Quick 'n Toast

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QUICK 'N TOAST

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This thread is for the discussion of all Quick'n Toast decks.

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[SIZE="3"]What is Quick 'n Toast and how is it played?[/SIZE]

Quick 'n Toast is a deck that was designed for the PT:Hollywood Metagame by the French team of Manuel Bucher, the Ruel Brothers, and Guillaume Wafo-Tapa. It is a Blue-Green based control deck, featuring board control, permission elements, and a Makeshift Mannequin engine - all made possible by the Vivid Land + Reflecting Pool combination. This allows you to play cards with costs as well as others with with consistency.

It's played much like a 5-color Big Mana deck, only with a permission suite. You lead off early with small guys like Kitchen Finks to hold your position on board against aggro, gaining card advantage and accelerating your mana with Mulldrifters and Walls of Roots. You also deny your opponents must-counter spells with Rune Snags and Cryptic Commands. After you stabilize with your removal, you drop a large threat that is a must-answer, and protect it, riding it to victory.

Sample Decklists



Olivier Ruel, Top8 GP: Buenos Aires

3 Cloudthresher
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Mulldrifter
1 Platinum Angel
4 Wall of Roots

4 Careful Consideration
3 Cryptic Command
2 Makeshift Mannequin
2 Pact of Negation
4 Rune Snag
2 Slaughter Pact
3 Firespout
2 Mind Shatter

2 Dreadship Reef
2 Fungal Reaches
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Mystic Gate
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Sunken Ruins
4 Vivid Creek
4 Vivid Grove
4 Yavimaya Coast

1 Cloudthresher
2 Crovax, Ascendant Hero
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pact of Negation
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Damnation
1 Firespout
1 Mind Shatter
2 Teferi's Moat

Guillaume Wafo-Tapa, Day 2 PT: Hollywood

3 Cloudthresher
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Mulldrifter
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
4 Wall of Roots

4 Careful Consideration
4 Cryptic Command
3 Makeshift Mannequin
4 Rune Snag
2 Slaughter Pact
3 Firespout

1 Dreadship Reef
2 Fungal Reaches
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Mystic Gate
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Sunken Ruins
4 Vivid Creek
4 Vivid Grove
4 Yavimaya Coast

1 Cloudthresher
1 Detritivore
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Shriekmaw
3 Wispmare
3 Mind Shatter
2 Primal Command
3 Teferi's Moat

Mark Herberholz 2008 U.S. Nationals Top 8

1 Adarkar Wastes
2 Dreadship Reef
4 Flooded Grove
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Sunken Ruins
4 Vivid Creek
4 Vivid Grove

3 Cloudthresher
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Mulldrifter
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Nucklavee
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
4 Wall of Roots

3 Careful Consideration
4 Cryptic Command
1 Damnation
4 Firespout
2 Makeshift Mannequin
4 Rune Snag
1 Slaughter Pact

1 Cloudthresher
4 Condemn
1 Damnation
3 Extirpate
1 Pact of Negation
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Teferi's Moat
2 Wispmare


MrIndigo/Denali/Arcengal's Pancake Stacks Variant

This variant cuts all the permission elements and replaces them with bomb-like must-answers. It got Arcengal an invite to his Nationals after he won the Glasgow Regionals with it.

Martin McGowan (Arcengal)- Winner Glasgow Regionals

3 Cloudthresher
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Kitchen Finks
4 Mulldrifter
3 Murderous Redcap
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
2 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Wall of Roots

3 Makeshift Mannequin
2 Slaughter Pact
4 Firespout
3 Primal Command
2 Profane Command

1 Dreadship Reef
2 Fire-Lit Thicket
2 Fungal Reaches
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Llanowar Wastes
4 Reflecting Pool
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Vivid Grove
4 Vivid Marsh
1 Yavimaya Coast

2 Crovax, Ascendant Hero
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Shriekmaw
3 Damnation
2 Mind Shatter
2 Teferi's Moat

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Matchups

Favorable:

Elves
Red
RB Tokens

Average:

Faeries
Merfolk
Doran
Ramp
Quick 'n Toast
Aussie Swans

Unfavorable

Reveillark
Personally, I think that all of the DTB threads could be structured this way. I don't think it's really necessary to have all the flashy banners and colored dividers. They distract you from what matters - decklists and discussion. Card selections can be found via the sample decklists, and people can actually discuss the roles of cards in the deck and whether or not they're fit for the archetype.

