Minor Creation and You, a Small Guide

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Minor creation and its counterparts are one of the most single useful powers in dnd, given a choice i would be hard pressed to decide between astral construct and minor creation, its that awesome.

However minor creation as presented has little data to support uses for most creative players. So rather than go through the effort of calculating all the numbers each time i use it, i've decided to compile many of the charts into one location.

the First block of data is what is presented for minor creation, Volume and its size as a cube.
Base Data Block
[indent]
C1 C2 C3 C4 C5 C6 C7<br /> Level Volume Length Inches Inch^2 Feet ^2 10 Foot Wall Length<br /> 1 1 1.00 12.00 41.57 3.46 1.20<br /> 2 2 1.25 15.00 58.79 4.90 2.40<br /> 3 3 1.44 17.28 72.00 6.00 3.60<br /> 4 4 1.58 18.96 83.14 6.93 4.80<br /> 5 5 1.70 20.40 92.95 7.75 [b]6.00[/b]<br /> 6 6 1.81 21.72 101.82 8.49 7.20<br /> 7 7 1.91 22.92 109.98 9.17 8.40<br /> 8 8 2.00 24.00 117.58 9.80 9.60<br /> 9 9 2.08 24.96 124.71 10.39 [b]10.80[/b]<br /> 10 10 2.15 25.80 131.45 10.95 12.00<br /> 11 11 2.22 26.64 137.87 11.49 13.20<br /> 12 12 2.28 27.36 144.00 12.00 14.40<br /> 13 13 2.35 28.20 149.88 12.49 [b]15.60[/b]<br /> 14 14 2.41 28.92 155.54 12.96 16.80<br /> 15 15 2.46 29.52 161.00 13.42 18.00<br /> 16 16 2.51 30.12 166.28 13.86 19.20<br /> 17 17 2.57 30.84 171.39 14.28 [b]20.40[/b]<br /> 18 18 2.62 31.44 176.36 14.70 21.60<br /> 19 19 2.66 31.92 181.20 15.10 22.80<br /> 20 20 2.71 32.52 185.90 15.49 24.00

[/indent]


Column legend
  • Manifester Level
  • Volume of Created Matter
  • Length of each side in a cube in feet
  • length of the same cube in inches
  • Side Length (L or W) of a one inch thick panel in inches
  • Same panel in Feet
  • Length of a 10 foot tall wall one inch thick (as usual half the width to double the thickness)



Thats just the basic Power.
Liquids block
[indent]
Volume Pounds Gallons Quarts Pints Ounces<br /> 1 62 7.40 29 59 947<br /> 2 124 14.80 59 118 1,894<br /> 3 186 22.20 88 177 2,841<br /> 4 248 29.60 118 236 3,788<br /> 5 310 37.00 148 296 4,736<br /> 6 372 44.40 177 355 5,683<br /> 7 434 51.80 207 414 6,630<br /> 8 496 59.20 236 473 7,577<br /> 9 558 66.60 266 532 8,524<br /> 10 620 74.00 296 592 9,472<br /> 11 682 81.40 325 651 10,419<br /> 12 744 88.80 355 710 11,366<br /> 13 806 96.20 384 769 12,313<br /> 14 868 103.60 414 828 13,260<br /> 15 930 111.00 444 888 14,208<br /> 16 992 118.40 473 947 15,155<br /> 17 1054 125.80 503 1,006 16,102<br /> 18 1116 133.20 532 1,065 17,049<br /> 19 1178 140.60 562 1,124 17,996<br /> 20 1240 148.00 592 1,184 18,944

[/indent]


This chart is based off of water. To keep things simple water is assumed to weigh 62 pounds per cubic feet, also there are 7.4 gallons in the cubic foot (rather than 7.44~~~~blah blah blah).

So say at level 5 we want to make some poison, unless the specific gravity of the poison is significantly greater or lesser than water. One can simply take the value from the ounces table and thats how many doses. Plese not that because of rounding the numbers are roughly 5% off but in most cases you don't need that level of accuracy.

Once we have this base table it becomes easy to calculate other units. All one needs to do is take the specific gravity value of a material and multiply the pounds value on the table by the specific gravity value.

So
Specific gravity of various woods
[indent]
Apple .66-.83<br /> Ash, black 0.54<br /> Ash, white 0.67<br /> Aspen 0.42<br /> Balsa 0.17<br /> Bamboo .30-.40<br /> Birch (British) 0.67<br /> Cedar, red 0.38<br /> Cypress 0.51<br /> Douglas Fir 0.53<br /> Ebony .96-1.12<br /> Elm ( English ) 0.6<br /> Elm ( Wych ) 0.69<br /> Elm ( Rock ) 0.815<br /> Larch 0.59<br /> Mahogany ( Honduras ) 0.545<br /> Mahogany ( African ) .495-.850<br /> Maple 0.755<br /> Oak .590-.930<br /> Pine ( Oregon ) 0.53<br /> Pine ( Parana ) 0.56<br /> Pine ( Canadian ) .350-.560<br /> Pine ( Red ) .370-.660<br /> Redwood ( American ) 0.45<br /> Redwood ( European ) 0.51<br /> Spruce ( Canadian ) 0.45<br /> Spruce ( Sitka ) 0.45<br /> Sycamore 0.59<br /> Teak .63-.72<br /> Willow 0.42

[/indent]


These are some common wood types
Common organic materials
[indent]
Alfalfa, ground .256<br /> Apples .641<br /> Bark, wood refuse .240<br /> Barley .609<br /> Beans, castor .577<br /> Beans, cocoa .593<br /> Beans, navy .801<br /> Beans, soy .721<br /> Beets .721<br /> Bran .256<br /> Brewers grain .432<br /> Buckwheat .657<br /> Cardboard .689<br /> Chocolate, powder .641<br /> Clover seed .769<br /> Coconut, meal .513<br /> Coconut, shredded .352<br /> Coffee, fresh beans .561<br /> Coffee, roast beans .432<br /> Copra, medium size .529<br /> Copra, meal, ground .641<br /> Copra, expeller cake ground .513<br /> Copra, expeller cake chopped .465<br /> Cork, solid .240<br /> Cork, ground .160<br /> Corn, on the cob .721<br /> Corn, shelled .721<br /> Corn, grits .673<br /> Cottonseed, dry, de-linted .561<br /> Cottonseed, dry, not de-linted .320<br /> Cottonseed, cake, lumpy .673<br /> Cottonseed, hulls .192<br /> Cottonseed, meal .593<br /> Cottonseed, meats .641<br /> Cottonwood .416<br /> Flaxseed, whole .721<br /> Flour, wheat .593<br /> Glue, vegetable, powdered .641<br /> Gluten, meal .625<br /> Grain - Maize .760<br /> Grain - Barley .600<br /> Grain - Millet .760-.800<br /> Grain - Wheat .780-.800<br /> Linseed, whole .753<br /> Linseed, meal .513<br /> Malt .336<br /> Oats .432<br /> Oats, rolled .304<br /> Oil cake .785<br /> Oil, linseed .942<br /> Paper, standard 1.201<br /> Peanuts, shelled .641<br /> Peanuts, not shelled .272<br /> Peat, dry .400<br /> Peat, moist .801<br /> Peat, wet 1.121<br /> Pecan wood .753<br /> Rice, hulled .753<br /> Rice, rough .577<br /> Rice grits .689<br /> Rosin 1.073<br /> Rubber, caoutchouc .945<br /> Rubber, manufactured 1.522<br /> Rubber, ground scrap .481<br /> Rye .705<br /> Sawdust .210<br /> Soy beans, whole .753<br /> Starch, powdered .561<br /> Sugar, brown .721<br /> Sugar, powdered .801<br /> Sugar, granulated .849<br /> Sugar, raw cane .961<br /> Sugarbeet pulp, dry .208<br /> Sugarbeet pulp, wet .561<br /> Sugarcane .272<br /> Tobacco .320<br /> Turpentine .865<br /> Walnut, black, dry .609<br /> Wheat .769<br /> Wheat, cracked .673

Copra is the meat of a coconut
Turpentine is distilled pine resin (so a plant product)
Rosin is remaint after the turpentine is produced from heated resin and is highly flamable. More common uses involve powder forms used to increase friction. (personally i would say its worth a small bonus in climb checks or when you need a better grip)
[/indent]

The uses of most of the materials is obvious. Rosin is something i use in place of candles. As beeswax is an animal product. More common uses is to blend it with alchohol (it disolves in it) to produce as sticky firestarter. (think weak alchemist fire we)

Aloe Vera is another good plant product. (no real mechanical effect other than we use it as parts of healing kits

Check Here for more plant products

Sphere Diameters, Based on Shell Volume
[indent]
CL Radius Shell V Diameter R Feet D Feet Open Vol Amount<br /> 1 12 1 24 1.0 2.0 4.1 30.34<br /> 2 17 2 34 1.4 2.8 11.9 88.06<br /> 3 20 3 40 1.7 3.3 19.3 142.82<br /> 4 23 4 46 1.9 3.8 29.4 217.56<br /> 5 26 5 52 2.2 4.3 42.6 315.24<br /> 6 29 6 58 2.4 4.8 59.1 437.34<br /> 7 31 7 62 2.6 5.2 72.2 534.28<br /> 8 33 8 66 2.8 5.5 87.1 644.54<br /> 9 35 9 70 2.9 5.8 103.9 768.86<br /> 10 37 10 74 3.1 6.2 122.7 907.98<br /> 11 39 11 78 3.3 6.5 143.7 1063.38<br /> 12 41 12 82 3.4 6.8 167 1235.8<br /> 13 42 13 84 3.5 7.0 179.5 1328.3<br /> 14 44 14 88 3.7 7.3 206.4 1527.36<br /> 15 45 15 90 3.8 7.5 220.8 1633.92<br /> 16 47 16 94 3.9 7.8 251.6 1861.84<br /> 17 48 17 96 4.0 8.0 268 1983.2<br /> 18 50 18 100 4.2 8.3 303 2242.2<br /> 19 51 19 102 4.3 8.5 321.5 2379.1<br /> 20 52 20 104 4.3 8.7 340.8 2521.92

[/indent]

This chart is the maximum size of a one inch thick sphere with the listed internal radius. By caster level 10 (and before) you can can encase someone with say a wooden sphere or something else. Although not needed i restated the gallon volume of the sphere in the last collum.

