishes Infect.
Incinerate : the soon to be standard for 3 damage.

3cc
Volt Charge : 3 damage for 3 mana.  And it'll randomly help charge up a Planeswalker.
Brimstone Volley : the defacto 3 damage for 3 mana burn spell right now.  It's morbid bumps the damage to 5 so you can attack into certain creature death (and maybe get some damage through) and then fire off a nice 5 shot to their face (and hopefuly win).


4cc
Chandra's Outrage : This I like.  4 mana to hit a creature for 4 and you get a free 2 damage in to their dome.  It's like getting both your Staggershocks at once plus a Shock.
Koth of the Hammer : finally, a Sligh curved Planeswalker for mono-Red.  He does it all, mana ramps, gives you an endgame, or just turns a mountain into a 4/4 for a turn every turn.  I just treat him like a 4/4 haste for 4 most of the time, a 4/4 that doesn't necessarily "die".


X Spell
Fireball : your basic X-Spell
Red Sun's Zenith : Improved Fireball, can't hit multiple targets but it can recure itself, and it exiles it's dead target.
Devil's Play : basic X-Burn with flashback.  Nuff said really.
Corrosive Gale : Need to get those flyers, but leave your grounders alive?  This is it.



Lands:

Mountains, and the occasional Swamp or Forest or Plains should be all you need, but there are some other useful lands.

Ghost Quarter : Solid land destruction for non-basics.  Their kind of useless VS mono though, and don't waste them on basics.
Dragonskull Summit : solid R/B land
Rootbound Crag : solid R/G Land
Clifftop Retreat : solid R/W Land
Sulfur Falls : solid R/U Land
Blackcleave Cliffs : great turn 1/2 R/B land
Copperline Gorge : great turn 1/2 R/G land
Evolving Wilds : clunky way to get your splash color, avoid this unless you want to do more than a splash for Flashback costs in W or U.


Sideboard

Combust : Our answer to blue/white fatties.
Ratchet Bomb : a possible why to blow up enchantments, but we run a lot of 1 and 2 cmc creatures, meaning this blown up wrecks us hard core.
Shatter : this could be tech in the days to come.  And our easiest answer to some jerk dropping a Platinum Emperion.
Nihil Spellbomb : Good graveyard hate.  It's no Relic, but it'll do.
Crush : Some times you need to blow up artifacts quick, and while this can't hit creatures, it is good for stealing the wind out of WWQuest's game plan after they combo off.
Slagstorm : new sweeper that can dome.  And it has the magic number (3).
Whipflare : closest thing right now to Pyroclasm
Manabarbs : nice tech for Control, or mana greedy decks.
Ancient Grudge : Shatter + flashback.  This is enough of a reason to splash Green.
Traitorous Blood : the new threaten effect in town
Act of Aggression : last set's threaten.  Instant speed and you can pay some blood to drop it down for our curve.  Some times instant speed is just plain better (like for defense rather than offense)
Act of Treason : Threaten


R.gif

Match Ups to come if I can get around to testing them.


Fun trick for easy collor splash, Run a singleton of your splash color plus a set of nonbasics, and use Ghost Quarter to pop off your own land to fetch your singleton.

My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Mine again:

[/deck]

Edit: played against 5-Color Control today (both Bant-centric and Grixis-centric styles) and I mainly won when I played first. I think Thoughtseize is almost a necessity and at the very least should be in the SB. I'm also thinking Demigod needs to be worked in, however I don't have any DoR of my own to include. Blightning is tops.

Edit2: took this to FNM two weeks ago from this edit, and went 3-1, losing to an extremely rogue Bant deck with Steel of the Godheads and Swans of B.A. Made me wish I had Inversions/Shriekmaw/heckTerror in my SB. Sad sad day for me.
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Rules Advisor Don't assume I have read any response you might have made directed toward me in a thread or post. The best method to contact me is Private Message as I will always check there upon logging on Please review the Code of Conduct or the Comprehensive Rules when in doubt. Also, please use Google for your easy-to-answer questions. Read this for a bit on game mathematics. This is information on game psychology and the infamous term "scrub." Autocard:
[c]Gifts Ungiven[/c] -> Gifts Ungiven
royk's Tradesroyk's Deck Dump
Nice thread. It looks pretty good. I'm going to try to build a sligh deck because I have always been interested in making one of these. Is Goblin Blossom any good for this type of deck? It pumps out creatures that come out and attack on the same turn.
I think the goblin blossom is great tech. A token deck I played once beat me in game one because my fanatics had to keep attacking so I couldn't 2-of-1 off him. And the free hasted critters are hard to stop. However the problem is there isn't too much room in the 3-drop slot for the curve. I'd probably would use it if I went for a goblin theme, and use them with Goblin King as a 2-of, and 4 Ram-Gangs.

