[Archetype] Mono Black Control

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Introduction



What is Mono-Black Control (MBC)? It's a hybrid Mid-Range Control Deck that focuses on early game disruption of your opponent's plays to reach the point where you can begin dropping significant, must-answer threats that are typically either resistant to removal or create an uncalculatable clock for your opponent. There are many variations of the list, but this thread will focus on the tier 1 list while acknowledging competitive alternates.

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Card Choices



Creatures

Tier 1 Creatures

Demigod of Revenge ~ A strong winner in the tier 1 lists.

Dusk Urchins ~ Provides strong card draw that we can easily force through with spot removal.

Stillmoon Cavalier ~ A super efficient creature. He dodges all removal and once board position is established can be ridden single handedly to a win.

Fulminator Mage ~ Provides CA and early game disruption when necessary. Excellent maindeck, but also nice sideboard.

Razormane Masticore ~ an excellent response to Chameleon Colossus. He also wrecks aggro. Loves Noobsticks and long walks on the beach.

Oona, Queen of the Fae ~ She quickly destroys mono color decks when allowed to exist on the board. She is a solid presence at 5/5 and evades very well. She is experiencing usage as a tutor target in several regions top 8 lists.

Bottle Gnomes ~ Primarily used as a sideboard card to stabilize our shaky early game vs. R/x decks. Turn 3 Gnomes into Turn 4 Tendrils should = scoopsville.



Competitive Alternatives

Hypnotic Specter ~ A lesser used player these days as discard has fallen off. Still a menace that must be answered if played.

Puppeteer Clique ~ Should experience sideboard usage only. This card shines when able to steal opposing Larks and net your two cards and remove the pesky guy from the game. Its also relevant with its ability to steal even a CC from a graveyard. Due to its highly situational and conditional power its not considered a Tier 1 card.




Spells

Tier 1 Spells

Thoughtseize ~ Excellent Disruption.

Bitterblossom ~ Wincon, early stall/defense. Answers opposing Bitterblossom mediocrely.

Profane Command ~ Should make every list as a 2x-3x. 4x is too many, 1x is too few.

Terror ~ The ideal removal in the current meta.

Nameless Inversion ~ Removal that's fallen the wayside, but is excellent with Haakon.

Corrupt ~ Powerful wincon with an invisible clock. Your deck must be able to survive to turn 6 to begin profitting from it however.

Beseech the Queen ~ An excellent tutor with minimal downside. Can be used turn 3 or 4 to set up a double corrupt finish or to just get land.



Competitive Alternatives

Cruel Edict - An answer to Chameleon Colossus that has to be carefully set up. Therefore not a tier 1 answer.

Deathmark ~ A lot more efficient than Sudden Death, but more limited. More often than not just a SB card, but a very good one. Our main Doran answer.

Incremental Blight ~ A card that bears a lot of potential... once Damnation is gone. Its perks are that it hoses up persisters such as the finks and synergizes with the Urchins if you don't have a good third target on the board. Potential for better than 5 for 1 CA. Board Wipe + Hand Reload = Exceedingly decent.




Miscellaneous

Pithing Needle ~ A terrific sideboard card.

Loxodon Warhammer ~ Korlash's best friend!

Mind Stone ~ Mana + Cycle. Not bad.

Trip Noose or Icy Manipulator ~ answers to Chameleon Colossus that are not permanent, and thus not a tier 1 response.


Lands/Mana Base

Swamps ~ ...

Leechridden Swamp ~ Still a swamp to be tutored for with Korlash.

Mutavault ~ Terrific in mono color builds, but necessitates Urborgs to keep from watering down Korlash.



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Decklists



Tier 1 Lists

Look at me, there are none... yet!


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Match-ups



Match-ups

If you're planning on playing MBC in a competitive meta or large tournament the number one piece of advice you need is to read and fully understand the Decks to Beat and how they win. If you're going to go in without complete prep time the sections below will assist you somewhat based on my understandings of the lists. You must also learn how to identify a deck quickly based on lands/color mix and early drops.