Spheres/Hemispheres Based off of Internal Volume
CL V(i) R(i) R(s) V(s) ~Cl<br /> 1 1728 7.44 8.44 794.1200 0.46<br /> 2 3456 9.38 10.38 1,227.49 0.71<br /> 3 5184 10.74 11.74 1,587.64 0.92<br /> 4 6912 11.82 12.82 1,907.45 1.10<br /> 5 8640 12.73 13.73 2,200.38 1.27<br /> 6 10368 13.53 14.53 2,473.57 1.43<br /> 7 12096 14.24 15.24 2,731.41 1.58<br /> 8 13824 14.89 15.89 2,976.80 1.72<br /> 9 15552 15.48 16.48 3,211.84 1.86<br /> 10 17280 16.04 17.04 3,438.04 1.99<br /> 11 19008 16.56 17.56 3,656.59 2.12<br /> 12 20736 17.04 18.04 3,868.42 2.24<br /> 13 22464 17.50 18.50 4,074.28 2.36<br /> 17 29376 19.14 20.14 4,848.84 2.81<br /> 18 31104 19.51 20.51 5,032.29 2.91<br /> 19 32832 19.86 20.86 5,212.29 3.02<br /> 20 34560 20.21 21.21 5,389.09 3.12

This Data set below this text is a hemisphere with the listed Volume
CL V(i) R(i) R(s) V(s) ~Cl<br /> 1 1728 9.38 10.38 613.7400 0.36<br /> 2 3456 11.82 12.82 953.7300 0.55<br /> 3 5184 13.53 14.53 1,236.79 0.72<br /> 4 6912 14.89 15.89 1,488.40 0.86<br /> 5 8640 16.04 17.04 1,719.02 0.99<br /> 6 10368 17.04 18.04 1,934.21 1.12<br /> 7 12096 17.94 18.94 2,137.39 1.24<br /> 8 13824 18.76 19.76 2,330.83 1.35<br /> 9 15552 19.51 20.51 2,516.15 1.46<br /> 10 17280 20.21 21.21 2,694.54 1.56<br /> 11 19008 20.86 21.86 2,866.94 1.66<br /> 12 20736 21.47 22.47 3,034.07 1.76<br /> 13 22464 22.05 23.05 3,196.51 1.85<br /> 17 29376 24.12 25.12 3,807.91 2.20<br /> 18 31104 24.58 25.58 3,952.76 2.29<br /> 19 32832 25.03 26.03 4,094.90 2.37<br /> 20 34560 25.46 26.46 4,234.51 2.45

Legend
CL=CasterLevel
V(i)=Internal Volume (how much it can hold)
R(i)=Internal Radius (open air radius)
R(s)=Outer Radius of the Shell (Shells are one inch thick)
V(s)=The total Volume of the Shell
~Cl=This is the casterlevel needed to spontaneously produce the shell, If we were using link power or call item we would need the listed caster level to produce the bowl/sphere then fill it the next round with a substance
[center][Largest Possible Hemisphere by Shell Volume][/center]<br /> <br /> CL V(i) R(i) R(s) V(s) ~Cl<br /> 485 838080 73.69 74.69 34,584.22 20.01<br /> <br /> [center][Largest Possible Sphere by Shell Volume][/center]<br /> <br /> CL V(i) R(i) R(s) V(s) ~Cl<br /> 340 587520 51.96 52.96 34,580.49 20.01<br /> For Reference.


Aside from the uses of wooden spheres, (if only for amusement) the spheres were for sieges
Siege weapons

[indent]
Siege Weap Weight Volume Radius Inches Pints AoE<br /> Mangonel, Heavy 75 1.210 0.199 2.387 126.000 31<br /> Mangonel, Light 40 0.645 0.088 1.054 55.000 20<br /> Scorpion 75 1.210 0.199 2.387 126.000 31<br /> Trebuchet, Heavy 150 2.419 0.490 5.879 311.000 49<br /> Trebuchet, Light 100 1.613 0.289 3.470 183.000 38

[/indent]You can pour a pint of oil on the ground to cover an area 5 feet square, provided that the surface is smooth. If lit, the oil burns for 2 rounds and deals 1d3 points of fire damage to each creature in the area.

AoE section is calculated as the area idealy covered by the amount of oil/flamable liquid in each sphere. Although the idea never saw use its always good to have siege stats on hand. As a bonus the sphere itself is wooden and can be lit on fire pre launch to help ensure ignition.



Tubes and Troughs
A1 A2 A3 A4<br /> 1 6 1.63 3.26<br /> 2 6 7.63 15.26<br /> 3 6 4.91 9.82<br /> 4 6 6.54 13.08<br /> 5 6 8.18 16.36<br /> 6 6 9.82 19.64<br /> 7 6 11.45 22.90<br /> 8 6 13.09 26.18<br /> 9 6 14.73 29.46<br /> 10 6 16.37 32.74<br /> 11 6 18.00 36.00<br /> 12 6 19.64 39.28<br /> 13 6 21.28 42.56<br /> 14 6 22.91 45.82<br /> 15 6 24.55 49.10<br /> 16 6 26.19 52.38<br /> 17 6 27.82 55.64<br /> 18 6 29.46 58.92<br /> 19 6 31.10 62.20<br /> 20 6 32.74 65.48

B1 B2 B3 B4<br /> 1 15 0.71 1.42<br /> 2 15 7.63 15.26<br /> 3 15 2.14 4.28<br /> 4 15 2.86 5.72<br /> 5 15 3.58 7.16<br /> 6 15 4.29 8.58<br /> 7 15 5.01 10.02<br /> 8 15 5.72 11.44<br /> 9 15 6.44 12.88<br /> 10 15 7.16 14.32<br /> 11 15 7.87 15.74<br /> 12 15 8.59 17.18<br /> 13 15 9.31 18.62<br /> 14 15 10.02 20.04<br /> 15 15 10.74 21.48<br /> 16 15 11.45 22.90<br /> 17 15 12.17 24.34<br /> 18 15 12.89 25.78<br /> 19 15 13.60 27.20<br /> 20 15 14.32 28.64

C1 C2 C3 C4<br /> 1 30 0.36 0.72<br /> 2 30 7.63 15.26<br /> 3 30 1.10 2.20<br /> 4 30 1.47 2.94<br /> 5 30 1.84 3.68<br /> 6 30 2.21 4.42<br /> 7 30 2.58 5.16<br /> 8 30 2.95 5.90<br /> 9 30 3.32 6.64<br /> 10 30 3.69 7.38<br /> 11 30 4.06 8.12<br /> 12 30 4.43 8.86<br /> 13 30 4.80 9.60<br /> 14 30 5.17 10.34<br /> 15 30 5.54 11.08<br /> 16 30 5.91 11.82<br /> 17 30 6.28 12.56<br /> 18 30 6.65 13.30<br /> 19 30 7.02 14.04<br /> 20 30 7.39 14.78



Legend
  • This tube or Trough is 1 foot in diameter, 5 per square
  • This Tube or Trough is 2.5 Feet in Diameter, 2 per square
  • This Tube or Trough is 5 Feet in diameter, 1 per square
  • This Column is the caster level
  • This Column is the radius of the tube in inches
  • This Column Is the length as a trough (half a tube)
As a point, the average width of the human hip is greater than 10 but less than 20 inches so you could create tubes to slide down with little effort. The main problem is time. Currently i'm looking at using Link power and using Call item as the initial power, and Minor Creation as the linked power.
*Reserved for both other posters ideas and for minerals (major creation) as well as possible knowledge Dc's for odd chemicals.

Alchemical Substances.
More Substances[indent] what i propose is that we limit our discussions to substances discovered by alchemists.

One possible Dc set is a Knowledge Nature check Dc 10 for alchemical substances that are found in nature (ores and such) A Dc 15 Alchemy Check to produce items that are one step extractions (soak seaweed for iodine) Multiple step chemicals are a dc25 an only if the items can be produced with basic tools (Heating with flame, Cooling to distill, and such) anything a classic beaker/ coal fire and water cooling system can make. No electrical processes or anything beyond say 1500's at the latest.[/indent]
This second post is going to be rambly as I research alchemy in my spare time for this

One interesting thing I’ve already turned up is that gunpowder as produced in the ancient times did not explode, rather it was an incendiary. Gunpowder with sufficient power for what we consider a proper explosion required a process known as corning(1429). Actual exploding gunpowder appears to have been developed around 1240 or so.

One possible interpretation of Smokepowder in dnd is that gunpowder hasn't been discovered as gnomes and inventors are working with Gold hydrazine or some other exotic explosive. After all nothing says that science progresses the same everywhere. While in our world we discovered gunpowder early and Fulminating gold and silver late (1600's) there is not reason that in another they discovered these substances the other way around, and without any sort of science they just muddle through trying to improve what they have.

