Excerpts: Paladin

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 Prepare yourself for another LG Paladin flame war!    Hide your family!  Flee!   Its not safe here!    

  Looks like things haven't really changed much from the playtest.

 

  Not sure why they feel the need to call paladins out as being super rare anymore.  It feels like they're the Force of Nature to the fighter's Grizzly Bear.

Except for the sworn to take vengeance part, the rest of them describe the good old Lawful Good Paladin of D&D. Why in the hell do they need to break up the one concept into so many different ones?

 

Lame.

I don't know exactly how I feel about folding avenger and warden into the paladin, but it is better than not having wardens or avengers at all. I want to see the sacred oath features, dammit

 

And their spell list. I hope they get some unique spells, not just nerfed cleric or wizard spells.

I don't want to be an edition warrior. I think there was something good and something bad in all the editions I played. I do, however, believe that the game has gotten better over the years (and decades). I hope this holds true into the future.

Peace.

 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/21.jpg)

Did we have actual confirmation before this that the 1/2 casters don't get Cantrips or spellcasting until 2nd level?

seti wrote:
And their spell list. I hope they get some unique spells, not just nerfed cleric or wizard spells.
They did in the playtest.

There was some overlaped with the cleric, but they also had alot of smiting spells.  Hit with an attack, deal bonus damage, and possibly some other effect.

 

Nice to see a dwarven sneaky paladin as an "offical" option.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

DemoMonkey wrote:
Did we have actual confirmation before this that the 1/2 casters don't get Cantrips or spellcasting until 2nd level?
No other 1/2 caster was shown.

 

Though, if you count lay-on-hands, they get it from 1.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

DemoMonkey wrote:

Did we have actual confirmation before this that the 1/2 casters don't get Cantrips or spellcasting until 2nd level?

Nope.    We don't even know if they are lack Cantrips.   The pally could be getting 1 or 2 at the beginning, and just not learning more, so there's no need to add them to the chart.

 

As far as I know, the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster are half casters as well, and the Arcane Trickster specializes in using Mage Hand.   So...  time will tell.

REALLY love the role play idea of playing an alignment that doesn't quite fit with your oath. Trying to overcome your base human nature to attain that higher holiness will make for some awesome RP oppurtunity.

 

I am so excited. Paladins are my favorite class. 

 

(Please don't turn this into an alignment flame thread. Please please please pretty please?)

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I really like how they mention that you should already know and understand your oath at level 1, even though it doesn't start giving you class features until level 3.

The metagame is not the game.

And there's nothing that says Lawful Good liek donning a black cloak and sneaking in to an orc encampment during the dead of night to start killing them with extreme prejudice.

Gunthar wrote:

And there's nothing that says Lawful Good liek donning a black cloak and sneaking in to an orc encampment during the dead of night to start killing them with extreme prejudice.

 

Boondock Saints style. Law of God(s).

Role Play Craft : Crafting Ideas, Modules, and Options for your Role Playing Game. Now with reviews!

Last year, DC Comics did a "Villain Month" where all their comics starred villains. It was an interesting experiment, but didn't go too well because it just ended up pointing out some of the more... problematic... implications of the list of villainous origin stories DC used. Like the fact that about half the issues had the plot "Person is abused, turns evil."

 

D&D has a half-orc as the giant image on the first page of the Paladin class section.

 

I love D&D so very much.

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I wish I could see one more page so I could create my favorite old paladin, Lance Goodthrust.

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iserith wrote:

I wish I could see one more page so I could create my favorite old paladin, Lance Goodthrust.

In my group, such a character would be  a servant of the gods of hedonism.   Or so we'd tell everyone, even if he wasn't really.   With a name like that, however, rumors would spread about his, ahem, sacred sword and the dextrous use he puts it to.   Truly, the most powerful position for such a holy being would be on the knees.   

Mephi1234 wrote:

 Prepare yourself for another LG Paladin flame war!    Hide your family!  Flee!   Its not safe here!    

There doesn't seem to be any alignment-locks, other than "blah blah blah holy blah blah" exposition, thus ignorable fluff.

Qmark wrote:

 

Mephi1234 wrote:

 Prepare yourself for another LG Paladin flame war!    Hide your family!  Flee!   Its not safe here!    

 

There doesn't seem to be any alignment-locks, other than "blah blah blah holy blah blah" exposition, thus ignorable fluff.

 

I actually think they've rather elegantly taken the midde road. The fluff is obviously pro-good (or at least attempt to be good, via the paragraph on trying to obtain the goodliness), and so sets the atmosphere for a person of just and goodly intention. Without an alignment restriction, however, anyone is of course free to do what they like with the class.

