Standards Strongest-- MMPS

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Stop hijacking my thread with irrelevent arguments over situations not applicable to type 2(example shifter and dark confidant in other formats)

Updated deck list!!

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"Standards Strongest-- MMPS 12/03/2007 8:21:00 PM

After extensive testing and grueling twice daily tournies this is the deck that has come out on top for the current T2 format...

4 Vesuvan Shapeshifter-- The best creature in T2
4 Fathom Seer
4 Birds of paradise
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Yavimaya Dryad
4 Aeon Chronicler-- Cantripping monster, or one sided Howling mine, the chroniclers P/T regularly exceeds the 15 mark...
4 Rune Snag
4 Looter Il-kor-- effectively a one sided howling mine, the looter smooths out draws, and simultaneously protects against both mana screw and flood.
3 Primal Command-- Works as a general use tutor, but also acts as a single card strategy killer. Devestates Dragon, and Mannequin decks while pulling out bullets and your card draw combo...
1 Deadwood Treefolk-- Chains with shifters to produce brutal levels of CA.
1 Razormane Masticore-- Aggro killer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2 Loxodon Warhammer-- turns 14/14 chroniclers, into GG...
4 Yavimaya coast
10 Island
5 Forest
2 Karplusion Forest
1 Mountain

SB
4 Boom/Bust
4 Pyroclasm
4 Psionic Blast OR Pongify
1 Cloudthresher
1 Brine Elemental
1 Fortune thief

Extensive testing has shown this build to be about the best thing the current T2 has to offer, have fun winning your tournaments with this monster..."

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The deck is extremely fast with 12+ accelerators, and the level of card draw and card advantage in the build out does anything else in the current type 2. Chroniclers with the shifter and Seer combo is just insane, with Fathom seers pulling double duty as walking Might of Oaks for your Chronicler team.

The deck has EXTREMELY strong matchups against the field. Dragon Storm, Elves, and the current host of varient control, and agro control decks have little chance against it, especially post SB when things get very very unfair thanks in part to the Red splash...
It's not bad. I don't think Warhammer is the best card here (it's decent on Chronicler, and that's about it).

Wall of Roots over something, Dryad maybe?

Thoughts on Guilde or Vigor? What about a few of the manlands, Factory, Desert, or Mouth of Ronom? If you're not running the snow stuff, Freyalise's Radiance in SB?
what is this deck? name it, make an archtype thread... etc... if it's so good. is it a rogue deck?

also, did you make it, or is it actually kicking arse at worlds as we speak or something?
How the hell do you get Aeon Chronicler as a 15/15? You'd have to draw 8 cards a turn to do that...
Indigo--the mana base is pretty tight, you don't want anything that doesn't make colored mana, and you don't want anything that that comes in tapped...even the lone mountain is a slight albiet powerful stretch.

Warhammer is also completely nuts...

Banshee--the decks name is MMPS... don't know what it stands for. :edit: looked it up the decks name is "Mighty Morphing Power Shifter"

Deathcow.. You need to look at some of the card interactions of the build. This deck has more card draw then any other deck in t2 by a VERY large margin. A single fathom seer by itself can give a chronicler +4/+4... combined with a shifter and you can go from a 7/7 chronicler at end of opponents turn, to a 16/16 chronicler on your own turn.... Multiple seers get even nuttier... The deck is EASILY able to make the guys extremely huge...
but... ... what does the deck do against removal?
Indigo--the mana base is pretty tight, you don't want anything that doesn't make colored mana, and you don't want anything that that comes in tapped...even the lone mountain is a slight albiet powerful stretch.

I'll take your word on it, but you don't seem -that- colour intensive, especially with Birds and Morph creatures being face-down and all.

Warhammer is also completely nuts...

Against what? You only have Chroniclers and the Treefolk who can use it without dying and wasting mana. I think Garruk would be far better in that slot.
Yavimaya Dryad and Looter do fine with Warhammer.

He needs double islands(out of 10) for Fathom Seer. I would definitely drop that mountain for another Karplusan Forest though.

EDIT:
Unless you mean those creatures getting burned/killed out.
what is this? firstly it would help if you would autocard, secondly you definetely need to explain your strategy more.
what is this? firstly it would help if you would autocard, secondly you definetely need to explain your strategy more.

