Commander 2013 Rules Questions

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Hello there all,

 

I recently picked up Eternal Bargain,Mind  Seize and Evasive Manuevers. I'll be getting the two remaining decks within the next month as well so I wanted to clarify my rules questions with these three before any others arose from the others.

 

Evasive Manuevers

 

1) A situation came up where a Decree of Pain was cast in a game -- In response to the Decree being cast Stonecloaker was flashed in, exiling a card as well as returning Rubinia Soulsinger to the players hand. In this situation I believed that the Stonecloaker would be entering the field and would die to the Decree while saving Rubinia.

 

Is this correct?

 

Also, can you play Stonecloaker if there is not a card to exile?

 

2) I believe this was an intended combo but I just want to double check the ruling. If a player uses Rubinia and gains control of another creature while they control Conjurer's Closet, at the end of the turn if you target the stolen creature would it then return to the field under your control permanantly?

 

3) The next question applies to summoning sickness. If I have a Flickerform on a creature and use it during the player's turn before mine, exiling and returning itself and the creatre plus any enchantments, would that creature lose summoning sickness or would it still be subject to it? I assumed it would lose it.

 

4) Karmic Guide's echo cost must be played the turn after she is brought into play. But if I flickered her out and brought her back would that retrigger the echo cost again?

 

Also, if I flicker her in response to the echo cost would it avoid it?

 

5) The new curses have two distinct forms of wording as far as I can tell. The first wording, such as featured on Curse of the Forsaken and I believe the green curse as well would trigger the effect per creature, correct? Such as a +1/+1 counter for each creature or a life for each?

 

The remaining three only trigger once, correct?

 

6) Derevi, Empyrial Tactician's ability --- Does it trigger per creature dealing combat damage? Such as if I attack with 5 1/1 Saproling tokens I'd get to untap/tap five target permanants, correct?

 

If so, are these all applied to the stack and resolve seperately? Such as if I have a Kazandu Tuskcaller out and it is level 6 and can activate it's ability. I tap it and create two elephant tokens. Could I then untap it and then tap it again before every trigger? If so, in the above case, that would result in 12 elephants, correct?

 

Also, does Kazandu start as a level 0 or 1? I believe 0 per the text on the card.

 

Mind Seize

 

1) When Eye of Doom enters play can it target itself for the doom counter?

 

2) If I am correct in this Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge would be able to cast spells such as Prosperity with her ability but they would always have X = 0 correct?

 

3) Does the enchantment  Arcane Melee count my opponents Instant and Sorcery spells or just my own? Also, when reducing the cost of an X spell such as the Prosperity from the last question, does it effectively count as '2' free mana? Such as if I cast Prosperity for only the colored mana everyone would draw two? If I cast it for the colored mana and one extra we would all draw three?

 

Eternal Bargain

 

1) Just to clarify Order of Succession resolves at the same time for every player, correct? So that if I had 0 creatures, my opponent to the right had 1 and the next player had 1, the player to my left wouldn't get a creature because we all gain control simultaneously and not in order, we only pick in order, correct?

 

2) Act of Authority is an optional effect so a player may hold onto it as long as they wish after they gain control of it, yes?

 

3) Oloro, Ageless Ascetic has his second trigger occur whenever life is gained, regardless of how much, correct? Such as if I gained 1 life I could pay the cost or if I gained 5 I could pay the cost but I only pay once per instance, yes?

 

 

 

 

Well that should be all of them for now. Thanks a lot everyone! :D

 

Also I apologize if I did the auto-card incorrectly and I'll fix it asap if I did.

Rawrdotcom wrote:
1) A situation came up where a [C]Decree of Pain[/C] was cast in a game -- In response to the Decree being cast [C]Stonecloaker[/C] was flashed in, exiling a card as well as returning [C]Rubinia Soulsinger[/C] to the players hand. In this situation I believed that the Stonecloaker would be entering the field and would die to the Decree while saving Rubinia.

 

Is this correct?

