[Pre~Archtype] Mono Black Control

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Introduction



Welcome to the Pre-Archtype thread for Mono-Black Control, where you can express your opinion, ask for those of others, or just read and learn about the concept, strengths, and weaknesses of Mono-Black Control. Feel free to ask questions; support for the development of Mono-Black Control as a deck type is greatly appreciated.

What is Mono-Black Control (MBC)? It's a type of deck where you throw disruption of all different types at your opponent in hopes to incapacitate their board position so that your critters can cruise in for an easy win (although there are variations that use spells like consume spirit and its ilk as a wincon). The reason hit hits from all directions is so that it is a more variable deck that, although it is less focused, is more difficult to counter-act. As a result, your opponent will have a very difficult time protecting all aspects of its plan.

Why did I make this thread? Well, first off, I make this post on behalf of aarondardik. Also, I make it because I feel that MBC is in fact viable, and that it hasn't been tested thouroghly enough. Hence, I make a thread dedicated to the developement of MBC into a teir 1 deck.

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Card Choices



The Shadowmoor Spoiler is up, so the cards that work for MBC are in here, now.

creatures

Haakon, Stromgald scourge ~ The Haakon Engine is always welcome (actually, it is highly endorsed). It wrechs fae and aggro, and if you use crusader, then it wrecks control for CA, too.

Oona's Prowler ~ 3 things: A) Apply pressure while your control wrecks her board. B) Discard sub-theme if your opponent shrinks it. C) Gets the Haakon Engine running. The third reason is the most important. If you don't run Haakon, don't run this.

Dusk Urchins ~ Black is having trouble with CA. This card looks like it has potential for MBC. If it blocks/is blocks and it dies, you break even. If it kills the other creature, that's card advantage, and each counter that it accumulates beyond that makes it all the better. Good chumper at worst. (Hint: block wither sometimes)

Graveborn Muse ~ A good beater, and draws cards. Haakon and Korlash are also zombies, and there is lifegaining to couter the life-loss. The edge that dusk urchins has over this is that this card is a major target on its head when the field, Urchins doesn't. This card has fallen out of builds for Dusk Urchins almost completely now. Only decks that run muse aslo run urchins.

Augur of Skulls ~ with a turn 1 Thoughtseize, turn 2 this, and turn 3 sac and Stupor, their hand is wrecked. Oh, and a regenerating chumper in the late-game

Epochrasite ~ best off in the slower games as a chumper that doesn't give up, and COULD actually kill something.

Hypnotic Specter ~ this card can both apply pressure AND ruin your opponent's hand and rid it of threats and answers at the same time. Best of all, they don't get to chose which.

Shimian Specter ~ better choice over Hyppie when coldsteel heart or mind stone is in the deck. These specters have started to fall out of the newer builds due to their vulnerablilty. Unfortunately.

Shriekmaw ~ Solid removal, evoked or not, and a good beater in the latter's situation.

Murderous Redcap ~ Potential 4-for-1? For 4 mana? Uhh... yea? Great in a sideboard VS weenie... also, 2 turns of chumping for 1 critter can help. This passes shriekmaw IMO. And if for some reason you play Bad Moon? Oh, I still haven't mentioned the best part about this card... It can hit the player!

Fulminator Mage ~ In a more LD-Focused deck, this card is a bomb. Even not, it's a potential 2-for-1, one of the 2 is a land! For the same cost as Rain of Tears? Wait... What?

Stromgald Crusader ~ Best with the Haakon Engine in the deck, but also a good card to pull out of the SB against white aggro (kithkin).

Korlash, Heir to Blackblade ~ Best in certain builds (consume spirit and stuff), but without trample, it doesn't get far.

Nightmare ~ Nightmare is to Korlash as Sleipnir is to Odin... sound good? Some say the horse is a good budget version; I say they're better together. Can you guess why? Hmm?

Tombstalker ~ viable finisher, and very playable alongside smallpox.

Plague Sliver ~ regaining popularity, however not within aggro decks, but rather control. With Mind Stone, he's turn 3. The sliver on turn 3 beats korlash any day unless you have #2 for grandeur ready to go at once.

Oona, Queen of the Fae ~ A finisher that can create chumpers so that it doesn't have to hmm? Sounds good to me.

Midnight Banshee ~ A meta-choice finisher; if you see a lot of aggro - namely weenie - this is a good choice.

Demigod of Revenge ~ Okay, this makes Smallpox look really good. You can discard them, sac them, whatever. I'd say it's a pretty good play post-damnation.

Ghastlord of Fugue ~ Underrated IMO. It's a 4/4 unblockable Doomsday Specter for 5 that doesn't bounce... If they can't kill it (because you neutered their hand, or because Nameless Inversion and non-black kill doesn't hit it), it's a good clock.