I tried to use them in my working build as some tech to combat BB, but I found that most of the time, I'd kill with my super secret tech before the goblin tokens could earn their keep. I just think my problem was I wasn't trying to capitalize on the free tokens.

Hell's Thunder on the other hand, I have mixed feelings on. for 3 you get a 4/4 flyier for 1 turn, whether they chump him or not, then you get a second stab with him later when you can pay 5. People try to tell me he's a new Ball Lightning but he's not that efficient of a beater and no trample means BB tokens laugh at it.

What I'm really interested in is looking into tech to stop WW cold. I've been looking into Chaotic Backlash. It's 5 mana and is a little out of the curve, but with that pesky Burrenton Forge-Tender I need to be able to lay on a massive amount of damage with one blast. And if I slipped a Pithing Needle into play before hand naming the Tender, it should give me the win.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
What about Splashing Green for Sarkhan - he does buff weenees and he can steal a creature so we can beat our opponent over the head with it.

I know someone who is splashing white for Ajani Vengeant. He has two awesome abilities. 1st - He can tap down our ops biggest threat. 2nd - He has targeted removal and life gain all in one. 3rd - Sucks and will never happen.

Tag teaming these two together is just mean too. Steal a creature, attack and then use Ajani's 1st ability in the second main phase.

They might be a little out of our curve, but it may be worth a try.
Splashing a color for a Planeswalker might be worth it, but I just see it as a wasted turn. Sure Sarkhon pumps and hastes our army, or just gives us an extra attack from the other side for a turn, but their are better temp theft spells than Sarkhon's ability. I'm more of an advocate for classic Sligh (ie, mono colored) but I'm willing to throw in another color if it will give me a good answer to problems, or a faster game clock.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Splashing a color for a Planeswalker might be worth it, but I just see it as a wasted turn. Sure Sarkhon pumps and hastes our army, or just gives us an extra attack from the other side for a turn, but their are better temp theft spells than Sarkhon's ability. I'm more of an advocate for classic Sligh (ie, mono colored) but I'm willing to throw in another color if it will give me a good answer to problems, or a faster game clock.

Actually, the more I read Ajani V's abilities I realise that he is awesome.

Not only can he hit a player or a creature, but he can also hit a PW.

I'm going to do some testing on this.

BTW: is FoD really needed for this deck?
Actually, the more I read Ajani V's abilities I realise that he is awesome.

Not only can he hit a player or a creature, but he can also hit a PW.

I'm going to do some testing on this.

BTW: is FoD really needed for this deck?

Splashing for a PW seems like a good idea if the PW wins you the game.

There is no point in playing this deck if you aren't going to run FoD.
no card is NEEDED for a deck like Sligh. However, FoD is a perfect fit for Sligh, since he curves out so well. He's a turn 2, attacking 2/2, a turn 3 attacking 4/4. He has no down side except you have to get him to live long enough to use him.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
-bump-

I've been working on the over all look of the thread and updated it so include all Sligh, not just the classic take on it. I build up a Satanic Sligh build, and it has met with some great success.

Wort and BB help to generate some extra CA, BB in the form of 'free' 1/1 black fliers, and Wort can recover most of the creatures, and some burn. It's pretty potent, I might try to slip in the Goblin Blossom as a 1/2-of to get all my guys (-blood tokens and FoD) hasted.

If anyone is interested in making a banner to help improve the threats look, let me know.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
I have reservations about some of your choices for your Satanic Sligh build:

MAIN
+1 BB
Wort, Boggart Auntie: I'd prefer something that can't be Spout'ed/Inversion'ed/etc.

