Will Your Paladins be Lawful Good/ Have Restrictions?

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In your campaigns, will you restrict the alignment of paladins?

 

Or, if no alignment restriction, will they have codes of conduct or oaths that need to be followed? Or religious restrictions/taboos that need to be maintained?

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The_Jester wrote:

In your campaigns, will you restrict the alignment of paladins?

 

Or, if no alignment restriction, will they have codes of conduct or oaths that need to be followed? Or religious restrictions/taboos that need to be maintained?

The leaked alpha is rumored to list specific behavior tenets that are required by each Paladin subclass, but only suggestions for what alignments typically swear each oath.

Yes.  Because Paladins have always been Lawful Good.

 

Now, will there be other Holy Champions that aren't LG?  Well, yes.  But they won't be called Paladins.

 

Blackguards, Champions or whatever, but Paladin is for any holy warrior archetype that is both good, and follows a code. 

I don't believe the alpha stuff.   Anyways, I don't care about alignment.   Too much arguing over what is or isn't part of such and such block.   Such worthless discusions or debates.

 

 

Either way, almost every paladin is going to be associated with a god of some kind, no?    So, using gods from FR, Greyhawk, or whatever?  They got easy to reference wiki pages that list beliefs and attitudes and practices they need to follow.   That's much better and less subjective.    

 

You swear an oath.  You follow oath.    We'll even write out the oath.  Much easier in my mind.

Yeah, I don't care for alignments...Unless a campaign world is built on them mattering a lot. I do like that idea...A world where alignment effects everything. 

 

For me, 'paladins' will be of any alignment they choose, but they will have a code they must follow, and a deity (like a cleric) they follow/act as inforcers for as well.

I don't want to be an edition warrior. I think there was something good and something bad in all the editions I played. I do, however, believe that the game has gotten better over the years (and decades). I hope this holds true into the future.

Peace.

 

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Mephi1234 wrote:
Either way, almost every paladin is going to be associated with a god of some kind, no?    So, using gods from FR, Greyhawk, or whatever?  They got easy to reference wiki pages that list beliefs and attitudes and practices they need to follow.   That's much better and less subjective.    

 

You swear an oath.  You follow oath.    We'll even write out the oath.  Much easier in my mind.

 

i agree with this completely.  If we can judge clerics actions based on what their deity wants/requires then there is absolutely no reason for paladins not to function exactly the same way.  I have seen too many people sour on their paladin character over alignment arguments. 

The_Jester wrote:

In your campaigns, will you restrict the alignment of paladins?

 

Or, if no alignment restriction, will they have codes of conduct or oaths that need to be followed? Or religious restrictions/taboos that need to be maintained?

 

Paladins in my games don't have alignment restrictions.  However, they do swear oaths, either as part of a formal induction ceremony or directly to their deity while in prayer.  When a player decides to play a paladin, I work with the player to construct an oath that is flavorful and appropriate to the character and the setting.  I have certain minimum requirements for the oath.  For example, just asking a deity for power to avenge your family isn't going to work, neither will simply saying "I will serve you."  The character has to be specific about what she will do to serve her deity.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

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I don't run alignments in my games, so no.

Standard Answer to all 5E rules questions: "Ask your DM."

Here is an example:

 

“Tenets of Devotion
Though the exact words and strictures of the Oath of Devotion vary, paladins of this oath share these tenets.
  Honesty. Don’t lie or cheat. Let your word be your promise.
  Courage. Never fear to act, though caution is wise.
  Compassion. Aid others, protect the weak, and punish those who threaten them. Show mercy to your foes, but temper it with wisdom.
  Honor. Treat others with fairness, and let your honorable deeds be an example to them. Do as much good as possible while causing the least amount of harm.
  Duty. Be responsible for your actions and their consequences, protect those entrusted to your care, and obey those who have just authority over you.”

Paladins are Lawful and they are Good. And if they stray from the path of Lawfulness or Goodness, then they lose their God-given paladin abilities.