Dread ~ Its affect in play is less the point... It's the fact that it is a threat that is hard to get rid of for sure.

Offalsnout ~ budget SB version of extirpate.

Withered Wretch ~ More GY hate (better than Offalsnout IMO)

Phyrexian Ironfoot ~ very solid in a snow-build.


spells

Thoughtseize ~ Basically a staple. Do I really need to explain?

Distress ~ Doesn't see much play anymore, as it is basically a budget alternative for thoughtseize. Meh..

Stupor ~ Good card advantage, as it's a two-for-one. Additionally, the first card is random, so that screws there plan a bit more.

Mind Shatter ~ Looks GREAT, but in reality, it needs mana accel to be good, because by the time you pla it, it's not going to be hitting much. But with Mind Stone or Coldsteel Heart, it becomes a powerful card early on.

Smallpox ~ It may look subpar at first glance, but think for a sec. You chose when you play this, so take advantage of it. Play it when only they have a creature, or on their last card in hand... Especially good when it hitting you doesn't have as big of an impact by discarding Haakon, or playing Dakmor Salvage.

Rain of Tears ~ If you want to employ a small LD sub-theme.

Profane Command ~ Almost every Mono Black deck has a use for this card (or 2!) considering there are 4. AT LEAST 2 in your deck, MD or SB.

Damnation ~ An absolute necessity against aggro, as well as many other decks. 3 or 4 between MD and SB.

Nameless Inversion ~ Solid removal, with or without the Haakon Engine. Moots tribal effects on certain carrds if necessary, too.

Tendrils of Corruption ~ This is solid removal that hinders aggro significantly until you gain control, thanks to the life-gain. It basically buys you time in two ways at the same time.

Corrupt ~ Basically, it's a Tendrils that can be used A) post-damn/wrath; and B) as a finisher. Better, IMO.

Rite of Consumption ~ Looks terrible at first glance, but think about it. Saccing Korlash is a 2-mana corrupt that only hits player. Also, Sac a dread, dread gets shuffled. Sac Haakon? Play him back (you get 1 life out of the deal; they loose 3).

Grim Harvest ~ If CA is what you want, this is another place to find it. Even as a 2-of, if you use shriekmaw, it's a killing machine. It can aslo bring beack Urchins for draw, and Korlash for Graneur. Good deal?

Sudden Death ~ With the release of Shadowmoor, it seems like it will be regaining its position over top of Nameless Inversion, as it's power (and split second ability) is so much more valuable for the cost simply f 1 black mana more.

Deathmark ~ A lot more efficient than Sudden Death, but more limited. More often than not just a SB card, but a very good one.

Terror ~ Budget discard if the good uncommon ones are hard to find. Even then, it's still a very solid choice and barely subpar at all.

Bitterblossom ~ Why is this here? Chumper per turn? Growing numbers of wincons?

Liliana Vess ~ A bit slow, but if the deck is using an accelerator, then the extra 1 turn faster it comes out can be very productive.

Beseech the Queen ~ This card brings MBC together; it brings it the integrity that it was lacking. Now, a 1-of of Dread, Extirpate, and Pithing Needle is viable (having extras in the SB of course). Kills with Korlash, too.

Scarscale Ritual ~ as long as you have critters for the counters (like from bitterblossom or oona or Duck Urchin), then this is a solid draw spell.

Extirpate ~ Perfect as GY hate and combo-killing. Sounds good to me; best for the sideboard unless GY fun is like an epidemic in your meta.


Old things dug up from the dirt...

Pithing Needle ~ It's very likely that you'll be needing this card at some MANY number of times... that's why it's $$$.

The Rack ~ This card requires a deck that is much more focused on discard.

Loxodon Warhammer ~ Korlash's best friend!

Mind Stone ~ Mana Accel that can be made use of late-game? Good, because black's card-drawing is in trouble.

Coldsteel Heart ~ Nice for the snow-builds, since Scrying Sheets grabs onto this.

Phyrexian Totem ~ Mana accel that can attack, block (lol stupid), and dodge wrath? Unfortunately, it's 3rd turn accel.


lands

Swamps ~ Really? Hmm... well. If you insist...

Snow-Covered Swamps ~ Hmm...

Leechridden Swamp ~ Still a swamp to be tutored for with Korlash, still comes into play tapped anyways (just run 2 or 3 so you don't draw them a lot, and tutor for these before basics ALWAYS, and you wont even notice). A good (and free slot) clock.

Scrying Sheets ~ Okay, not I get the SC-Swamps. Good card advantage when you have nothing to do.

Mouth of Ronom ~ A staple in a snow build.

Mutavault ~ Walletmuncher. But yes, very good. It's a free creature that dodges wrath/damn, and gets abilities from some tribal stuff, which seems slightly evident at the moment (you think?)