As far as QNT goes, I think that the new build with PlatzPact is much better, and also the innovation of the new Persecute, Mind Shatter. This card goes a long way in the MD, helping the awful Reveillark matchup while also being solid elsewhere, and another counter-or-get-wrecked for Faeries and Merfolk.

One change I would definetely make is adding the 4th Cryptic to Ruel's list. The card is a gamebreaker, and I see no reason to run 3 when you could easily cut a Consideration for the 4th. Consideration isn't so hot when you're only running 2 Mannequin, and you still have 7 ways to get card advantage (Mulldrifter) while adding more permission and a gamebreaking spell in the form of Command.
Point is, why isn't this in the DtB exactly? Atma knows?
Point is, why isn't this in the DtB exactly? Atma knows?

I would wager a guess its because until GP Buenos Aires it hadn't placed in anything of note? I'd go farther and say that 1 top 8 finish shouldn't immediately vault a deck into the DtB section just because everyone is trying to play it.

... And it does not win major events somehow in spite of the following.

I play in a very competitive meta, over 70% DtB and over 90% netdecked off these forums... and the Quick N Toast decks to my knowledge haven't won any of the type 2s yet. One guy who was running it the first time I played him didn't run it the second time. I asked him why and his response was, "Its been too inconsistent; Faeries is just better."

To be fair, I can count more top 8 placings in events of significance (regionals) for crappy MBC than Quick N Toast... and it doesn't even have an Archetype tag.

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I would wager a guess its because until GP Buenos Aires it hadn't placed in anything of note? I'd go farther and say that 1 top 8 finish shouldn't immediately vault a deck into the DtB section just because everyone is trying to play it.

... And it does not win major events somehow in spite of the following.

Toast had several T8s at Regionals as well as the T8 at Buenos Aires. Also, even though it didn't get in the Top 8, Quick n' Toast had 4 Day 2s at Hollywood. That should not be underestimated.

I play in a very competitive meta, over 70% DtB and over 90% netdecked off these forums... and the Quick N Toast decks to my knowledge haven't won any of the type 2s yet. One guy who was running it the first time I played him didn't run it the second time. I asked him why and his response was, "Its been too inconsistent; Faeries is just better."

Your local metagame and one player's opinion is irrelevant when determining whether or not QNT is a deck to beat.
To be fair, I can count more top 8 placings in events of significance (regionals) for crappy MBC than Quick N Toast... and it doesn't even have an Archetype tag.

Really? According to SCG, Toast had 11 top 8s at Regionals (MBC had 6) in addition to the GP.
QnT really did awful at Regionals with like, 2 Top 4s.

It is an incredibly hard deck to play however.
I'm pretty sure that this deck isn't in the DtB because of the fact that it is so hard to play correctly that it ends up not doing well. Most of the better players out there just find it easier on themselves to play Faeries, GB Elves, etc.

This is one of those decks that rewards people for putting in the time with it. Problem is, not very many people are either able or willing to do that.
Point is, why isn't this in the DtB exactly? Atma knows?

This isn't in the DtB because the thread wasn't made.

I also believe you are missing the point that a DtB thread is there to help beginners learn about the decklist.