 

If you want to play a holy warrior of another alignment, then that's fine, but it is not a paladin.

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The_Jester wrote:

In your campaigns, will you restrict the alignment of paladins?

 

Or, if no alignment restriction, will they have codes of conduct or oaths that need to be followed? Or religious restrictions/taboos that need to be maintained?

 

Paladins will have to obey the tenets of their gods.

CVB wrote:

Yes.  Because Paladins have always been Lawful Good.

 

Now, will there be other Holy Champions that aren't LG?  Well, yes.  But they won't be called Paladins.

 

Blackguards, Champions or whatever, but Paladin is for any holy warrior archetype that is both good, and follows a code. 

 

Paladins of Tyranny, Slaughter and Freedom disagree with the first claim.

In my setting, "paladin" is just a synonym for "knight". Characters of the paladin class are simply warriors with some proficiency with "light magic", but have no connection to a deity at all. So no, there are no behavioral restrictions on my paladins.

Standard Answer to all 5E rules questions: "Ask your DM."

I'll do whatever the rules say to do with regard to paladins.

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For me, Paladins aren't necessarily tied to a divinity, but regardless, they do follow complex codes, which are worked out when the character is created.  Part of the reason I've found that people play Paladins is for that character arc, holding powerful beliefs about what is right and what is wrong, and trying to negotiate that in a world full of problems.  But I'm not going to mechanically punish the player for breaking alignment.  The story will do that enough: being an oathbreaker can have dire consequences (look at the Men of Dunharrow in Lord of the Rings, for example, cursed to wander the earth until they can finally fulfill their oath to Isildur's heir). 

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akaddk wrote:

Paladins are Lawful and they are Good. And if they stray from the path of Lawfulness or Goodness, then they lose their God-given paladin abilities.

 

If you want to play a holy warrior of another alignment, then that's fine, but it is not a paladin.

 

+1

My paladins will have the Charisma and skills to intimidate/deceive the targets of their misdeeds into saying nothing, thus being able to get away with anything.

My paladins will drive Bugatti Veyrons.

I don't want to be an edition warrior. I think there was something good and something bad in all the editions I played. I do, however, believe that the game has gotten better over the years (and decades). I hope this holds true into the future.

Peace.

 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/21.jpg)

For my own games I'm very likely to dump the good alignment restriction (except maybe law, as chaotic people don't swear oaths and intend to keep them). But I'll likely have an oath or vow for a holy order or two. 

I'm a sucker for a good oath or creed.

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Novacat wrote:

I don't run alignments in my games, so no.

So paladins in your games are merely fighters with extra abilities?

I will do whatever the book says by RAW, but I favor just ignoring alignment all together I have always hated the system.  One of the best things about 4e was I just assumed everyone was unaligned and never even bothered to learn if it was different.

Remember this is a public forum where people express their opinions assume there is a “In my humble opinion” in front of every post especially mine.  

 

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Marandahir wrote:

For me, Paladins aren't necessarily tied to a divinity, but regardless, they do follow complex codes, which are worked out when the character is created.  Part of the reason I've found that people play Paladins is for that character arc, holding powerful beliefs about what is right and what is wrong, and trying to negotiate that in a world full of problems.  But I'm not going to mechanically punish the player for breaking alignment.  The story will do that enough: being an oathbreaker can have dire consequences (look at the Men of Dunharrow in Lord of the Rings, for example, cursed to wander the earth until they can finally fulfill their oath to Isildur's heir). 

And one of those dire consequences should be: break your oath, lose your special powers & become no better than the common fighter.....

CCS wrote:
Novacat wrote:

I don't run alignments in my games, so no.

So paladins in your games are merely fighters with extra abilities?

 

Or they just follow the tenets of their gods as codes.