SB
Warren Weirding: why this? So it does "hit" Colossi and Cavaliers, but we've got Javelin and other burn to do that.
Profane Command: most of the time we'll only be able to Profane for 1-3, which is, IMO, not worth it. I'd rather run instant burn.
Tarfire: this main instead of Magma Spray. Magma Spray should be in the SB as you only want it when your opponent has persist etc. shenanigans.

Why no Thoughtseize here?
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Rules Advisor Don't assume I have read any response you might have made directed toward me in a thread or post. The best method to contact me is Private Message as I will always check there upon logging on Please review the Code of Conduct or the Comprehensive Rules when in doubt. Also, please use Google for your easy-to-answer questions. Read this for a bit on game mathematics. This is information on game psychology and the infamous term "scrub." Autocard:
[c]Gifts Ungiven[/c] -> Gifts Ungiven
royk's Tradesroyk's Deck Dump
Wort would be a late game play, to recover a dead critter every turn as well as being able to draw a card. and a 3/3 fear isn't too bad. Also, the other guy is likely to have more on his mind then Wort, with Ram-Gangs and FoD's running around.

Weirding is in the board because in the mirror, a 2/1 isn't going to do you much good, but a pair of 1/1s can slip 1 damage though. With Wort, you can either recover the 2/1 next turn, or get the Weirding, to turn that surviving 1/1 into a pair of 1/1s. And they have haste. They've done pretty well.

The Main deck could stand to have 1 more BB, but I don't know what to pull for the 4th copy. I don't want to cut a Ram-Gang, and Sligh needs it's 1-drops.

The command is a late game finisher, and mid game, if can be a removal spell that saps some life. The critter recovery + fear is nice, and can be good too in the right match ups, like WW.

I personally like main decked Spray. I hate Finx that much. I'd rather go in knowing if i encounter him, I can deal with him. In game 2 if I don't think they have Finx or any other recurring threats, I bring in a playset of 'shocks' to replace them.

I'm going to run my Satanic Sligh to FNM and get some real results.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Edit: Actually, screw that. I want to run something with Wrath and Cryptic XD

I'll play and log my non-tourney games with this though.



Edit2:

Me playing my aforementioned Sligh deck sans SB (too lazy).
Two opponents played against today at my store's weekly bring-your-standard-deck-for-playtesting day:

Deck: QnT (Bant-Centric)
Notable/Unique Cards: Stoic Angel, Cloudthresher, Bant Charm
Comments: Stoic Angel > BB.

Deck: QnT (Grixis-Centric)
Notable/Unique Cards: Cruel Ultimatum, Sedraxis Specter, Grixis Charm, Thoughtseize, Unsummon
Comments: once they reach 7 mana, you pretty much lose due to Cruel Ult. The fact that this style has access to sundry 4/4 FoD killers is bad news.

Final Summation: I won mostly when I got to go first. I also won when on the draw but that was due to the Bant QnT player's misplay. Some things I noticed...

BB: still good.
Blightning: doesn't affect the board state? SO WHAT! Domes for 3 and Rots for 2. Only bad if they run Wilt-leaf Liege... oh wait, who runs that POS.
Goblin Deathraiders: punk'd by everything (Spout'ed/Clasm'ed/etc) but this thing does nasty to Kitchen Finks.
Hell's Thunder: so, people keep decrying this because it gets chumped by BB tokens all day. Thing is, I haven't seen anything of note running BB as Faeries is becoming increasingly unpopular and QnT will not run BB. This guy has been pretty amazing. Though DoR still reigns supreme as 's coup de grace of choice.
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Rules Advisor Don't assume I have read any response you might have made directed toward me in a thread or post. The best method to contact me is Private Message as I will always check there upon logging on Please review the Code of Conduct or the Comprehensive Rules when in doubt. Also, please use Google for your easy-to-answer questions. Read this for a bit on game mathematics. This is information on game psychology and the infamous term "scrub." Autocard:
[c]Gifts Ungiven[/c] -> Gifts Ungiven
royk's Tradesroyk's Deck Dump
I think I'm gonna run a gambit and just fill my bored up with various Tech to test out. Like Pithing Needles, Backlashes, and maybe a few Goblin Blossoms to test in place of Wort.

My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Just had a thought, for some tech: Ad Nauseam. If we ran it as a 2-of in a R/b built it could generate the CA we need to finish the game the next turn. And it can be played at the Opponent's EoT. It can go off a turn or too sooner than 5-color control, and if they throw a counter, they can't fog what you have in play when you untap and swing.



