Question: About Permanency

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When you die... do the permanent effects you have active dispel, and r=need to be redone when you are brought back to life?

Also...

Will Pernamancy make elligable psionic powers permanent? And vice versa with it's psionic counterpart?
When you die, you become an object, so I would suppose that any spells on you that cannot be cast on an object would end.

I think that if you use the psionic/magic transparency rule, then permanency would work both ways. But I'm not sure.
I thought it has been ruled that spells only check validity when cast? I think there was an example of a Humanoid character who is the victim of Hold Person and is later Polymorphed into a different creature type. That did not end the Hold Person effect. If type validity is only checked at the time of casting, then the dead creature, who is now an object, would still have any spells active.
I thought it has been ruled that spells only check validity when cast? I think there was an example of a Humanoid character who is the victim of Hold Person and is later Polymorphed into a different creature type. That did not end the Hold Person effect. If type validity is only checked at the time of casting, then the dead creature, who is now an object, would still have any spells active.

I've seen that argued, but nothing official. (Though I may have just missed it.) All I can say about it though is that it makes "polymorph plus animal growth plus dismiss polymorph" a righteous combo to cast on the party barbarian.

But I agree, if target limitations only matter at the time of casting, then dying shouldn't do anything to your spells.
Thanks for the reply guys.

Doing some digging, I did find another thread talking about spell effects ending when you die, or do they continue on afterwards till their duration expires.

As a permanent spell has no effective duration, I guess it could be summarized that it would continue.

Other thoughts on this would be appreciated also.
A permanent spell does have an effective duration - it has a duration of "permanent." This means that there is always magic there to dispel (as distinct form a duration of "instantaneous.")

When you die, you don't become an object - you leave one behind. You go to wherever dead creatures go, but your body becomes an object. It's really up to the DM whether spells that affect the creature that you were while alive continue to affect you after death (ie they're tied to the soul and/or mind) or they end because they were cast on the you that occupied the body, and when your body and soul separated that "broke" all the spells running on you.

As for the question on psionics - I don't use them. If I did, the answer to your question would depend on whether I decided that Psionics Are Different or not. If they were different, Permanency wouldn't work on psionic powers and vice versa; if they were the same then I'd allow Permanency to work on psionic powers that are equivalents to the spells Permanency works on.

So in both cases, it boils down to DM call.
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When you die, you don't become an object - you leave one behind. You go to wherever dead creatures go, but your body becomes an object. It's really up to the DM whether spells that affect the creature that you were while alive continue to affect you after death (ie they're tied to the soul and/or mind) or they end because they were cast on the you that occupied the body, and when your body and soul separated that "broke" all the spells running on you.

That is an interesting point too. It leads to similar questions about effects like trap the soul...
In my game, I rule that spells continue on until their natural and normal duration ends, even with the death of the target. The same goes for permanent spells.

However, I make a distinction between spells on the body and spells on the soul. Spells on the soul (e.g., geas / quest / detect thoughts / fox's cunning) *stay with the soul* while spells on the body (e.g., bull's strength / polymorph / enlarge person / invisibility) stay with the body.

The distinction is important for determining what happens if the deceased is brought back to life.

  • Raise dead will have both mental and physical spells stay in effect after the return. Same soul, same body, same spells.
  • Resurrection will also have both mental and physical spells stay in effect after the return. Same soul, same body, same spells.
  • Reincarnation will only have the mental spells stay in effect after the return. Same soul, different body, mental spells only.
  • True resurrection depends on whether the caster is using the original body. If so, treat as raise dead; if not, treat as reincarnation.

Death will not absolve you from a geas in my game. :D
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
I've seen that argued, but nothing official. (Though I may have just missed it.)

From the 3.5 FAQ (if desired):
"A spell only checks to see if you are a legal target
when it is cast. If you become an illegal target later (such as via
the polymorph spell), the spell remains in effect."
In my game, I rule that spells continue on until their natural and normal duration ends, even with the death of the target. The same goes for permanent spells.

However, I make a distinction between spells on the body and spells on the soul. Spells on the soul (e.g., geas / quest / detect thoughts / fox's cunning) *stay with the soul* while spells on the body (e.g., bull's strength / polymorph / enlarge person / invisibility) stay with the body.

The distinction is important for determining what happens if the deceased is brought back to life.

  • Raise dead will have both mental and physical spells stay in effect after the return. Same soul, same body, same spells.
  • Resurrection will also have both mental and physical spells stay in effect after the return. Same soul, same body, same spells.
  • Reincarnation will only have the mental spells stay in effect after the return. Same soul, different body, mental spells only.
  • True resurrection depends on whether the caster is using the original body. If so, treat as raise dead; if not, treat as reincarnation.

Death will not absolve you from a geas in my game. :D

Very poetic in it's execution. Definitely something to keep in mind.

Many thanks for the responses guys/gals. :D
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