R/x Deck Wins

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Red Deck Wins
(and friends)
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What is Red Deck Wins?
Red Deck Wins (or RDW for short) has been around in one form or another for years. It features efficient creatures for the early game, burn for reach towards the endgame, and closes out board stalls much quicker than other aggro style decks. A lot of people think it loses a lot with time spiral/coldsnap rotating out (no more magus of the moon or skred), but it will still be a contender now and for years to come.

How do you play Red Deck Wins?
1) lay down efficient dudes
2) clear out potential blockers with efficient spells
3) ???
4) profit!

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Card Choices

Creatures
Show

figure of destiny - arguably the most efficient creature in standard today.
tattermunge maniac - 2 power one drop.
mogg fanatic - birds got you down? bloom tender elementals giving you trouble? One mana answer on a stick. Also usually trades up.
boggart ram-gang - 3 power of hasty withering goodness.
ashenmoor gouger - a 4/4 for three usually makes the cut. Also dodges firespout, terror, shriekmaw, nameless inversion. . . the list goes on.
demigod of revenge - 5 power of hasty flying goodness that brings friends. Definitely a fan.
hell's thunder - the newest ball lightning, now with built-in reusability!
stigma lasher - shuts down lifegain strategies


Spells
Show

incinerate - 3 damage for two mana at instant speed!
flame javelin - 4 damage for three mana, also a good answer to chameleon colossus, stoic angel, etc.
lash out - removes blockers, fixes draws, and can potentially hit for 3 to the face
shock/tarfire - 2 damage for 1 mana
unwilling recruit - a threaten mana sink. Typically good as a 1/2 of mainboard, otherwise sideboarded for emphasis
shard volley - neo-lightning bolt, 3 instant damage for 1 mana with a negligable drawback


Lands
Show

mountain - produces red mana and UNTAPS FOR FREE! if it weren't for those pesky islands...
ghitu encampment - a decent manland.
mutavault - if you so choose, but colorless mana can sometimes throw off your curve.


Sideboard
Show

spitebellows - removal for hard to reach things
magma spray - removes pesky kitchen finks from the game.
puncture blast - shrinks those chameleon colossi, also doubles as burn to the face.
everlasting torment - shuts down lifegain strategies and persist creatures
guttural response - cryptic command troubles no more!
wild ricochet - make those commands work for you!
dragon's claw - gives you a leg up on the mirror
vexing shusher - hinders counter-based decks
howling mine - keeps your threat density even higher


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Joshua Drum, 8th place SCG Win-A-Cruise 10-12-08


frankydizzle's list


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Matchups:
  • official list coming soon


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Special Thanks To:
Hoduku, for the whole freakin' layout
JonnyManya for the sweet banner






***still looking for some sort of matchup analysis***

So I went 5-0 tonight at FNM with a list that was -2 hell's thunder +2 unwilling recruit, and I was too lazy (read - drunk) to get the actual sideboard together. I settled with 4 puncture blast, 2 magma spray, and 9 random jank (literally; stream of unconsciousness, weed-pruner poplar, mosquito guard and other champs. . . cards I had proxied the backs of for Type 1) en route to not losing a game against a precon, bloom tender elementals, 2 toast, and GB elves.

Between rounds, I beat a couple esper decks, faeries, and another toast.

Nothing really important here, just wanted to spur discussion
Here's my deck for this:



6 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mountain" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Mountain">Mountain</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Auntie%27s+Hovel" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Auntie%27s+Hovel">Auntie's Hovel</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Graven+Cairns" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Graven+Cairns">Graven Cairns</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reflecting+Pool" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Reflecting+Pool">Reflecting Pool</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sulfurous+Springs" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Sulfurous+Springs">Sulfurous Springs</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghitu+Encampment" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Ghitu+Encampment">Ghitu Encampment</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Figure+of+Destiny" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Figure+of+Destiny">Figure of Destiny</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mogg+Fanatic" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Mogg+Fanatic">Mogg Fanatic</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin+Deathraiders" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Goblin+Deathraiders">Goblin Deathraiders</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boggart+Ram-Gang" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Boggart+Ram-Gang">Boggart Ram-Gang</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashenmoor+Gouger" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Ashenmoor+Gouger">Ashenmoor Gouger</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hell%27s+Thunder" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Hell%27s+Thunder">Hell's Thunder</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demigod+of+Revenge" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Demigod+of+Revenge">Demigod of Revenge</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Incinerate" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Incinerate">Incinerate</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flame+Javelin" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Flame+Javelin">Flame Javelin</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thoughtseize" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Thoughtseize">Thoughtseize</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faerie+Macabre" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Faerie+Macabre">Faerie Macabre</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nameless+Inversion" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Nameless+Inversion">Nameless Inversion</a>
3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unwilling+Recruit" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Unwilling+Recruit">Unwilling Recruit</a>


Thoughts?
this is my R/B version. Viscera Dragger has been performing very well in my tests: he's like a 3/3 haste for 4 mana, and let us draw a card. SB tweakble basing on the meta.


8 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mountain" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Mountain">Mountain</a>
8 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swamp" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Swamp">Swamp</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Graven+Cairns" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Graven+Cairns">Graven Cairns</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mogg+Fanatic" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Mogg+Fanatic">Mogg Fanatic</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tattermunge+Maniac" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Tattermunge+Maniac">Tattermunge Maniac</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin+Deathraiders" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Goblin+Deathraiders">Goblin Deathraiders</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashenmoor+Gouger" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Ashenmoor+Gouger">Ashenmoor Gouger</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hell%27s+Thunder" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Hell%27s+Thunder">Hell's Thunder</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Viscera+Dragger" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Viscera+Dragger">Viscera Dragger</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shock" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Shock">Shock</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Incinerate" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Incinerate">Incinerate</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blightning" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Blightning">Blightning</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flame+Javelin" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Flame+Javelin">Flame Javelin</a>




4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magma+Spray" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Magma+Spray">Magma Spray</a>
3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pyroclasm" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Pyroclasm">Pyroclasm</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Everlasting+Torment" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Everlasting+Torment">Everlasting Torment</a>

[/deck]
How do guys like Soul's Fire? With gouger, demigod's or thunder's in play it's 4-5 damage for 3.
I think soul fire is a great card, I haven't tested it yet, but I will soon. It doesn't happen often but there are games that figure gets big, and if it does and you have a soul fire, then that right there is pretty much gg.

Here is my deck so far.

24 Lands
4x graven cairns
3x Aunties Hovel
17x Mountain

Creatures 18
4x Figure of Destiny
2x Mogg Fanatic
4x Hell's Thunder
4x Boggart Ram-Gang
4x Demigod of Revenge

Spells 18
4x Flame Javelin
4x incinerate
3x Tarfire
2x Soul's fire
2x Unwilling Recruit
3x Bone Splinter


Again I haven't tested it, so it will need some tweeking. Please give some feedback.
I also have lost a lot lately to Oversoul of Dusk. How do you answer this card?
I also have lost a lot lately to Oversoul of Dusk. How do you answer this card?

Well you can either stop if from being played before turn 5 (by taking out any manadorks the opponent runs), or you can drop Razormane Masticore on turn 5.

...unfortunately there may be a lot of artifact hate now in standard...
What, somebody who speaks english made a new OP? =p


Nice job. You should get a banner from CyrusBales...he seems to have a way with demigod banners....


Also, you should get R/x lists from the semi-recent Nationals events.
This looks really good, but isn't 12 creatures in the one drop slot a bit much? I'm planning on building Red Deck Wins, but I'm unsure if the trifectora of Tattermunge Maniac, Figure of Destiny, and Mogg Fanatic was meant to be. Wouldn't Figure and Fanatic be enough?
This looks really good, but isn't 12 creatures in the one drop slot a bit much? I'm planning on building Red Deck Wins, but I'm unsure if the trifectora of Tattermunge Maniac, Figure of Destiny, and Mogg Fanatic was meant to be. Wouldn't Figure and Fanatic be enough?