The only draw back is Ad Nauseam hurts if it gets revealed, and Javelin hurts worst. 5 mana is outside the curve but the CA we can get from it is huge. Enough that we might draw enough gas (ie: Burn) to finish it up when we untap.

Thoughts?

Edit: So far in testing, Nauseam can get pick up around 8 cards before the life loss is a problem. With a low of 3 (Javelin into Javelin into Javelin) and a high of 14 (punch line is a lot of lands and 1cc spells, with a Ram-Gang or 2 for good measure).
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
~bump in the hope of re-establishing activity~

updated some match ups and touched up the OP a bit. Still looking into making up a banner though.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Problem with Ad Naus. is that you typically want to run more lands than trad. sligh would just so you'd be able to consistently play Ad. Naus. in a timely fashion. But then if you run more lands the 5 CMC slot is better occupied by DoR, who wins the game right then as opposed to the next turn.
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Rules Advisor Don't assume I have read any response you might have made directed toward me in a thread or post. The best method to contact me is Private Message as I will always check there upon logging on Please review the Code of Conduct or the Comprehensive Rules when in doubt. Also, please use Google for your easy-to-answer questions. Read this for a bit on game mathematics. This is information on game psychology and the infamous term "scrub." Autocard:
[c]Gifts Ungiven[/c] -> Gifts Ungiven
royk's Tradesroyk's Deck Dump
[/deck]

Here is my take on it, finally. I like Stigma Lasher MD because everyone is playing Finks. I am also running a fair amount of reach because too many creatures is a bad thing in this meta.
I'd rather have a build for adept at fighting control main deck, and run Sprays to deal with Finks. It's not so much the life gain that ticks me off about it (but I will board in the Lashers in game 2/3 anyways), so much as the persisting back does.

I'd have the Shard Volleys in the deck or board if it wasn't for the fact that if I'm lucky, and only have drawn 3 lands for most of the game, Shard Volley hurts. I can't use it if doing so knocks me away from being able to Javelin when I need to.

I got tired of Ram-Gang dropping to 90%+ of the removal in the format, so I went for the more robust Gouger. It's added another turn to the clock in some games where I'm a little shy on burn, but it's been worth it.

The extra lands with Nauseam haven't been much of an issue (since I'm only running 2 more) Really my only issue is when I get stuck with a pain land early in the game, but I'd rather have a pain land than a vivid, for tempo reasons. I can get by with color less mana well enough.

I've rarely scene a Demigod force an auto win on turn 5. I'd rather fake a removal spell on hand, than Nauseam to dig up a lot of burn so I can blast for the win when I untap. No one I've played was expecting a 'red deck' to suddenly go from 1 card in hand to 9 then triple Incinerate FTW. People know how to deal with 1 demigod on turn 5, but they don't know how to deal with 3 burn spells from a hand that looked like the best thing it could do was double Javelin, assuming a lucky top deck. Nauseam usually does of in games 2/3, and when I play it, no one counters it since they don't know how many cards I'm getting, but if I reveal a Javelin, I take a hit, which is incentive for them since I'm making their job easier. But this is just my experience/opinion.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
I've been out for a little while, so I'm a little behind (I missed all of Eventide's impacts and am just now looking at catching up). I tried Sligh back when Shadowmoor was big and a little before then, and I had generally "meh" results. Has anything changed since then concerning Sligh? What luck have you guys had with Mono-R? I could never get it to perform consistently.
Ad Nauseum? In Sligh? No. Seriously, no. Look, I realise that sligh's mana curve is low.... and I realise that sligh needs hand refill... but honestly, a 5cc spell that will net you 2 or 3 cards before you stop drawing is not worth it, especially without free stuff that you can play same turn.