Resin

[indent]Resin is a hydrocarbon secretion of many plants, particularly coniferous trees, valued for its chemical constituents and uses such as varnishes, adhesives, as an important source of raw materials for organic synthesis, or for incense and perfume. Fossilized resins are the source of amber.
Products
  • Amber[indent]of course as a gem amber can simply be sold off. Other than that amber as amber is only good as a static generator[/indent]
  • Turpentine[indent]Fractionally distilled from Resin. This is a highly effective lice treatment, cleaning agent, and of course burns.[/indent]
  • N~Heptane[indent]Flammable, doesn't dissolve in water[/indent]
  • Copal[indent]Its an incense and a cheap amber substitute for jewels[/indent]
  • Dammar[indent]used in foods to preserve them longer[/indent]
  • Sandarac[indent]more incense[/indent]
  • Frankincense[indent]More incense, often used in religious ceremonies[/indent]
  • Rosin, formerly called colophony or Greek pitch[indent]After heating the resin to get the more volatile compounds out you get a Semitransparent cake like substance. Very flammable it burns with a Smokey flame, and works as a pitching agent to stop leaks in casks.[/indent]
[/indent]

Poppy (Papaver somniferum or Opium Poppy)

[indent]The opium poppy, Papaver somniferum, is the type of poppy from which opium and all refined opiates such as morphine (up to 20%), thebaine (5%), codeine (1%), papaverine (1%), and narcotine (5-8%) are naturally present and extracted from the poppy.[indent]
  • Opium:[indent]Dried, the brownish Raw Opium is heated and the gasses inhaled. a pea sized Dollop is sufficient for about an hour If we assign a "pea sized dose" to 1/8th x 1/8th x 1/8th of an inch that’s 884,736 Doses per Cubic Foot.[/indent]
  • Morphine[1804][indent]Orally, it comes as an elixir, concentrated solution, powder (for compounding) or in tablet form. Taken orally (as we will assume in dnd) is 1/6th - 1/3 as strong as other methods.
    A small dose provides relaxation and slight euphioria [-1 init?],
    a medium dose relieves pain[+2 to con based checks?],
    larger dose puts one to sleep[Fort [sleep 1 min/sleep 1 hour]?],
    and an even larger dose kills [Con Damage?[1d10/1d10]?][/indent]
  • Thebaine[indent]A Stimulant, rather than a depressant (like morphine) used in production of other chemicals, naturally occurring[/indent]
  • Codeine[indent]Slight addiction, Moderate to severe pain relief, Slight depressive (drowsiness), kills sex drive.... Kobolds on Codeine![/indent]
  • papacerine[indent]Basically this drug is used to treat muscle spasms[/indent]
  • Narcotine[indent]Reduces spasms in involuntary muscle systems (aka Coughing) [give it to that horse that keeps giving you away][/indent]
  • Laudanum[indent]A Tincture of Opium, Basically Raw opium mixed with alcohol and sugar, same effects as opium with a slightly diluted virtue[/indent]
[/indent][/indent]

Deadly nightshade, Belladonna

[indent]Deadly nightshade or belladonna (Atropa belladonna) is a well-known perennial shrub, with leaves and berries that are highly toxic. It is in the nightshade family (Solanaceae), Children have been poisoned by eating as few as three berries. Ingestion of a leaf of the Belladonna can be fatal to an adult. The root of the plant is generally the most toxic part, though this can vary from one specimen to another.[/indent][indent] Belladonna is an entirely poisonous plant, for the purposes of dnd it is safe to assume that the plant is dried, ground and then seeped to produce a liquid form of belladonna. The main active ingredient of Belladonna is Atropine.[/indent][indent]Atropine
  • Ophthalmic[indent]Used topically a single drop of Diluted Belladonna causes the pupil to dilate, this lasts for 2-3 days and often results in blurred visions.[/indent]
  • Other than that Belladonna is a poison and works to suppress the parasympathetic nerve system.
[/indent][indent]
DC 13 Fortitude save or take 1d6 points of Strength damage. One minute later, the character must succeed on a second DC 13 save or take an additional 2d6 points of Strength damage.

[/indent]

[INDENT]Belladonna Ingested, Fort 13 [1d6 Str]/[2d6 Str][/INDENT]

Calabar bean

[INDENT]The Calabar bean is the seed of a leguminous plant. Highly poisonous the been has few beneficial uses. It contracts the pupil (possibly acting as a counter to light sensitivity) in small topical doses to the eye, however its main importance (for our purposes) is that it is a counter to Belladonna, Equivalent doses cancel each other out, however according to the 1911 encyclopedia Britannica, in 1/4 cases the two drugs combine to hasten death. Understand however that this is something that could be considered extremely high level alchemy, Knowledge of the ability of one deadly poison to counteract another is not something that would be widely known.

Calabar Ingested, Fort 13 [1d6 Str]/[2d6 Str], (heals strength damage dealt by Belladonna, then deals remainder of damage) ? Something like this? [/INDENT]

Nepeta, Catnip

[indent]Nepeta cataria (Catnip, True Catnip, Catmint or Field Balm) is a 50–100 cm tall herb resembling mint in appearance, with greyish-green leaves; the flowers are white, finely spotted with purple. Although there are many species of "catnip" the species of interest is the cataria species.[/indent][indent]
  • Feline Crack[indent]Its most famous property, Catnip affects roughly 2/3 cats, for a few minutes after first comming into contact the cats full attention is on the catnip, in which it plays with it, rolls in it and generally focuses its attention on it. After words the cat needs up to two hours before it will be affected again. Larger cats are more sensitive than smaller cats.[/indent]
  • Oil of cataria[indent]When the plant is rendered into an oil the lions share of the chemicals is the substance Nepetalactone, Its basic properties are as follows.
    In humans, the compound has a number of very mild effects; it is a weak sedative, antispasmodic, febrifuge and antibacterial. In high doses it also has an emetic effect.

    It also has an effect on some insects, repelling the cockroach and mosquito, poisonous to some common flies, but a sex pheromone to aphids.[/indent]
[/indent]


[INDENT][CENTER]The Following are an attempt to catalog the Herbs and plants presented in the Arms and Equipment Guide[/INDENT]

[indent][indent][indent]I Should mention that half or more of this information is from Wikipedia, i['m just consolidating it here and suggesting possible uses for them as i see them, Some of its quite obvious such as the different pain killers counteracting some of the penalties induced by effects that are "pain" based, or used to counter effects that keep you awake by putting you in a deep deep sleep, such as countering nightmare for a time.[/indent][/indent][/indent]


Anise[/CENTER][indent]Anise; Anise is one of the herbs presented in the Arms and Equipment guide, while we aren't certain is all herbs or what herbs are present in dnd, we are certain of the herbs listed in the Arms and equipment guide as being "in the game"[indent]Anise has the following uses
  • Culinary
  • Medicinal
    • Digestive Aid
    • Toothache relief
    • As an oil, to treat lice and Scabies
  • Other possible uses
    • Anise is Known to attract fish
    • It is used to Flavor many alcohols
    • In some breeds of dog has the same effect as catnip, while cats are also attracted to Anise oils, though not as much as catnip
[/indent][/indent]

Monarda didyma

[indent]Bergamot Herb: Monarda didyma (Bergamot, Scarlet Beebalm, Scarlet Monarda, Oswego Tea, or Crimson Beebalm) is an aromatic herb in the family Lamiaceae, native to eastern North America from Maine west to Ohio and south to northern Georgia. Its name is derived from its odor which is considered similar to that of the bergamot orange. The scientific name comes from Nicolas Monardes, who described the first American flora in 1569.[/indent][indent]This plant has no known uses other than as a flavoring or scenting ingredient, however since it was a little difficult to find the herb i thought i'd include it here for fun.[/indent]

Caraway

[indent]Caraway[/b]: Persian cumin (Carum carvi) is a biennial plant in the family Apiaceae, native to Europe and western Asia. The plant is similar in appearance to a carrot plant, with finely divided, feathery leaves with thread-like divisions, growing on 20–30 cm stems. The main flower stem is 40–60 cm tall, with small white or pink flowers in umbels. Caraway fruits, (erroneously called seeds) are crescent-shaped achenes, around 2 mm long, with five pale ridges. [/indent][indent]This plant is used to expel internal worms when brewed and drunk as a tea. Although this doesn’t have an in game effect its something that a dm might use for those rare monsters that are parasitic (the Gutworm FF) for one.[/indent]
Great job ! this can certianly help out a lot for playing Shapers. Gotta print some of those tables to bring to a game
Very nice job. And very nice research. Using minor creation to create wooden spheres to hold liquids for siege engines is awesome.
This chart is based off of water. To keep things
simple water is assumed to weigh 62 pounds per cubic feet, also there are 7.4 gallons in the cubic foot

I think that's off by quite a bit. Should be 1.* gallons in a cubic foot or water.

-RSR
Black Lotus Extract at low, low level
This chart is based off of water. To keep things

I think that's off by quite a bit. Should be 1.* gallons in a cubic foot or water.

-RSR

????

basic chemistry here
  • water's properties:
    • Weight: 62.416 pounds per cubic foot at 32°F
    • Weight: 61.998 pounds per cubic foot at 100°F
    • Weight: 8.33 pounds/gallon, 0.036 pounds/cubic inch
    • Density: 1 gram per cubic centimeter (cc) at 39.2°F, 0.95865 gram per cc at 212°F


water is the foundational unit of comparison for most materials so its best for a starting point (specific gravity is key)

As for black lotus, remember craft checks Dc 35 is a little diffcult to reach at level 1
gnomish shaper
+2 racial
+2 artisans tools
+4 max ranks
+4 18 int
+3 skill focus feat

+15 total
taking 20 gives you the time you need if you can take 20 on that check
35 total

Duration of power is 1hr/lvl and 20 rounds is 2 minutes, you have 58 minutes to do whatever you are going to do.
First, amazing guide. I'll be using it when designing some new tricks with this power myself.



GoodDragon1: You don't create the raw materials, you create the substance itself. Reread Minor Creation: To take 20 on manifesting it, you'd have to manifest it 20 times, which a first-level character cannot do. (Oh, and the gnome's bonus is on Craft(ALCHEMY) checks, not the required Craft(Poisonmaking).



  • water's properties:
    • Weight: 62.416 pounds per cubic foot at 32°F
    • Weight: 61.998 pounds per cubic foot at 100°F
    • Weight: 8.33 pounds/gallon, 0.036 pounds/cubic inch
    • Density: 1 gram per cubic centimeter (cc) at 39.2°F, 0.95865 gram per cc at 212°F


water is the foundational unit of comparison for most materials so its best for a starting point (specific gravity is key)

Ah, the Imperial system. I like seeing things like this just so I can remind myself how byzantine it is. I mean, weight as a fundamental dimension, rather than mass? And how were some unit conversion ratios decided, by hucking darts? :p

(Of course, since D&D uses Imperial, someone's gotta deal with it... or just replace the whole thing with SI.)