QFT
Yavimaya Dryad and Looter do fine with Warhammer.

6 mana for +3 power is crap. The only reason you should use Warhammer is to get evasion (trample) onto a tough-to-kill creature that doesn't already have it. Therefore, he only has two viable targets.
6 x Creatures
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Birds+of+Paradise" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Birds+of+Paradise">Birds of Paradise</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Looter+il-Kor" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Looter+il-Kor">Looter il-Kor</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fathom+Seer" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Fathom+Seer">Fathom Seer</a>
1 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Voidmage+Prodigy" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Voidmage+Prodigy">Voidmage Prodigy</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yavimaya+Dryad" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Yavimaya+Dryad">Yavimaya Dryad</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vesuvan+Shapeshifter" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Vesuvan+Shapeshifter">Vesuvan Shapeshifter</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aeon+Chronicler" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Aeon+Chronicler">Aeon Chronicler</a>
1 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deadwood+Treefolk" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Deadwood+Treefolk">Deadwood Treefolk</a>

Spells
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Search+for+Tomorrow" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Search+for+Tomorrow">Search for Tomorrow</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rune+Snag" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Rune+Snag">Rune Snag</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Loxodon+Warhammer" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Loxodon+Warhammer">Loxodon Warhammer</a>
3 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Primal+Command" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Primal+Command">Primal Command</a>

2 x Lands
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yavimaya+Coast" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Yavimaya+Coast">Yavimaya Coast</a>
2 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karplusan+Forest" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Karplusan+Forest">Karplusan Forest</a>
1 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mountain" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Mountain">Mountain</a>
Island
5 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Forest" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Forest">Forest</a>


4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boom" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Boom">Boom/Bust</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pyroclasm" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Pyroclasm">Pyroclasm</a>
4 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Psionic+Blast" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Psionic+Blast">Psionic Blast</a> OR <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pongify" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Pongify">Pongify</a>
1 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cloudthresher" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Cloudthresher">Cloudthresher</a>
1 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brine+Elemental" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Brine+Elemental">Brine Elemental</a>
1 x <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fortune+Thief" class="autocard-link" data-image-url="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&amp;name=Fortune+Thief">Fortune Thief</a>

Fixed.

EDIT: Fixed.
Fixed.




ABOUT THE HAMMER: It's not that it's the best card ever for this deck, but those of you who are aginst it need to realise that chump blockers will be an issue for this deck. Sure, there's pryoclasm, but what about regenerating creatures? what about spawning pool? you need trample, fear, flying, SOMETHING, and the hammer is the best of the bunch. If the deck ran, say, wonder, and could ALREADY put it in the grave easily, then the hammer would be a bit less useful, but as it stands, the deck needs a source of evasion.

having said that, yes, garruk wildspeaker would be a good card. HOWEVER, if it can't stay alive, what good is he? It depends on the meta.

also, the singleton treefolk is weird.


EDIT:
@heeeres johnny: you missed the 3 x primal command

also, why does this deck use yavimaya dryad? it's not that great...
Curve reasons? First turn Birds, second turn Search/Dryad?

Warhammer is useful here, since you lack evasion, but if it's jsut there as a "Need evasion to win", Garruk would be better as it's Overrun ability functions the same way (Who's going to survive a 17/17 trampler swing, really?) and it's more useful when you have no creatures.
Curve reasons? First turn Birds, second turn Search/Dryad?

Warhammer is useful here, since you lack evasion, but if it's jsut there as a "Need evasion to win", Garruk would be better as it's Overrun ability functions the same way (Who's going to survive a 17/17 trampler swing, really?) and it's more useful when you have no creatures.

missed that one

true, however even with garruk MD, 2 copies of hammer would still be good in the SB just in case they are running good ways of offing garruk. I.E profane command, with stupid regenerating black stuff. Stuff like that. Black has very little it can do vs. hammer other than killing the creature.


having said that, this brings up another issue. With all the removal floating around, how is a 17/17 trampler going to stay alive?
6 mana for +3 power is crap. The only reason you should use Warhammer is to get evasion (trample) onto a tough-to-kill creature that doesn't already have it. Therefore, he only has two viable targets.