Spawning Pool ~ Budget of the latter, really. Regens, too (kills Sonic Boom (MBC))

Dakmor Salvage ~ People don't like it... honestly, I find it very useful with Smallpox. Give it a shot.

Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth ~ Not that important unless you use Tendrils/Consume, but I suppose it could also act as a Strip Mine, too.


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Decklists



IN HERE!!

aarondardik's decklist

MD:

19 swamp
4 mutavault
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth

4 oona's prowler
3 haakon, stromgals scourge
3 hypnotic specter

4 nameless inversion
4 smallpox
3 damnation
2 profane command
2 pithing needle
4 thoughtseize
3 bitterblossom
2 stupor
2 tendrils of corruption

SB:

1 haakon, stromgald scourge
1 damnation
1 bitterblossom
2 profane command
2 pithing needle
4 extirpate
4 deathmark

this deck has had some success in its creator's FNMs


Removal Heavy a la Niche

MBC v.Niche2.1

Creatures: 15
2xHaakon, Stromgald Scourge
3xStromgald Crusader
4xDusk Urchins
2xGraveborn Muse
2xShriekmaw
2xNekrataal

Spells: 23
3xBeseech the Wincon
4xCorrupt
2xProfane Command
4xNameless Inversion
3xCruel Edict
2xLoxodon Warhammer
1xBitterblossom
4xFuneral Charm

22xSwamp

Sideboard:
3xTormod's Crypt - vs Lark and To Protect from Extirpate Hate
3xSudden Death - Fae Hate
2xTerror - Goyf/Big Mana Hate.
4xStupor - Fae/Swans/Combo Hate
3xBottle Gnomes - RDW/RDL/Sligh Hate





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Match-ups



IN HERE!!

Lark
You want to hit them with discard and smallpox, you want either a thoughtseize or smallpox in your opening hand. You can easily use your removal on their combo enablers, the blink aspect can easily be dealt with via removal.
note: if your meta consists of many versions of Lark, here are some good cards to put in a sideboard:
extirpate
pithing needle
tormod's crypt


Big Mana[/c
You remove their threats with creature removal and eliminate them before they hit play with discard. Smallpox can kill BoPs and kill their precious land drops while putting haakon in your 'yard.
note: Profane Command helps. board more in if available.


Post SHA G/W aggro
Kill their creatures with removal, and mass removal to clear their board, haakon is very powerful in this matchup.
good cards?
deathmark
damnation
another Haakon, even. The Inverted combo kills this deck.


Post SHA Combo Swans
Game 1 you really want to hit them with discard and use instant speed removal to deal with the swans. Game 1 is only about 50/50 but game 2 it gets greatly better with the sideboard, using pithing needle, deathmark, and extirpate.

Fae
it is the only not so favorable matchup, being 40/60 in their favor. In this matchup the haakon/inversion combo is the most important thing, second being targeted discard against their counters. if you can get the haakon/inversion engine online you will auto-win. Here is what I would sideboard.

-2 profane command

+1 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
+1 Damnation


Elf Machine
This matchup really comes down to removal, it is quite an easy matchup. Use the haakon/inversion engine, damnation and smallpox to kill off their creatures. Garruk and the like can be dealt with by discard. The sideboard is pretty easy. If you have an extra Haakon, as well as some more removal, get it in there.

more to come!


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My Thanks To:



~aarondardik for creating a decklist (in here) that warrented enough attention to show how much intrest for this deck-type is really out there. Also, thank you for co-managing this thread with me. AND thank you for the match-up info.
~Volacide for the FANTASTIC banner
~Hodoku for the graphic dividers
~WotC for the long life of M:tG
Post shadowmoor

4 Korlash

4 Bitterblossom
4 Thoughtseize
4 Nameless Inversion
4 Beseech the Queen (BBB Tutor a card with Converted cost <= your land count)
4 Corrupt
3 Damnation
3 Profane Command
3 Tendrils of Corruption
3 Coldsteel Heart

18 Snow Swamps
2 Urborg
2 Scrying Sheets
2 Mouth of Ronom

been play testing a lot, works really awesome.
My main concern is RDW sideboarding Everlasting Torment
Dusk Urchins is probably a solid inclusion for post-Shadowmoor MBC.
Dusk Urchins is probably a solid inclusion for post-Shadowmoor MBC.