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

3.5: Definitive Shopping List (gear guide PDF)

 

5e Eberron homebrew rules (PDF) (Artificer, Warforged, Changeling, Kalashtar, Shifter, Dragonmarks) | Discussion thread

Ah, I wasn't sure with the taking 20 bit, but I did originally think craft(alchemy) worked for poisons too ... I guess not. Do natural 20's count on skill rolls tho?
If i recall, Craft (Poison) can be replicated with craft Alchemy at a -4 penalty.

The interesting thing is that once you have the water table the rest is simply multiplying the table by the specific gravity value of the material in question.

I think the majority of the rest of the things added to the guide will be various materials and discussions of in game effects as well as craft Dc's.

For example Fulminating Gold is a alchemical product, but how much damage per ounce, what craft dc should we use, and how much does it normally cost to make.

One option is to examine the alchemical substances that explode then
Thawing Ice: One cubic foot of ice can be converted to water for every 10 points of fi re damage dealt to it.

Using frostburn rules we could get a calorie value per point of fire damage then convert the energy release of a chemical reaction into damage.

Lot of effort that i'll wait to do.
Show

1ft^3=28316cm^3
28316cm^3=25965g
25965g=8672567J
86725667J=2072743 thermochemical calories


207274 thermochemical calories per point of fire damage, given the below assumptions. Or 207 nutritional calories. Double-check it if you want. This is one spectacular guide, Lokiyn. I'd appreciate Craft DC's most of all.

Assumptions
Show
Most importantly, the ice starts at 0 degrees Celsius
1ft^3=28316cm^3
Density is 1g=.917cm^3
Heat of Fusion 1g=334J
1J=.239C

I truncated at the decimal place after each conversion
This is fantastic, thanks for working all that out and posting it.

Someone should add it to a sticky under the POWERS list or something on the master index.
It will be very handy for in game use.
Lets double check things (just for accuracy)

Ok

So Cubic Foot of Water =62 pounds

Taking that we multiply by the Specific gravity of Ice (.917)

Cubic Foot of Ice = ~56.85 Pounds / 2.2

Divide By 2.2 to convert pounds to Kilograms

Cubic Foot of Ice = ~25.84 Kilograms or ~25842.72 Grams
Heat of Fusion = 335.5 Joules

So only considering phase changes we then we use 8,670,235 Joules or 8,670.24 k Joules

Take this value and divide by 10 (the amount of fire damage)

We then get 867.02 K Joules per Point of Fire damage or 207 K Calories. So we seem to at least be on the same page with the numbers.

So for comparison we take Nitroglycerin.

4 C3H5(NO3)3 -> 12 CO2 + 6 N2 + 10 H2O + O2 + 5656 kJ (1488 cal/g)

So we get 1.488 K Calories per Gram of nitro which is 6.225792 K Joules per Gram of energy The average stick of dynamite is 1 inch in diameter and 8 inches long. So a volume of 6.28 cubic inches, ¾ of which is nitroglycerin from what I can gather. So about 4.712 cubic inches. Nitro’s specific gravity lends it to ~70.06 Pounds per cubic foot, so / 1728 to get pounds per inches .040544 pounds per cubic inch so about 0.191059 Pounds or about 2.9 ounces. Let’s make it three. Pounds to grams gives us about 86.84 (87) Grams of nitro.

So the average stick of dynamite deals 540 K Joules or .62 points of fire damage……

That can’t be right.

Hmmm finding a proper value is going to be difficult

if we only use energy for one degree C per Cu Feet

56.854 Pounds Ice per Cubic Foot<br /> 25.84272727 Kilograms<br /> 25842.72727 Grams<br /> 25842.72727 Joules<br /> 25.84272727 K Joules<br /> 6.176560056 K Cal<br /> 2.584272727 K Joules per Point of Fire Damage<br /> Uh<br /> 208.956 Points of damage for a stick of dynamite....

Well anyway i thinking we are going to need to abandon the Damage points to Joules conversion as fairly unworkable.

So what i was thinking about for Dc's was something like this

[indent]
Dc Material<br /> 10 Common Base Materials<br /> 15 Uncommon Base Materials<br /> 20 Rare Base Materials/Common Extracts<br /> 25 Uncommon extracts<br /> 30 Rare Extracts/Common multisteps<br /> 35 Uncomon Multisteps<br /> 40 Rare Multisteps

[/indent]
Since its impractical to list a dc for every single material in existance we generalize

So we have 6 categories of item.
  • Common[indent]Something like pine or oak in a temporate zone, apples or other common foodstuffs[/indent]
  • uncommon[indent]Something thats not mass cultivated or grows in abundance, like many spices or woods that are not normally avalible in abundance (like fruit tree wood)[/indent]
  • Rare[indent]things like Cocoa beans, or ebony wood, or such[/indent]
  • Base[indent]Something that is naturally occuring and simply has to be grasped, woods, plants, foodstuffs and such[/indent]
  • Extracts[indent]Things that are extracted from base plants, Surgars, resins, honey, and such[/indent]
  • Multisteps[indent] Complicated substances that require significant alchemical equipment to produce as well as other ancilary chemicals and steps to produce the end product, while the creation powers allow you to produce the end result one still needs the knowledge to produce it before the power can work[/indent]


So we have a "creation check" and a "knowledge check"

The creation check would only apply to using the power to create something
The knowledge check is 5 less than the creation check and represents if the character knows about the substance. Not everyone knows about say, chocolate, and of those that do few would know all the steps to refine it from the bean.

So for example we take the arms and equipment guide

    • Borage 0.02<br />
    • Caraway 0.02<br />
    • Chives 0.02<br />
    • Anise 0.03<br />
    • Bergamot 0.03<br />
    • Costmary 0.03<br />
    • Cumin 0.03<br />
    • Dillweed 0.03<br />
    • Mint 0.03<br />
    • Horehound 0.04<br />
    • Parsley 0.04<br />
    • Angelica 0.05<br />
    • Hyssop 0.05<br />
    • Marjoram 0.05<br />
    • Mustard seed 0.05<br />
    • Clary 0.08<br />
    • Basil 0.1<br />
    • Coriander 0.1<br />
    • Fennel seed 0.1<br />
    • Garlic 0.1<br />
    • Horseradish 0.1<br />
    • Lovage 0.1<br />
    • Sage 0.1<br />
    • Salt 0.1.<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> <br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .

    • Sweet cicely 0.1<br />
    • Thyme 0.1<br />
    • Woodruff 0.1<br />
    • Woodruff 0.1<br />
    • Lemon balm 0.2<br />
    • Oregano 0.2<br />
    • Fenugreek 0.3<br />
    • Juniper 0.3<br />
    • Liquorice root 0.4<br />
    • Rosemary 0.5<br />
    • Cardamon 1<br />
    • Cinnamon 1<br />
    • Tarragon 1<br />
    • Laurel 4<br />
    • Rose hips 5<br />
    • Poppy seed 8<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> <br /> .<br /> .<br /> .

    • Ginger 10<br />
    • Cubeb 15<br />
    • Cloves 20<br />
    • Mace 25<br />
    • Turmeric 25<br />
    • Turmeric 25<br />
    • Nutmeg 30<br />
    • Pepper 30<br />
    • Saffron 65<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .



So sort by cost. Half the List is Common the next third is Uncommon and the last sixth is rare.

Since these are (mostly) plants the Dc would range from 10/15/20 and 15/20/25 for extracts
Use any race besides gnome, make up for the lack of racial bonus by someone using Aid Another on your Craft (Poisonmaking) check. Problem solved.
Use any race besides gnome, make up for the lack of racial bonus by someone using Aid Another on your Craft (Poisonmaking) check. Problem solved.

how do you assist someone in the process of drawing material from the astral plane and shaping it according to your desires?
(Minor creation doesn't draw on the astral)

Anywho can someone with better link-fu check this out for me.

I use link power, expend my focus, Chose power A and B, Power B goes off on the next round. The Target for Power B is the Same As Power A (Unless Power A has no target)

Now if i read this correctly, Even though the Target changes Range is unaffected.

If range was affected then one could say,

3pp Control Flames (torch Medium Range away) Linked to Minor Creation (something Flammable) to Snag control of a torch then Dump (CL*7.4) Gallons of something flammable or explosive onto the torch.

But although its not mentions i assume it still uses the power of (b) rather than A.

Something i saw that looked amazing was

Call Item (no target) linked to Fabricate (choose target) for some insanely fast fabrication for 8pp.

So it looks like that with

Psicrystal Affinity(gain Psicrystal) + Bonus Essentia (Gain one point of Essentia) + Psicrystal Containment (hold a second Focus) + Midnight augmentation (call item)

Use call item to call a block of wood (1 pp gets you up to 40 cubic feet, 3pp gets you up to 4000 cubic Feet) Linked to fabricate which then targets the (4.4-5.8)^3 block of wood and its instantly shaped into the desired form

(firewood 1cp per 20lb, shrugs closest i could find)

Call item wood amount
C(i) Gp(v) Units Pounds Volume dimension<br /> 1 1 100 2000 40 3.419951893<br /> 3 100 10000 200000 4000 15.87401052<br /> 5 1000 100000 2000000 40000 34.19951893

Fabricate Effects
CL Vol Dimensions<br /> 9 90 4.481404747<br /> 10 100 4.641588834<br /> 11 110 4.791419857<br /> 12 120 4.932424149<br /> 13 130 5.065797019<br /> 14 140 5.192494102<br /> 15 150 5.313292846<br /> 16 160 5.428835233<br /> 17 170 5.539658257<br /> 18 180 5.646216173<br /> 19 190 5.748897079<br /> 20 200 5.848035476

So in game this might look like a psion Uses Call item to create a Wall of wood 15 feet by 10 feet tall by about 2.16 inches thick (27 cubic feet), this stops enemy x temporrarily. The next round the fabricate kicks in and then encases something in a 10 foot diameter sphere

You spend 1pp+7pp= 8pp total and one Foci, and Link power and the sphere persists for 10 min per level or until you stop gripping it for more than one round.

The biggest complaint with this would be about the item calling. If thats two much of an issue one could simply build said pannel before hand so that a representative example of the item exists, then you delare, i want a handled wood wall.

So for all you FMA fans here you go. for the Fanatics, go away.
Self note
Black Lotus Extract at low, low level

I assume you'd still need to make the neccessary craft check, so at the lower levels it would still be difficult to obtain.
how do you assist someone in the process of drawing material from the astral plane and shaping it according to your desires?