But it sticks around so if one creature gets killed then other small creatures can become serious threats instead of pinging.

Not saying I like them in here though. I think he should have more disruption. Maybe a few Mystic Snakes and/or Vensers or something.
Reminds me of Korlash.dec, except with even fewer wincons.

Idea is good, but I still fail to see what happens if your opponent has any removal of any kind.
chroniclers are good card draw engines but they enjoy munching on all forms of removal from skred to oring and all the black goodness in between.

nice deck, but hardly format breaking imo.
I would test it to prove myself wrong, but I'm sure someone else will handle that...and tbh I would be interested to know if this is actually any good, cuz to me it looks like it would lose badly to most of the DtBs

-Shag
chroniclers are good card draw engines but they enjoy munching on all forms of removal from skred to oring and all the black goodness in between.
-Shag

aeon chronicler essentially has haste, so oring and shriekmaw don't completely stop it.

and this deck NEEDS body double.


body double+deadwood treefolk+VSS= Laughing fit at mas removal
aeon chronicler essentially has haste, so oring and shriekmaw don't completely stop it.

and this deck NEEDS body double.


body double+deadwood treefolk+VSS= Laughing fit at mas removal

LoLz=your screwing up auto cards. ... lol

I would test this cause i played a W/G control deck that was very strong
I actually like the idea of this deck, as it does seem to be quite strong. But there's some things I'd change around. If I ran it, it'd look like this...

first off, vesuvan shapeshifter isn't the best crit in T2. i think most peeps would agree to that. the best in T2 is the good ol' 'Goyf. It also isn't the best monoblue crit ever, that would have to be teferi.
i am not disputing that u say this is a good deck but most peeps won't take it for granted. post some matchup walkthroughs, the reasons why u have won the tournies, what decks u faced and why this deck beat them. i'm assuming u played in magic online 8 mans so the decks there should be very representative of the meta. however, you still gotta show some evidence for it. give us matchups.
first off, vesuvan shapeshifter isn't the best crit in T2. i think most peeps would agree to that. the best in T2 is the good ol' 'Goyf. It also isn't the best monoblue crit ever, that would have to be teferi.

But it makes triple time walk with yosie!*





*(Reference is to the crosspost of this at SCG, where OP is unintentionally hilarious.)
I'm pretty sure Profane Command can't kill Garruk, above poster.
I'm pretty sure Profane Command can't kill Garruk, above poster.

Aye, you're correct. Planeswalkers are not creatures, thus making them untargetable to Profane Command.
Aye, you're correct. Planeswalkers are not creatures, thus making them untargetable to Profane Command.

Maybe he was reffering to the life loss aspect?...which still doesn't work.
I think I would also disagree with goyf being the strongest creature in t2. he is the most mana cost efficient creature (certainly not the most wallet efficient especially as he dies to a nickle common)but that doesn't make it the best.
So how does this deck win? Besides Aeon Chronicler, there's nothing here that can beat for a lot of damage, and Terror, O-Ring, Crib Swap, Eyeblights Ending... all make Chronicler go away. And except for Chronicler or opponent's creatures, there's nothing that Shapeshifter can morph into to beat face either. So how do you win?
Havok--You don't need the body double to go nuts with deadwood, bringing back a vesuvan is all you need... the deadwood brings back creatures when it comes into play AND when it dies, thus a shifter copying it gives you an infinite treefolk loop. Also what in the world are you going to use Sulphur elementals against? There is no white deck that can beat this, the deck views Kithkin as a joke. On the other hand you NEED to have instant speed spot removal against the lord decks. It makes sure that pyroclasm stays effective even if they pull multiple lords, and nothing is more vicious then killing they're land walk lord after they declare their attack and suddenly being able to block their entire team. I also don't understand what you would be using trickbind for? Dragon? Boom/Bust is actually FAR better then trickbind in that matchup... playing a single boom pretty much kills dragon, playing a Bust makes them incapable of winning. Boom/Bust has the added bonus of slaughtering a large range of control decks, and absolutely annihilating mono black, and mannequin decks.