I think so too, but I couldn't find room.
Beseech & Corrupt certainly make the deck though
i posted a reply in the other thread @ the banshee, so if u want to check it out.. I can't do matchups right now, I have a huge test tommorow.
Post shadowmoor

4 Korlash

4 Bitterblossom
4 Thoughtseize
4 Nameless Inversion
4 Beseech the Queen (BBB Tutor a card with Converted cost <= your land count)
4 Corrupt
3 Damnation
3 Profane Command
3 Tendrils of Corruption
3 Coldsteel Heart

18 Snow Swamps
2 Urborg
2 Scrying Sheets
2 Mouth of Ronom

been play testing a lot, works really awesome.
My main concern is RDW sideboarding Everlasting Torment

This deck looks pretty good, actually. I'll add it to the OP when I do the post-shadowmoor update (which is when the spoiler list comes out)
Why don't you all wait until SHM releases before we start throwing up decklists? We've only seen 2/3 of the set so far thru spoilers. Obviously, is getting some crazy stuff in this next set, but I feel that it will be control that will become the ore viable option.
Why don't you all wait until SHM releases before we start throwing up decklists? We've only seen 2/3 of the set so far thru spoilers. Obviously, is getting some crazy stuff in this next set, but I feel that it will be control that will become the ore viable option.

people really like to make decks and spoiler season is always like this
I know that, of course. What I was trying to convey is that there's really no reason to run Mono when is getting some nuts.
people really like to make decks and spoiler season is always like this

This is precisely what I avoided doing. Quote a spoiler from the OP, I dare you.

Like I said, I want the sortable spoiler released before I put anything post-sha in the OP.
This is precisely what I avoided doing. Quote a spoiler from the OP, I dare you.

Like I said, I want the sortable spoiler released before I put anything post-sha in the OP.

i was not accusing you of anything i was merely responding to the question
This is precisely what I avoided doing. Quote a spoiler from the OP, I dare you.

Like I said, I want the sortable spoiler released before I put anything post-sha in the OP.

I wasn't referring to the OP, I was referring to post #2.
Just pointin' out :D No worries, I wasn't offended. But yes, Black is going nuts post-sha. Here's my opinion on B/R vs Mono Black:

This is the largest standard cardpool ever (right?). There is SO much to chose from; as far as I'm concerned, mono-black will be more focused. Also, Most of the reasons to splash is for the hybrid cards to play smoothly- wait, what? You don't need the other color. Yea, you can still use Fulminator Mage mono-black... Demigod of Revenge. The list goes on... I think there are enough black cards, and a wide enough variety of effects from them, that there isn't a need to go 2-color.
Just pointin' out :D No worries, I wasn't offended. But yes, Black is going nuts post-sha. Here's my opinion on B/R vs Mono Black:

This is the largest standard cardpool ever (right?). There is SO much to chose from; as far as I'm concerned, mono-black will be more focused. Also, Most of the reasons to splash is for the hybrid cards to play smoothly- wait, what? You don't need the other color. Yea, you can still use Fulminator Mage mono-black... Demigod of Revenge. The list goes on... I think there are enough black cards, and a wide enough variety of effects from them, that there isn't a need to go 2-color.

No need, but why not? With Sulfurous Springs, Graven Cairns, Auntie's Hovel, etc there are more than enough ways to splash . And with Urborg, Korlash, Corrupt and Tendrils can still be more than effective.
No need, but why not? With Sulfurous Springs, Graven Cairns, Auntie's Hovel, etc there are more than enough ways to splash . And with Urborg, Korlash, Corrupt and Tendrils can still be more than effective.

True enough, but what in red are you looking for? Reach? Fair enough, but like you said, corrupt... I suppose a slight splash, but IMO, it's not worth the cost of the mana base... Greater Gargadon could make a case... I can't think of much else. Enlighten me

Keep in mind that although you can express these opinions in an MBC thread, but remember, B/R is probably going to hold a good thousand threads of its own; there will clearly be discussion in those topics as well.

But like I said: enlighten me
this deck can go so many ways that its ridicules. the question always arises, are you trying to find an optimal build or just one you are happy with. red seems to be the preferred color but it doesn't provide answers to some of blacks problems. story circle and enchantments for one, or other ways of gaining life or suspended cards. white and green would be a better choice there. i like dread and bitterblossom is so good. here is another option(pre-sha):


26 land
4 rack
4 thoughtsieze
4 mind shatter
4 damnation
4 smallpox
4 bitterblossom
3 tendrils of corruption(corrupt)
2 liliana vess
2 hypnotic specter
1 dread
2 loxodon warhammer
As far as MBC is concerned, what do y'all think about corrupt vs tendrils of corruption? I think it will be a LOT more powerful.

And I just can't wait for Beseech the Queen (price estimates, anyone?)... then The deck wont need so many copies of damnation and pithing needle and such (for budget purposes, mainly; 4 would still be good). Even Oona's Prowler really only needs to be a 3-of, then.

And I think with Beseech, Korlash will be raising in value A WHOLE LOT.
As far as MBC is concerned, what do y'all think about corrupt vs tendrils of corruption? I think it will be a LOT more powerful.

And I just can't wait for Beseech the Queen (price estimates, anyone?)... then The deck wont need so many copies of damnation and pithing needle and such (for budget purposes, mainly; 4 would still be good). Even Oona's Prowler really only needs to be a 3-of, then.