This section is under construction due to the new meta.

Faeries

I won't waste time with misusing percentages. Here's what any MBC player needs to have a perfect comprehension of going into the game against faeries:
1. Their counter suite is not foolproof except for Cryptic Command. Consider Broken Ambitions power and Spellstutter strength before every play and count mana to activate man-lands thoroughly.
2. The dependance on triple U makes it something to keep an eye on. If you can attack the mana base by destroying a conclave or fulminator on a glen after they miss a land drop, it is a powerful disruption.
3. Play Terror and Executioner's Capsule/Unmake to avoid being Time Walked and get a free turn.
Step by Step: How to Not get Time Walked

1. They cast Mistbind Clique.
2. You let it resolve unless you *know* you can achieve a 2 for 1 by killing the only viable champ target in response.
3. Clique resolves, Champion goes on the stack.
4. You respond by killing the Clique.
5. Clique dies, Champion resolves. Good Faerie players choose to not champion and so nothing else happens.
6. Bad Faerie players Champion a permanent which removes it permanently from the game.
7. Clique is not in play to trigger the time walk from the successful champion.
8. Profit.

4. Against us playing creatures can be a futile effort game 1, so do not hesitate to destroy attacking man-lands. They will get you.

If you keep in mind the above during play and do not try to force a spell without a significant threat to chase it then you can win quite easily. Key cards for us are: Instant Speed Removal, Bitterblossom, Demigods, Korlash, Loxodon Warhammer. Corrupt to the face and Profane to the face are quite excellent and evoke angry scoops and mumbles of "Rip" from the opposition.


G/b Elves

This deck runs an aggro with token generation and access to the best removal in standard... black removal. The keys:
1. Their removal is dead against us, excepting profane command.
2. Kill Vanquishers to protect our big guys.
3. Watch for the vaunted Chameleon Colossus. You need a sacrifice effect, icy effect, or a large artifact creature to handle him. Double Infest won't cut it.



R/x decks

These decks run a varying mix of burn and weenies with the goal to kill us by turn 6-7 at the latest. The keys:
1. Remove all weenies indiscriminately. Live to turn 5.
2. Let them throw burn to your face and lose CA. Do not panic until your life total < #cards in their hand * 2. Very important you do not panic.
3. Warhammer or Corrupt seals their fate.

No further commentary needed.



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Notable Contributors:
-Banshee and Aarondardik for the original postings, I adapted some formatting and comments so the content of the new thread is majorly my commentary, but some holdovers may be here.
-Thread posters and players too numerous to list
-Volacide's terrific banner which needs... some adjustments.
-Hodoku's AMAZING dividers are used in this thread.

The original thread may be found here.

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Changelog:
7/15/2008 - New Thread Created.
7/15/2008 - Linked to previous thread for historical information.
7/15/2008 - Added 2008 Regionals Top 8 Decks placing 5th or higher.
7/22/2008 - Added current Decks to Beat Matchup Information.
10/21/2008 - Removed all rotated info from the OP. More cleanup to follow.

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Cool...now we can have a more focused thread. I say one of the first things to do would be to list a deck that everyone can base of off like your deck for example.
Not my list.

We'll use one from the Regionals that placed in Top 8 or won outright because of its success in a larger meta.

My list performs fine in a ~30 player environment, but is unproven in a larger field. I would like to keep that kind of clutter off the OP.

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Not my list.

We'll use one from the Regionals that placed in Top 8 or won outright because of its success in a larger meta.

My list performs fine in a ~30 player environment, but is unproven in a larger field. I would like to keep that kind of clutter off the OP.

Alrighty then...I guess I'll wait until the OP is complete to get the creative juices flowing.
Found the list I was after, edited into OP.

We're pretty good to go now, I'll get match-up info filled out based on personal experience soon.