CCS wrote:
Marandahir wrote:

For me, Paladins aren't necessarily tied to a divinity, but regardless, they do follow complex codes, which are worked out when the character is created.  Part of the reason I've found that people play Paladins is for that character arc, holding powerful beliefs about what is right and what is wrong, and trying to negotiate that in a world full of problems.  But I'm not going to mechanically punish the player for breaking alignment.  The story will do that enough: being an oathbreaker can have dire consequences (look at the Men of Dunharrow in Lord of the Rings, for example, cursed to wander the earth until they can finally fulfill their oath to Isildur's heir). 

And one of those dire consequences should be: break your oath, lose your special powers & become no better than the common fighter.....

is this trolling

First house rule I'll implement- no alignment restrictions on the Paladin.  Want to be a neutral paladin?  Cool. 

JC999 wrote:

 

CCS wrote:
Marandahir wrote:

For me, Paladins aren't necessarily tied to a divinity, but regardless, they do follow complex codes, which are worked out when the character is created.  Part of the reason I've found that people play Paladins is for that character arc, holding powerful beliefs about what is right and what is wrong, and trying to negotiate that in a world full of problems.  But I'm not going to mechanically punish the player for breaking alignment.  The story will do that enough: being an oathbreaker can have dire consequences (look at the Men of Dunharrow in Lord of the Rings, for example, cursed to wander the earth until they can finally fulfill their oath to Isildur's heir). 

And one of those dire consequences should be: break your oath, lose your special powers & become no better than the common fighter.....

is this trolling

 

My guess would be no.

CCS wrote:
Marandahir wrote:

For me, Paladins aren't necessarily tied to a divinity, but regardless, they do follow complex codes, which are worked out when the character is created.  Part of the reason I've found that people play Paladins is for that character arc, holding powerful beliefs about what is right and what is wrong, and trying to negotiate that in a world full of problems.  But I'm not going to mechanically punish the player for breaking alignment.  The story will do that enough: being an oathbreaker can have dire consequences (look at the Men of Dunharrow in Lord of the Rings, for example, cursed to wander the earth until they can finally fulfill their oath to Isildur's heir). 

And one of those dire consequences should be: break your oath, lose your special powers & become no better than the common fighter.....

 

While I wouldn't go that route, you're certainly welcome to do that at your table.

 

As a side note, I don't think it speaks well of the fighter if becoming one is a potential penalty for another class.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

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Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

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The_Jester wrote:

In your campaigns, will you restrict the alignment of paladins?

 

Or, if no alignment restriction, will they have codes of conduct or oaths that need to be followed? Or religious restrictions/taboos that need to be maintained?

 

I'll allow players of the paladin class to be of any alignment that is appropriate to the diety and oath that they are sworn to, and have codes of coduct based on those deities and oaths.

hunterian7 wrote:

First house rule I'll implement- no alignment restrictions on the Paladin.  Want to be a neutral paladin?  Cool. 

I doubt that will be a house rule. I expect the possibility of a Paladin with a “By any means necessary” tenet, or at least something similar.

I think we can all agree that if paladins don't maintain the same alignment as Batman, they should lose all their special powers, amirite?

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Also any barbarian who willingly acts lawful is stripped of their rage powers right?

iserith wrote:

I think we can all agree that if paladins don't maintain the same alignment as Batman, they should lose all their special powers, amirite?

Jean Paul Valley Batman seems about right.

iserith wrote:

I think we can all agree that if paladins don't maintain the same alignment as Batman, they should lose all their special powers, amirite?

I’m not even certain what Batman’s alignment would be, but the paladins are supposed to adhere to something, and would have some pretty drastic changes to their powers if they didn’t.

MechaPilot wrote:

 

As a side note, I don't think it speaks well of the fighter if becoming one is a potential penalty for another class.

 

lol'd

Clerics and paladins both should lose spell access if they go against the tenants of their faith, but my worlds are big places so I normaly just let my players make up their own faiths so not something I have to deal with often when your faith is something like a path of enlightenment without a diety or some force that binds the universe together it is hard to break your vows.

 

 

Remember this is a public forum where people express their opinions assume there is a “In my humble opinion” in front of every post especially mine.  