And I think with Beseech, Korlash will be raising in value A WHOLE LOT.

I think the Haakon/NI combo is highly overrated.
Okay, so here are some sideboard options and testing against certain decks. And, TheBanshee, do you want to link my thread and your eclipse thread at the top of your original post.

Here are some matchup tips, and for reference here is my most updated list-pre-shadowmoor.

MD:

19 swamp
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 mutavault

4 oona's prowler
3 haakon, stromgald scourge
3 hypnotic specter

4 nameless inversion
4 smallpox
4 thoughtseize
2 profane command
2 tendrils of corruption
3 bitterblossom
3 damnation
2 pithing needle
2 stupor

SB:

2 pithing needle
4 extirpate
1 damnation
1 haakon, stromgald scourge
4 deathmark
2 profane command
1 tormod's crypt

Lark-Game 1 you want to hit them with discard and smallpox, you want either a thoughtseize or smallpox in your opening hand. You can easily use your removal on their combo enablers, the blink aspect can easily be dealt with via removal. Game 2 here is your sideboard plan:

-3 hypnotic specter
-2 tendrils of corruption
-1 profane command
-1 stupor

+4 extirpate
+2 pithing needle
+1 tormod's crypt

Big Mana- You remove their threats with creature removal and eliminate them before they hit play with discard. Smallpox can kill BoPs and kill their precious land drops while putting haakon in your 'yard. Here is your sideboard plan:

-2 bitterblossom


+2 profane command

Post SHA G/W aggro- kill their creatures with removal, and mass removal to clear their board, haakon is very powerful in this matchup. Here is your sideboard plan.

-2 pithing needle
-2 stupor
-2 profane command

+4 deathmark
+1 damnation
+1 haakon, stromgald scourge

Post SHA Combo Swans- Game 1 you really want to hit them with discard and use instant speed removal to deal with the swans. Game 1 is only about 50/50 but game 2 it gets greatly better. Here are your sideboard options.

-3 bitterblossom
-2 profane command
-3 hypnotic specter
-1 stupor


+2 pithing needle
+4 extirpate
+3 deathmark

More matchups including Fae, RDW, Goblins will be posted soon. If you have any questions about other decks and you request them on this thread I will reply as soon as possible.
Hey, I was thinking maybe adding Assassins. I know it won't make the deck stronger, but it would be cooler! Like, wouldn't it be awesome to fight a MBC Assassin deck? I mean, don't they just fit. Okay, I defending a dying cause. But this is my deck:

2 Slaughter Pact (So I can tap out and not worry as much)
2 Darkness (So I don't have to worry about Stonewoods or Milita Pride)
2 Extirpate
3 Thoughtseize
3 Cruel Edict (I didn't like smallpoxs but I'll give them another try)
3 Dash hopes (I'm gonna pull these and I feel stupid for putthing them in)
3 Terrors (I like instant killing)
2 maralen of the Mornsong (I wanted some sort of draw and it was this or Howling mine)
2 Sudden death (I like being able to do things without my opp responding - plus, kills doran)
2 Sudden spoiling (Pro-black killed me at last draft, this helps)
3 Damnation
4 Korlash (I'm looking for another game winner, maybe Underworld dreams)
4 Tendrils of Corruption (I like life gain and instant killing)
3 Consume Spirit (Always a fav.)
2 Profane Command
20 FOIL swamps (I'm slightly proud of that :D)

I want suggestions. Anything, at all would be nice.
I know spoiler season isn't over but here is my post-SHA decklist:
Show


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mutavault" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Mutavault">Mutavault</a>
1 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urborg%2C+Tomb+of+Yawgmoth" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Urborg%2C+Tomb+of+Yawgmoth">Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth</a>
9 x Swamp



4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Korlash%2C+Heir+to+Blackblade" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Korlash%2C+Heir+to+Blackblade">Korlash, Heir to Blackblade</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oona%27s+Prowler" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Oona%27s+Prowler">Oona's Prowler</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dusk+Urchins" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Dusk+Urchins">Dusk Urchins</a>



4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smallpox" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Smallpox">Smallpox</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nameless+Inversion" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Nameless+Inversion">Nameless Inversion</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thoughtseize" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Thoughtseize">Thoughtseize</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tendrils+of+Corruption" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Tendrils+of+Corruption">Tendrils of Corruption</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Profane+Command" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Profane+Command">Profane Command</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Damnation" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Damnation">Damnation</a>



2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bitterblossom" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Bitterblossom">Bitterblossom</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liliana+Vess" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Liliana+Vess">Liliana Vess</a>

[deck=Sideboard]4 x Deathmark
3 x Pithing Needle
3 x Shriekmaw
3 x Extirpate
2 x Damnation[/deck]


Beseech is an excellent card, but I opted for Liliana because of her versatility. Not so hot on Corrupt, would honestly rather Tendrils of Corruption.
As far as MBC is concerned, what do y'all think about corrupt vs tendrils of corruption? I think it will be a LOT more powerful.