And B/R Satanic Sligh
[deck=Satanic Sligh]~creatures~
4*Mogg Fanatic
4*Tattermunge Maniac
4*Viscera Dragger
3*Figure of Destiny
3*Hell's Thunder
3*Ashenmoor Gouger
~spells~
4*Magma Spray
4*Incinerate
4*Flame Javelin
3*Lash Out
2*Profane Command
~lands~
22 blah blah blah
~ ~ ~ SIDEBOARD ~ ~ ~
4*Blightning
4*Deathmark
3*Syphon Life
3*Everlasting Torment
1 x land (to add with syphon life, which is to deal with RDW)[/deck]

Profane + Hell's Thunder is evil... and also, try out Viscera Dragger as card draw... if you don't EOT burn, you can draw instead.
There's Elemental Sligh with Hell's Thunder, Sunflare Shaman, Thunderblust, Spitebellows, and possibly even Rage Forger. Honorable Mentions for it are: Flamekin Harbinger, Flamekin Bladewhirl(Ew...), Smokebraider, and Incandescent Soulstoke. Made a couple of T8 during block season PTQs.
a 5cc spell that will net you 2 or 3 cards before you stop drawing is not worth it, especially without free stuff that you can play same turn.

2 to 3 cards? If you can only get 2 to 3 cards from it your using it wrong. If I stop after 2 cards it's because I get double Javelin and have a land in my hand. The goal is you inflict maximum damage on the turns leading up to Nauseam, then you dig until your life could be in danger. Then you just win. Usual this is by the painful double Javelin, and popping some Fanatics or by triple Incinerate. The goal of Sligh Nauseam is to deal 12+ damage by turn 4 if you can rip a Nauseam on turn 5. It works out nicely since I see control Wrath around that time, then they think I've been dealt with. I then EoT Nauseam, my life drops to roughly theirs and then they die. Then if their are other games they have to think, do i clear the board or wait for Nauseam to counter it? If they hold the Wrath, you win with another creature swing, if they Wrath and you have Nauseam, you win since they tapped down and you get a hyper refill. Win-Win.

Sure, some times Nauseam doesn't quite give you the burn you need, but it does give you creatures to work with post-wrath, and it's rare for control to have an answer that fast after 'solving' you.

@HKDizzy:
Do you have one of the T8 lists on hand? Or know where I can find a link to post up an 'old' block list?
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
2 to 3 cards? If you can only get 2 to 3 cards from it your using it wrong. If I stop after 2 cards it's because I get double Javelin and have a land in my hand. The goal is you inflict maximum damage on the turns leading up to Nauseam, then you dig until your life could be in danger. Then you just win. Usual this is by the painful double Javelin, and popping some Fanatics or by triple Incinerate. The goal of Sligh Nauseam is to deal 12+ damage by turn 4 if you can rip a Nauseam on turn 5. It works out nicely since I see control Wrath around that time, then they think I've been dealt with. I then EoT Nauseam, my life drops to roughly theirs and then they die. Then if their are other games they have to think, do i clear the board or wait for Nauseam to counter it? If they hold the Wrath, you win with another creature swing, if they Wrath and you have Nauseam, you win since they tapped down and you get a hyper refill. Win-Win.

Sure, some times Nauseam doesn't quite give you the burn you need, but it does give you creatures to work with post-wrath, and it's rare for control to have an answer that fast after 'solving' you.

@HKDizzy:
Do you have one of the T8 lists on hand? Or know where I can find a link to post up an 'old' block list?

Denver Cruise Tournament (5th Place)

4 Flamekin Harbinger
1 Fulminator Mage
4 Incandescent Soulstoke
4 Nova Chaser
4 Smokebraider
1 Spitebellows
2 Stigma Lasher
4 Thunderblust
4 Flame Javelin
4 Incinerate
4 Soul's Fire

16 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Spinerock Knoll

Sideboard:
2 Ashenmoor Gouger
3 Fulminator Mage
3 Spitebellows
4 Guttural Response
3 Shock

Tsuyoshi Ikeda - GP: Kobe T8
20 Mountain
4 Mutavault

1 Ashling the Pilgrim
4 Flamekin Harbinger
4 Intimidator Initiate
4 Rage Forger
4 Smokebraider
3 Thunderblust
4 Vexing Shusher
4 Flame Javelin
4 Lash Out
4 Tarfire

Sideboard
2 Ashenmoor Gouger
3 Ember Gale
3 Flame Jab
2 Moonglove Extract
2 Spitebellows
2 Spiteful Visions

It's missing a 15th SB card but I'm sure you can add one wherever.
I've always have had a love for Sligh. I'm still of the fence whether or not it is viable in Standard.