Wall of roots is NOT as good a Yavimaya Dryad.... Dryad is INSANE, probably one of the best cards in the deck. I tried the deck without them as you seem to want to do and their power level become evident quite quickly. They give you the ability to have FIVE perms on the board before your opponent has played a second land, and they slaughter garruks like they are nothing, their pretty nuts.


To everyone that thinks removal is a problem for this deck...it is not. You all seem to be thinking that the deck is reliant on swinging with a single huge creature while being seemingly oblivious to the fact that you'll ussually have a couple of shifters on the board copying the huge creature... even if they immediately kill the chronicler, what are they going to do against the OTHER 15/15's that are copying it? On top of that how is them killing a chronicler bad for you? If they kill it they were just 2 for one'd or worse... on top of that you can just tutor up another one or deadwood it back, putting them even further behind in card advantage. When you're outdrawing them with your guys by 3 to 5 cards a turn it really doesn't matter if they kill your guy since you will have plenty of other guys to replace anything they kill.


Warhammer VS Garruk-- Warhammer is FAR more reliable then garruk for starters... it does its jobs no questions asked, not IF it manages to not get looked at for multiple turns. But more importantly you all seem to be forgeting the little fact that Hammer gains life....ALOT of life. I lone yavimaya dryad with a hammer on it can race 10 power worth of opposing creatures. If they kill dryad the hammer just hops onto somebody else allowing you to continue gaining obcene amounts of life. Throwing it on a chronicler not only garantees that the damage will get through, it also makes it impossible for them to strike you back for a win since your life just jumped back up through the roof.

To the individual that suggested taking out a mountain for a karplusion, that is obviously incorrect since the lone mountain is fetchable with search for tomorrow, making the 1 mountain actually act as 5 mountains.


Vesuvan shapeshifter is a strictly better creature in T2 then Goyf. Goyf is a vanilla 3/4 or 4/5 that while efficient often has very little impact on a game, since that type of evasionless non CiP ability creature is generally pretty useless in this format. Shapeshifter on the other hand dominates whatever board it is on, is part of one of the best card advantage engines in standard history, and can single handedly turn games around. Shifter VS Goyf isn't even a contest in T2. You may have an arguement in say extended, but in t2 goyf just isn't that good....
Warhammer VS Garruk-- Warhammer is FAR more reliable then garruk for starters... it does its jobs no questions asked, not IF it manages to not get looked at for multiple turns. But more importantly you all seem to be forgeting the little fact that Hammer gains life....ALOT of life. I lone yavimaya dryad with a hammer on it can race 10 power worth of opposing creatures. If they kill dryad the hammer just hops onto somebody else allowing you to continue gaining obcene amounts of life. Throwing it on a chronicler not only garantees that the damage will get through, it also makes it impossible for them to strike you back for a win since your life just jumped back up through the roof.

You argument for Warhammer would be valid if you could reequip during the combat step.

You can't.

Therefore it's a sorcery speed mana hog that allows your opponents to gobble up your tempo reasonably easily.

The life gain is only relevant in the matchups that Hammer will never make contact, by the way.

However, it's still playable in here. I only query whether or not Garruk would fill the same slot (or a supporting slot even) better, because it is more applicable when you're not swinging for the win.

Either-or, I suppose.
Two notes off the top of my head.
1. This looks like a bad version of the good G/U decks, the ones that play the best cards, like Tarmagoyf, Troll Ascetic/c], and three [c]Garruk Wildspeaker.
2. This deck crawls into a futile corner vs. Dragonstorm, the new "It" deck.
And I'm adding a third.
3. People are focusing on questions regarding removal, or getting in damage to win. What does this deck do if you simply counter the expensive stuff? Swing with a 2-power 3 drop for 10 turns? Chronicler is the only creature in the deck that can do anything without being equipped with a hammer, and that's a bad formula. I'd test this against random decent decks from Worlds if I didn't think it was a waste of time. R/G Big Mana looks kinda like this, except it plays better acceleration and much better cards.
right when lorwyn came out I was posting/testing decks like this heavily, and I DO NOT like the heavy blue version of these decks. I splashed blue for Chronicler and in some academy ruins only. Chronicler is straight nuts in this style of deck, but you need to ask is Fathom Seer better than Shriekmaw? I often find Rune Snag pathetically useless, every time I play with it I become more and more disenchanted with it. Vesuvan Shapeshifter is the only other blue card I'd get giddy about running in this deck along with Chronicler, and even then, he's not gamebreaking. IMO and in my playtesting black for shriekmaw/profane/thoughseize/tendrils/damnation is better than vesuvan/looter/fathom/rune snag. All of my versions DID splash for blue for Chronicler, but your focusing too much on the blue I think.