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2011 States Top 4
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Mono B by Markus Krone 6th
creature [8]
4 Demigod of Revenge
3 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
instant [11]
1 Extirpate
2 Slaughter Pact
4 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Terror
sorcery [9]
3 Beseech the Queen
2 Damnation
4 Thoughtseize
enchantment [3]
3 Bitterblossom
artifact [5]
4 Coldsteel Heart
1 Loxodon Warhammer
land [24]
2 Scrying Sheets
21 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
60 cards
Sideboard:
2 Bottle Gnomes
3 Extirpate
3 Nameless Inversion
1 Cruel Edict
2 Damnation
3 Distress
1 Pithing Needle


Snow Black Control by James Corwood 4th
creature [14]
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Dusk Urchins
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
2 Shriekmaw
instant [4]
3 Tendrils of Corruption
1 Terror
sorcery [10]
3 Beseech the Queen
3 Damnation
4 Thoughtseize
enchantment [3]
3 Bitterblossom
artifact [6]
2 Coldsteel Heart
2 Loxodon Warhammer
2 Phyrexian Totem
land [23]
1 Leechridden Swamp
2 Mouth of Ronom
2 Scrying Sheets
16 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
60 cards
Sideboard:
3 Extirpate
2 Sudden Death
2 Sudden Spoiling
1 Tendrils of Corruption
2 Terror
1 Damnation
2 Deathmark
2 Mind Shatter


MBC by Markus Magera 7th
creature [6]
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Razormane Masticore
instant [9]
2 Nameless Inversion
3 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Terror
sorcery [14]
3 Beseech the Queen
3 Corrupt
4 Damnation
4 Thoughtseize
enchantment [4]
4 Bitterblossom
artifact [1]
1 Pithing Needle
land [26]
2 Leechridden Swamp
2 Mouth of Ronom
3 Scrying Sheets
17 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
60 cards
Sideboard:
3 Bottle Gnomes
3 Extirpate
2 Mind Shatter
3 Stupor
2 Loxodon Warhammer
2 Trip Noose


Mono Black Control by Richard Marriott 4th
creature [12]
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Dusk Urchins
3 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
1 Razormane Masticore
instant [6]
3 Nameless Inversion
3 Tendrils of Corruption
sorcery [12]
4 Beseech the Queen
2 Corrupt
4 Damnation
2 Profane Command
enchantment [3]
3 Bitterblossom
artifact [3]
2 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Trip Noose
land [24]
2 Leechridden Swamp
22 Swamp
60 cards
Sideboard:
4 Extirpate
3 Slaughter Pact
2 Cruel Edict
1 Mind Shatter
2 Pithing Needle
2 Trip Noose
1 Whispersilk Cloak


Snow Black by Chris Carolan 5th
creature [9]
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
instant [7]
1 Extirpate
1 Sudden Death
2 Tendrils of Corruption
3 Terror
sorcery [11]
3 Beseech the Queen
4 Damnation
4 Thoughtseize
enchantment [3]
3 Bitterblossom
artifact [5]
4 Coldsteel Heart
1 Loxodon Warhammer
land [25]
1 Leechridden Swamp
1 Mouth of Ronom
2 Scrying Sheets
20 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
60 cards
Sideboard:
4 Bottle Gnomes
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Grim Poppet
1 Midnight Banshee
2 Extirpate
1 Tendrils of Corruption
1 Terror
2 Corrupt
1 Mind Shatter


Mono Black Control by Heath Baker 8th
creature [6]
4 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Shriekmaw
instant [10]
3 Nameless Inversion
3 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Terror
sorcery [14]
2 Beseech the Queen
4 Corrupt
4 Damnation
4 Thoughtseize
enchantment [4]
4 Bitterblossom
land [26]
2 Leechridden Swamp
2 Mouth of Ronom
3 Scrying Sheets
17 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
60 cards
Sideboard:
3 Bottle Gnomes
2 Extirpate
3 Peppersmoke
1 Deathmark
2 Mind Shatter
3 Stupor
1 Trip Noose

Here ya are i think these are all the top 8 decks from qualifiers.
I would put a couple more lists up for a little diversity.
PS: i love banner!
Might want to add Cruel Edict on there somewhere. When it comes to facing down a Chameleon Colossus, the OP only lists Mouth of Ronom and Damnation as removal for him. Edict, while situational, can do the job as well.
Will add Edict. I also forgot our Razormane, he's an excellent solution as well.

