## Is this right?

7 posts / 0 new
2goth4U
Joined Oct 2007
10356 Posts
{2/U}{2/U}{2/U}
Sorcery
({2/U} can be paid with any two mana or with {U}. This card's converted mana cost is 6.)
Look at the top five cards of your library. If you control more creatures than any other player, put two of those cards into your hand. Otherwise, put one of them into your hand. Then put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.

* In a multiplayer game, compare the number of creatures you control with the number of creatures each other player controls. If any single player controls at least as many creatures as you, you get to put only one card into your hand.

am I missing something here or does the note not match the spell description?

2 player game
if C(me) > C(opp), then take 2, else take 1

3 player game (aka Multiplayer)
"If you control more creatures than any other player,"
so if (C(me) > C(opp1)) or (C(me) > C(opp2)), then take 2, else take 1

so if I have more than either Opponent 1 or Opponent 2 then I draw 2
but the note says "If any single player controls at least as many creatures as you, you get to put only one card into your hand"

which translates as...
if (C(Opp1) >= C(me)) or (C(Opp2) >= C(me)), then take 1, else take 2

the two statements are not logically or functionally equivalent.

eg.
C(me) = 4
C(opp1) = 5
C(opp2) = 1

from card logic
if (C(me) > C(opp1)) or (C(me) > C(opp2)), then take 2, else take 1
if (4>5) or (4>1), then take 2, else take 1
if (false or true), then take 2, else take 1
if (true), then take 2, else take 1
Result take 2

from note logic
if (C(Opp1) >= C(me)) or (C(Opp2) >= C(me)), then take 1, else take 2
if ((5>=4) or (1>=4)), then take 1, else take 2
if (true or false), then take 1, else take 2
if (true), then take 1, else take 2
Result take 1

Obviously, they both can't be correct.

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cyphern
Joined Jan 2003
19351 Posts
Edit: my original post seems to be incorrect.

"Than any other player" means "than every other player". If this were not the case, then Thoughtbound Primoc could very well find itself being torn into pieces as multiple players try to take control of it.
Avedomni
Joined Apr 2004
2787 Posts
The word "any" has (at least) two meaning in English ("every", or "at least one"), both of which get used in various ways in Magic. So far as we're aware, the comparison "than any other player" has consistently been ruled to mean "than every other player".
2goth4U
Joined Oct 2007
10356 Posts
So far as we're aware, the comparison "than any other player" has consistently been ruled to mean "than every other player".

though that changes the meaning again...

"If you control more creatures than any every other player"

seems to be confusing

it could mean

if C(me) > (C(opp1)+C(opp2))

or alternatively

if (C(me) > C(opp1)) and (C(me) > C(opp2))

this second meaning is logically equivalent to the note.

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DJ Vortex

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Mr_Rose
Joined Oct 2004
2927 Posts
I would suggest "each other player" as a substitute wording that makes it clearer, if a little clunky.
ΦΦΦΦΦ
2goth4U
Joined Oct 2007
10356 Posts
I would suggest "each other player" as a substitute wording that makes it clearer, if a little clunky.

I definitely like this wording better, it certainly is clearer.

I don't find it clunky at all.

"If you control more creatures than each other player"

it indicates both the individuality of each player entity and keeps the requirement to have more than all of the players.

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

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condor
Joined Mar 2001
818 Posts
The word "any" has (at least) two meaning in English...

No, it has only one, really. "Any FOO" means "one FOO without specification or identification." Where people go wrong, is assuming they get to identify a specific FOO in a phrase like Advice from the Fae uses. They don't. If there is an "other player" for whom the condition is false, then you don't get the cards.

So far as we're aware, the comparison "than any other player" has consistently been ruled to mean "than every other player".

Well "then any one other player that could be identified by anyone." Because that is exactly what it means.

And "than each other player" could mean you add them up.