...that being said, I'm going to add this thread to the DtB, upon all cards in the OP being autocarded and under the stipulation that it will be made more pleasing to look at.
2:25 PM sneakattackkid: my basics are worth more... 5:21 PM Nighthavk_: I was splitting more 8-4s than a hooker splits her legs. 11:42 PM Nighthavk_: because honestly, your opponent may be caw, but he'll probably be a drooling idiot who just found out porn exists.
Good to hear that this is finally getting DtB status.

Toast can be difficult to play at times but it's solid against the entire meta. The only difficulty I ever find is in SBing sometimes.
Maybe someone who can play QnT could make a "How to Play" segment with some general tips and/or pointers. I know it wouldn't magically make everyone QnT pilot geniuses or mini-Wafo Tapas, but I bet it will still help.
Umm, so I don't really frequent these forums any more, but I do blog for my website Greatplay.net.
Is it acceptable to discuss the variation that Arcengal, Joker, and I play (Pancakes)?

It's more or less the same deck, but it drops the permission and runs on broken must-counters instead, and thus plays a little differently. It's very similar to what became the Block format "Ten Commandments".
QnT really did awful at Regionals with like, 2 Top 4s.

True, but, according to SCG's deck database and verified by the list of Regionals decklists on the main Magic website, QnT had 10 Top 8s at Regionals, though very few people actually qualified with the deck.
It is an incredibly hard deck to play however.

Agreed on this point.
Is it acceptable to discuss the variation that Arcengal, Joker, and I play (Pancakes)?

It's more or less the same deck, but it drops the permission and runs on broken must-counters instead, and thus plays a little differently. It's very similar to what became the Block format "Ten Commandments".

I would like to see said decklist. Permission is boring :P .
My list is trivially different from Joker's, and I haven't seen Arcengal's list since he won (or 2nd Placed, don't recall) Glasgow Regionals with it.

// Lands
2 [SHM] Fire-Lit Thicket
3 [LRW] Vivid Grove
2 [TSP] Fungal Reaches
1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 [SHM] Reflecting Pool
2 [SHM] Wooded Bastion
2 [TSP] Dreadship Reef
3 [LRW] Vivid Marsh
2 [LRW] Vivid Crag
3 [EVE] Twilight Mire

// Creatures
2 [10E] Siege-Gang Commander
4 [TSB] Wall of Roots
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
2 [SHM] Murderous Redcap
3 [LRW] Cloudthresher
3 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
1 [SHM] Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
2 [MOR] Chameleon Colossus

// Spells
2 [LRW] Profane Command
3 [LRW] Primal Command
3 [LRW] Makeshift Mannequin
2 [SHM] Firespout
2 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
2 [PLC] Damnation

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
SB: 1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
SB: 1 [SHM] Firespout
SB: 1 [PLC] Damnation
SB: 2 [MOR] Mind Shatter
SB: 2 [PLC] Crovax, Ascendant Hero
SB: 2 [TSB] Teferi's Moat
SB: 2 [LRW] Wispmare
SB: 3 [LE] Withered Wretch

It can't stall out the early game quite as easily as permission-QaT, so it's a bit more reliant on making early land drops. It doesn't usually have a problem with that, though.

If I were to add a 61st card, it would probably be Coalition Relic.

Also, when I was running it initially (pre-Toast manabase, right after I had been playing UG and GW Big Mana decks with Erasmus), I was running Platinum Angel as a singleton. I cut it, though, because I felt too much of the format could just ignore it. Elves frequently just Slaughter Pacted or occasionally Profaned, and swung; it didn't resolve against Fae and when it did, it was no better than a thresher or any other of the must-counter cards; Merfolk just waited for their Cryptic Command as they normally did; RDW just double burned; etc.

You could still run it over one of the other Primal hits.
Here is the tech for Quick n' Toast: Knollspine Invocation.

Really.
Here is the tech for Quick n' Toast: Knollspine Invocation.

Really.

Also this, at least in game 1.
Seems kinda silly. How's it test.
And for the heck of it, here's my sideboard.