And I just can't wait for Beseech the Queen (price estimates, anyone?)... then The deck wont need so many copies of damnation and pithing needle and such (for budget purposes, mainly; 4 would still be good). Even Oona's Prowler really only needs to be a 3-of, then.

And I think with Beseech, Korlash will be raising in value A WHOLE LOT.

beseech the queen is an uncommon and fits in very few decks it will not cost much at all
I haven't used korlash in a deck, so I'm just wondering how good it is as a finisher. Obvously, the name is attached to any MBC deck but I'm just not impressed enough with the stats. There must be times when mortivore would be a better play. Also, whats everyones opinion about dread? I get the impression that people think its bad but its practically game over for aggro when it sticks. The secondary ability plus the evasion is just awesome. Any thoughts on this?
I think dread is a good card for decks that are able to hold the game until it is played, and keep it in play.

Also, if you use Beseech the Queen, you only need 1 copy. Sweet deal, IMO.
beseech the queen is an uncommon and fits in very few decks it will not cost much at all

OMG, I thought it was rare... thank god my deck will cost $35 less than I thought.

sweet deal.

@aarondardik:

I'll compile that match-up info and put it in the OP. Your thread is linked in the "My Thanks To:" section where I mentioned none other than yourself
OMG, I thought it was rare... thank god my deck will cost $35 less than I thought.

sweet deal.

@aarondardik:

I'll compile that match-up info and put it in the OP. Your thread is linked in the "My Thanks To:" section where I mentioned none other than yourself

k, I should be posting other matchup info today or tommorow.
I know spoiler season isn't over but here is my post-SHA decklist:
Show


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mutavault" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Mutavault">Mutavault</a>
1 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urborg%2C+Tomb+of+Yawgmoth" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Urborg%2C+Tomb+of+Yawgmoth">Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth</a>
9 x Swamp



4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Korlash%2C+Heir+to+Blackblade" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Korlash%2C+Heir+to+Blackblade">Korlash, Heir to Blackblade</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oona%27s+Prowler" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Oona%27s+Prowler">Oona's Prowler</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dusk+Urchins" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Dusk+Urchins">Dusk Urchins</a>



4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smallpox" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Smallpox">Smallpox</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nameless+Inversion" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Nameless+Inversion">Nameless Inversion</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thoughtseize" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Thoughtseize">Thoughtseize</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tendrils+of+Corruption" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Tendrils+of+Corruption">Tendrils of Corruption</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Profane+Command" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Profane+Command">Profane Command</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Damnation" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Damnation">Damnation</a>



2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bitterblossom" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Bitterblossom">Bitterblossom</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liliana+Vess" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Liliana+Vess">Liliana Vess</a>

[deck=Sideboard]4 x Deathmark
3 x Pithing Needle
3 x Shriekmaw
3 x Extirpate
2 x Damnation[/deck]


Beseech is an excellent card, but I opted for Liliana because of her versatility. Not so hot on Corrupt, would honestly rather Tendrils of Corruption.

I see no reason to run either Prowler or Smallpox in your build. Also, run 4 Damnation MD. -2 Tendrils, +2 Corrupt.
I see no reason to run either Prowler or Smallpox in your build. Also, run 4 Damnation MD. -2 Tendrils, +2 Corrupt.

What is wrong with Prowler or Smallpox? Please explain. I can accept running 4 Damns though. -2 Tendrils, +2 Damn.
I know spoiler season isn't over but here is my post-SHA decklist:
Show


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mutavault" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Mutavault">Mutavault</a>
1 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urborg%2C+Tomb+of+Yawgmoth" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Urborg%2C+Tomb+of+Yawgmoth">Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth</a>
9 x Swamp



4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Korlash%2C+Heir+to+Blackblade" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Korlash%2C+Heir+to+Blackblade">Korlash, Heir to Blackblade</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oona%27s+Prowler" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Oona%27s+Prowler">Oona's Prowler</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dusk+Urchins" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Dusk+Urchins">Dusk Urchins</a>



4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smallpox" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Smallpox">Smallpox</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nameless+Inversion" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Nameless+Inversion">Nameless Inversion</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thoughtseize" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Thoughtseize">Thoughtseize</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tendrils+of+Corruption" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Tendrils+of+Corruption">Tendrils of Corruption</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Profane+Command" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Profane+Command">Profane Command</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Damnation" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Damnation">Damnation</a>



2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bitterblossom" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Bitterblossom">Bitterblossom</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liliana+Vess" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Liliana+Vess">Liliana Vess</a>

[deck=Sideboard]4 x Deathmark
3 x Pithing Needle
3 x Shriekmaw
3 x Extirpate
2 x Damnation[/deck]


Beseech is an excellent card, but I opted for Liliana because of her versatility. Not so hot on Corrupt, would honestly rather Tendrils of Corruption.