23 Creatures:
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Stigma Lasher
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
3 Hell's Thunder

16 Other:
4 Incinerate
4 Flame Javelin
4 Shard Volley
4 Magma Spray

21 Land:
4 Ghitu Encampment
17 Mountain

The curve is low and the cards are pretty powerful. I think a good Sligh list could really throw a lot of decks off their game because this comes out swinging and doesn't stop (well, that is, if you don't overextend).
I've always have had a love for Sligh. I'm still of the fence whether or not it is viable in Standard.


23 Creatures:
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Stigma Lasher
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
3 Hell's Thunder

16 Other:
4 Incinerate
4 Flame Javelin
4 Shard Volley
4 Magma Spray

21 Land:
4 Ghitu Encampment
17 Mountain

The curve is low and the cards are pretty powerful. I think a good Sligh list could really throw a lot of decks off their game because this comes out swinging and doesn't stop (well, that is, if you don't overextend).

You know, I saw a list like this the week after Shards came in. I think it did pretty well.

Comments on the deck:
Any better MD 2-drop than Stigma Lasher? Lasher seems like a SB card to me...

Don't run 4 Shard Volley... 4 is too many. I would replace 2 with Lash Out, which IS a good burn spell.

I think 3 Ghitu Encampment is the right number. 4 Might clog your curve.

Last note, probably a bad idea though... Quicksand? Free removal could be sligh's best friend, and if it can save your critter once in a while, too, then that's all the better. It would stop a good number of creatures from wanting to block your tattermunge. It puts opposing Ram-Gangs in Fanatic range, as well as other 3-toughness creatures. The colorless mana is unfortunate, but a well-tuned deck should be able to get around it.


Sideboard:
Stigma Lasher looks better here.
Puncture Blast deals with bigger threats/blockers and annoying persisters.
Everlasting Torment for Story Circle
Pyroclasm I know it seems anti-synergistic, but WW has a lot of first strike, and this may be the only way to bite 'em in the ass hard enough.


From my years and years of experience with traditional type 1 sligh, with the Fireblasts and the Jackal Pups and the HOIVENMAVEN!!! These all seem like good card choices in the deck.
Thanks for the reply!

i kinda agree that lasher is a little clunky, here's are the options that i see that could take its place:

Adder-Staff Boggart
Bloodmark Mentor
Heartlash Cinder
Mudbrawler Cohort
Viashino Sandscout

or a splash of color(probably not) for:

Goblin Deathraiders
Rip-Clan Crasher

if there is a splash of green there is the possibility of adding firespout to the board.

thoughts?
Might I suggest my Gruulish beats deck?



Odd deck, huh? But yeah, it's sligh with 8 Giant Growths so as to make people doubt their blocking plays. Not so sure about the creature-base (of all things), but it's meant to maximise both Paragon and/or Boartusk.
SpookyDoom: I'm running almost an identical creature base to yours, the only difference being that I've swapped to running Nettle Sentinel. The x/2 vs x/1 body has become increasingly relevant in my testing, especially against any Rx DW with Fanatics. Also, the untap problem is nil usually since you have so many hybrid or green creatures. I wouldn't call my aggro version Sligh anymore, but I felt it couldn't hurt to suggest.

Also, Twinblade Slasher reminds me of some stuff I've read about Sligh. The whole making use of extra mana thing can be nice. Green has some good options right now, IMO, and I think it's underrated in the current (speculative) meta. Also, the sideboard really opens up if you dip into green.

I'm not really sure where to talk about my deck now, seeing as the Gruul Beats thread is dead and according to them I'm not running Beats. But, I don't think I'm running RDW either..... ??
@the last 2 posts:

This reminds me of a discussion on the Standard General forum... and that is the viablility of Stompy in the current meta.

Spooky, your list, running 8 "Giant Growth" effects, is what Stompy is all about, and Anubis, your suggestions add to that very well.

(On that note, I think Briarhorn > Earthbrawn)

I think in the Standard Deck Help forum, a "Gruul Stompy" thread should be made.


Off topic:
Stompy suggestions: a touch of Black for Oona's Prowler and Jund Charm
I know the curve needs a lot of improvement, but this is the closest thing I have seen to Sligh do well in any tournaments lately.