Correct. When Decree of Pain eventually resolves, stonecloaker is on battlefield, but Rubinia Soulsinger is not.
Also, can you play Stonecloaker if there is not a card to exile?
Yes.
2) I believe this was an intended combo but I just want to double check the ruling. If a player uses Rubinia and gains control of another creature while they control [C]Conjurer's Closet[/C], at the end of the turn if you target the stolen creature would it then return to the field under your control permanantly?
Yes.
3) The next question applies to summoning sickness. If I have a [C]Flickerform[/C} on a creature and use it during the player's turn before mine, exiling and returning itself and the creatre plus any enchantments, would that creature lose summoning sickness or would it still be subject to it? I assumed it would lose it.
After returning to the battlefield, it has summoning sickness. Summoning sickness wears off once you begin your turn, which may be very soon.
4) [C]Karmic Guide[/C]'s echo cost must be played the turn after she is brought into play. But if I flickered her out and brought her back would that retrigger the echo cost again?
Yes, you'll need to pay the echo cost in teh upkeep after you flicker it.
Also, if I flicker her in response to the echo cost would it avoid it?
You'll avoid paying the echo this turn, but echo will trigger next turn
5) The new curses have two distinct forms of wording as far as I can tell. The first wording, such as featured on [C]Curse of the Forsaken[/C] and I believe the green curse as well would trigger the effect per creature, correct? Such as a +1/+1 counter for each creature or a life for each?
Correct. Curse of the Forsaken and Curse of Predation will trigger one per creature.
The remaining three only trigger once, correct?
Correct. Curse of Shallow Graves, Curse of Inertia, and Curse of Chaos will only trigger once, even if you attack that player with multiple creatures.
6) [C]Derevi, Empyrial Tactician[/C]'s ability --- Does it trigger per creature dealing combat damage? Such as if I attack with 5 1/1 Saproling tokens I'd get to untap/tap five target permanants, correct?
Per creature. 5 saprolings will result in 5 Twiddles.
If so, are these all applied to the stack and resolve seperately? Such as if I have a [C]Kazandu Tuskcaller[/C] out and it is level 6 and can activate it's ability. I tap it and create two elephant tokens. Could I then untap it and then tap it again before every trigger?
Yes, they are separate triggers and you can respond after each. If so, in the above case, that would result in 12 elephants, correct?[/quote]That seems the correct number to me.
Also, does Kazandu start as a level 0 or 1? I believe 0 per the text on the card.
0

1) When [C]Eye of Doom[/C] enters play can it target itself for the doom counter?
Eye of Doom can be choosen, yes. This ability does not target though.
2) If I am correct in this [C]Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge[/C] would be able to cast spells such as [C]Prosperity[/C] with her ability but they would always have X = 0 correct?
Correct.
3) Does the enchantment  [C]Arcane Melee[/C] count my opponents Instant and Sorcery spells or just my own?
It applies to all instants and sorceries, including your opponents'
Also, when reducing the cost of an X spell such as the [C]Prosperity[/C] from the last question, does it effectively count as '2' free mana?
Effectively, yes.First, pick what value you want X to be. Then calculate the total cost, taking into account the cost reduction
Such as if I cast Prosperity for only the colored mana everyone would draw two? If I cast it for the colored mana and one extra we would all draw three?
If you pick x = 3, the spell will cost - = . If you pick x = 2 it will cost  - = . If you pick x = 1, it will cost  - = .

1) Just to clarify [C]Order of Succession[/C] resolves at the same time for every player, correct?
The choices are made sequentially. After all the choices have been made, all chosen creatures simultaneously change controller.
2) [C]Act of Authority[/C] is an optional effect so a player may hold onto it as long as they wish after they gain control of it, yes?
Yes, both abilities are optional (because they use the word "may").
3) [C]Oloro, Ageless Ascetic[/C] has his second trigger occur whenever life is gained, regardless of how much, correct?
Correct.

Rawrdotcom wrote:
1) A situation came up where a Decree of Pain was cast in a game -- In response to the Decree being cast Stonecloaker was flashed in, exiling a card as well as returning Rubinia Soulsinger to the players hand. In this situation I believed that the Stonecloaker would be entering the field and would die to the Decree while saving Rubinia.

 

Is this correct?

 

Also, can you play Stonecloaker if there is not a card to exile?

That's correct. Stonecloaker enters and bounces a creature before Drecree of Pain resolves, so it's on the battlefield to be destroyed. You exile a card after it enters the battlefield, so the game has no way of knowing if exiling a card is possible when you cast it (as opposed to something like Skaab Ruinator, which exiles a card when you cast it). However, the exile is mandatory. If there is a legal target, you must pick one.

2) I believe this was an intended combo but I just want to double check the ruling. If a player uses Rubinia and gains control of another creature while they control Conjurer's Closet, at the end of the turn if you target the stolen creature would it then return to the field under your control permanantly?
Yes.

3) The next question applies to summoning sickness. If I have a Flickerform on a creature and use it during the player's turn before mine, exiling and returning itself and the creatre plus any enchantments, would that creature lose summoning sickness or would it still be subject to it? I assumed it would lose it.
If you haven't controlled a creature since the beginning of your most recent turn, it has summoning sickness. It will have summoning sickness when it returns, but at the start of your turn, it will be "cured".

4) Karmic Guide's echo cost must be played the turn after she is brought into play. But if I flickered her out and brought her back would that retrigger the echo cost again?
Echo applies the turn after it comes under your control. If you flicker it, it's entering the battlefield (and your control), so you have to pay echo again.

Also, if I flicker her in response to the echo cost would it avoid it?
Yes.

5) The new curses have two distinct forms of wording as far as I can tell. The first wording, such as featured on Curse of the Forsaken and I believe the green curse as well would trigger the effect per creature, correct? Such as a +1/+1 counter for each creature or a life for each?
The white and green curses trigger per creature. The others trigger per attacking player.

6) Derevi, Empyrial Tactician's ability --- Does it trigger per creature dealing combat damage? Such as if I attack with 5 1/1 Saproling tokens I'd get to untap/tap five target permanants, correct?