By reciting the recipe (as best you remember) for the poison. What with concentrating on shaping ectoplasm into the right materials, it's easy to forget exactly how the poison is made and accidentaly create an entirely inert substance. So get a friend to help you.

"It's three parts sodium carbinate, right?"
"I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be calcium carbinate."
"Oh, right. Thanks."
The Expanded Psionics Group You don't have to be psychic to join, but it helps!
Which now screams we need to develop a type of Schema.

Craft Geode [ITEM CREATION]
[INDENT]You can create a unique Geode[/INDENT]
Prerequisite:[INDENT]Access to any (Creation) power or spell. Benefit: You can create a Geode of a given material. Etching a minor Geode takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. The base price of a creation Geode is is caster level
Assuming that your average strand of adventuring rope is 1 inch in diameter, you would be able to create 183.3 ft/CL of rope with Minor Creation. If you wanted some 1/2 inch diameter cord, you could create 733.3 ft/CL of it.

If you wanted to make a hemisphere with a 1-inch thick shell, just look at Lokiyn's Sphere Diameter chart. Your hemisphere will have dimensions of your CL + 1 according to the chart. For example, a hemisphere with CL 1 will have a radius of 17 inches and an open volume of 2.05 cubic feet, or 44.03 gallons. You can use the hemisphere as a bowl to carry liquids that you create out of Minor Creation. Not too shabby.
Thanks for reminding me of that.

Added a Spheres/Hemispheres By Internal Volume Chart


Ok, So here is what i need from everyone.

What Common Geometric Shapes (Other than Those Listed) Does everyone want or need with this in terms of shapes.

Also what does everyone want Information wise on Minor/Major creation and the Fabricate powers.

Also what does everyone think about the rough Dc table above

Cubes, Spheres, Hemisphers, Cylinders, Tubes, ...???

For example

Link power allows for instantaneous shaping of material

(A Powers manifesting time is the time a power need to to come into effect. Link power states that The power is manifested on your next turn. This basically means that the link power (due to its vague wording) allows the manifesting time to drop to zero)

So if we start at manifester level 8 (the minimum level necessary to pull off a linked fabricate) one can so something like summon a wooden block (a la call item up to the necessary size for manifester level) then the next round create a conical spike the listed length, Instantly (as far as my understanding of link power goes.) Then we get the following Table
CL Length of Spike<br /> 8 25.46479089<br /> 9 28.64788976<br /> 10 31.83098862<br /> 11 35.01408748<br /> 12 38.19718634<br /> 13 41.3802852<br /> 14 44.56338407<br /> 15 47.74648293<br /> 16 50.92958179<br /> 17 54.11268065<br /> 18 57.29577951<br /> 19 60.47887837<br /> 20 63.66197724

Some really nice points.

Minor creation is useful but you seem to be forgetting it lasts one hour per level and the Effect description: Unattended, nonmagical object of nonliving plant matter up to 1 cubic foot a level.

Some of your descriptions seem to be exceding the Fabricate limitations.

You create "a" nonmagical, unattended object of nonliving, vegetable matter, linen clothes, a hemp rope, a wooden ladder, and so forth. (Linen clothes the only plural description).

Attempting to use any created object as a material component in a spell causes the spell to Fail. So you can't use Minor Creation to Make Raw Materials for Fabricate or Major Creation because that is the component material. Read the last part of the spell description for Minor Creation and Fabricate in both books.

Even crafting magical items has a daily limitation of 1,000 GP a day. A good common sense guideline is limiting the effects to a day or a week's worth of one man's work. A simple ladder to climb an obstacle, a simple bridge to cross a gully, a simple raft or boat to cross a river or lake. Linen clothes not a Noble's Outfit.

Your PC starts selling bad alchemical substances to NPCs it should have a Bad Effect on the PCs in the campaign world.... Reputation (Untrustworth Thieves so much fewer patrons and jobs, Enemies (Relatives, Hirelings, Public Officials, Minor and Greater Lords, Law Enforcement (Public and Private) you are messing up economies).
Even crafting magical items has a daily limitation of 1,000 GP a day.

Right, and the GP limit doesn't apply to minor creation at all.

Weekly Optimization Series

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

3.5: Definitive Shopping List (gear guide PDF)

 

5e Eberron homebrew rules (PDF) (Artificer, Warforged, Changeling, Kalashtar, Shifter, Dragonmarks) | Discussion thread

i'm trying to see what you are declaring as a problem.

Minor creation doesn't last; Doesn't matter items don't need to last long, just long enough.

Fabricate, No its more complicated and simpler than that
You convert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material. Thus, you can fabricate a wooden bridge from a clump of tress, a rope from a patch of hemp, clothes from flax or wool, and so forth. Creatures or magic items cannot be created or transmuted by the fabricate spell.

Product, Products, such as ladders, and rope can be made of multiple parts as long as the whole is in the cubic foot limit. Also psionics has Greater Fabricate.

Fabricate (b):

Sigh

Fabricate, Psionic
Metacreativity (Creation)
Level: Shaper 4
Display: Material
Manifesting Time: See spell text
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: Up to 10 cu. ft./level; see
spell text
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: No
Power Points: 7
As fabricate (page 229 of the Player’s Handbook), except as noted here.

Notice something missing?

Psionics hasn't material Components, Matter is a target not a component, of the psionic version.

when did i ever advocate producing alchemical compounds? I didn't, what i said was that for the purpose of this thread, knowledge of chemistry is limited to the knowledge of alchemists. They don't know what sulphuric acid is, atoms and chemical bonds are beyond them, they do know however about Oil of Vitriol, to us its sulphuric acid, to them they got it by distilling Green Vitrol, an extract of iron vitriol and brimstone. and if they didn't explode they got a nasty smelling liquid that could etch metal or maybe explode.

Your not making alchemist fire, your making alchemical substances, like paint.

as for npc's i direct you towards this Link

As for Gp limit, i can't even guess as to where you are getting that.
Here are some useful minor creations that don't require alchemy or poisonmaking:

Adhesive: Resin
Clear solid: Amber. It's not quite as good as glass, but it gets the job done.
Disguise bonus: Cameleoweave clothing
Flammable substance: Rosin
Hindering substance: Molassas
Itching powder: Rose hips
Lubricant: Rapeseed oil
Painkiller: Poppy extract
Rope: Hemp
Rubber: Latex
Sleep drug: Henbane
Waterproofing: Birch or Spruce
Weapons and armor: Bronzewood

Here's a quesion for you, Lokiyn: How many yards of linen cloth would fit in a cubic foot?
Probably should have quoted separate posts.

Post #17 You can not "Fabricate" items from "Minor Creation" material attempts would automatically fail as per description regarding failure of spells (Psionic Power) for attempting it.

The psionic minor creation material would be the fabricate "spell component" material in the fabricate spell and so the psionic power would fail No wooden walls from Minor Creation Material you would have to use existing natural wood.

Second IMO difficulty would probably be harder than trying to create a "Wall of Stone" around opponents since that spell doesn't require a skill check to make the wall and as per page 300 of PHB opponents would be entitled to a Reflex save to avoid. Depending on the size unsupported 1" wooden walls could probably be easily breached by most fighters.

Personally I prefer limiting it to one week's worth of work for a single individual craft check working 8 hours for a day or for a week. IMO that is pretty reasonable for something taking less than a minute.

Regardless of how many cubic feet of material left particularly Druidic Infusions to hold a spell and Druids as Alchemists using Herbalism in Masters of the Wild. Things like Vegative Alchemist's Fire at 20 GP a Flask, Antitoxin at 50 GP a flask are open to abuse by interpretation. All the examples were simple items. Linen clothes, Wooden Bridges).

Even crossing a simple bridge you are not going to want much less than 2" by 4" boards so every cubic foot gives you 4" Deep, 1 " Wide, 4' Long piece of bridge because you will need load bearing weight and supports will cut down from material to span at 20' or less going longer would require support (arching and buttressing as per Wall of Stone spell to bear the weight of travellers crossing it without breaking as the midpoint would be the weakest spot).

7 - 12" wide is a DC10 Balance check, 2-6" is a DC 15 Balance Check.
i'm trying to see what you are declaring as a problem.

Minor creation doesn't last; Doesn't matter items don't need to last long, just long enough.

Fabricate, No its more complicated and simpler than that

Product, Products, such as ladders, and rope can be made of multiple parts as long as the whole is in the cubic foot limit. Also psionics has Greater Fabricate.

I disagree. In Psionic Fabricate the display is what you are creating from the Raw "Material" but which cannot be from Minor Creation in Post #17

In the Fabricate Spell the Raw Material is the spell component.

As per description in psionic and magical minor creation the Spell (and thus the psionic power Fabricate) Fails when using material created by minor creation (Magical or Psionic).

You can't use Minor Creation to create lumber so you can use Fabricate to make it into something else which is what it looked like one of the recent posts was alluding to #17 and the Call Item (I'm aware of call weaponry or armor but not Item and probably shouldn't have assumed you meant Minor Creation).

Sure you could make a wooden wall with Minor Creation a skill check but I would think it would be harder than trying to trap some one with a Wall of Stone (No Skill Check but target or targets still receive a Reflex Save)
Here are some useful minor creations that don't require alchemy or poisonmaking:

Adhesive: Resin
Clear solid: Amber. It's not quite as good as glass, but it gets the job done.
Disguise bonus: Cameleoweave clothing
Flammable substance: Rosin
Hindering substance: Molassas
Itching powder: Rose hips
Lubricant: Rapeseed oil
Painkiller: Poppy extract
Rope: Hemp
Rubber: Latex
Sleep drug: Henbane
Waterproofing: Birch or Spruce
Weapons and armor: Bronzewood

Here's a quesion for you, Lokiyn: How many yards of linen cloth would fit in a cubic foot?

I can see some minor uses but this is a temporary power mostly in a pinch.

No clothes or weapons or rope make some. IMO it would be nice for making a small wooden shelter possibly surround by a small wall.