3 Merderous Redcap
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Wispmare
2 Primal Command
2 Teferi's Moat
1 Firespout
1 Slaughter Pact
True, but, according to SCG's deck database and verified by the list of Regionals decklists on the main Magic website, QnT had 10 Top 8s at Regionals, though very few people actually qualified with the deck.

Agreed on this point.

Well based on that staggering statistic I'd say it still shouldn't count as a DtB. 10 isn't much higher than 6 considering the quantity of regionals that were held. Did anyone *win* a regionals with it? What was the list, as I think it'd be very important to post it here if we're trying to get this into the DtB sub-forum.

And day 2 Hollywood isn't to be discounted, but I thought none of the lists even broke top 20?

My single opinion is irrelevant in determining whether or not this is to become a DtB. But I am basing my evaluation on what I've read on stickies on how a deck becomes a DtB, not just conjecture.

As a final point, I only volunteered my local meta because its typically a perfect slice of a PT and it out-strips what we'd call a FNM in competitive play by leaps and bounds.... and while it wasn't meant to be an end-all be-all piece of evidence to support my point, the data I've collected (if you will) from it is relevant. But I won't mention it again.

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2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Seems kinda silly. How's it test.

I've played against it a few times, only tested it a little bit. Because noone has removal for it MD, it tends to be "5UU: I win the game." in Game 1, but you need to replace it with big creatures like Oona in Game 2, when they brought in their enchantment hate.
hmm
QnT always just felt like a bad Reveillark deck to me.

It didn't really do anything similar...
Well based on that staggering statistic I'd say it still shouldn't count as a DtB. 10 isn't much higher than 6 considering the quantity of regionals that were held. Did anyone *win* a regionals with it? What was the list, as I think it'd be very important to post it here if we're trying to get this into the DtB sub-forum.

Here are the decklists from Regionals. The link from SCG won't work for some reason, but you should be able to find the QnT decks pretty quickly.
And day 2 Hollywood isn't to be discounted, but I thought none of the lists even broke top 20?

GWT got 13th and Bucher got 17th.

My single opinion is irrelevant in determining whether or not this is to become a DtB. But I am basing my evaluation on what I've read on stickies on how a deck becomes a DtB, not just conjecture.

The sticky now just mentions tournaments results, but i do remember there being an old sticky before that said how DtBs were chosen. Maybe that one said something different.

As a final point, I only volunteered my local meta because its typically a perfect slice of a PT and it out-strips what we'd call a FNM in competitive play by leaps and bounds.... and while it wasn't meant to be an end-all be-all piece of evidence to support my point, the data I've collected (if you will) from it is relevant. But I won't mention it again.

I agree that it is relevant. It is probably useful to the people discussing the deck. Its just that it isn't really important to deciding whether QnT deserves to go in the subforum.
This isn't in the DtB because the thread wasn't made.

I also believe you are missing the point that a DtB thread is there to help beginners learn about the decklist.

...that being said, I'm going to add this thread to the DtB, upon all cards in the OP being autocarded and under the stipulation that it will be made more pleasing to look at.

I'll autocard them.

How would I make it "more pleasing to look at?" More bells and whistles?

Srsly, are dividers and banners really necessary?

When you think about it, they aren't. But as you wish, I'll add more things for aesthetics (sp?).
My list is trivially different from Joker's, and I haven't seen Arcengal's list since he won (or 2nd Placed, don't recall) Glasgow Regionals with it.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=25498

Pretty much the same as it was. No idea what I'd change for Eventide.
Pretty much the same as it was. No idea what I'd change for Eventide.

You add new filter lands.
You add new filter lands.

Yeah, that's what Joker and I did. +2 Twilight Mire FTW.
Horray, Quick 'n Toast is now a DtB!
Umm, so I don't really frequent these forums any more, but I do blog for my website Greatplay.net.
Here's my latest list, in case I ever decide to run QnT at FNM again (aka let every single match go to time and extra turns).