And Trip Noose gets a nod.

These will be competitive alternatives. The hands-down tier 1 solutions to CC are Damnation and Mouth of Ronom.

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2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Is Corrupt really such a sideboard only card??!!

I run three MB and SD the other. Looking over those lists I see that many, no, most of them dont run it in the main??

Of course I think my meta may be more similar to yours Niche. But I find that it does clutch games more than not.

End of Line
Will add Edict. I also forgot our Razormane, he's an excellent solution as well.

And Trip Noose gets a nod.

These will be competitive alternatives. The hands-down tier 1 solutions to CC are Damnation and Mouth of Ronom.

Three of the lists posted just above list Razormane Masticore in the mainboard. I think that warrants tier-1, honestly. Feel free to disagree.
Is Corrupt really such a sideboard only card??!!

I run three MB and SD the other. Looking over those lists I see that many, no, most of them dont run it in the main??

Of course I think my meta may be more similar to yours Niche. But I find that it does clutch games more than not.

End of Line

Agreed, but I feel their decklists rely on abusing bb tokens with warhammers to win more than a nice face melt. Or Korlash of course.

Razormane to Tier 1.

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Wow. Sexy new thread.

I think MBC is going to have to merge with another color to stay competitive once the rotation occurs. Potential candidates include W and R. I think there is great potential in some of the possibilities provided by splashing W or R.

I guess then it won't be MBC any more though, huh?
Wow. Sexy new thread.

I think MBC is going to have to merge with another color to stay competitive once the rotation occurs. Potential candidates include W and R. I think there is great potential in some of the possibilities provided by splashing W or R.

I guess then it won't be MBC any more though, huh?

Its far too early to speculate what will happen to MBC once the sets rotate. That's 3 months away. So let's not do that yet.

Regarding Eventide I'm not convinced any of the new hybrid or pure black cards will create drastic changes to our decklists. The only questionable card is Unmake, but based on the current meta its just not a top tier choice yet until the meta shifts. Sudden Death and Terror are far and away superior.

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

now where are deity of scars and ashling the extinguisher?
now where are deity of scars and ashling the extinguisher?

I'll add them as Competitive Alternatives once Eventide is legal due to the fact the consensus is they are quite strong. Once they take part in winning a major event they'll jump to the tier 1 list.

The problem is they won't make the jump until Korlash rotates.

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2011 States Top 4
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Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

What MBC really needs is a colorless [C]Terror[/C]. Just as WOTC gave red decks a [C=Ghostfire]colorless Incinerate[/C], black should also have been given a colorless Terror.
Some honorable mentions might be Graveborn muse, Garza's assassin. Also i am going to try to do some play testing of my list vs DTB in preparation for FNM this week, and then i'll send my results your way.
Edit: Err never mind the muse, but i just remembered Mind shatter should be up there too.
other alternatives could be sengir nosferatu and dread--sengir has worked well for me since he dodges all kinds of removal
No love for [C]Stillmoon Cavalier[/C] or [C]Nekrataal[/C]?
No love for [C]Stillmoon Cavalier[/C] or [C]Nekrataal[/C]?

Eh, neither of those are really tier 1. I suppose they could go in the budget section.

@fogdog: Senigr isn't bad, and Dread probably does deserve a mention. He was used in some older top 8 decks.
Dread sees some block play as well. Not MBC mind you, but at least he gets his...

...win more than a nice face melt.

LOL, I like it!!

End of Line
Eventide will make discussion once its legal... so no to Stillmoon.