I have to agree with this. The only reason you'd want Tattermunge over Fanatic is if you're running Boar Tusk Liege since the extra +1/+1 is significant. Otherwise, 12 1-drops is a bit much.

Also, I don't really understand the reasoning behind Hell's Thunder. Then again, this may be just because I'm overestimating the amount of graveyard hate which snuffs the Thunder pretty well. Otherwise, it's a great card.
I wouldn't run Boartusk Liege to begin with, if only for preference. The theming in favor of Gruul for that is a bit much, although he fills a curve slot. I'd rather keep that four mana for burn spells, and having a curve that looks like-
T1- Fanatic or Figure
T2- Incinerate? (This deck misses Keldon Marauders SO much)
T3- Gouger or Hell's Thunder
T4- ??? (Definitely not Boartusk Liege though)
T5- Demigod.
I wouldn't run Boartusk Liege to begin with, if only for preference. The theming in favor of Gruul for that is a bit much, although he fills a curve slot. I'd rather keep that four mana for burn spells, and having a curve that looks like-
T1- Fanatic or Figure
T2- Incinerate? (This deck misses Keldon Marauders SO much)
T3- Gouger or Hell's Thunder
T4- ??? (Definitely not Boartusk Liege though)
T5- Demigod.

Why would you not want to run Boartusk Liege though? Maniac becomes a 4/3 that both main aggro decks have trouble getting rid of in combat (Fae/Kithkin(WW)) and Ram-Gang beats anything mid-range or below (except for Cloudthresher) without having to sacrifice an additional burn card. It also lives over Finks! It's not like the Liege is dependent off of anything over the top either since ALL of your guys get at least a +1/+1 boost and with him being a 3/4 with evasion on his own, I really fail to see a problem...
I wouldn't run Boartusk Liege to begin with, if only for preference. The theming in favor of Gruul for that is a bit much, although he fills a curve slot. I'd rather keep that four mana for burn spells, and having a curve that looks like-
T1- Fanatic or Figure
T2- Incinerate? (This deck misses Keldon Marauders SO much)
T3- Gouger or Hell's Thunder
T4- ??? (Definitely not Boartusk Liege though)
T5- Demigod.

This deck misses Magus of the Moon and Skred much more than Marauders. Maruaders wasn't even played in most decks close to rotation. I do agree with Liege. I'd only put it in a heavier Gruul build with Maniac, Rip-Clan Crasher, etc.

In the three slot, I'm starting to prefer Boggart Ram-Gang to Gouger. There's a lot of removal going around that doesn't care if the card is black or not (the charms and Condemn specifically) and Terror and Nameless Inversion are not as prevalent as they used to be.
In the three slot, I'm starting to prefer Boggart Ram-Gang to Gouger. There's a lot of removal going around that doesn't care if the card is black or not (the charms and Condemn specifically) and Terror and Nameless Inversion are not as prevalent as they used to be.

Most successful lists run both.
This looks really good, but isn't 12 creatures in the one drop slot a bit much? I'm planning on building Red Deck Wins, but I'm unsure if the trifectora of Tattermunge Maniac, Figure of Destiny, and Mogg Fanatic was meant to be. Wouldn't Figure and Fanatic be enough?

Sure, 12 one drops is a lot, but look at it like this - with a decided lack of two drops (especially ones that you'd want to drop on turn 2), wouldn't you rather open with turn 1 figure, turn 2 attack, pump, postcombat mogg fanatic or tattermunge maniac? It leads into a swing for 5/6 on turn 3, putting the pressure on like RDW is supposed to.
I don't think running 12 one drops is optimal. Im pretty sure its best to stay at 8, usually Figure and Fanatic.


Also, you should switch Stigma Lasher to "Creatures" and put everlasting torment under "sideboard".


Torment is a horrible MD card and lasher is a horrible SB card (compared to torment). If you going to run either, you should run them in the right spot.
With Hell's Thunder, it's mix and match in the three drop slot as well, and I'd rather have the Thunder over the Ram Gang in most situations. Stigma Lasher is the decks two drop, and I'd most likely run him maindeck to fill the curve.