Only 2 copies of Bitterblossom doesn't really... sit with me... it seems like a for-of kinda card... I dunno, what do y'all think? It seems like a card that's only really good early-game; otherwise, it's too little too late.
Okay, here are some more matchups.
Again, here is my decklist for reference.


MD:

19 swamp
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 mutavault

4 oona's prowler
3 haakon, stromgald scourge
3 hypnotic specter

4 nameless inversion
4 smallpox
4 thoughtseize
2 profane command
2 tendrils of corruption
3 bitterblossom
3 damnation
2 pithing needle
2 stupor

SB:

2 pithing needle
4 extirpate
1 damnation
1 haakon, stromgald scourge
4 deathmark
2 profane command
1 tormod's crypt





Fae-Game 1 it is the only not so favorable matchup, being 40/60 in their favor. In this matchup the haakon/inversion combo is the most important thing, second being targeted discard against their counters. if you can get the haakon/inversion engine online you will auto-win. Here is what I would sideboard.

-2 profane command

+1 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
+1 Damnation

Elf Machine-This matchup really comes down to removal, it is quite an easy matchup. Use the haakon/inversion engine, damnation and smallpox to kill off their creatures. Garruk and the like can be dealt with by discard. Here are the sideboarding options.

-2 stupor
-1 pithing needle
-2 tendrils of corruption
-1 profane command

+1 Damnation
+1 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
+4 Deathmark
Okay, here are some more matchups.
Again, here is my decklist for reference.


MD:

19 swamp
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 mutavault

4 oona's prowler
3 haakon, stromgald scourge
3 hypnotic specter

4 nameless inversion
4 smallpox
4 thoughtseize
2 profane command
2 tendrils of corruption
3 bitterblossom
3 damnation
2 pithing needle
2 stupor

SB:

2 pithing needle
4 extirpate
1 damnation
1 haakon, stromgald scourge
4 deathmark
2 profane command
1 tormod's crypt





Fae-Game 1 it is the only not so favorable matchup, being 40/60 in their favor. In this matchup the haakon/inversion combo is the most important thing, second being targeted discard against their counters. if you can get the haakon/inversion engine online you will auto-win. Here is what I would sideboard.

-2 profane command

+1 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
+1 Damnation

Elf Machine-This matchup really comes down to removal, it is quite an easy matchup. Use the haakon/inversion engine, damnation and smallpox to kill off their creatures. Garruk and the like can be dealt with by discard. Here are the sideboarding options.

-2 stupor
-1 pithing needle
-2 tendrils of corruption
-1 profane command

+1 Damnation
+1 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
+4 Deathmark

All these decks SB Extirpate. What then?
I think Mortivore would be nice <3.
I'm sure we will be seeing some good common/uncommon removal from Shadowmoor with some sweet wither action or something to that effect.
All these decks SB Extirpate. What then?

Sure, they can bring in extirpate, but they are wasting a deck slot just to deal with haakon when you can use your damnations/inversions/smallpox and discard to eliminate all of their threats. It is virtual card advantage for us if they bring in extirpate. And all this is assuming they see haakon/inversion game 1. Otherwise they won't even know to bring it in. And some decks don't even play black so can't bring in extirpate.
Okay, I updated match-ups; thank you very much aarondardik for this information.

And yea, if a deck wastes a slot on extirpate JUST for Haakon/Inversion, they're wasting their time.

And someone was asking about Dread? As far as I'm concerned, this card seems (mildly at worst) underrated. Think about it - with Beseech the Queen coming out, it's a threat that never really goes away, and can be sought out, so it makes a reliable 1-of. It also has fear, unlike any other finisher in the deck.

Corrupt vs Tendrils of Corruption:
Basically, Corrupt has a completely different role from tendrils. Tendrils is removal with bonus lifegain (well, they both have bonus lifegain). Corrupt is a finisher spell that, as far as I'm concerned, fits MUCH better in MBC, since MBC has slight difficulty with fitting finishers into the deck due to the necessity of the deck's focus. In other words, the finisher needs to be able to disrupt the opponent's game, or else it is a potential wasted slot.

Dread kills creatures. Korlash is an endless blocker (basically). Oona and the specters aren't finishers, but they are certainly applied pressure with the subthemes being applied simultaneously.

Corrupt hits the player, AND it makes the game go longer (long enough to finish gaining board control, since for black, that's always a difficult battle). Tendrils just kills creatures, but doesn't kill the opponent. Ever. 2 Mana is worth it, IMO, since Tendrils is useless if they have no creatures target (whether you damnationed, which the deck is full of, as are many others, or they have a scion of oona in play). Also, reach for black is very valuable. Why to you think Profane Command is so valued?