Nekrataal does not fit. Even the most budget lists will have no room at the 4 curve because they could always run Plague Sliver instead, who is a house. And shriekmaw does everything else he does better.

I don't feel Dread is a competitive alternative due to his cost.

Same for Nosferatu, and his body of 4 makes him very susceptible to removal unless you wait for 7 mana.

Garza is similar, big mana cost, ability is delivered better by other creatures like Shriekmaw.

To be honest, these are cards I removed from the last OP because they just don't make the cut. I've seen no reports of anyone winning a FNM running these guys, let alone a decent sized type 2 or even a large event.

I think we're welcome to discuss on this thread the value of these cards, but I'll not add a card to the OP just because its worked well for you... in other words... you'll need to prove it. Detailed tourney reports and standings. I want to see an approximation of how many people were there. If you didn't win, what deck did?

I'd like to earn this thread an Archetype labelling. Its placed well at very large events (Regionals) and is something everyone needs to keep in mind... its just not recognized yet. Let's keep our focus and get it there.

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2011 States Top 4
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Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Why isn't Bottle Gnomes in the OP?

Has Nightmare Incursion seemed useful at all to anyone?

EDIT: Alright, alright, no EVE discussion. Bottle Gnomes are worth mentioning though.
Bottle Gnomes added to OP under Tier 1 Creatures.

Thanks for the catch, keep this coming everyone. I'd like the OP to be perfect for everything pre-eventide before the release weekend so we can address it alone.

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2011 States Top 4
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Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Eventide will make discussion once its legal... so no to Stillmoon.

Nekrataal does not fit. Even the most budget lists will have no room at the 4 curve because they could always run Plague Sliver instead, who is a house. And shriekmaw does everything else he does better.

I don't feel Dread is a competitive alternative due to his cost.

Same for Nosferatu, and his body of 4 makes him very susceptible to removal unless you wait for 7 mana.

Garza is similar, big mana cost, ability is delivered better by other creatures like Shriekmaw.

To be honest, these are cards I removed from the last OP because they just don't make the cut. I've seen no reports of anyone winning a FNM running these guys, let alone a decent sized type 2 or even a large event.

I think we're welcome to discuss on this thread the value of these cards, but I'll not add a card to the OP just because its worked well for you... in other words... you'll need to prove it. Detailed tourney reports and standings. I want to see an approximation of how many people were there. If you didn't win, what deck did?

I'd like to earn this thread an Archetype labelling. Its placed well at very large events (Regionals) and is something everyone needs to keep in mind... its just not recognized yet. Let's keep our focus and get it there.

I agree, except for the Garza's. He was used some top 8 list a while back, and does something way different from Shriekmaw. You drop he turn 3 chump, and sac him before dmg step, saving you the dmg from what he blocked as well as taking out another creature. I find him to be very useful, though really only as SB card.
Incremental Blight is the poor man's Damnation and may play extremely well with Necroskitter when eventide becomes legal. It also plays quite well with Dusk Urchins. Its always seems good when I play it, usually acting as a one-sided wrath or 'nation. Consideration for alternate cards, as its not quite Tier 1 quality.
Anyone tried smolder initiate yet? It seems like it would be a good one drop and gives you stuff to do with your extra mana.
Anyone tried smolder initiate yet? It seems like it would be a good one drop and gives you stuff to do with your extra mana.

The only 1cc card worth using (in my opinion) is Thoughtseize
Smolder Initiate doesn't control or fit our mid-rangyness.

I'll add Incremental Blight to the OP, I've been fond of its use with Dusk Urchins in the R/B Antiquin thread as it does have potential to generate 5 for 1s or better, which is sick. It'd be my card of choice if we didn't have Damnation because it'd free up our 4 curve. It may be our only saving grace post rotation... how do we keep getting back to that anyway?

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Smolder Initiate doesn't control or fit our mid-rangyness.