I just dislike Boartusk Liege because he dies easily to Shriekmaw and Terror, has a strange 3/4 body, and the list I am running only gets +1/+1 off of him because I am running Fanatic and Figure in my one drop, and Gouger and Thunder in my three drop slot.
The liege is deffinately a Gruul only type card just isn't worth it in mred.
I don't think running 12 one drops is optimal. Im pretty sure its best to stay at 8, usually Figure and Fanatic.


Also, you should switch Stigma Lasher to "Creatures" and put everlasting torment under "sideboard".


Torment is a horrible MD card and lasher is a horrible SB card (compared to torment). If you going to run either, you should run them in the right spot.

I added everlasting torment to the SB card choices, and stigma lasher to creatures, but I never had torment in any other place. Mistaking it for unwilling recruit?
Also - any suggestions for the OP? I'd be more than willing to add more lists (like ones LemonBuster mentioned) or a fancy banner, but I have no idea where to look for either. If you find them, or have more to add, or anything else, let me know and I'll add it in the OP and your name to the thanks section!


I'm bad at finding stuff, but I'm good at post maintenance. Weird right?
With Hell's Thunder, it's mix and match in the three drop slot as well, and I'd rather have the Thunder over the Ram Gang in most situations. Stigma Lasher is the decks two drop, and I'd most likely run him maindeck to fill the curve.
This is the list we have been working on:



// Lands
4 [APL] Mountain (2)
4 [APL] Mountain (1)
4 [APL] Mountain (3)
4 [EUL] Mountain (1)
4 [EUL] Mountain (2)
4 [EUL] Mountain (3)

// Creatures
4 [ALA] Hell's Thunder
2 [EVE] Thunderblust
4 [SHM] Demigod of Revenge
4 [SHM] Boggart Ram-Gang
4 [REL] Figure of Destiny
3 [SHM] Ashenmoor Gouger
4 [EVE] Stigma Lasher

// Spells
4 [SHM] Flame Javelin
3 [LRW] Lash Out
4 [DLM] Incinerate

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [ALA] Magma Spray
SB: 4 [EVE] Puncture Blast
SB: 4 [SHM] Fulminator Mage
SB: 3 [EVE] Unwilling Recruit


The MD curve isn't quite where we want it. Might squeeze some Mogg Fanatics in the MD, or possibly move some Magma Sprays to the MD.
oooooooo! you made a boo-booooooPhage(or a mod) is going to swat you for mentioning "it that shall not be named"
I added everlasting torment to the SB card choices, and stigma lasher to creatures, but I never had torment in any other place. Mistaking it for unwilling recruit?

Nope. Torment negates Runed Halo and Burrenton Forge Tender, two of this decks considerable weak points. Besides torment we have no answer to either of these, not to mention it stops finks if you dont have Stigma Lasher on the field.
this is my R/B version. Viscera Dragger has been performing very well in my tests: he's like a 3/3 haste for 4 mana, and let us draw a card. SB tweakble basing on the meta.


8 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mountain" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Mountain">Mountain</a>
8 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swamp" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Swamp">Swamp</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Graven+Cairns" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Graven+Cairns">Graven Cairns</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mogg+Fanatic" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Mogg+Fanatic">Mogg Fanatic</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tattermunge+Maniac" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Tattermunge+Maniac">Tattermunge Maniac</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin+Deathraiders" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Goblin+Deathraiders">Goblin Deathraiders</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashenmoor+Gouger" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Ashenmoor+Gouger">Ashenmoor Gouger</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hell%27s+Thunder" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Hell%27s+Thunder">Hell's Thunder</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Viscera+Dragger" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Viscera+Dragger">Viscera Dragger</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shock" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Shock">Shock</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Incinerate" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Incinerate">Incinerate</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blightning" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Blightning">Blightning</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flame+Javelin" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Flame+Javelin">Flame Javelin</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Guttural+Response" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Guttural+Response">Guttural Response</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magma+Spray" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Magma+Spray">Magma Spray</a>
3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pyroclasm" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Pyroclasm">Pyroclasm</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Everlasting+Torment" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Everlasting+Torment">Everlasting Torment</a>

[/deck]

No, it's like a 3/3 that does 3 (maybe) and then it's gone. It certainly doesn't fit the idea that every creature is a threat. How has he been performing good exactly?