How often do they need to make glass/amber (I could be mistaken but it sounds like jars for cheap flammable liquids for attacking on the fly) or waterproofing.

Why aren't the PCs wearing camo clothing? It should have better modifiers than the linen clothes you can make on the fly. Same for weapons and armor except in a pinch they should have better.

How much is molasses going to really hinder movement? Just have a sorcerer or wizard take grease or sticky or cast web or shadow conjuration.

Minor creation has a range of 0' and it sounds like you are trying to be creative with attacks.

So how much extra damage does your PC take when the NPCs Fireball him after creating Rosin or Gust of Winding the PCs after they make itching powder? IMO making jars fillled with itching powder or flammables would be separate power uses, three if they have rubber seals.
Lets double check things (just for accuracy)

Ok

So Cubic Foot of Water =62 pounds

Taking that we multiply by the Specific gravity of Ice (.917)

Cubic Foot of Ice = ~56.85 Pounds / 2.2

Divide By 2.2 to convert pounds to Kilograms

Cubic Foot of Ice = ~25.84 Kilograms or ~25842.72 Grams
Heat of Fusion = 335.5 Joules

So only considering phase changes we then we use 8,670,235 Joules or 8,670.24 k Joules

Take this value and divide by 10 (the amount of fire damage)

We then get 867.02 K Joules per Point of Fire damage or 207 K Calories. So we seem to at least be on the same page with the numbers.

So for comparison we take Nitroglycerin.

4 C3H5(NO3)3 -> 12 CO2 + 6 N2 + 10 H2O + O2 + 5656 kJ (1488 cal/g)

So we get 1.488 K Calories per Gram of nitro which is 6.225792 K Joules per Gram of energy The average stick of dynamite is 1 inch in diameter and 8 inches long. So a volume of 6.28 cubic inches, ¾ of which is nitroglycerin from what I can gather. So about 4.712 cubic inches. Nitro’s specific gravity lends it to ~70.06 Pounds per cubic foot, so / 1728 to get pounds per inches .040544 pounds per cubic inch so about 0.191059 Pounds or about 2.9 ounces. Let’s make it three. Pounds to grams gives us about 86.84 (87) Grams of nitro.

So the average stick of dynamite deals 540 K Joules or .62 points of fire damage……

That can’t be right.

Hmmm finding a proper value is going to be difficult

if we only use energy for one degree C per Cu Feet

56.854 Pounds Ice per Cubic Foot<br /> 25.84272727 Kilograms<br /> 25842.72727 Grams<br /> 25842.72727 Joules<br /> 25.84272727 K Joules<br /> 6.176560056 K Cal<br /> 2.584272727 K Joules per Point of Fire Damage<br /> Uh<br /> 208.956 Points of damage for a stick of dynamite....

Well anyway i thinking we are going to need to abandon the Damage points to Joules conversion as fairly unworkable.

So what i was thinking about for Dc's was something like this

[indent]
Dc Material<br /> 10 Common Base Materials<br /> 15 Uncommon Base Materials<br /> 20 Rare Base Materials/Common Extracts<br /> 25 Uncommon extracts<br /> 30 Rare Extracts/Common multisteps<br /> 35 Uncomon Multisteps<br /> 40 Rare Multisteps

[/indent]
Since its impractical to list a dc for every single material in existance we generalize

So we have 6 categories of item.
  • Common[indent]Something like pine or oak in a temporate zone, apples or other common foodstuffs[/indent]
  • uncommon[indent]Something thats not mass cultivated or grows in abundance, like many spices or woods that are not normally avalible in abundance (like fruit tree wood)[/indent]
  • Rare[indent]things like Cocoa beans, or ebony wood, or such[/indent]
  • Base[indent]Something that is naturally occuring and simply has to be grasped, woods, plants, foodstuffs and such[/indent]
  • Extracts[indent]Things that are extracted from base plants, Surgars, resins, honey, and such[/indent]
  • Multisteps[indent] Complicated substances that require significant alchemical equipment to produce as well as other ancilary chemicals and steps to produce the end product, while the creation powers allow you to produce the end result one still needs the knowledge to produce it before the power can work[/indent]


So we have a "creation check" and a "knowledge check"

The creation check would only apply to using the power to create something
The knowledge check is 5 less than the creation check and represents if the character knows about the substance. Not everyone knows about say, chocolate, and of those that do few would know all the steps to refine it from the bean.

So for example we take the arms and equipment guide

    • Borage 0.02<br />
    • Caraway 0.02<br />
    • Chives 0.02<br />
    • Anise 0.03<br />
    • Bergamot 0.03<br />
    • Costmary 0.03<br />
    • Cumin 0.03<br />
    • Dillweed 0.03<br />
    • Mint 0.03<br />
    • Horehound 0.04<br />
    • Parsley 0.04<br />
    • Angelica 0.05<br />
    • Hyssop 0.05<br />
    • Marjoram 0.05<br />
    • Mustard seed 0.05<br />
    • Clary 0.08<br />
    • Basil 0.1<br />
    • Coriander 0.1<br />
    • Fennel seed 0.1<br />
    • Garlic 0.1<br />
    • Horseradish 0.1<br />
    • Lovage 0.1<br />
    • Sage 0.1<br />
    • Salt 0.1.<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> <br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .

    • Sweet cicely 0.1<br />
    • Thyme 0.1<br />
    • Woodruff 0.1<br />
    • Woodruff 0.1<br />
    • Lemon balm 0.2<br />
    • Oregano 0.2<br />
    • Fenugreek 0.3<br />
    • Juniper 0.3<br />
    • Liquorice root 0.4<br />
    • Rosemary 0.5<br />
    • Cardamon 1<br />
    • Cinnamon 1<br />
    • Tarragon 1<br />
    • Laurel 4<br />
    • Rose hips 5<br />
    • Poppy seed 8<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> <br /> .<br /> .<br /> .

    • Ginger 10<br />
    • Cubeb 15<br />
    • Cloves 20<br />
    • Mace 25<br />
    • Turmeric 25<br />
    • Turmeric 25<br />
    • Nutmeg 30<br />
    • Pepper 30<br />
    • Saffron 65<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .<br /> .



So sort by cost. Half the List is Common the next third is Uncommon and the last sixth is rare.

Since these are (mostly) plants the Dc would range from 10/15/20 and 15/20/25 for extracts

Take a minute and reread the psi power and minor creation the spell descriptions again. You need a material component of the material you are creating. A bit of hemp to make rope and so forth. You are interpreting it as a Temporary Skill based power that is more powerful than Limited Wish (1,500 GP or 30 pounds of Pepper) or True Creation a Level 9 Spell losing 1 Exp per 5GP of created materials

Sure the created material is the "Material" Display but the power functions as the spell Minor Creation and you need a material component of the the material you are creating (Your Focus). There are No Skill checks for manifesting except for Making Complex Items with the material.

The power intent was not for a PC to make lots of cubic feet of cocoa beans at 50 GP a pound from a single cocoa bean and sell them to a NPC before they disappear or Sturdy, Sealed, Non leaking JARS of Vegetative based Greek Fire from an amber, rubber stopped kerosene jar so your PC wouldn't have to purchase Greek Fire by rolling a Skill check. Unfortuneately the power doesn't specifically prohibit it either just common sense reading the Limited Wish/Bend Reality and True Creation (Psionic and Magical) Spell/Power Limitations.

There is no Gunpowder in ECS maybe DC100 to discover it.
Castlemike, you aren't getting it.

minor creation, psionic, is a PSIONIC POWER. it has no material components. it requires no focus. so is psionic fabricate. no focus required, no material components required. in both cases, the finished product is not the material display. material displays can be suppressed so that they cannot be detected... unless you wish to suggest that psionic fabricate can create undetectable objects, then clearly the resulting object is *not* the material display.

and they are not trying to dig up ways to ruin the game or make the DM cry. they are just trying to make a guide to what you could possibly do with minor creation. you can help, or you can tell them all it's a bad idea, whichever you choose, but sitting there telling them that in your campaign you would screw over people for being creative and imaginative is not particularly pertinent to this discussion. they're not asking for social, economic, or other consequences to the use of minor creation... they're saying "hey, look at all the cool stuff we can do."

and in any event, imo PCs should never be arbitrarily punished for their actions. sure, if they walk down the streets shouting at the top of their lungs that they have poison for sale, their rep will take a hit. but if they conceal the fact that it's them, there would be no effect... this isn't a video game where action X gets you reputation - 1 no matter if anyone was there to see it or not... if people have no way of finding out (and to people capable of making the DC 35 check, it's probably not too hard to disguise themselves in some way or another), then there is no reputation penalty.
POWERS DO NOT REQUIRE MATERIAL COMPONENTS

Secondly, read the books

psionic powers are not fancy spells, they are separate and have thier own rules and governings.

Display
When a power is manifested, a display may accompany the primary effect.

Simple rules here, the material is not the display the material is the effect.

You say look at the power?

Please do
Minor Creation, Psionic
Metacreativity (Creation)
Level: Shaper 1
Display: Material
Manifesting Time: 1 minute
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: Unattended, nonpsionic, nonmagical object of nonliving plant matter, up to 1 cu. ft./level
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: No
Power Points: 1[INDENT]As the minor creation spell, except as noted here. [/INDENT]

Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: Unattended, nonmagical object of nonliving plant matter, up to 1 cu. ft./level
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Notice the Difference, Material components do not exist in the psionic paradigm. Powers do not use arcane dances and babbleing, they operate by pure will alone.

Thats 99% of your arguement shattered on the cold hard facts of reality.

and please don't quote enormous amounts of text when your only looking at a line or so.

Also in your examples (vegetable based greek fire) you underestimate the complexity of some materials, thats the purpose of this thread,
Can i make greeks fire? No you can't. however there are some materials made from plants that are flammable and stick and might work in a pinch but aren't necessarily as good as the item "Alchemist Fire"
No clothes or weapons or rope make some.

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that you cannot make clothing, weapons, or rope from Minor Creation? In that case, I would have to disagree. Clothing, weapons, and rope could be considered complex items, and thus could be created during the casting of Minor Creation with a successful skill check.
How often do they need to make glass/amber (I could be mistaken but it sounds like jars for cheap flammable liquids for attacking on the fly) or waterproofing.