I'll add Incremental Blight to the OP, I've been fond of its use with Dusk Urchins in the R/B Antiquin thread as it does have potential to generate 5 for 1s or better, which is sick. It'd be my card of choice if we didn't have Damnation because it'd free up our 4 curve. It may be our only saving grace post rotation... how do we keep getting back to that anyway?

I agree that Initiate doesn't fit. An extra damage here and there can easily be handled by Leechridden Swamp, which is a lot more resistant to removal.

We do keep getting back to the rotation topic, Niche. It seems to be coming up fast.
yea we loose some great cards (damnation) and good replacements seem few and far between. I think that shards will have a decent replacement however.
I'll add Incremental Blight to the OP, I've been fond of its use with Dusk Urchins in the R/B Antiquin thread as it does have potential to generate 5 for 1s or better, which is sick. It'd be my card of choice if we didn't have Damnation because it'd free up our 4 curve. It may be our only saving grace post rotation... how do we keep getting back to that anyway?

Because it's important to the survival of the deck. The more we brainstorm what we can do post-rotation, the better we'll be once we lose our current staples. I don't see the point in ignoring it.
Let's try to stay off of rotation and Eventide talk until we get the thread completed with everything prior. There is plenty of time for all of that later.

Focus!
Eventide will make discussion once its legal... so no to Stillmoon.

Nekrataal does not fit. Even the most budget lists will have no room at the 4 curve because they could always run Plague Sliver instead, who is a house. And shriekmaw does everything else he does better.

I don't feel Dread is a competitive alternative due to his cost.

Same for Nosferatu, and his body of 4 makes him very susceptible to removal unless you wait for 7 mana.

Garza is similar, big mana cost, ability is delivered better by other creatures like Shriekmaw.

To be honest, these are cards I removed from the last OP because they just don't make the cut. I've seen no reports of anyone winning a FNM running these guys, let alone a decent sized type 2 or even a large event.

I think we're welcome to discuss on this thread the value of these cards, but I'll not add a card to the OP just because its worked well for you... in other words... you'll need to prove it. Detailed tourney reports and standings. I want to see an approximation of how many people were there. If you didn't win, what deck did?

I'd like to earn this thread an Archetype labelling. Its placed well at very large events (Regionals) and is something everyone needs to keep in mind... its just not recognized yet. Let's keep our focus and get it there.

whatever you want to put in the thread is fine, but i feel that its worth mentioning that sengir is good against control for his dodging and against control it is fine to wait for seven mana because you don't need an early blocker

also, i have never used dread, but its cost is the same as oona and nightmare, which are already on the list as alternatives
We can discuss post rotation a little. Especially seeing as we know what the best deck list is based off of and there can be no debates regarding what wins here.

Likely once Damnation goes there will be no black board sweeper. We'll have to work with what we've got now and an in Eventide.

Regarding the Totem... It may be in someone's top 5 list, but... I think they made top 5 in spite of that guy, not because of him. He's slow accel and a dead beater vs. red and someone with blockers or man-lands.

I do not believe he's a tier 1 play. Discuss.

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Regarding the Totem... It may be in someone's top 5 list, but... I think they made top 5 in spite of that guy, not because of him. He's slow accel and a dead beater vs. red and someone with blockers or man-lands.

I do not believe he's a tier 1 play. Discuss.

He'd be a great swing after Damnation, or against an empty board...but I've never even considered him in one of my lists. Most metas right now are just far too aggro based to consider putting in something that punishes you that much against aggro.
I've just been told by someone who's tipped his hand that he plays at the shops I do that I net-decked my MBC list.

How do I take that exactly? :D

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Fix your Forum Experience here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/new-site-feedback/threads/3925861

Boasts?

2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

...well, if he means "Collaborated with people online to tweak your deck to be as optimal as possible." then sure.
I've just been told by someone who's tipped his hand that he plays at the shops I do that I net-decked my MBC list.

How do I take that exactly? :D

My response: "So....I beat you sometime recently?"