The manabase looks kind of random.

Goblin Deathraiders
Yes it's 3 power for 2. Yes it has trample. But more often than not, when it does trample it dies. In most cases it will be a bad Oona's Prowler in others it will do 2 and then die after trading with a token.
I do not see this card fit in this deck...

Since we're running black Infest is just better than Pyroclasm[c] due to [c]Burrenton Forge-Tenders

Also, I really dislike Hell's Thunder. Yes it's a 3 mana 4 damage creature. But that's exactly it's flaw....it only deals 4 damage and then it dies. Sure, it can be re-used for 5, but at that point it stops being effecient.
What is it that makes everyone love this card?

Finally your maniac needs to be Figure of Destiny and Thoughtseize is just good.
Has anybody considered Murderous Redcap in the sideboard? It seems interesting and might give a little extra reach. I've done a little testing with proxy Magma Spray and they've been working well. Sometimes I use it to clear a little path for Stigma Lasher maindeck, so I can prevent any lifegain from then on. I've been maining Stigma Lasher to fill a curve as my "grizzly bear". I'll reiterate- We miss Keldon Marauders, and bad. It applied a huge amount of early pressure and gave our clock a ton of speed. The loss of Skred makes me cry too, but it seems like a solid choice (RDW, that is) to play at FNM level and maybe above after we've done more testing.
No, it's like a 3/3 that does 3 (maybe) and then it's gone. It certainly doesn't fit the idea that every creature is a threat. How has he been performing good exactly?

The manabase looks kind of random.

Goblin Deathraiders
Yes it's 3 power for 2. Yes it has trample. But more often than not, when it does trample it dies. In most cases it will be a bad Oona's Prowler in others it will do 2 and then die after trading with a token.
I do not see this card fit in this deck...

Since we're running black Infest is just better than Pyroclasm[c] due to [c]Burrenton Forge-Tenders

Also, I really dislike [c]Hell's Thunder[c]. Yes it's a 3 mana 4 damage creature. But that's exactly it's flaw....it only deals 4 damage and then it dies. Sure, it can be re-used for 5, but at that point it stops being effecient.
What is it that makes everyone love this card?


Finally your maniac needs to be Figure of Destiny and Thoughtseize is just good.

Playing with it is what makes people love it. It usually comes down as a char. Then later you get to flashback your char for 5 mana. How exactly is that bad?

The curve on my list is pretty high, with Thunderblust and Demigods also at 5. The list is just full of hasty, efficient dudes, and alot of burn. Almost all of the expensive dudes come back in some way.

I just don't see how you can argue that flashing back your creature is inefficient, even if it is expensive. Was Chainer's edict inefficient? Its flashback was 7. Oh noes, thats way too high. Oh wait, its original cast was 2, and it was a really solid spell without flashback. It just had an added perk in the late game.

Play with cards before bashing them.
I agree. Hell's Thunder is the opposite of what you've just said; it has a great amount of efficiency for RDW. It initially hits for four, and then provides a vast amount of reach in the lategame when you can suddenly hit them for another four out of the blue. Or red. You get what I'm saying.

Consider this- Hell's Thunder, by itself, accounts for over 1/3rd of the opponents life. That's pretty darn nice.
oooooooo! you made a boo-booooooPhage(or a mod) is going to swat you for mentioning "it that shall not be named"

Sigged.
Yes I know we can play this as mono RDW, however based off the OP it looks like we should go in a R/bDW?

Has anyone other than me looked at it that way? Or should we keep it mono RDW?
I have a strong urge to rechristen this deck Demi Moore.