I ran the accell/chronicler/primal command basis you've got (excpet I ran Wall of Roots over Birds).

I also think your failing to utilize Primal Command in this deck. You do have some nice targets, but none of them are really specific to anything, I really enjoyed Masticore + Squee in this deck, and you can resolve the masticore with squee in hand consistently by turn 4, which is INSANELY good.

and Garruk > Warhammer.

Basically, my opinion is I like the deck, but I think your running the wrong color =P
So far, after tweaking for some things that I think would help the deck here's what i have.

// Lands
1 [MR] Mountain (1)
4 [9E] Yavimaya Coast
10 [P3] Island (1)
5 [RAV] Forest (2)
2 [6E] Karplusan Forest

// Creatures
2 [TSB] Spike Feeder
1 [PLC] Shaper Parasite
4 [TSP] Vesuvan Shapeshifter
4 [TSP] Fathom Seer
1 [TSB] Willbender
4 [RAV] Birds of Paradise
4 [TSP] Yavimaya Dryad
1 [PLC] Deadwood Treefolk
4 [PLC] Aeon Chronicler

// Spells
2 [9E] Loxodon Warhammer
4 [TSP] Search for Tomorrow
4 [LOR] Thorn of Amethyst
3 [LOR] Primal Command

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [TSB] Spike Feeder
SB: 1 [PLC] Shaper Parasite
SB: 1 [LOR] Cloudthresher
SB: 2 [FS] Riftsweeper
SB: 1 [TSP] Fortune Thief
SB: 4 [OV] Pyroclasm
SB: 4 [PLC] Boom/Bust

In theory garruk>warhammer, but when playing, hammer often proved more useful than garruk. Often a garruk would die to beats in a coupld turns or burn, and boosting your 1/3 fathom seer was often much more useful than a 3/3 creature. The overrun abiltity I could see being useful as well...but it never came up. You really have so much mana you don't need it.

That's not to say garruk doesn't belong, it just seems hammer does a very nice job of what it does in this deck. Mostly winning. Often hammer will seem like a win more card in decks, but in here, it turns all your utility creatures into threats. It's very useful. And the lifegain doesn't hurt.

The thorn of amethyst is randomly amazing and often will slow decks enough for you to beat them with CA and Tempo alone. Willbender has proved itself handy for mindtricks (tutoring up one) and deflecting a number of cryptic commands at storage lands and/or teferi's.

Speaking of command, it really just acts as vesuvan's #5-7 with some added utility.

Spike feeder is to help the aggro match, combat tricks, and if you play a vesuvan copying it, I believe the counters remain on it after it flips, meaning you win mirror blocks and such. not to mention a nice 4/4 vanilla body when you're waiting to flip.

I see why he isn't running goyf though. Early game you're all about mana, and late game you don't need it, and I'd much rather be flipping morphs and equipping hammers than playing a vanilla 5/6...even if it is for 1G.

I don't think the deck is perfect, or metabreaking, but in the few test runs I had, I think it has a very good chance at becoming a solid deck choice.

~Wolfie~
Chrissimpson-- For starters Dragonstorm cannot beat this deck. Primal Command kicks Dragonstorm in the nuts and steals its lunch money, its completely and utterly unfair... Not to mention the tons of counters, and the little detail that Boom/Bust is the single best anti DS card in the format.

Goyf/Garruk/Troll are simply not good enough. Goyf and troll are pretty much worthless in this format. Garruk is fine, but he's SLOOOW, rarely does he have the impact on the game that you would want, because everything kills him before he does much.

And lastly...the deck doesn't care if its creatures are killed, or countered. You draw SOOO many cards that you'll just replay 3 or 4 more guys the next turn anyway... Hitting for 3 to 5 damage with little guys every turn is just fine when those guys are backed up by your out drawing your opponent by 3 to 5 times every turn.