An event where my party needed waterproofing once came up. You simply never know when you will need something. It is impossible to make glass with Minor Creation as it is made mostly from sand. Amber is similar to glass in that it is transparent, a good insulator, and rather fragile. Amber jars certainly could be useful.
Why aren't the PCs wearing camo clothing? It should have better modifiers than the linen clothes you can make on the fly. Same for weapons and armor except in a pinch they should have better.

Indeed, you could create a Forester's Cloak (from A&E) with Minor Creation to use with hide checks. Cameleoweave clothing provides a bonus to disguise checks, not hide checks, and can be found in ECS. Bronzewood is superior to normal steel and can be used to make breastplates, banded mail, splint mail, half-plate, and full-plate. Bronzewood can also be used to make metal weapons.
How much is molasses going to really hinder movement? Just have a sorcerer or wizard take grease or sticky or cast web or shadow conjuration.

It's up to your DM. Many good DMs reward creativity and humor.
Minor creation has a range of 0' and it sounds like you are trying to be creative with attacks.

Bingo. I am trying to be creative. Minor Creation is an extremely versatile power and can be used in nearly any situation. If your party somehow lost all their equipment, create some bronzewood weapons and armor until your party can retrieve their original equipment. Since Minor Creation has a casting time of 1 minute and a range of 0, its better used out of combat to prepare for whatever you might face, or to create the right tool for the job.
So how much extra damage does your PC take when the NPCs Fireball him after creating Rosin or Gust of Winding the PCs after they make itching powder? IMO making jars fillled with itching powder or flammables would be separate power uses, three if they have rubber seals.

Again, it's up to your DM. Making jars filled with another substance, of course, requires more than one casting, and I never said otherwise. Try to have fun with this power.

Here's a challenge:

You, along with a collection of 100 NPC warriors, must defend a small farm against a seige until such time as reinforcements can arrive. The warriors know how to fight, but have no equipment of their own at all, but you have been given a Rod of Minor Creation with a CL 10. Per casting, that's 10 cubic feet of substance that lasts 10 hours. The enemies are a band of 100 orcs as found in the MM. You have 8 hours to prepare before the attack.

Sounds like fun.
Here's a challenge:

You, along with a collection of 100 NPC warriors, must defend a small farm against a seige until such time as reinforcements can arrive. The warriors know how to fight, but have no equipment of their own at all, but you have been given a Rod of Minor Creation with a CL 10. Per casting, that's 10 cubic feet of substance that lasts 10 hours. The enemies are a band of 100 orcs as found in the MM. You have 8 hours to prepare before the attack.

Sounds like fun.

i've done this, I and a warlock (both level 7ish) in three days eliminated approximately 75,000 members of an army with guerilla tactics.

Basically we where hire to help defend a city from a 100k man army, 4 members of the party decided to wander off and examine the town, i and the warlock looked at each other and hightailed with remounts to get the 60 miles to the army and start delaying the army.

Fire solves many many problems

Tactics

Invisible warlock slips minor creationed poisons into food supplies and water.

Morydan Tea proved to be fatal as cubic feet of powder was seeped in water then flash boiled (flat pans over oil to produce clouds of poisonous smoke)

Oil soaked fields, Grass Fires Ariel Raids with Contact Poisons, It was a slaughter, the only thing that kept us from finishing them off was the dm ruled that after being awake for 60 hours we were about to pass out even with drinking coffee ectract (grind Boil and filter, Boil off water till you get a sort of super expresso)

*edit Aerial raids, mermaids were not directly harmed in this game.
No clothes or weapons or rope make some.

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say here.

He's saying "[if you have] no clothes or weapons or rope [then] make some."
The Expanded Psionics Group You don't have to be psychic to join, but it helps!
Wouldn't a masterwork tool grant a +2 circumstance bonus to your Craft check? Assuming you can form the material around normal tools that ordinary craftsmen may slave away at, and that any information regarding a substance is useful, here're some suggestions for tools. The schema/geode idea is an appropriate idea for complex items or truly secret recipes if they are only activated by a certain command word. I can envision rival families of shaper alchemists or shaper chefs hunting for the other's crystal-inscribed secrets. Adventure hook?

Masterwork Tools
-Botanist's Fieldguide
-Apothecary's Tome
-Alchemist's Lab
-Smithy's Schematics
-Smithy's Anvil
-Bowyer's Vise
-Carpenter's Rule
-Trapsmith's Gearlog
-Spicer's Samplebook
-Farmer's Almanac
-Molds and Crucibles for Goldsmiths, Silversmiths, Cast Iron Workers, Bellmakers, etc.
-Baker's Implements (Cups, Sifters, etc.)
-Perfumist's Samplebook
-Brewer's/Baker's/Cook's Secret Recipe
-Distillation Coop
-Inventor's Sketchbook
-Engineer's Calculus
-Carpenter's Bob
-Medical Toxicology Manual
Both Psionic Minor Creation and Fabricate refer to spells for the guidelines on how they work.

In the Minor creation spell description it states you need a small sample of the material you are creating, a thread of hemp for your rope example.

(It also states that created material cannot be used in another spell or it will Fail. (You guys are ignoring this by creating raw material to be used with psionic fabricate to make other items) Magic and Psionics are supposed to be basically interchangeable in most worlds look at the text for Magic Mantle in Complete Psionic)

That is why you do not need to make Alchemy or Herbalism or Knowledge Nature Skill Checks. PCs only need Craft checks for Complex Items. Your PC is duplicating existing material. He doesn't need to know what it is made of. He just needs a small sample to duplicate it temporarily with ectoplasm.

Lastly there is no example of creating a pricey valuable item just things like linen, rope Not Flammable Oils or other Exotic Substances which is how you are making the two powers better than Limited Wish or True Creation.


Fabricate You convert material of one sort intop a product that is of the same material. A wooden bridge from trees, a rope from a patch of hemp. Creatures or magic items cannot be created. The quality of the items is commensurate with the quality of the material used.

Material The original material which costs the same amount as the raw materials to craft the item to be created. (No Freebies Here to prevent abuse like this board)

If you guys are going to abuse the power descriptions at least penalize your PC 1 EXP per GP of value.

The intent of the power is not so you can get creative and excede the power of a Limited Wish or True Creation.

Sure then it is probably the greatest first level power.
Both Psionic Minor Creation and Fabricate refer to spells for the guidelines on how they work.

In the Minor creation spell description it states you need a small sample of the material you are creating, a thread of hemp for your rope example.

(It also states that created material cannot be used in another spell or it will Fail. (You guys are ignoring this by creating raw material to be used with psionic fabricate to make other items) Magic and Psionics are supposed to be basically interchangeable in most worlds look at the text for Magic Mantle in Complete Psionic)

Except NO PSIONIC POWER EVER INVOLVES A COMPONENT. I do not need a leather thong to manifest Psionic Freedom of Movement.

Do note that this doesn't limit Fabricate either, since while the raw materials are the component of the spell, they're the *target* in the power.
That is why you do not need to make Alchemy or Herbalism or Knowledge Nature Skill Checks. PCs only need Craft checks for Complex Items. Your PC is duplicating existing material. He doesn't need to know what it is made of. He just needs a small sample to duplicate it temporarily with ectoplasm.

No, he doesn't. Powers have no components. The power reaches into the astral and condenses plant matter from it.
Lastly there is no example of creating a pricey valuable item just things like linen, rope Not Flammable Oils or other Exotic Substances which is how you are making the two powers better than Limited Wish or True Creation.

Except they're not permanent and we aren't selling them. Likewise, it's limited in what it can do.
Fabricate You convert material of one sort intop a product that is of the same material. A wooden bridge from trees, a rope from a patch of hemp. Creatures or magic items cannot be created. The quality of the items is commensurate with the quality of the material used.

Material The original material which costs the same amount as the raw materials to craft the item to be created. (No Freebies Here to prevent abuse like this board)

Do note that it's the TARGET in the power, man. If you can understand any form of polymorph, why can't you understand this?
If you guys are going to abuse the power descriptions at least penalize your PC 1 EXP per GP of value.

Oh, sure, houserule it while we're at it.
The intent of the power is not so you can get creative and excede the power of a Limited Wish or True Creation.

1) You're not a designer.
2) We aren't using it to do ANY OF THAT. Get that through your skull. Clever use of a low-level power isn't the same as using a high-level power.
Sure then it is probably the greatest first level power.

It's up there. If for no other reason than the magic version is significantly higher level.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

3.5: Definitive Shopping List (gear guide PDF)

 

5e Eberron homebrew rules (PDF) (Artificer, Warforged, Changeling, Kalashtar, Shifter, Dragonmarks) | Discussion thread

Minor Creation Minor Creation, Psionic <br /> <br /> Conjuration (Creation) --VS-- Metacreativity (Creation) <br /> <br /> [b]Level:[/b] Sor/Wiz 4 --VS-- [b]Level:[/b] Shaper 1<br /> <br /> [b][u][i][color=Red][b]Components:[/b] V, S, M --VS-- [b]Display:[/b] Material[/color][/i][/u][/b]<br /> <br /> [b]Casting Time:[/b] 1 minute --VS-- [b]Manifesting Time:[/b] 1 minute<br /> <br /> [b]Range:[/b] 0 ft. --VS-- [b]Range:[/b] 0 ft.<br /> <br /> [b]Effect:[/b] Unattended, nonmagical --VS-- [b]Effect:[/b] Unattended, nonpsionic,<br /> object of nonliving nonmagical object of nonliving<br /> plant matter, up to plant matter, up to <br /> 1 cu. ft./level 1 cu. ft./level <br /> <br /> [b]Duration:[/b] 1 hr/level (D) --VS-- [b]Duration:[/b] 1 hour/level (D)<br /> <br /> [b]Saving Throw:[/b] None --VS-- [b]Saving Throw:[/b] None<br /> <br /> [b]SR:[/b] No --VS-- [b]Power Resistance:[/b] No<br /> <br /> [b]Power Points:[/b] 1

Display
When a power is manifested, a display may accompany the primary effect. This secondary effect may be auditory, material, mental, olfactory, or visual. No power’s display is significant enough to create consequences for the psionic creatures, allies, or opponents during combat. The secondary effect for a power occurs only if the power’s description indicates it. If multiple powers with similar displays are in effect simultaneously, the displays do not necessary become more intense. Instead, the overall display remains much the same, though with minute spikes in intensity. A Psicraft check (DC 10 + 1 per additional power in use) reveals the exact number of simultaneous powers in play.