I think we have much to gain from splashing some , from which we get Blightning, Thoughtseize, Infest, Goblin Deathraiders, and Soul Snuffers among others.
Deck Critique VCL
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[c]Gifts Ungiven[/c] -> Gifts Ungiven
royk's Tradesroyk's Deck Dump
I have a strong urge to rechristen this deck Demi Moore.

Hmm...good idea. She is hot, Might I Like For all of us to think, but it may have to pass through TOS first. *shrugs*

Scene at FNM:

Player 1:
"What are you playing tonight?"

Me:
"Demi Moore."

All the players...:
"...woah...you win."


I think we have much to gain from splashing some , from which we get Blightning, Thoughtseize, Infest, Goblin Deathraiders, and Soul Snuffers among others.

Hmm...who Soul Snuffers? Maybe SB in vs Kithkin, and then follow with Firespout the following turn? Seems slow (and more suited for a Necroskitter deck). I would use Nameless Inversion instead.


What do you all think about some super secret tech that was in Xth?
actulally I would soul snuffers first then infest so that any forge tenders would be sol if they had a cenn or two on the board
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead." —Jaya Ballard, task mage
hell's thunder is the opposite of efficiency.


Its easily chumped/removed and then gets sacced.



This deck wins through board presence and hard to removal cost efficient beaters, which although Hell's Thunder is very cost efficient, it doesnt stick around. Vs one of our harder matchups, kithkin, he is easily unmade or chumped by a spectral token and then its a waste of a card. I would really run burn over that cards place if i was forced to make that choice. Same with Goblin Deathraiders. Ew.
I'd keep the board fairly clean with some of my burn and hit for four with the Thunder. Against Kithkin, although it'd be less than useful in the first game, I'd sideboard it out for something else altogether. Against one of our harder matchups, Kithkin, the same arguement can be made for Ashenmoor Gouger. Although it does not get sacced, it is forced to attack over and over because it cannot block, only to be chumped over and over. While this arguement isn't superb, as the Gouger can keep eating into their reserves of creatures, I still think it is valid.

I agree with you on Goblin Deathraiders though. I just can't get attached to that card.
I'd keep the board fairly clean with some of my burn and hit for four with the Thunder. Against Kithkin, although it'd be less than useful in the first game, I'd sideboard it out for something else altogether. Against one of our harder matchups, Kithkin, the same arguement can be made for Ashenmoor Gouger. Although it does not get sacced, it is forced to attack over and over because it cannot block, only to be chumped over and over. While this arguement isn't superb, as the Gouger can keep eating into their reserves of creatures, I still think it is valid.

Exactly. It's not like Hell's Thunder would be played games 2 & 3 if it's not effective game 1.

I agree with you on Goblin Deathraiders though. I just can't get attached to that card.

I liked it at first, however it seems to be only good in tribal goblin decks (and that's a stretch).

So because of that I went mono- again.



2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mountain" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Mountain">Mountain</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghitu+Encampment" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Ghitu+Encampment">Ghitu Encampment</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Figure+of+Destiny" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Figure+of+Destiny">Figure of Destiny</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stigma+Lasher" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Stigma+Lasher">Stigma Lasher</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boggart+Ram-Gang" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Boggart+Ram-Gang">Boggart Ram-Gang</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashenmoor+Gouger" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Ashenmoor+Gouger">Ashenmoor Gouger</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hell%27s+Thunder" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Hell%27s+Thunder">Hell's Thunder</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demigod+of+Revenge" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Demigod+of+Revenge">Demigod of Revenge</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shock" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Shock">Shock</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Incinerate" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Incinerate">Incinerate</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flame+Javelin" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Flame+Javelin">Flame Javelin</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magma+Spray" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Magma+Spray">Magma Spray</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faerie+Macabre" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Faerie+Macabre">Faerie Macabre</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pithing+Needle" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Pithing+Needle">Pithing Needle</a>
3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unwilling+Recruit" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Unwilling+Recruit">Unwilling Recruit</a>


Thoughts?
No, it's like a 3/3 that does 3 (maybe) and then it's gone. It certainly doesn't fit the idea that every creature is a threat. How has he been performing good exactly?