Agony--Vesuvan/Fathom is DEFINITELY better then going black. When you really look at black it just doesn't offer anything useful. Theres creature removal with Shriekmaw, but cards like thoughtsieze look silly compared to a double one sided howling mines that copies CiP's at will. Fathom Seer DEFINITELY is better the Shriekmaw, and not by a little bit. Shriek is a 2 for 1 for 5, Seer is a 3 for 1 for 3 who also comboes into an unbeatable card draw engine.

As for garruk VS Hammer, its just not a contest. Hammer is a CRUSHING and alot of times theres going to be nothing your opponent can do about it. The life swing it produces is absolutely devastating, and its far more reliable, and faster the garruk ever is. If you got a ton of mana topdecking Hammer swings the game immediately, Garruk may start to become annoying in 3 to 4 turns assuming your opponent can't do anything about him.


Wolfie--I don't like Thorn main, theres just WAY to many creature based decks in this format which often leaves it doing nothing. Spike feeder also seems kinda silly when you can gain so much life via Command and Hammers anyway... Looter il Kor is also completely nuts, its better then you think and you should definitely be playing it. Shaper Parasite seems like it would be SO clunky, but I can see it occasionally being useful, Willbender seems like a pretty big waste of time though, who cares if they use removal on your guys, let them kill it and draw 3 more guys to replace it with...

The Looters will will turn mana flooded, and mana screwed hands into perfect draws, the fact that they are practically unblockable also turns them into an inevitabilty clock that can become very quick with a warhammer on it.

I can understand wanting to put in some additional silver bullet style critters in over runesnag, but Snag IS pretty danged good in this format... Just don't know about your current choices, they seem halfhazard, and generally inferior...
Chrissimpson-- For starters Dragonstorm cannot beat this deck. Primal Command kicks Dragonstorm in the nuts and steals its lunch money, its completely and utterly unfair... Not to mention the tons of counters, and the little detail that Boom/Bust is the single best anti DS card in the format.

Goyf/Garruk/Troll are simply not good enough. Goyf and troll are pretty much worthless in this format. Garruk is fine, but he's SLOOOW, rarely does he have the impact on the game that you would want, because everything kills him before he does much.

Primal Command? Gain 7 life? lol their Hellkites are really scared of +7 life and a few Rune Snags...which everyone ELSE it taking out. Goyf and Troll suck? Somebody better tell all the pros, since they were both heavily-played at worlds. And Garruk is slow? You sing the praises of Aeon Chronicler, one of the slowest creatures in the format lol.
I have 3 words for you....Nice...Draft...Deck. You may think Fathom Seer/Shapeshifter tricks are just awesome, but they're junk, else wise, pros would actually, ya know, PLAY them in their pickles decks.
Just to prove my point, I'm actually going to run this deck against Uri's Worlds deck. I'm predicting it'll be ugly, cause I dont think this deck has a chance. Results to come.
Primal Command? Gain 7 life? lol their Hellkites are really scared of +7 life and a few Rune Snags...which everyone ELSE it taking out. Goyf and Troll suck? Somebody better tell all the pros, since they were both heavily-played at worlds. And Garruk is slow? You sing the praises of Aeon Chronicler, one of the slowest creatures in the format lol.
I have 3 words for you....Nice...Draft...Deck. You may think Fathom Seer/Shapeshifter tricks are just awesome, but they're junk, else wise, pros would actually, ya know, PLAY them in their pickles decks.
Just to prove my point, I'm actually going to run this deck against Uri's Worlds deck. I'm predicting it'll be ugly, cause I dont think this deck has a chance. Results to come.

No, bounce their Knoll/Chargeland to library, then shuffle their GY into library if any RoFs are there. Otherwise gain 7 life and bounce land.
Agony--Vesuvan/Fathom is DEFINITELY better then going black. When you really look at black it just doesn't offer anything useful. Theres creature removal with Shriekmaw, but cards like thoughtsieze look silly compared to a double one sided howling mines that copies CiP's at will. Fathom Seer DEFINITELY is better the Shriekmaw, and not by a little bit. Shriek is a 2 for 1 for 5, Seer is a 3 for 1 for 3 who also comboes into an unbeatable card draw engine.