 

Things you should check out because they are cool, like bow-ties and fezzes.

https://app.roll20.net/home  Roll20 great free virtual table top so you can play with old friends who are far away.

http://donjon.bin.sh/  Donjon has random treasure, maps, pick pocket results, etc.. for every edition of D&D.

Orethalion wrote:

 

CVB wrote:

Yes.  Because Paladins have always been Lawful Good.

 

Now, will there be other Holy Champions that aren't LG?  Well, yes.  But they won't be called Paladins.

 

Blackguards, Champions or whatever, but Paladin is for any holy warrior archetype that is both good, and follows a code. 

 

 

Paladins of Tyranny, Slaughter and Freedom disagree with the first claim.

Those are not Paladins.  Those are Champions.  Which is just as lofty a title, and has all the responsibilities as a devotee of the God(s) of Tyranny, Slaughter and/or Freedom should have.

 

In MY games.  You can do whatever you want, and I won't argue about your choice at your table.

JC999 wrote:

Also any barbarian who willingly acts lawful is stripped of their rage powers right?

Yes. because a lawful person has discipline to control his/her rage.  And that discipline interferes with their ability to cut loose in the primal way that's necessary.

 

MechaPilot wrote:
As a side note, I don't think it speaks well of the fighter if becoming one is a potential penalty for another class.
No, but it's pretty accurate.

I prefer my players to decide upon their morals and how they act and THEN assign them an alignment. You get less pigeonholing and stereotypical characters that way.

 

As for codes of conduct. My campaign will have a lot of those actually.

 

Paladins

Paladins aren't dedicated to gods but instead swear holy oaths. A cleric does need to ordain them and the gods do fuel their power, but no specific deity claims dominion over them and they won't get their powers revoked. They are highly militarised and have a rigid hierarchical order. If a paladin were to behave in a manner that is unbecoming of their station word would quickly spread and the order would send paladins down to bring them to justice.

 

Knights

Knights (Fighters) swear oaths and fealty to a king. They're meant to follow a code of conduct as well, however they are less hierarchical. If a knight were to behave in a manner unbecoming of their station then any knights in the area would respond. But it wouldn't be as disciplined or structured as those chasing a paladin.

 

Swordsmen of Baravos

The swordsmen of Baravos are taught the intracacies of combat and swordplay, but also a code of conduct. Unlike knights and paladins they answer to no-one but their own conscience.

 

Priests

Holy priests (Acolyte background, clerics, holy monks) are expected to live their life in accordance with the teachings of their god. If they go against these strictures then there isn't any organised church to hunt them down, except for inquisitors (think of 4th edition avengers). Some churches (some say all) have secret wings who are charged with hunting down those priests who have strayed from the true path of their deity. They are charged by their god and exist outside of the normal hirearchy of the church. They have full authority to carry out the justice of their god.

 

---

My world setting is influenced heavily by 4th ed and the fact Dark Sun is the first campaign setting I was exposed to (before I played D&D).

CVB wrote:

 

Orethalion wrote:

 

CVB wrote:

Yes.  Because Paladins have always been Lawful Good.

 

Now, will there be other Holy Champions that aren't LG?  Well, yes.  But they won't be called Paladins.

 

Blackguards, Champions or whatever, but Paladin is for any holy warrior archetype that is both good, and follows a code. 

 

 

Paladins of Tyranny, Slaughter and Freedom disagree with the first claim.

 

Those are not Paladins.  Those are Champions.

 

Look again.  Their class name is PALADIN of Slaughter, etc.  Not champion.  Not only do those true paladins of other alignments exist, but in 4e there were actual paladins of other alignments in the PHB.  Your claim that paladins were always LG is untrue.  2e had CG paladins of Horus.  In no case were any of those paladins champions.  Unless you house ruled them to be, but if you did, that's irrelevant to this conversation since we're discussing RAW.

 

 

Orethalion wrote:
we're discussing RAW.

Actually, the topic of the thread is house rules, not RAW.

Standard Answer to all 5E rules questions: "Ask your DM."

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