 

I really hope this helps to eliminate the need for the flame threads, and emphasizes that Paladins are what they once were for those that want them to be that way. I think making the fluff strongly in that direction is an olive branch both ways.

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I like the bit about "your oath might represent standards of behavior you have not yet attained."  I will be curious to see what sacred oath benefits are for wardens.

I love what they've done with the paladin. Instead of enforcing a specific alignment, they've baked the ideals that Lawful Good represents into the concept of the class itself:

 

  • Paladins are"united by their oaths to stand against the forces of evil."
  • They swear "to uphold justice and righteousness, to stand with the good things of the world against the encroaching darkness, and to hunt the forces of evil wherever they lurk."
  • They have the "power to heal the sick and injured, to smite the wicked and the undead, and to protect the innocent ..."
  • "Every paladin lives on the front lines of the cosmic struggle against evil."
  • They abandon their former occupations to "take up arms to fight evil."
  • A paladin might be a "devoted servant of good", a "glorious champion of the light", or an "embittered loner sworn to take vengeance on those who have done great evil ...".
  • Paladins are "guardians against the forces of wickedness ...". Most "walk the paths of charity and justice."

It's almost like they're encouraging people to choose an alignment other than Lawful Good so that you can give your character a bit of internal conflict. As long as you are fighting evil, it doesn't matter what your own alignment is. You could be like Dexter or the Punisher ~ a bad guy who does bad things to bad people in the name of the greater good. LOL. Great stuff.

 

I think this might go some way to explaining why blackguards are in the DMG, while drow, tieflings, assassins and necromancers are in the PHB. Drow and tieflings can be good, or they can want to be good, and assassins and necromancers can ostensibly use their nefarious powers for the greater good. They can be anti-heroes. A blackguard, on the other hand, isn't an anti-hero. They're the opposite of heroes. They're fundamentally opposed to good, just like a paladin is fundamentally opposed to evil, no matter what an individual's alignment is. Think Vader (blackguard) vs Luke (paladin) here.

 

That being said, I can't think of any good reason to relegate the cleric's Death domain to the DMG. If necromancers can be in the PHB, then so can clerics of the death gods, especially since many of them oppose the goals of necromancers in the first place (what with undeath being a way to cheat the death gods of their due and all).

"Patience is the calm acceptance that things can happen in a different order than the one you have in mind."

~ David G Allen

 

D&D 5e Session Recaps:

Dreams of the Red Wizards (Scourge of the Sword Coast)

A Hoard to Remember (Tyranny of Dragons)

 

My playtest paladin can heave a sigh of relief. His prayers have been answered and he's good to go. I'm pleased too, it would be a shame to waste his 106 page backstory ...

B I
Half orc paladin image? D&D with dat bravery.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

Mephi1234 wrote:

 Prepare yourself for another LG Paladin flame war!    Hide your family!  Flee!   Its not safe here!    

Yeah let's not go there...

It's not perfect...but it's fun. Just play and enjoy.

I can't unsee the cropping of the characters on these pages.  

i like the background more then the half-orc Paladin of Torm, the shield just looks so ugly and elven.

Teggerdine wrote:
...the shield just looks so ugly and elven.
How can it look both of those adjectives?

 

You are just tossing out a bit of a logic traps to try and fry the brains of any robots reading the forums, right?

ATTENTION:  If while reading my post you find yourself thinking "Either this guy is being sarcastic, or he is an idiot," do please assume that I am an idiot. It makes reading your replies more entertaining. If, however, you find yourself hoping that I am not being even remotely serious then you are very likely correct as I find irreverence and being ridiculous to be relaxing.

ShadoWWW wrote:

 

I like it and tip my hat at the obvious respect paid to the original AD&D style LG Paladin. I think people who like the class will choose to be LG/G without being forced to. 

Orzel wrote:
Half orc paladin image? D&D with dat bravery.

 

Nothing brave about it. 3e and 4e had them. The character concept of a half orc child left at a church by a mother that didnt want it (understandably maybe) and raised to be a paladin is pretty much old hat at this point.

Orzel wrote:
Half orc paladin image? D&D with dat bravery.

 

Interesting choice! Holy symbol is Torm, perhaps? Hand is facing the wrong way, but has no eye so not likely Helm.

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:

 

Teggerdine wrote:
...the shield just looks so ugly and elven.

How can it look both of those adjectives?

 

You are just tossing out a bit of a logic traps to try and fry the brains of any robots reading the forums, right?

I just want to know how a shield can look elven without the nature motif.

Mephi1234 wrote:

 

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:

 

Teggerdine wrote:
...the shield just looks so ugly and elven.

How can it look both of those adjectives?

 

You are just tossing out a bit of a logic traps to try and fry the brains of any robots reading the forums, right?

 

I just want to know how a shield can look elven without the nature motif.