As for garruk VS Hammer, its just not a contest. Hammer is a CRUSHING and alot of times theres going to be nothing your opponent can do about it. The life swing it produces is absolutely devastating, and its far more reliable, and faster the garruk ever is. If you got a ton of mana topdecking Hammer swings the game immediately, Garruk may start to become annoying in 3 to 4 turns assuming your opponent can't do anything about him.

LOL, you got me laughing. Fathom Seer > Shriekmaw... and not by a little bit? go look at the format buddy, Shriekmaw is one of the most played cards right now, Fathom Seer sucks. Yes, it's decent card advantage, at the cost of a huge amount of tempo. It's rediculous how much you hype your own cards, your completely oblivious to the truth.

I see no combo other than making your chronicler a little fatter =/ which isn't even a combo at all...


and yeah, Garruk > Hammer again. You say it's reliable? how is requiring one of your little critters reliable? what do you do when it's killed in response to equip? is that really reliable? I call free mana + free men + overrun > a little life gain.
No, bounce their Knoll/Chargeland to library, then shuffle their GY into library if any RoFs are there. Otherwise gain 7 life and bounce land.

Bounce their Knoll/Chargeland is this deck's amazing turn 5 play? Awesome gameplan, why didn't anyone else think of that? Oh yeah....it sucks. You've obviously never seen this deck go off on turn 3. The problem with most people's opinions regarding Dragonstorm is that they only saw it play against Uri in the Finals. Uri's deck could disrupt it on turn 1, 2, and 3; that's why it took so long to go off. But waiting till turn FIVE to do anything is just a death wish.

Also, 61-card decks are tech lol. Especially those relying on 5-and-6 drops that play 21 lands. Tech.
Chris--Its not its amazing turn 5 play...its the decks amazing turn 3 or 4 play. Not only does the deck contain 22 lands not 21, but it also has a DOZEN mana accelerators. Add to that the fact that Dragon can't handle even the smallest amount of mana disruption and you have a matchup that is HUGELY in your favor. Post board Dragon has ZERO% chance against this build.

Agony-- In terms of card advantage Seer IS better then Maw. The tempo disadvantage doesn't exist if you play it properly, and even if you don't play it properly the large amounts of mana accel more then make up for it. It comes down to the question of a 3 for 1 for 3, or a 2 for 1 for 5 which is better? Chronicler is one combo with Seer, but you seem to be unaware of the MAIN combo..aka Vesuvan Shapeshifter... with Shifter the Seer not only is a 3 for 1, but it also doubles as a double one sided howling mine, basically becoming a 3 for 1 EVERY TURN. If they kill it immediately they are down by an ANCESTRAL RECALL, if they don't kill it immediately they are down by MULTIPLE ANCESTRAL RECALLS. About a 4th of the time you don't even play seer morphed if you already have shifter ready to go, and are semi low on lands...

Once again, if you think that Garruk is better then hammer, then you haven't played against enough hammers. It is NOT close, hammer is just hugely better at just about any point in the game. A hammer on a 1/1 can single handedly beat viscious agro draws. How much life do you need to start at before agro looks weak? Having hammer in your deck is the same as starting the game at between 34 and 50 life.... All while acting as a powerful offensive weapon. Garruk on the other hand takes multiple turns in order to act as a gloryfied call of the herd... Sure if they leave it alone garruk is great, but if they look at it funny he curls up and dies with no effect on the game. Hammer itself is very difficult for most decks to get rid of on the other hand... if they kill one guy you just throw it on another, practically all of your guys produce card advantage when they CiP anyway, so everything they kill is putting them behind in cards, and if they don't kill it they are falling REALLY far behind...