Oona's in there for decks that you know are running Terror and to swap out for threshers in matchups where it sucks.

Colossus is a beating. And, oh yeah, he's the card that this deck can never let resolve against it anyways. More QnT decks should run him.

If the manabase sucks, it's my problem because I'm horrible with those.

EDIT: Forgot to sideboard Graveyard hate. I gotta figure out where that's going.
Current decks: Type II: B/R Vampires Extended: Modern: U/G Scapeshift 1.5: Ichorid, Elf Combo
QnT always just felt like a bad Reveillark deck to me.

It looks more like a Big Mana deck to me, and it does the same types of things, but with more greedy mana base and control elements.
Maybe someone who can play QnT could make a "How to Play" segment with some general tips and/or pointers. I know it wouldn't magically make everyone QnT pilot geniuses or mini-Wafo Tapas, but I bet it will still help.

I agree. Now QnT is a DtB I think the thread should have a short introduction to the deck, telling players what it is, how it is played and why and how it is strong in the current meta. Some match-ups would be great too, since I would like to know how this deck works against Faeries and Lark.
I agree. Now QnT is a DtB I think the thread should have a short introduction to the deck, telling players what it is, how it is played and why and how it is strong in the current meta. Some match-ups would be great too, since I would like to know how this deck works against Fairies and Lark.

Faeries and Lark are eh match ups. Toast steamrolls aggro.
Guys, I want to add a how to sideboard section (using Ruel's list as the guide), can anyone help me with this? I'm a notoriously bad sideboarder, and it'd be nice to have a section to help others that are like me.
Faeries and Lark are eh match ups. Toast steamrolls aggro.

Actually it was designed to beat Fae. One of the hottest debate about QnT is if it did win over Fae out of surprise effect or if it generally does so.

Also, the unability to kill Doran, Colossus and other fatties proved a weak point in some games at Hollywood, which bring in the question of how good is QnT vs Elf Rock and midrange in general.
I would think that a few adjustments could fix the fattie problem, but I haven't played the deck enough to really know.

I do know that the matchup against Elves is suppose to be in Elves favor a good bit.
Actually it was designed to beat Fae. One of the hottest debate about QnT is if it did win over Fae out of surprise effect or if it generally does so.

Which, like most debates on these boards, is easily solved if you just test the bloody deck in the first place.
Which, like most debates on these boards, is easily solved if you just test the bloody deck in the first place.

Not really. Most Fae's pilots are awful or at least a lot worse then the deck they're playing. I played QnT against Fae and won easily, but I'm not ready to testify that Toast is superior, honestly.
Not really. Most Fae's pilots are awful or at least a lot worse then the deck they're playing. I played QnT against Fae and won easily, but I'm not ready to testify that Toast is superior, honestly.

Testing isn't really one game on the internet. Testing is sitting down and playing 10 (preferably more) games with someone you know, or alternatively with yourself playing both sides of the match if a testing partner isn't available. You're absolutely right in that you can't fire up an internet game, win it, and declare that your deck has a good matchup against Faeries.
Actually it was designed to beat Fae. One of the hottest debate about QnT is if it did win over Fae out of surprise effect or if it generally does so.

Also, the unability to kill Doran, Colossus and other fatties proved a weak point in some games at Hollywood, which bring in the question of how good is QnT vs Elf Rock and midrange in general.

Not quite. It was found to have a 50+%ish matchup with Fae, and that was as good as anything had at the time. Elves it can usually handle, but it does have a problem with stuff like Doran and Colossus.

It was for that reason Jok3R and I added Damnations to our build.

Also, if people want I can put a simple primer together for this deck (both QaT and Pancakes), but I'm not good with SBing for the not-mine lists, and not even that good with my own.
It was for that reason Jok3R and I added Damnations to our build.

Just like I did!

Glad to know I did at least something useful for teh pancakes.
Also, if people want I can put a primer together for Pancakes.

I'd be interested in seeing this.
There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.