 

Elf does not = nature. 

To me the large elipsoide jewel and gold work with the embelished points looks like some of the art work for elven made objects in previous editions, most notably 3.5.  Also Skyrim elven shields and  

 

Some style simularity.

 

The rest of the Orcs armor is actually nice.

 

More than anything else it is the fact that the image of the paladin wasn't blended into the scene. Look closely and you will see rough edges.

Teggerdine wrote:

To me the large elipsoide jewel and gold work with the embelished points looks like some of the art work for elven made objects in previous editions, most notably 3.5.  Also Skyrim elven shields and  

 

Some style simularity.

 

The rest of the Orcs armor is actually nice.

 

More than anything else it is the fact that the image of the paladin wasn't blended into the scene. Look closely and you will see rough edges.

 

Actually that is a High elf dragon knight from Warhammer fantasy battles. 

Well, then the artist must play alot of WFB, just like I do.  Images tend to run together.

 

For me the shield isn't very attractive, but anyone else can go ahead and like it.  The 5e Paladin is awesome either way.

The half-orc Paladin doesn't meld into the scene because he originally had a blank-backdrop, much like the Half-elf Bard from the earlier reveal.  On the Bard-artist's deviant-art page, he said that the artists who did the character art were asked to have no backdrops so that the art could be pasted in however the final book designers wanted. 

You have a discerning eye to see that they don't match.  Another example of this happening is the Hafling Art on the new website.  you may notice a different backdrop on two different pages for the Hafling race.

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

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A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

Marandahir wrote:

The half-orc Paladin doesn't meld into the scene because he originally had a blank-backdrop, much like the Half-elf Bard from the earlier reveal.  On the Bard-artist's deviant-art page, he said that the artists who did the character art were asked to have no backdrops so that the art could be pasted in however the final book designers wanted. 

You have a discerning eye to see that they don't match.  Another example of this happening is the Hafling Art on the new website.  you may notice a different backdrop on two different pages for the Hafling race.

 

I totally missed that...

TiaNadiezja wrote:

Last year, DC Comics did a "Villain Month" where all their comics starred villains. It was an interesting experiment, but didn't go too well because it just ended up pointing out some of the more... problematic... implications of the list of villainous origin stories DC used. Like the fact that about half the issues had the plot "Person is abused, turns evil."

 

D&D has a half-orc as the giant image on the first page of the Paladin class section.

 

I love D&D so very much.

 

Have you heard of the indie comic "Something Terrible?" It's an interesting discussion of the dangers of mythologizing the "cycle of abuse." Just thought you might find it interesting. ;)

 

http://comicsalliance.com/something-terrible-dean-trippe-review-comic-batman-child-abuse/

Without having read the paladin exceprt, is it just me or is that paladin a goblinoid, possibly a bugbear?

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

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Also, I love that the went this route rather than just making saying that a Guardian is an LG paladin, an Avenger is a LN paladin, Blackguard is LE, etc. ALL paladins are dedicated to fighting evil and defending good, and the subclasses focus on different aspects of that. I also agree that it's good to have a distinction between their oaths and their personal alignment or beliefs. I love paladins who just want to kick the crap out of some evil without all the pious babbling, kind of like that Orc dude in the picture.

 

P.S., we're like 4/4 on these class samples showing characters that look (1) badass, (2) iconic, and yet (3) distinctive enough to have their own spice. Not only the class/race combo, but also the expression, the jewelry, and the style of clothing and armor all combine to make this an intriguing character. The creepy warlock girl was my favorite, but the androgynous bard manages some great rock star swagger and the sorcerer looks like his blood is really boiling with ancient magic. Man do I want this book!

MechaPilot wrote:

Without having read the paladin exceprt, is it just me or is that paladin a goblinoid, possibly a bugbear?



He's a Half-orc.  The new website has a Races section, and that Paladin's picture is used for the Half-orc page.

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

IMAGE(http://images.onesite.com/community.wizards.com/user/marandahir/thumb/9ac5d970f3a59330212c73baffe4c556.png?v=90000)

A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:

Except for the sworn to take vengeance part, the rest of them describe the good old Lawful Good Paladin of D&D.

 

They sound like three different archetypes to me: 1) Lawful Good, 2) Any Good (or at least any non-evil), and 3) Any alignment.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

#BoobsNotBlood

Marandahir wrote:

 

MechaPilot wrote:

Without having read the paladin exceprt, is it just me or is that paladin a goblinoid, possibly a bugbear?

 

 


He's a Half-orc.  The new website has a Races section, and that Paladin's picture is used for the Half-orc page.

 

 

The new website has a races section?  Where? 

 

Edit: Nevermind.  I found it.  Thanks for telling me about it though.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

#BoobsNotBlood

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