There is no way i can make it any clearer

p.s.

Show
[indent]
Dc Material<br /> 10 Common Base Materials<br /> 15 Uncommon Base Materials<br /> 20 Rare Base Materials/Common Extracts<br /> 25 Uncommon extracts<br /> 30 Rare Extracts/Common multisteps<br /> 35 Uncomon Multisteps<br /> 40 Rare Multisteps

[/indent]
Since its impractical to list a dc for every single material in existance we generalize

So we have 6 categories of item.
  • Common[indent]Something like pine or oak in a temporate zone, apples or other common foodstuffs[/indent]
  • uncommon[indent]Something thats not mass cultivated or grows in abundance, like many spices or woods that are not normally avalible in abundance (like fruit tree wood)[/indent]
  • Rare[indent]things like Cocoa beans, or ebony wood, or such[/indent]
  • Base[indent]Something that is naturally occuring and simply has to be grasped, woods, plants, foodstuffs and such[/indent]
  • Extracts[indent]Things that are extracted from base plants, Surgars, resins, honey, and such[/indent]
  • Multisteps[indent] Complicated substances that require significant alchemical equipment to produce as well as other ancilary chemicals and steps to produce the end product, while the creation powers allow you to produce the end result one still needs the knowledge to produce it before the power can work[/indent]


So we have a "creation check" and a "knowledge check"

The creation check would only apply to using the power to create something
The knowledge check is 5 less than the creation check and represents if the character knows about the substance. Not everyone knows about say, chocolate, and of those that do few would know all the steps to refine it from the bean.


This material was an attempt to formalize some sort of rough guidelines for minor creation for dm's. While a player does not need to make a craft check for basic materials like wood or foods, the player must make a craft check for complex items. The intent of the chart above is to produce a reasonable chart for a dm to use (as a houserule of course) to gauge the difficulty of an item that has neither craft check nor knowledge check. So taking the guidelines in the phb as a start
Check: Answering a question within your field of study has a DC of 10 (for really easy questions), 15 (for basic questions), or 20 to 30 (for really tough questions).

We start with 10 as a base for most plants and then raise the dc by 5 for each step of rarity. Not everyone knows about Luhix weed or the rarer woods (like mahogany).

Then we add in a extra to dc based on the complexity of the alchemical reactions needed to represent the increasing levels of skill need to extract more purified compounds using alchemical processes. +10 for Single step extractions and +20 for complex multistep reactions often involving multiple reagents.

Then we use that same result as a rough meterstick for craft checks for complex chemical substances. Its not reasonable to need a craft check for a lantern and not a craft check for asprin.

For example Willow is a common tree so everyone should know it (unless its not native to the area) Dc 10

Its inner bark is an extract of the tree so Dc 15 to know and craft just the bark (or less depending on if the dm considers inner bark to be unique enough to justify complex item checks)

The active extract Salacin is a 25 owing to its complex multilayerd production process and Asprin would be worth an ad hoc +5 for 30 since its an even more complicated process to convert Salacin into a product that doesn't cause intestinal complications. Or as the dm sets it.

Its probably worth noting that willow bark is probably already included in healers kits and doesn't need an individual write up. however large doses of asprin are poisones, and concentrated non toxic doses might be worth noting as giving a slight bonus (+2) to resist inflamitory diseases, such as Cackle Fever Demon Fever, Filth Fever, Mindfire, Red Ache. However should exacerbate (-2) diseases that affect the digestive tract (when used as willow bark or Salacin)
Minor Creation Minor Creation, Psionic <br /> <br /> Conjuration (Creation) --VS-- Metacreativity (Creation) <br /> <br /> [b]Level:[/b] Sor/Wiz 4 --VS-- [b]Level:[/b] Shaper 1<br /> <br /> [b][u][i][color=Red][b]Components:[/b] V, S, M --VS-- [b]Display:[/b] Material[/color][/i][/u][/b]<br /> <br /> [b]Casting Time:[/b] 1 minute --VS-- [b]Manifesting Time:[/b] 1 minute<br /> <br /> [b]Range:[/b] 0 ft. --VS-- [b]Range:[/b] 0 ft.<br /> <br /> [b]Effect:[/b] Unattended, nonmagical --VS-- [b]Effect:[/b] Unattended, nonpsionic,<br /> object of nonliving nonmagical object of nonliving<br /> plant matter, up to plant matter, up to <br /> 1 cu. ft./level 1 cu. ft./level <br /> <br /> [b]Duration:[/b] 1 hr/level (D) --VS-- [b]Duration:[/b] 1 hour/level (D)<br /> <br /> [b]Saving Throw:[/b] None --VS-- [b]Saving Throw:[/b] None<br /> <br /> [b]SR:[/b] No --VS-- [b]Power Resistance:[/b] No<br /> <br /> [b]Power Points:[/b] 1

There is no way i can make it any clearer

Let me make it clearer. The three of you are being very selective in how you interpret how Psionic Minor Creation and Psionic Fabricate work.

You forgot to include and apparently do not bother to read further for Psionic Minor Creation (PSI):

As minor creation (page 233 of the Player's Handbook), except as noted here. Sure there will be a Material Display but simply reading the Magical Minor Spell description it indicates you need some of the material you are creating (an original source your power is copying) and that material can not be used as a spell component.

(An excellent example is Fabricate which uses raw materials as the spell component both Minor Creation and Fabricate were written with specific limitations you guys choose to ignore).

The basic premise is magic and psionics are interchangeable. See the text description under Magic for a Divine Mind.

In the end it's your game and if you want to abuse the power definitions hey have fun. It would be interesting to see if you guys could convince an experienced DM that the powers works the way you say it does in tournament play though. I'll stop posting here.
In the end it's your game and if you want to abuse the power definitions hey have fun. It would be interesting to see if you guys could convince an experienced DM that the powers works the way you say it does in tournament play though. I'll stop posting here.

So basically, you have decided to cut and run, calling on the mythical powers of "experienced dm's". I'm an experienced dm, and Tempest i know has stated that he dm's as well (although if i recall prefers to play).

the psion Ialdabode merely needs to concentrate to manifest his inborn powers, drawing on his abilities by tapping a reservoir of mental strength. He has no need for messy material components, verbal cues, or awkward gestures. With the mental allocation of a few power points, he can draw fi re from thin air, move a boulder without touching it, catch a glimpse of the future, and communicate with others who are miles away.

Psi-Like Abilities (Ps): The manifestation of powers by a psionic character is considered a psi-like ability, as is the manifestation of powers by creatures without a psionic class (creatures with the psionic subtype, also simply called psionic creatures). Usually, a psionic creature’s psi-like ability works just like the power of that name. A few psi-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described.
Psi-like abilities have no verbal, somatic, or material components, nor do they require a focus or have an XP cost (even if the equivalent power has an XP cost). The user activates them mentally. Armor never affects a psi-like ability’s use. A psi-like ability has a manifesting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability description. In all other ways, a psi-like ability functions just like a power. However, a psionic creature does not have to pay a psi-like ability’s power point cost

BEHIND THE CURTAIN: POWER XP COSTS
Some powers have experience point requirements although an equivalent spell might not. Powerful spells are often balanced by costly material component requirements. For powerful psionic powers, experience points are the balancing factor, under the assumption that 1 XP is roughly equivalent to 5 gp.

Ah but you say, surely your quote is in error, for is powers are psi like abilities then they shouldn't have to pay the exp costs.

Thats true except, as compared to spells xp isn't a component cost. Its an extra cost tacked on to the pp expenditure.

XP Cost (XP): On the same line that the power point cost of a power is indicated, the power’s experience point cost, if any, is noted. Particularly powerful effects (such as bend reality and true creation) entail an experience point cost to you. No spell or power can restore XP lost in this manner. You cannot spend so much XP that you lose a level, so you cannot manifest a power with an XP cost unless you have enough XP to spare. However, you can, on gaining enough XP to attain a new level, use those XP for manifesting a power rather than keeping them and advancing a level. The XP are expended when you manifest the power, whether or not the manifestation succeeds

True psi like abilties on the other hand never pay power points, and thus never need to spend xp.

Look, you were 13 when TSR published Dungeons and Dragons, And assuming you've been playing since 8th grade in junior high that means that you've been playing for 32 years. Now is it that hard to accept that in this instance you are wrong and possible using a shallow surface level understanding to base your judgements off of.

As for transparency you clearly don't understand the concept

The standard psionics system treats psionic energy and magic as mutually and equally vulnerable to a dispel magic spell or a dispel psionics power. Spell resistance protects against powers just as it protects against spells, while power resistance protects against spells as it does against powers. For example, a dragon with spell resistance 18 also has power resistance 18 against any power. Likewise, spells that protect against mind-affecting effects work against mind-affecting powers and vice versa.

For a more detailed explaination see
Psionics–Magic Transparency: Though not explicitly called out in the spell descriptions in the Player’s Handbook or the magic item descriptions in the Dungeon Master’s Guide, spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items that could potentially affect psionics do affect psionics (unless the DM uses the Psionics Is Different option described later in this chapter).
When the rule about psionics–magic transparency is in effect, it has the following ramifications.
Spell resistance is effective against powers, using the same mechanics. Likewise, power resistance is effective against spells, using the same mechanics as spell resistance. If a creature has one kind of resistance, it is assumed to have the other. (The effects have similar ends despite having been brought about by different means.) All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.
The spell detect magic detects powers, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Psicraft check is necessary to identify the discipline of the psionic aura). Dead magic areas are also dead psionics areas.

That is the extent of psionics equals magic.

You are confusing Psionic effects (the rules) For Psionic Mechanics (your misunderstanding)
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