Enduring Ideal Deck Thoughts Thread

aka the EIDTT

So, we're getting this bad boy back in prismatic (and some tutors to get it!)

How are you going to abuse it?

What's your lock going to be?

Are you going to go control->combo or just play for the fastest combo you can?

And a 'woot-woot!' for some broken fun!
MTGO SVCL - Ask me for help if you're lost or confused!
I would probably include something like the following as a minimum for an ideal deck. I'm not sure if I would go control or straight combo. We have some tutors but not many to find Ideal. Really it is just Diabolic Tutor and Demonic Collusion plus Lim-Dul's Vault


Combo and Kill

2x Dovescape
1-2x Zur's Weirding
2-3x Solitary Confinement (you occasionally have to blow it up with a deed and then want it back again)
1-3x Decree of Silence
1x Honden of Seeing Winds
2x Form of the Dragon
1x Sacred Mesa

General Utility
4x Wild Research (just seems useful in a deck with lots of enchants to fetch and there might be some cycling instants to play while under epic, I have to look into that)
4x Pernicious Deed
4x Collective Restraint (if I had 4, I only have 1)
4x Moat
1x Faith's Feathers
1x Confiscate
1x Mishen the Mindcage
1x Copy Enchantment (seems it could be useful)
Meishin, the mind cage ;)

What about Ice Cave? The Enduring copies aren't played, so they can't be countered, and you never have anything to do with your mana post-ideal.

Some manlands are always good, too, and so are Necromancy and its ilk.
What about Ice Cave? The Enduring copies aren't played, so they can't be countered, and you never have anything to do with your mana post-ideal.

I would guess that dovescape/decree of silence make ice cave pretty much irrelevant.

I imagine that Debtor's Knell might be better than Necromancy as far as after ideal has been played, but before Ideal it certainly is good and may be of slight value after. That said I don't ever see a situation in which I would want Debtor's Knell before any of the lock components, and Necromancy is useful with Wild Research.
Bumping this since I'm getting ready to work on it...

So, the package to lock down the opponent is listed above, but what do people think would work better for achieving victory with this deck?

Control, ala board sweepers, spot removal, delay cards?

Fast combo/tutors + fast mana/mana ramp?

Or some mixture thereof?

I'm slightly daunted by the amount of cards to balance for this type of deck. It doesn't have to be tournament worthy, just playable in casual.
MTGO SVCL - Ask me for help if you're lost or confused!
I have been building an ideal list, which I can share after the big tourney. It is on my short list of decks to play and also on my list of decks that I least want to play against.

On the fast combo vs control I went through the following thought process in my head, you may agree or disagree with my conclusions, but this was what I thought about:

Do I want to pull off the combo quickly?
Yes that would be nice to race aggro

What turn would that require?
Probably around turn 5 or turn 6 at the latest without any interaction with the aggro deck

If I am going to combo off by turn 5 what do I need?
1 - I need to have an Ideal in hand
a - How Do I get an Ideal?
Well I would need at least 3-5 different sets of tutors
b - What are the viable tutors (5cc or less)?
Diabolic Tutor
Demonic Collusion
Lilliana Vess
Long Term Plans (cannot shuffle after using until card in hand)
Lim Dul's Vault (potentially life intensive, but digs closer)
Tainted Pact (potential to fail, but digs deeper)

2 - I need WW5 available mana to cast Ideal, plus I would like to cast the tutor as early as possible.
a - Do I use rituals?
b - Do I use green acceleration?


This turned out to be the key to my decision. With rituals I am not able to tutor on an earlier turn without burning the rituals on the tutor and then risking not having the mana for the ideal. I decided that because of this I would use green acceleration. There is the potential to do both, but I also wanted my deck to be able to interact pre-Ideal with both aggro and control and this required card slots, so I did not have room for both. If I am using green acceleration is a strict combo build better or worse than a control build?

My logic was that I could build a more robust and durable deck using the green acceleration and that this type of deck would best support a controlling deck that had some alternate means of victory based on the fact that I was able to accelerate into a high amount of permanent mana sources.

Alternate victory paths could include:
Panglacial Wurm (not good with a moat out, but it is mainly an out vs control and I do not plan on casting a moat if I want to win with wurm)
Rude Awakening (not good with a moat out)
Decree of Justice (not that reliable)
etc.

There may be more but my preference is panglacial and rude.


Anyways that was my logic which came to the conclusion that I prefer a control build even though that was not what I initially set out to build.
Long story short, that's nearly identical to what I've done for my list...

My average seems to be turn 7 (between raw-dogging into the card or tutoring into it...)

Interesting.
MTGO SVCL - Ask me for help if you're lost or confused!
Here's hoping I don't end up facing either of you then in the tourney.

1 card combo is good ;)
OK Platipus; tourney is over. Lets see your list for enduring ideal.dec and traumatize.dec!

I think my threshold/madness deck isn't going anywhere; turns out a 4/4 for 3 (arrogant wurm) isn't that good anymore. Of course roar of the wurm is still awesome, so quiet speculation seems good. I think that small engine (quiet speculation + a few flashback cards) would fit well in to a traumatize deck?
Well a 4/4 for 3cc is not that good when you can already get a 5/5, 5/4, 3/4 flier or 4/3 flier for 3cc without needing a discard outlet.

I do run Ancient Grudge and Ray of Revelation in Traumatize.dek already. I don't think I want to squeeze any more flashback though to make QS worth it. I already run a wizard toolbox for the wizard cycler guy, which is meant to fetch trinket mage and cephalid illusionist.

I will post them once I am back from Christmas. I decided not to bring my laptop on vacation and don't have the lists written anywhere else. I may post them and then edit it once I can back check. Traumatize.dek is proving to be fairly robust with the unbanning of Worldly Tutor.