Axl--Most of the time I'll bounce one of their lands and search up either a Voidmage prodigy, or riftsweeper to set them back even more, but if you already have those guys the life gain makes it even more difficult to kill you. it is AMAZING over how devestating Primal Command is to dragonstorm, one resolving eliminates almost any chance they have of winning. Its similar to playing 3 time walks for 5 mana and a single card. Combine it with the decks abundant counters, and card draw to go get everything, not to mention the devastating SB Boom/Busts, and you have a deck that has Dragon by the balls...
Okay, I played a single game in the Doran vs. Horrible.dec(a fitting name, I thought) matchup. Here's the game log:
Turn 1 birds for Horrible.dec, into turn 2 Dryad and turn 3 dryad + Search for tomorrow.Turn 3 hardcast Doran, making all dryads 1/1s without forestwalk.
Turn 4 suspend Chronicler for 3 vs doran attacking and Ohran Viper. Fathom Seer to draw 2, search, then birds for Horrible.dec, Nameless Inversion on the Seer then attack, leaving Horrible.dec with 1 birds left.
Topdecked Shapeshifter kills Doran. Profane Command for 4 brings Doran back, kills Birds, and swings with Viper. Chronicler comes down as a 4/4, plus equip with Hammer. Shriekmaw kills Aeon through a Rune Snag, swing for 8.
Lilliana Vess comes down and tutors for another Profane Command. GG.

Horrible.dec drew 5 extra cards (3 from Aeon, 2 from Fathom Seer), and had 7 mana on turn 4, and still got crushed. It drew approximately 2 threats (Shapeshifter, traded with Doran, and Aeon Chronicler, which was killed by Shriekmaw), and the Hammer did nothing. The deck can't handle anything that's already on the board, and its threat count is so low that rolls over to removal. It also has no disruption, meaning it can't actually stop anyone elses plan. Basically, all it does is tutor up lands and draw some extra cards, at the expense of playing very few actual good cards itself. And these opinions are formed from actual playtesting, something I severely doubt the author actually did with the deck, contrary to their claim. Otherwise, these huge flaws would have been realized.

Standard's Strongest? More like Horrible.dec
Chris--Its not its amazing turn 5 play...its the decks amazing turn 3 or 4 play. Not only does the deck contain 22 lands not 21, but it also has a DOZEN mana accelerators. Add to that the fact that Dragon can't handle even the smallest amount of mana disruption and you have a matchup that is HUGELY in your favor. Post board Dragon has ZERO% chance against this build.

Agony-- In terms of card advantage Seer IS better then Maw. The tempo disadvantage doesn't exist if you play it properly, and even if you don't play it properly the large amounts of mana accel more then make up for it. It comes down to the question of a 3 for 1 for 3, or a 2 for 1 for 5 which is better? Chronicler is one combo with Seer, but you seem to be unaware of the MAIN combo..aka Vesuvan Shapeshifter... with Shifter the Seer not only is a 3 for 1, but it also doubles as a double one sided howling mine, basically becoming a 3 for 1 EVERY TURN. If they kill it immediately they are down by an ANCESTRAL RECALL, if they don't kill it immediately they are down by MULTIPLE ANCESTRAL RECALLS. About a 4th of the time you don't even play seer morphed if you already have shifter ready to go, and are semi low on lands...

Once again, if you think that Garruk is better then hammer, then you haven't played against enough hammers. It is NOT close, hammer is just hugely better at just about any point in the game. A hammer on a 1/1 can single handedly beat viscious agro draws. How much life do you need to start at before agro looks weak? Having hammer in your deck is the same as starting the game at between 34 and 50 life.... All while acting as a powerful offensive weapon. Garruk on the other hand takes multiple turns in order to act as a gloryfied call of the herd...

Axl--Most of the time I'll bounce one of their lands and search up either a Voidmage prodigy, or riftsweeper to set them back even more, but if you already have those guys the life gain makes it even more difficult to kill you. it is AMAZING over how devestating Primal Command is to dragonstorm, one resolving eliminates almost any chance they have of winning. Its similar to playing 3 time walks for 5 mana and a single card. Combine it with the decks abundant counters, and card draw to go get everything, not to mention the devastating SB Boom/Busts, and you have a deck that has Dragon by the balls...

you fail to understand sir =/ running infinite mana accell + infinite card draw + warhammers = bad deck. The deck fails to do anything at all, besides draw and play lands.

if your beating aggro with a 1/1 and warhammer and at 50 life... thats probably the worst aggro deck I've ever seen. What makes it even more pathetic, your alive and able to race the aggro deck starting turn 4. That basically means the aggro deck did NOTHING AT ALL.