The manabase looks kind of random.

Goblin Deathraiders
Yes it's 3 power for 2. Yes it has trample. But more often than not, when it does trample it dies. In most cases it will be a bad Oona's Prowler in others it will do 2 and then die after trading with a token.
I do not see this card fit in this deck...

Since we're running black Infest is just better than Pyroclasm[c] due to [c]Burrenton Forge-Tenders

Also, I really dislike Hell's Thunder. Yes it's a 3 mana 4 damage creature. But that's exactly it's flaw....it only deals 4 damage and then it dies. Sure, it can be re-used for 5, but at that point it stops being effecient.
What is it that makes everyone love this card?

Finally your maniac needs to be Figure of Destiny and Thoughtseize is just good.

i wouldn't say that the idea of the deck is "every creature is a threat", rather i'd call it "win the game as fast as possible". deck also focuses on maximing the use of the mana, and Viscera Dragger is perfect for this issue. drawing a card is always good (by turn 5-6 we're usually hellbented) and it could be suprise-thrown when opponent is tapped out. it's not important that it "goes away", i thought deck for burst damage, not having a bunch of guys attacking each turn. in the R/B version i'd play it over Boggart Ram-Gang, with triple red mana cost.

i don't know how manabase could be that "kind of random", never had problems playing anything.

Goblin Deathraiders is the 2-drop this deck needs, it will surely die, but clears out the way for other non evasive creatures: by turn 3-4 not every deck has 1/1 useless "tokens" to sacrifice with raiders.

Hell's Thunder is simply amazing: who said we need to have creatures all the time? it's a 4-damage WoG-proof dude that recurs. Another Flame Javelin, but better

Figure Of Destiny why not, if we're going to throw in just it's that good, i really can't say no... rather for late-game use (when we're out of gas) than for dropping t1, imo. plus, not being monored could cause some problem in playing its second ability. besides all, it works good, a little less in a R/B, but still good.

i don't see any use of Thoughtseize here, i mean not any real use besides playing it just because it's overpowered (like "splash black for blossom" and "splash green green for goyf"). could fit in a sb for a heavy lifespam meta, for witch we already got Everlasting Torment.

Infest over Pyroclasm is just a good choice.

for your happiness, here's an updated list with some of your hints

it looks like a perfect 200$ deck, but hey, it should perform better than first version.



Mountain
6 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swamp" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Swamp">Swamp</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Graven+Cairns" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Graven+Cairns">Graven Cairns</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mogg+Fanatic" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Mogg+Fanatic">Mogg Fanatic</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Figure+Of+Destiny" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Figure+Of+Destiny">Figure Of Destiny</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin+Deathraiders" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Goblin+Deathraiders">Goblin Deathraiders</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashenmoor+Gouger" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Ashenmoor+Gouger">Ashenmoor Gouger</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hell%27s+Thunder" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Hell%27s+Thunder">Hell's Thunder</a>
3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Viscera+Dragger" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Viscera+Dragger">Viscera Dragger</a>
3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demigod+Of+Revenge" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Demigod+Of+Revenge">Demigod Of Revenge</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shock" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Shock">Shock</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Incinerate" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Incinerate">Incinerate</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blightning" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Blightning">Blightning</a>
3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flame+Javelin" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Flame+Javelin">Flame Javelin</a>




3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thoughtseize" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Thoughtseize">Thoughtseize</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Infest" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Infest">Infest</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Everlasting+Torment" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Everlasting+Torment">Everlasting Torment</a>

[/deck]
Hell's Thunder is anything but a "Flame Javelin but better." Chump blocking it with BB token/Spectrial Procession Token is not hard at all. The only time I could consider it worth it is if you're running Nameless Inversion to turn it to 7 damage rather than 4 since that's easily the difference between winning and not winning.