 

If so, are these all applied to the stack and resolve seperately? Such as if I have a Kazandu Tuskcaller out and it is level 6 and can activate it's ability. I tap it and create two elephant tokens. Could I then untap it and then tap it again before every trigger? If so, in the above case, that would result in 12 elephants, correct?

 

Also, does Kazandu start as a level 0 or 1? I believe 0 per the text on the card.

Yes to all. The level of a levelup creature is the amount of level counters on it.  They start with zero (like everything else).

1) When Eye of Doom enters play can it target itself for the doom counter?
Yes, it's a permanent.

2) If I am correct in this Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge would be able to cast spells such as Prosperity with her ability but they would always have X = 0 correct?
Yes.

3) Does the enchantment  Arcane Melee count my opponents Instant and Sorcery spells or just my own? Also, when reducing the cost of an X spell such as the Prosperity from the last question, does it effectively count as '2' free mana? Such as if I cast Prosperity for only the colored mana everyone would draw two? If I cast it for the colored mana and one extra we would all draw three?
It counts for all instant and sorcery spells, including your opponents'. It reduces the cost of X. This isn't the same as "adding free mana" but the end result is pretty much the same. For example, if you make Jeleva cost [1] less, you only spent 3 mana to cast her.

 

1) Just to clarify Order of Succession resolves at the same time for every player, correct? So that if I had 0 creatures, my opponent to the right had 1 and the next player had 1, the player to my left wouldn't get a creature because we all gain control simultaneously and not in order, we only pick in order, correct?
All the choices are made first, then control of each creature changes simultaneously.

2) Act of Authority is an optional effect so a player may hold onto it as long as they wish after they gain control of it, yes?
Yes, that's what the "may" means.

3) Oloro, Ageless Ascetic has his second trigger occur whenever life is gained, regardless of how much, correct? Such as if I gained 1 life I could pay the cost or if I gained 5 I could pay the cost but I only pay once per instance, yes?
Yes, but remember that gaining 0 life doesn't count as life gain.

Rules Advisor

Please autocard: [c]Shard Phoenix[/c] = Shard Phoenix.

Evasive Maneuvers

 

1) Correct. Stonecloaker enters the battlefield before the Decree resolves having you return a creature you control and exile a target card in a graveyard (if possible, if it's not, that trigger is simply removed from the stack, but nothing prevents you from casting the Stonecloaker). when Decree resolves, it will destroy every creature on the battlefield at that time.

 

2) Yes. Since Conjurer's Closet specifically returns the permanent under your control. There will be no control change effect on it anymore. It just will be controlled by you as the default.

 

3) Summoning sickness isn't something a creature can gain or lose. It is eiuther affected by the rule or not. To not be affected by it, you have to have controlled the permanent continuously since your most recent turn began, or it needs to have haste.

 

4) Echo has to be paid in the upkeep of your next turn after it came under your control. If you flicker an echo creature, you'll have to pay again next turn. If you flicker it in response to the echo trigger, you're good for thius turn, but need to pay next turn.

 

5) Yes.

 

6) Correct on all counts. Level up creatures all start with zero level counters, and thus are level 0.

 

Mind Seize

 

1) You can choose it, yes. Mind, that the ability doesn't target. anything.

 

2) Yes. When casting an X spell "without paying its mana cost" the only legal choice for X is zero.

 

3) Every player is affected. You must still choose a value for X, and if that value is 2 or less, then you effectively don't pay the generic part of the spell, yes. but this is not a default, you need to choose a value. What you have to pay is calculated based on this, not the other way around.

 

Eternal Bargain

 

1) First, every player chooses, then control of them all is changed simultaneously. If no choice can be made, that player is out of luck.

 

2) Yes.

 

3) Correct.

 

I'm glad to hear all of the responses.

 

Everything was played correctly apart from not knowing whether or not Eye of Doom could put a counter on itself and we didn't take into affect Arcane Melee lowering everyone's cost, only the Jelava player. Either way it wouldn't have made a difference really in the game in question.

 

Thank you all very much for the clarifications.

The question becomes, why would anyone opt to put a doom counter on Eye of Doom?  You *can*,. but the fact that you want to leads me to believe you possibly misread the card.

 

Are you misunderstanding it by thinking each player must put a doom counter on a permanent they themselves control?  Bedcause that's not how it works.  You're usually putting a doom counter on a permanent you don't control, because you want to be rid of it.  And other players are prone to put the doom counter on permanent other than Eye of Doom because when Eye of Doom activates it's sacrificing itself anyway.

 

Sure there are political reasons why one might want do do so (effectively forfeiting your doom counter rather than risk angering someone by marking an important permanent for destruction), and maybe even unusual few-permanents-in-play reasons where the only alternatives are permanents you'd rather keep around.

 

Arcane Melee does what it says. To clear up confusion, compare to Nivix Guildmage, Cast Through Time, or Fire Servant, which all say "instant or sorcery you control."

Then compare Arcane Melee to Sphere of Resistance, which also affects everybody. If it was meant to affect just you, it would say so.

(The actual template for a one-sided Arcane Melee would refer to "instant or sorcery spells you cast" (not "you control"). See Goblin Electromancer.)