Mortivore is a budget version of Korlash. It doesn't grow as fast, it can't fetch lands/thin out the deck, and it's picture isn't as nice Yes, I'm a Vorthos. That's why I like Nihilith so much :P Also, MBC doesn't play enough critters to make Mortivore worthwhile.

Am I rambling? Yea.

Yea, Shadowmoor hasn't shown off it's removal pretty much at all yet. Not for black, anyways. Hopefully there's SOMETHING good, because in a Korlash build, I'm veering away from Smallpox and more towards the new-coming Fulminator Mage. It's not as disruptive, but it's not symetrical, either. It's also a $15 card...
I'm considering running Scarscale ritual, as I find this deck runs best when it is generating a lot of card advantage. I run Dusk Urchins so those two cards obviously work well together, but I think it can also work well with Bitterblossom. Also, I agree with the comment that Bitterblossom is awkward as a 2-of and have bumped it to 4.

Korlash isn't an endless blocker, he is a creature who isn't afraid to swing every turn. Your endless blocker is Bitterblossom.
Yea, but by endless blocker, I mean if the opponent has a BIG creature, attacking is senseless, but it is for them, too. But yes, you're right.

EDIT:
Rite of Consumption + Korlash = 2CC Corrupt (player only)
Post shadowmoor

4 Korlash

4 Bitterblossom
4 Thoughtseize
4 Nameless Inversion
4 Beseech the Queen (BBB Tutor a card with Converted cost <= your land count)
4 Corrupt
3 Damnation
3 Profane Command
3 Tendrils of Corruption
3 Coldsteel Heart

18 Snow Swamps
2 Urborg
2 Scrying Sheets
2 Mouth of Ronom

been play testing a lot, works really awesome.
My main concern is RDW sideboarding Everlasting Torment

Yea, the main thing to do against Everlasting Torment is to force them to discard it, because lifegain is really important against RDW...

I think your deck could go with -1 corrupt (6cc makes a 4-of kinda... yea...), -3 Tendrils, +4 Phyrexian Ironfoot, since it's a snow build, and you're lacking critters. Just thinkin.
I'm actually looking at this right now. What do you think?

Lands x24

Molten Slagheap x2
Swamp x22

Creatures x12

Demigod of Revenge x4 6cc
Dread x1 6cc
Dusk Urchins x3 3cc
Korlash, Heir to Blackblade x4 4cc

Other Spells x24

Beseech the Queen x4 3cc or 6cc
Corrupt x4 6cc
Damnation x4 4cc
Nameless Inversion x2 2cc
Profane Command x4 2cc + X
Slaughter Pact x4 0cc
Sudden Death x2 3cc

No sideboard as of yet.
I'm actually looking at this right now. What do you think?

Lands x24

Molten Slagheap x2
Swamp x22

Creatures x12

Demigod of Revenge x4 6cc
Dread x1 6cc
Dusk Urchins x4 3cc
Korlash, Heir to Blackblade x4 4cc

Other Spells x24

Beseech the Queen x4 3cc or 6cc
Corrupt x4 6cc
Damnation x4 4cc
Nameless Inversion x2 2cc
Profane Command x4 2cc + X
Slaughter Pact x4 0cc
Sudden Death x2 3cc

No sideboard as of yet.

neat. No Thoughtseize? (budget?) Actually, there isn't any discard at all... Even stupor is good.
Here's a list I got together recently, still havn't done any testing. On paper, the only matchups I see having a problem with are faeries and blue control.

::Creatures::
4 demigod of revenge-Solid finisher, really good against control decks.
2 tombstalker-Cheap fat finisher.
4 dusk urchins-Against aggro, he'll usually kill a guy and draw you a card, against control he'll beat and draw you 3 cards, all around good card.
3 shriekmaw-Removal+dude.
4 fulminator mage-Can slow down other control decks enough to give you that advantage and will at least block and kill a land against aggro
1 Finisher that also helps clear the board. Right now I'm undecided between dread and grim poppet

::non-creatures::
2 beseech the queen-tutor
3 damnation-wrath
3 bitterblossom-solid finisher, but it's mostly in the deck to be able to keep up with faeries
2 profane command-your swiss army knife
4 thoughtsieze-disruption
1 corrupt-Everybody loves this card
1 mind shatter-Very nice bullet for those control matchups

::Lands::
1 urborg-makes corrupt that much better
4 desert-kills faeries
3 molten slagheap-good to set up for big profane commands and mind shatters. Also good if you need to beseech->damnation in the same turn.
18 swamp

The sideboard is still under contruction, but it will probably include a mix of nameless inversion, memory plunder, and extirpate.

I know it doesn't look like your normal MBC list, but the curve is really hard to fill without adding as many creatures as I did.