Blightning is very iffy too. It does nothing for board position and even if it hits 2 cards out of WW and gets the 3 damage, you're still looking at Stillmoon Cavaliers/FoDs/etc on the board. Simply put, you're not going to out race them by going +1 on them since most of your guys against them are outmatched. Even against QnT/CnT, the -2 cards are just going to get replaced immediately by Mulldrifter/CC assuming you even resolve the Blightning to begin with.

Goblin Deathriders is just plain bad. Any WW deck will just toss a Stillmoon or Knight in front of it and ta-dah, you're -1 with no damage. Assuming you'll have removal for all their problem guys is just setting yourself up for disappointment. Against control, Kitchen Finks are going to be ahead of it as well once again assuming it doesn't die to random spot removal. The only pluses to this guy is that he takes down Wren's Run Vanquisher and he's immune to Shreikmaw/Terror.

Test Viscera Dragger before playing it. With no evasion, he's beyond trash. Worse game 2/3 when they bring in Relic of Prognetius for Demigod and him.

Running less than 4 Demigod = Fail

Stigma Lasher > Everlasting Torment. Reactive cards that don't supply tempo never belong in RDW unless it says "I win" on it. Torment stops Finks in QnT/CnT (Cruel Ultimatum sort of in CnT) and that's about it. Doesn't stop Runed Halo fully either since they can say Flame Javelin or Blightning and you've just lost 4 cards for their 1 (Flame Javelin is a sort of as you can still target creatures). If you want to stop Finks, run Punture Blast. It helps out against big threats like Doran as well.
Here is the version I am thinking of taking to FNM:

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Boggart Ram-gang
2 Ashenmoor Gouger
4 Demigod of Revenge

4 Shock
4 Incinerate
4 Flame Javlin
2 Unwilling Reruite

24 Land

SB:
4 Pyroclasm
4 Vexing Shusher
1 Unwilling Recruite
3 Everlasting Torment
3 Faerie Macabre

I tried playing some black in the deck for blightning, it was pretty good, its just that when you play it against 5 color control you run the risk of letting them put that GWU archangel thing in the gy to mannequin out. I've had the most success with just running RED alone, so I might stick to that until the next major tournament for standard reveals the answer.

In my opinion, this version is quick, solid, and the maindeck unwilling recruites are a suprise to control players sometimes. Also I think maindeck fulminator mages are something to consider.
So . . .
A RDW-variant T16 at the SCG "Win a Cruise" tourney this weekend:

http://www.pbs.org/thinktank/transcript893.html

Do take a look. If the link doesn't work, just go to SCG. I'd post here but my posts are long enough.
Some observations about the deck:
-It's great.
-It's great because it runs Hell's Thunder. I know there is some debate surrounding this card but it, along with DoR, makes it the Scissors to QnTs Paper. Why? You get to recur eight of your dudes; add to that 2-3 Ghitu Encampments and you've got yourself and away team. Yes, Hell's THunder is "sub-par" becuase it's burn on a stick that has to stick then goes away but, unless QnT Condemns/Bant Charms it, it's coming back. CA vs. the king of CA is good.
-It MDs Firespout. I like that but it has no green mana producers. It runs 20 Mountains and some Ghitus. Why can't it run at least four Fire-lit Thickets? And, surely, four Karplusan Forests won't hurt. Seriously: "Firespout (using :g, kill your BB/SP dudes, play Thunder, eat it."
-The other RDW thread (the ginormous one) has been postulating running eight -producing lands (as many on this thread have) so as to SB $eize, Infest and Blighning. The SCG deck didn't do that either.
-The deck didn't run Stigma Lasher. Lots of 3-drops and burn. I think that's good in this meta. Why? because the meta just slowed down substantially and I'd rather have Ram-Gang, Gouger and Thunder rather than cutting one for Stigma Lasher. People at my shop are calling this "Medium Red" for it's midrange-ish approach. I think it's good. I'm Sergeant D and I approve this deck.

I think RDW can splash black or green, with black making more sense in this meta. Notice, though, that the deck didn't need either splash to do very well. Also note that it placed lower than two QnT decks which leads me to believe the Blightning/Seize SB package is in order.
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