1st place Vermont State Chamionship

2 Battlefield Forge
4 Fire-Lit Thicket
4 Jungle Shrine
4 Karplusan Forest
5 Mountain
1 Rugged Prairie
3 Treetop Village
1 Wooded Bastion
24 lands


4 Figure of Destiny
2 Hell's Thunder
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Rip-Clan Crasher
3 Spark Elemental
4 Woolly Thoctar
21 creatures

4 Flame Javelin
4 Magma Spray
3 Naya Charm
4 Puncture Blast
15 other spells

Sideboard

2 Chaotic Backlash
2 Cloudthresher
3 Firespout
4 Guttural Response
2 Naturalize
2 Oblivion Ring
15 sideboard cards

I'll be working on my version of the deck and posting it later.
Well I called it sligh because of it's sligh-ish mana curve, if you want to call it Stompy though, be my guest. I did participate in the Grull Stomp thread... In the Tournament center? 4 Countryside Crushers to fix card draw and a whole lot of red high power beaters and trample enablers? This is something else.

Which will need Gift of the Garguantuan over Commune with Nature, as finding those man-lands becomes increasingly important. Then I'm thinking that as long as I'm thinking *"wrath-protection", I might as well bring Goblin Assault instead, take out man lands and see if I couldn't just -1 land + 1 business spell.

I took Earthbrawn because it works with Paragon, but Paragon doesn't fit the general strategy of *"swing and trade cards". Trample really isn't necessary for this deck. I might maindeck Vexing Shusher instead as a 3-of and add a fourth Boartusk. Briarhorn might be given a chance.

This is all a work in progress: base idea is for sligh, but with creature pumps rather than removal. Creature pumps are usually more mana-efficient than burn and the end result is about the same. You kill the other deck before their utility creatures become relevant.
Back in the day we used to run Bloodlust in Sligh. It was an amazing card, especially with the orcs.

With no bloodlust effect, we don't try the orcs anymore...

But Fists of Anvil is a very nice substitute for Bloodlust and I run it in my sligh deck. It has to be carefully played but it is 4 damage for 2 mana and in a deck with much haste its easy to catch your opponent with it.

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All of the two-drops in red are pretty bad. I wish Blood Knight was still in the format, as it would be very good in a deck like this.
@spookydoom & @anubis647: i think going that far into green territory isn't the best plan for sligh. the deck posted fails to have a key mechanic to a sligh deck and that's burn. lack of a burn suite doesn't help the offense at all.

i think a small splash of something may work but other than that it takes away from the core of the deck.
I think Sligh will ultimately have to be re-examined to become a force in today's meta. The traditional style is exactly what it's name implies: Traditional. Metagames change, and the same approach may not always be relevant and/or feasible in a given meta. That being said, I don't think my deck is exactly Sligh anyway, but I did want to contribute to the discussion.

I am of the persuasion that at this point and time mono-red Sligh just won't cut it. The sideboard has no depth and the 2 drop slot is desperately slim. I do think that a small splash is almost necessary to compete. I ran Mono-R Sligh back in the summer at FNM and never did too spectaculary with it, mostly because I couldn't deal with everything and my lists never had any "oomph" for the late game. That's what got me looking into adding green and Boartusk Liege. Of course, green isn't necessary for BTL, but I think it's a good addition to help finish the game. My deck curved out at 3, and it just never had enough muscle to win.
All of the two-drops in red are pretty bad. I wish Blood Knight was still in the format, as it would be very good in a deck like this.

Lacking 2 drops is a big issue.

I heavily endorse a warrior based sligh approach. For this I actually like Adder-Staff Boggart, who can be a 3/2 for R1, which is exceedingly decent. At worst he filters the draw.

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

You could always splash black for [C]Scarblade Elite[/C]...
You could always splash black for [C]Scarblade Elite[/C]...

No kidding.

Isn't it cute how the best aggro builds were explicitly denied a solid 2 drop except for elves? Green's got piles of them. Red's floundering.

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2011 States Top 4
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

No kidding.

Isn't it cute how the best aggro builds were explicitly denied a solid 2 drop except for elves? Green's got piles of them. Red's floundering.

I think the design team is partially retarded... stuff is onbalanced right now; the colors, control cards versus aggro cards, and such. They need some... new workers I think.
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